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Balance Patch Preview - WvW

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  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Skill will become a bigger aspect of play in the new patch and it will help separate the wheat from the chaff.

    You will have to co-ordinate better to bring a swift end to a situation, having said that if you're already dying on first push you're still going to die first push because it's sheer numbers and even a 30% damage reduction across the board isn't going to save you.

    Roaming is affected too much at the moment by warclaw, longer fights = more chance of add ins which makes "roamers" perform worse especially with more warclaws chasing them while they can't escape. I doubt much will change here except small scale group fights might be more enjoyable till people get overwhelmed by numbers.

    Overall I think less random one shot by 1-2 guys in a zerg though which is good.

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I will guess bunker types with multiple heals/barriers will be everywhere and even more difficult to kill in wvw and def in pvp but we will see. Even tho players will say it's and even across the board it's not for all classes as some have a lot of access to healing and some dude smarter then me will combine that with gear/runes etc and just face tank 6 dudes forever. Even worse then what you see now but that's just my guess.

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Well I think most of these changes are delightful. Especially changing cc dmg values is really wonderful and it was direly needed. Removing stability from professions that have other defenses is also good after the cc dps nerf. I always hated one shot builds but that should not force people to play bunker ones.

    But there are some huge problematic points (for me) that I was waiting for a change:

    -Druid is still meh in wvw. Actually firebrand seems to be the king of support still. Weaker than before but still the top guy.

    -Chrono is still sad. Maybe with all the changes mesmer might become a mage duelist instead of an instakill forced profession. But still I loved chrono.

    -Mesmer portal is still worse than thief portal (roaming wise). Still no glamour trait for mesmer.

    -What about condition damages? Would they be nerfed as hard as power damages or will they rule again? It was a dark time when we had bunker condi meta. Confusion and torment should revert back to pre HoT versions but that is my personal opinion.

    -Renegade. Really bruh?

    We should wait and see the balance in the game. And I think there are (or should be) few more changes in the actual patch.

  • Kalaina.8245Kalaina.8245 Member ✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    I think this is a step in the right direction. GW2 balance has always been a world of local maxima, where balance changes have just been poking the current state of things to try and move it toward some goal, but never really taking a step back to look at the game as a whole.

    I think GW2 really benefits from a top-down approach like this, but I have two primary concerns. The first is that these nerfs seem to be done across the board based on the types of skills and traits that exist, but the reality is that these skills and traits fulfill different roles and have different levels of importance in WvW. So you're essentially nerfing things that are already underperforming; this would be fine if we had some reason to expect that these things will later be buffed, but it feels to me like this is the first step before moving back to the status quo of tipping balance toward a local maximum.

    I think you should rate every single skill in the game based on its damage, cooldowns, utility, and reliability. A skill that's hard to hit with (aka easy to dodge) can have a higher power level than one that's much more difficult to hit with. Similarly with a skill on a long cooldown. A skill with a lower cooldown, or one that's hard to avoid, should have a lower overall dps because you'll be more likely to be dealing damage with it. I don't see anything indicating that this kind of top-down analysis was done. When the ultimate metrics are damage and healing, everything should be rated according to how much dps and hps it can deliver, modified by how likely it's going to be able to actually deliver on that damage and healing.

    The second concern is this: "Condition damage reductions are a bit less math-y, but ..." I don't think there's a place for balance in GW2 that isn't mathy. There aren't a great variety of stat sets to be concerned about in WvW. You know what Viper's can do, and similarly for Trailblazer, Grieving, Celestial, Minstrel, Berserker, Marauder, etc. It should be more than possible to calculate the amount of condition damage that a skill will do, and that should be calibrated just like power coefficients are. And just like power skills, they should be rated on damage, cooldowns, utility, and reliability for a variety of possible stat combinations. Moreover, entire weapons should also be evaluated according to the combination of all their skills, and while it's not possible to make every weapon excel with every stat combination, you can at least make sure nothing overperforms (or underperforms) with stats that work best for it.

    You have a fresh perspective on what GW2 balance should be, and you need to take the time to really understand the game. The chaos theory is much less pronounced than you might think; the chaos stems from changes made just like this - without a full analysis of all the facets of what a skill or trait can do - and the resulting fallout. A controlled, math-driven take that actually includes numerical stand-ins for softer factors like reliability is necessary if we're ever going to get to a level of game balance that's healthy, rather than one that players grow used to and learn to tolerate.

  • increase in ttk
    I think the nerf to heal skills was one step too far. its hard to tell how these changes will pan out on the field and it would be better imo to hold back on this until we get some real time data.

    attribute allocation
    nope, they are making condis no longer burst but be over time like they were meant to be. problem is their cds are the same so they will be worthless in zerg fights, so nothings changed there. toughness stacking will be better then ever with the damage nerfs but people will still beat the 3k armor max drum so nothing will change there either.

    combat dynamic
    yeah classes with kite and active defense will be much stronger. teef mains rejoice.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Welp, time to move on to a different game. Fun while it lasted.

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nice thread, good effort. I blurted out my first reaction in the announcement thread. I don't have anything more to add for now. I like the summary here though.

  • Zavage.6270Zavage.6270 Member
    edited February 1, 2020

    Let me first say good job on doing and delivering what was promised to the community.

    three things I am curious about however.

    1. With the big cut back on damage output across the board, are you going to be watching classes that have a high uptime/use of the protection buff? another -33% damage on top of the current power cut might make it feel a bit much.

    2. On top of that while it seems you cut back healing to match the power cut backs, shielding/barriers don't seem to be adjusted in the same way, so classes that have high application/gain on barriers might become far too difficult to kill. Were there plans to adjust barrier scaling as well to go along with the healing?

    3. main concern, you nerfed direct damage on cc's into almost non-existence and that's fine. However damage conditions that are on cc's remain unaffected by this change. Will this not merely create a very high condi based meta because their cc skills will still apply a large amount of damage from their condition?

      For Example: Magic bullet on mesmer. It can hit up to 4 people and apply 3 stacks of confusion, stuns the first target, dazes the second and blinds the third. It already has a low damage coefficient however the amount of damage you'll take from the condition application will remain unchanged. Simply put cc's that apply damage conditions aren't losing their main damage dealt on CC's where as power based builds are losing them entirely. Do you think this will be an issue?

  • monpetit.9764monpetit.9764 Member
    edited February 1, 2020

    Some of these changes are just too harsh with no flip. 300 second cooldown on final shielding for ele/arcane is crazy, maybe give it way more blocks than three for instance. A lot of .01 values just make stuff worthless; .015 would be better maybe. Stuff should have an impact right - ironic that the opening post kind of had the idea that things wanted to have consequence and thought, but, if its not worth using in the first place for the lack of any integers it can pump out then whats the point in that kind of thinking. And some of this stuff is so flat; a power creep will be created just by the mere frequency of things you can do as opposed to what you choose.

  • This game simply has no future. The only source of money in the game is in the hands of people who launch skins like pepegasus and the only game mode that has not yet been discontinued is in the hands of a guy who doesn’t know what he’s doing and can’t even present at least 1 good argument based on the players' willingness for the absurd changes he want to make. The game is in the hands of people who do not play, do not know the game itself and the players themselves. I read this preview and I'm sure you guys don't play wvw and don't know what you're doing, the only contact you have with the community is through this forum and maybe reddit, but many players never come here, and I'm one of them. Many will stop playing without even posting their feedback here, as millions have already done, and for ignoring players like these, like me (who are the majority and are not on the forum, are in the game, which is where you guys are not) why the game is in that situation. You are about to lose your job because you are about to kill WvW. Some friends of mine stopped playing after the last scourge nerf and I saw an entire guild on my server drop the game for the same reason, and now you want to nerf the whole game WITHOUT ANY REASON BEYOND YOU WANT.
    You are not trying to balance META (which was supposedly your job), you are not trying to create a new META either, you are trying to totally change the gameplay, and to encourage players to totally change their way of playing is the same as to encourage testing other games on the market and you will see the result of that.
    Increasing the cooldown of skills for no good reason, for example, is nerfying the action aspect of the game, if we wanted a more strategic game, with cooldown and longer fights /TTK, we would be playing wow or another 20-year-old game. If you force me to deal with this type of gameplay I will do it in the game that makes it better.
    I just don't feel like playing the game you guys intend to create with this patch and I'm having the goodwill to warn you, but many will not, and unfortunately my message that represents several players who will quit the game silently will not get the attention it deserves because it would demand a certain intelligence beyond the trivial.
    I love this game and would prefer it to be in an indefinite state of maintenance like GW1 than to see patches like this kicking my friends out of the game. This game simply does not need this patch, work thrown in the trash, waste of money that can cost the game's health.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kalaina.8245 said:
    I think this is a step in the right direction. GW2 balance has always been a world of local maxima, where balance changes have just been poking the current state of things to try and move it toward some goal, but never really taking a step back to look at the game as a whole.

    I think GW2 really benefits from a top-down approach like this, but I have two primary concerns. The first is that these nerfs seem to be done across the board based on the types of skills and traits that exist, but the reality is that these skills and traits fulfill different roles and have different levels of importance in WvW. So you're essentially nerfing things that are already underperforming; this would be fine if we had some reason to expect that these things will later be buffed, but it feels to me like this is the first step before moving back to the status quo of tipping balance toward a local maximum.

    I think you should rate every single skill in the game based on its damage, cooldowns, utility, and reliability. A skill that's hard to hit with (aka easy to dodge) can have a higher power level than one that's much more difficult to hit with. Similarly with a skill on a long cooldown. A skill with a lower cooldown, or one that's hard to avoid, should have a lower overall dps because you'll be more likely to be dealing damage with it. I don't see anything indicating that this kind of top-down analysis was done. When the ultimate metrics are damage and healing, everything should be rated according to how much dps and hps it can deliver, modified by how likely it's going to be able to actually deliver on that damage and healing.

    The second concern is this: "Condition damage reductions are a bit less math-y, but ..." I don't think there's a place for balance in GW2 that isn't mathy. There aren't a great variety of stat sets to be concerned about in WvW. You know what Viper's can do, and similarly for Trailblazer, Grieving, Celestial, Minstrel, Berserker, Marauder, etc. It should be more than possible to calculate the amount of condition damage that a skill will do, and that should be calibrated just like power coefficients are. And just like power skills, they should be rated on damage, cooldowns, utility, and reliability for a variety of possible stat combinations. Moreover, entire weapons should also be evaluated according to the combination of all their skills, and while it's not possible to make every weapon excel with every stat combination, you can at least make sure nothing overperforms (or underperforms) with stats that work best for it.

    You have a fresh perspective on what GW2 balance should be, and you need to take the time to really understand the game. The chaos theory is much less pronounced than you might think; the chaos stems from changes made just like this - without a full analysis of all the facets of what a skill or trait can do - and the resulting fallout. A controlled, math-driven take that actually includes numerical stand-ins for softer factors like reliability is necessary if we're ever going to get to a level of game balance that's healthy, rather than one that players grow used to and learn to tolerate.

  • Heibi.4251Heibi.4251 Member ✭✭✭

    Stealth wasn't really addressed at all. It is completely unbalanced. If you're going to go overboard on these nerfs here are a few suggestions:
    1. In combat you cannot stealth. You can use the blindness but it only will affect hit chance(say 50% miss chance)
    2. Thief portal - get rid of it or make it a so only the thief can use it
    3. While stealthed you can only go at 30% normal movement speed
    4. No more spiking from stealth. All characters perform a "Look at me spiking this guy" move. It should be considered an attack and negate stealth instantly on pressing "F".

    Non-stealth stuff:
    Fix Line of Sight pulls and movement:
    1. The distance of the "flash" movement up onto objects should also consider overall distance that must be moved if they had to run all the way to the spot they moved to. I've watched thieves just flash up to a wall in SE and SW camps.
    2. Pulls Line of Sight needs to be massively fixed. Stop the pulls of someone down the stairs to up over the wall. Stop pulls through gates.

    All of the above stuff needs addressing before the massive nerf hammer you are about to drop on everyone. And don't forget the condi hell that you are about to create.

    Henge of Denravi Commander
    CA/CH/HOD/AIR

  • @apharma.3741 said:
    If conditions were remotely an option in large scale you would be seeing people playing or at least experimenting with condition builds and comps but it's not because Firebrand exists.

    you can't be serious? Firebrand doesn't clear condi's at all man...do you even arcdps?

  • Cooldowns and Durations

    We want cooldowns to be felt. Longer cooldowns promote more calculated usage of skills; if skills are used poorly it should create an opportunity for the enemy to push their advantage. Shorter durations of high impact buffs have a similar effect. Skillful timing is going to be rewarded, and poor usage is going to be exploitable by enemies. In some cases, it’s still going to make sense to have a longer duration attached to a longer cooldown, but most of the time we’re looking at shorter durations for things like stability, protection, quickness, high might stacks, among others.

    Instant Skills and Passive Traits

    Counterplay is important. Skills that have a major impact on an enemy player should allow that player the opportunity to react, which means that we want to avoid instant skills that do large amounts of damage or hard cc. In general, this means that instant skills are going to deal less damage or focus more on a secondary effect where applicable. Traits that fire instant skills, or that trigger an offensive effect under easy to fulfill conditions (on hit, on crit, mid-high health threshold, etc.) received similar considerations.

    We’ve also done a pass on traits that provide automatic defensive triggers. Traits that negate incoming CC or grant hard damage mitigation are getting large cooldown increases. Lesser defensive procs (protection on cc, auto condition cleanse, etc.) are also receiving longer cooldowns or reduced effectiveness, though not as extreme. We want to promote more active gameplay and this update is a good opportunity to make heavier adjustments to these passive traits.

    haven’t seen this mentioned, so here is my 2 coppers....
    This is going to kill WvW 50 on 50 fights dominated by skill lag.
    How can you time spell casts as required above when your servers can’t keep up?

    Also, what happens to players who have 300 ping? With shorter durations of channeled casts, what happens in the client when the server thinks the spell cast is over before the animation has begun? What about players whose hardware has a FPS of 25 in Zerg on Zerg fights? How can they time spells?
    Players in OCX and SEA time slots just got screwed.

    While the proposed changes may be good for sPvP, and 1v1 roamers, map queue on map queue fights are screwed.

  • Aury.1367Aury.1367 Member ✭✭✭
    • Warrior has Endure Pain changes in WvW switched with those in PvP (duration from 2s to 3s in WvW? Its already 4s in WvW)
    • Shield Stance got its ... Power Coefficient reduced in seconds? Hello? Its a kitten stance, it doesnt do damage.
    • Headbutt just got its 50% damage addition when stability is removed. With the upcomming nerf its damage is pretty much useless anyway, so I hope this bonus gets changed into something else
    • Kick should be boosted, otherwise this already useless skill is already less useful
  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    are theese weapon changes for ONLY wvw or also for tpvp?

  • SehferViega.8725SehferViega.8725 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    Thief

    Acrobatics

    • Feline Grace: Reduced vigor duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
    • Endless Stamina: Reduced concentration from 240 to 60
    • Pain Response: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 60 seconds
    • Hard to Catch: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds
    • Instant Reflexes: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds

    @Cal Cohen.2358 these are the PvP cooldown.. not the WvW cooldown.

    IN WvW
    Pain Response cooldown is 16 seconds.
    Hard to Catch cooldown is 30 seconds.
    Instant Reflexes cooldown is 40 seconds.

    Now tell me who the hell will play Acrobatics trait line with your new cooldowns.

    Thief has no place in squad, if not with Daredevil staff build.. now that Staff build will be raized down, and solo roaming with thief will be impossible cause new fantastic damage (50% damage reduction on Dagger autoattack chain, when now, with 3114 power hit for 900-1000.. 33% damage reduction on backstab that hits for 9,5k against full marauder thieves.. how it's a thief suppose to kill a warrior, a guardian an holosmith or a soulbeast?) What will be the place of thieves in your new fantastic version of WvW?

    Pulmonary Impact makes 600-1900 damage.. pretty fair IMO, tell me the point in reduce this damage by 266%.. this will mean 210-715 damage. 210?!? I will have to spend 4 initiative to make 210 damage?

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    Can you all at least at a visual for being able to see your passives on Cooldown for Quality of Life. Since its 5 minute cool down i at least want to know when my passive is coming back off Cooldown... That 300 second Cool down is going to be a pain especially when your server is constantly outnumbered ALL DAY. Add some more quality of life implementations for christ sakes..

  • Thanks for new balance patch, now can delete the game for next balance.

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    Why do you guys always ask for feedback then release the patch with no changes at all. It's completely pointless asking for player feedback when you do this every balance patch.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    When will the patch come out? :p

    Do not listen to any of the players. the most of them will try to make their class better, but with this all are equally bad ^^ (in wvw&pvp at least)

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    I play on a server that is constantly outnumbered and fights always turn into a +1 or +2 , these changes are going to make playing this game less enjoyable than it already is because you're constantly fighting multiple people.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If conditions were remotely an option in large scale you would be seeing people playing or at least experimenting with condition builds and comps but it's not because Firebrand exists.

    you can't be serious? Firebrand doesn't clear condi's at all man...do you even arcdps?

    If you think they do not cleanse or provide condition immunity (not registered in arc fyi) through correct application of resistance then you must be playing with your eyes closed and your brain off. It won't be the top 3 cleansing players but below that when played by people who use skills they make up a significant part of a groups cleansing and double firebrand played by anyone who isn't a potato can more than keep up with condition application.

    The tempests being the top cleanses on arc is mostly because of 10 target cleanses, it's kind of hard to compete for cleanses against a class that can press 1 button and cleanse 40+ conditions, press another button and cleanse 15 conditions....because that's literally how broken tempest is for cleansing if played by someone who can hit buttons. Good news though, that's barely being touched outside of water overload.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If you think they do not cleanse or provide condition immunity (not registered in arc fyi) through correct application of resistance then you must be playing with your eyes closed and your brain off. It won't be the top 3 cleansing players but below that when played by people who use skills they make up a significant part of a groups cleansing and double firebrand played by anyone who isn't a potato can more than keep up with condition application.

    Sure Chap 4 is nice and all for resistance. But we weren't talking about resistance, we were talking about cleansing. Resistance can be corrupted and counter-played, cleansing can not, which Firebrand is so low cleansing in comparison to say a tempest or a scrapper.

    Think of it this way... If you are fighting a condi-blob, then you are fighting against corruption...where resistance will get stripped instantly and turned into a condition that you need to cleanse... If you think firebrand is what's holding that play-style at bay, then i don't know what to tell you.

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

  • Kilamanjaro.2705Kilamanjaro.2705 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Looks like a knee-jerk nerf. Ele definitely needed some tone down but we'll have to see if this is as harsh as it appears.
    Disappointed that spam mezmer builds and dump and run teefs go untouched again tho.
    Disappointed that no replacement for the scrapper reveal has been brought in yet. I don't care what class it's on but stealth is way out of balance since its removal. Perhaps "sniff" could be placed slottable so that you dont have to be out of combat and mounted to use it. (Just a knee-jerk thought off the top of my head)

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    If you think they do not cleanse or provide condition immunity (not registered in arc fyi) through correct application of resistance then you must be playing with your eyes closed and your brain off. It won't be the top 3 cleansing players but below that when played by people who use skills they make up a significant part of a groups cleansing and double firebrand played by anyone who isn't a potato can more than keep up with condition application.

    Sure Chap 4 is nice and all for resistance. But we weren't talking about resistance, we were talking about cleansing. Resistance can be corrupted and counter-played, cleansing can not, which Firebrand is so low cleansing in comparison to say a tempest or a scrapper.

    Think of it this way... If you are fighting a condi-blob, you are fighting against corruption...where resistance will get stripped instantly and turned into a condition that you need to cleanse... If you think firebrand is what's holding that play-style at bay, then i don't know what to tell you.

    2 things.

    1. Pulsing 1s resistance is as good as cleansing. Do you know why? Because you get to not suffer the penalties of the conditions. This is honestly not a basic concept that should need explaining. Whether you permanently remove the condition or differ it's effects to a period of time where the enemy cannot benefit from it's application is the same thing in effect.
    2. You're comparing FB built for healing to 2 class/build combinations that are set up to cleanse primarily and built from the ground up to do so. FB outheals both these classes or should if not played by a brain damaged monkey, however we don't turn round and ignore the amount of healing tempest and scrapper both contribute to the group simply because they come behind FB. Likewise we shouldn't ignore the amount of cleanses FB contributes and it can contribute more if it drops MI in favour of group cleanses like purging flames which will depend on how much they nerf healing on MI etc. I would still expect FB to come further down the cleanse list though because 10 target literally doubles your cleansing power however I don't think it would be needed.
  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hadi.6025 said:
    Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

    You seem like a sad panda. Oh how the tables have turned 😂

    Tell us more, or shall I say QQ moar?

    [HCM] 4 life!

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:
    Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

    You seem like a sad panda. Oh how the tables have turned 😂

    Tell us more, or shall I say QQ moar?

    do i know you?

  • @Hadi.6025 said:

    Meanwhile...

    I'm dying... XD

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hadi.6025 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:
    Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

    You seem like a sad panda. Oh how the tables have turned 😂

    Tell us more, or shall I say QQ moar?

    do i know you?

    Not under this alias, but I’ve been drinking your twitch tears for years now.

    [HCM] 4 life!

  • desu.2514desu.2514 Member ✭✭

    My solution for stealth would be to have after being stealth or invis for 3 seconds you gain a debuff causing any skill to reveal you at the start of its cast and also players within 200? (Somewhere just outside of melee) to be able to see you. Would give that 1/4 second to react while not stopping stealth blasting for groups ect or removing the viability of using stealth to escape from melee as you have 3 second grace period to escape melee range

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:
    Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

    You seem like a sad panda. Oh how the tables have turned 😂

    Tell us more, or shall I say QQ moar?

    do i know you?

    Not under this alias, but I’ve been drinking your twitch tears for years now.

    oh a weird fan boy. Want an autograph? i dont even stream like that loser lmfao.

  • NeroBoron.7285NeroBoron.7285 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    I like where this i going, maybe it will feel like core times once again :)

    But:

    • Did you forget about condis? I feel like you forgot them, they should be nerfed as well to match power
    • Defy Pain sould be invul as well and lock warriors out of spells just like obsidian flesh
    • Why are you always so drastic? Like every cc skill now has a coeffiecent of 0.1, bulls charge got reduced from 2.0 to 0.1. It feels like you never learn that there are adjustments inbetween. 0.5 would probably be also fine. I think the minimum amout on the ccs could at least match the damage of an auto attack
    • Replace 300sec cd auto proc traits with sth useful, i also saw same cd for pvp, are you serious? It will proc twice a match. Come on be more creative please
  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    Somebody pinch me...am I seeing this? Elite specs and overall powercreep being addressed right before my eyes after such a long time?

    All I can say is....yes! I am on board! I support it. Loving the general nerf of damage and sustainability, especially of elite specializations. Consider this great feedback!

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not addressing over power boon effects (not duration) and not addressing hp / def different between classes is a massive error on anets end. Your just nerfing active game play with the chose they are making now.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Hadi.6025 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:
    Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

    You seem like a sad panda. Oh how the tables have turned 😂

    Tell us more, or shall I say QQ moar?

    do i know you?

    Not under this alias, but I’ve been drinking your twitch tears for years now.

    oh a weird fan boy. Want an autograph? i dont even stream like that loser lmfao.

    Sign my boobs with your salty tears. I guess I haven’t stream sniped you in a while so you’re getting mouthy again.

    [HCM] 4 life!

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Hadi.6025 said:
    Killed power builds but Trailblazer / Protection / boon duration builds untouched. Good luck trying to kill that one guy standing around waiting for his zerg to come run you over.

    You seem like a sad panda. Oh how the tables have turned 😂

    Tell us more, or shall I say QQ moar?

    do i know you?

    Not under this alias, but I’ve been drinking your twitch tears for years now.

    oh a weird fan boy. Want an autograph? i dont even stream like that loser lmfao.

    Sign my boobs with your salty tears. I guess I haven’t stream sniped you in a while so you’re getting mouthy again.

    here you go nerd

  • @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    snips

    you could be right, i'm not entirely sure how it will play out as I haven't played wvw in a fast while. we'll see folks!

    Te lazla otstara.

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    Engineer

    Firearms

    • Sharpshooter: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 1 second
    • Serrated Steel: Reduced bonus bleeding duration from 33% to 15%
    • Thermal Vision: Reduced expertise from 150 to 60
    • Juggernaut: Reduced might duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced bonus might duration from 20% to 10%
    • Incendiary Powder: Reduced bonus burning duration from 33% to 10%. Reduced burning duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds

    As I flipped through engi changes the only request I really have is please make serrated steel and incendiary powder provide the same amount of additional duration. Don't care which you pick of the 2, just make them the same so it's easier for us to build around when optimizing for multiple condi durations since the 100% additional duration cap is a thing and having 95% or 105% in one or the other feels bad.

  • @Zavage.6270 said:
    3. main concern, you nerfed direct damage on cc's into almost non-existence and that's fine. However damage conditions that are on cc's remain unaffected by this change. Will this not merely create a very high condi based meta because their cc skills will still apply a large amount of damage from their condition?

    For Example: Magic bullet on mesmer. It can hit up to 4 people and apply 3 stacks of confusion, stuns the first target, dazes the second and blinds the third. It already has a low damage coefficient however the amount of damage you'll take from the condition application will remain unchanged. Simply put cc's that apply damage conditions aren't losing their main damage dealt on CC's where as power based builds are losing them entirely. Do you think this will be an issue?

    This is also my concern, we have seen Nerf's overall to power coefficient, but not a direct damage Nerf to condition application, which primarily was the biggest issue because conditions stacked making it the cause of dying to outrages conditions apply by 1 person or multiple without having enough condi clense. if condition damage/application is not Nerf I fear it will remain being an issue like it has in the past.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:
    o well i was expecting good changes, why did i fool my self even :D

    i mean this probably the worst patch i've seen over multiple games.
    lets just lower every1 dmg/healing and increase CD on skills, touché guys i couldnt have thought of anything else..

    hopefully im wrong and this change is actually mad good but as i look at it now even more people will bail out from WvW :(

    +1

    Here is a perfect example of what's going to happen:

    (It is like hiring a pest control to eliminate rodents at your residence and intentionally leaving rodents specimens behind...untouched and patting themselves on their back and saying, 'hey, we did a good job' )

    A specific 'Specimen' Stealth is intentionally being left behind, untouched and we are supposed to put a big smile on our faces??

    -After many years of knowing and experiencing the Truth; i believe we clearly get-the-picture of the deception-

    that we, you and i are not stupid

    At the end kinda feels a bit like its the same as Anet would increased health pools since damage and heals will be lower, i do think it will result to a better in more skilled group rather than build + aoe+ numbers situations.

    But theres more, damage CC skills are now CC effect mostly , some of the simple rotations were based on CC and high damage on the same time and some builds could have some decent to strong sustain.

    People will have to focus on strategies more rather than search lame gimicks(like the current aoe gameplay we have atm), as in who's for the suppor/heals, damage and maybe some inner small group tied for CC's or damage with CC's, its not all can do alot at sametime, wich was leading tu overperformance of the players and classes during a certain momentum.
    Game probably wont be that basic and simple how it is now to carry trough damage ouput, so many will hate if their overperformance is nerfed.

    Stealth must be a spaghety of code, touch and it becames far worse, dont forget that on a 50 vs 50 the players that will keep stealthing and unstealthing will get "culled" efect over time and the enemy will only see the guild tag and the health bar of the culled players, so its must be quite tricky to touch stealth, maybe tweaking times and removing thief capability to remove the reveal would be a nice change, and way less stealth on classes would help as well.

    Im worried about mesmers.

    Overall this is some sorta of reset on skills, ofc they will increase and drecrease quoficients in some skills.
    Anet will have to pay atention to what increases players feel skill need, alot of gw2 only know how to play with powercreeping.

    TDLR: this is the price for never having a true balance iteration on the game. so alot of skill damage output had to be reseted CC's mainly.

  • desu.2514desu.2514 Member ✭✭

    Hell as far as balance goes between core and elites you should of just made a core trait line and force players to choose one of the now 3 class lines plus 2 from the ones we already have outside of elite. You can then add or subtract % bonus or nerf to each of the 3 specs in damage/condi to make balance easier across all modes.

  • Vova.2640Vova.2640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    I can still see alot of diversity but based on player objectives in the party (more than the current and only way to play wich leads to same builds on FB,scourge,warrior,scrapper zerg comp)
    Having one meta wich is what is called lack of diversity, this will make players more avaliable to mix n match more stats.

    You dont seem to understand how this game works......
    Just look at the changed and think for a sec...

    Revs basically lost half their dmg. It is not very likely that ppl will play power herald anymore. Better stack scourge instead cause wells barely got nerfed.

    Warrior was mainly used for dome... that got hard nerfed as well (not to mention the dmg on hammer....).. replace all warriors with scourge bwecause once again, wells barely got nerfed both in terms of dmg and corruption.

    Stability on guardian got hard nerfed + no other class has any reliable way to apply stability to allies. What does this mean?
    This means now groups will more likely need 2 FBs per party, which means other other type of healer will now lose its slot in a party.
    Diversity suffers.

    I can already see groups going back to being 40% minstrel FBs, 50% dire/trailblazer scourge, 10% warrior/scrapper/tempest/renegade.
    This is the worst possible balance patch they could push....

    They need to add mechanics to other classes so that they could be useful in some ways in wvw, not take away everything thus bringing wvw fights down to a crawl because everyone hits like a wet noodle.........

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Vova.2640 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    I can still see alot of diversity but based on player objectives in the party (more than the current and only way to play wich leads to same builds on FB,scourge,warrior,scrapper zerg comp)
    Having one meta wich is what is called lack of diversity, this will make players more avaliable to mix n match more stats.

    You dont seem to understand how this game works......
    Just look at the changed and think for a sec...

    Revs basically lost half their dmg. It is not very likely that ppl will play power herald anymore. Better stack scourge instead cause wells barely got nerfed.

    Warrior was mainly used for dome... that got hard nerfed as well (not to mention the dmg on hammer....).. replace all warriors with scourge bwecause once again, wells barely got nerfed both in terms of dmg and corruption.

    Stability on guardian got hard nerfed + no other class has any reliable way to apply stability to allies. What does this mean?
    This means now groups will more likely need 2 FBs per party, which means other other type of healer will now lose its slot in a party.
    Diversity suffers.

    I can already see groups going back to being 40% minstrel FBs, 50% dire/trailblazer scourge, 10% warrior/scrapper/tempest/renegade.
    This is the worst possible balance patch they could push....

    They need to add mechanics to other classes so that they could be useful in some ways in wvw, not take away everything thus bringing wvw fights down to a crawl because everyone hits like a wet noodle.........

    Lamers group trying to win with overperformance sturdiness will do that, yes... like they do it now.....

    Stop thinkin in meta, cause atm there isnt build diversity either.

    Players will have to be more dedicated to certain roles if they want to gain more or stack more of the same wich is s tupid, the boon stacking is another mistake of the dev's, they should add kept the gw1 system that avoid this kinda of stacking gameplay.
    But that's another story and mistake done by Anet, maybe it will take another 7 years to notice.

  • Vova.2640Vova.2640 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Lamers group trying to win with overperformance sturdiness will do that, yes... like they do it now.....

    Stop thinkin in meta, cause atm there isnt build diversity either.

    You're kidding right.................
    Everyone wants to win. meta exists for a reason... because it is what is THE BEST currently.
    If you enjoy losing fights and dying.... then run w.e you want.
    but guess what, most people want to win and will run whatever BS they are forced to run in order to win.
    This is a problem that ANET creates and leaves people with no choice but to follow it.