PVP mesmer changes -> Discussion ( ill edit in my thoughts later propably ) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PVP mesmer changes -> Discussion ( ill edit in my thoughts later propably )

Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 6, 2020 in Mesmer

Mesmer
Profession Mechanics
EXTRA CHANGES

Signet of Domination: Slowed down the animation so the stun occurs at 560ms (up from 360ms)
Spatial Surge: Now displays damage maximum then minimum in description.
Mirror Blade: Fixed a bug which caused this skill to play its slashing effect on the player instead of its target. Cooldown reduced from 8s to 5s. Rather than inflict 1.0/0.6 dmg per hit, it now reduces the damage on future bounces by 15% each time.
Mind Stab: Cooldown reduced from 12 to 10 seconds. No longer removes boons. It now inflicts cripple instead. 5s in PvE, likely to be reduced in PvP/WvW.
Phantasmal Berserker: Cooldown reduced from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. No longer cripples, instead the projectile removes 2 boons. Projectile no longer boomerangs.
Confounding Suggestions: This trait has been retired and been replaced with Bountiful Blades.
Bountiful Blades (NEW): Mirror Blades bounces 2 additional times. Phantasmal Berserker summons an additional berserker and they each deal less damage (33% instead of 25% less damage.
Imagined Burden: This trait has been retired and been replaced with Vicious Expression.
Vicious Expression (NEW): You and your illusions deal increased damage to foes without boons. Disabling a foe removes 2 boons in PvE, and 1 boon in PvP and WvW.
Elusive Mind: This trait no longer stunbreaks or inflicts exhaustion. Increased the number of conditions cleansed from 1 to 3 in PvE, and to 2 in PvP and WvW.

Shatters

Mind Wrack: Adjusted as follows.
One Clone Shattered: Reduced power coefficient from 1.15 to 1.0
Two Clones Shattered: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.92 to 0.7
Three Clones Shattered: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.805 to 0.613
Chrono Shatters

Split Second: Adjusted as follows.
One Clone Shattered: Reduced power coefficient from 1.15 to 1.0
Two Clones Shattered: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.92 to 0.7
Three Clones Shattered: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.805 to 0.613
Weapons

Greatsword

Spatial Surge: Reduced minimum power coefficient per strike from 0.23 to 0.15. Reduced maximum power coefficient from 0.335 to 0.223
Mirror Blade: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 seconds
Mind Stab: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.7
Phantasmal Berserker: Reduced phantasm power coefficient per strike from 0.23 to 0.15
Illusionary Wave: Reduced power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.01. Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 25 seconds
Staff

Winds of Chaos: Reduced power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.2
Phase Retreat: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 12 seconds
Phantasmal Warlock: WvW will now use the PvP version of the skill (1 warlock summoned)
Scepter

Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.5/0.5/0.75 to 0.333/0.333/0.5
Illusionary Counter: Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds. WvW will now use the PvP version of the skill (1 clone summoned)
Confusing Images: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.38 to 0.255
Sword

Autoattack Chain: Adjusted as follows

Mind Slash: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.5
Mind Gash: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.5
Mind Spike: Reduced base power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.666. Reduced power coefficient against foes with no boons from 2.0 to 1.333
Blurred Frenzy: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.2564 to 0.128

Sword OH

Illusionary Riposte: Reduced power coefficient from 2.0 to 1.0
Phantasmal Swordsman: Reduced power coefficient of the phantasm leap attack from 0.5 to 0.35, Reduced power coefficient per strike of the phantasm flurry attack from 0.15 to 0.1
Focus

Phantasmal Warden: Reduced power coefficient per strike of the warden attack from 0.138 to 0.1
Pistol

Phantasmal Duelist: Reduced power coefficient per strike of the phantasm attack from 0.115 to 0.1
Magic Bullet: Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.01. Reduced stun duration from 2.5 seconds to 2 seconds
Torch

The Prestige: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.5
Shield

Tides of Time: Reduced power coefficient from 0.8 to 0.01
Axe

Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.55/0.55/1.1 to 0.366/0.366/0.732
Lingering Thoughts: Increased ammo recharge from 10 seconds to 12 seconds
Axes of Symmetry: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds
Heal

Ether Feast: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds
Mantra of Recovery: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 18 seconds
Mirror: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds
Signet of the Ether: Reduced illusion summon base heal from 350 to 297
Well of Eternity: Reduced initial base heal from 3230 to 2099. Reduced ending heal coefficient from 1.2 to 0.8
False Oasis: Reduced pulse base heal from 1620 to 1215. Reduced pulse heal coefficient from 0.5 to 0.2
Utility

Decoy: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 seconds
Mirror Images: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 35 seconds
Arcane Thievery: Reduced quickness and slow duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds
Blink: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 35 seconds
Mantra of Concentration: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 60 seconds. Increased ammo recharge from 30 seconds to 45 seconds
Mantra of Distraction: Reduced diversion recharge from 15 seconds to 10 seconds

Power Lock (from Mantra of Distraction): Reduced daze duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second
Power Spike (from Mantra of Pain): Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.45. Adjusted vulnerability from 5 stacks for 8 seconds to 12 stacks for 6 seconds

Mantra of Resolve: Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 25 seconds
Signet of Midnight: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 35 seconds
Well of Action: Reduced quickness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
Well of Precognition: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 45 seconds
Sand Through Glass: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds
Elite

Mass Invisibility: Increased cooldown from 60 seconds to 75 seconds
Gravity Well: Reduced pulse power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.01. Reduced final power coefficient from 2.4 to 0.01 Reduced cooldown from 90 seconds to 60 seconds
Traits

Domination

Dazzling: Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
Rending Shatter: Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
Furious Interruption: Reduced quickness duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
Power Block: Reduced weakness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
Dueling

Sharper Images: Reduced bleeding duration from 5 seconds to 2 seconds
Desperate Decoy: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 120 seconds
Duelist's Discipline: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
Evasive Mirror: Reduced mirror duration from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds
Chaos

Metaphysical Rejuvenation: Reduced regeneration duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds
Illusionary Membrane: Reduced protection duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
Chaotic Persistence: Reduced bonus boon and condition duration per boon from 2% to 1%
Method of Madness: Increased cooldown from 35 seconds to 75 seconds
Master of Manipulation: Reduced superspeed duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds
Chaotic Transference: Increased toughness to condition damage conversion from 7% to 13%. Reduced concentration to expertise conversion from 13% to 5%
Chaotic Dampening: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 2.5 seconds
Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
Inspiration

Restorative Illusions: Reduced heal coefficient from 0.77 to 0.46
Mental Defense; Increased internal cooldown from 50 seconds to 90 seconds
Illusions

Phantasmal Haste: Reduced quickness duration from 1.5 seconds to 1 second
Maim the Disillusioned: Reduced torment duration from 4 seconds to 3 seconds
Phantasmal Force: Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds
Chronomancer

Delayed Reactions: Reduced slow duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds
Seize the Moment: Reduced quickness duration from 2 seconds to 1 second
Mirage

Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes
Renewing Oasis: Reduced regeneration duration from 4 seconds to 2.5 seconds
Dune Cloak: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.5

EDIT
1 What I dont like about these changes : NO MECHANICS WERE CHANGED, its just the numbers going down, and cooldowns going down and nothing else.
2 By skimming through the patches damage goes down across the board, but condi cleanse stays the same. Condi damage in general might be dead after the patch.
3 CC damage went down by ALOT, but since mesmer deals no damage with CC already, we are unaffected.
4 Mirage might be dead after -50 endurance change
5 CI and EM ( placeholder traits ) still have not been replaced.

My thoughts and conclusion :
Condi mes ( mirage ) gets hard nerfed by bleed on crit nerf and amulet removal, propably about 50% damage nerf if not more.
I expect it to be dead.
mirage = dead
chrono = dead
And I suspect that core mesmer will be VERY bad.
My biggest hope is in power core that MIGHT be playable, but I fully expect mesmer to be the weakest class in the game.

Please share your thoughts yall.
Links to posts
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96744/balance-patch-preview-pvp#latest
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96747/balance-patch-preview-global

<13

Comments

  • Condi cleanse stay the same (except on firebrand) but condi damage do not change that much either. Power damage got way more nerfs, and sustain got nerfed a lot aswell. I think condi damage will be better after this actually. But yeah the -50 endurance is a really hard hit to mirage, we might start to see more core mesmers than mirages now.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gryxis.6950 said:
    Condi cleanse stay the same (except on firebrand) but condi damage do not change that much either. Power damage got way more nerfs, and sustain got nerfed a lot aswell. I think condi damage will be better after this actually. But yeah the -50 endurance is a really hard hit to mirage, we might start to see more core mesmers than mirages now.

    Condi amulets got removed, and this -> Sharper Images: Reduced bleeding duration from 5 seconds to 2 seconds

    • without ambushes core SRSL lacks the damage as it is.
      But my biggest worry is, thief wasnt nerfed all that hard and since it kitten on mesmer....
      Looking at these changed I suspect core power mesmer might be a thing.
      f1 shatter wasnt nerfed as hard, all our CC deals no damage so it wasnt nerfed too. Time will tell
  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    BIG EDIT
    more changes here
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96747/balance-patch-preview-global
    EM is no longer the worst trait in the game

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    Condi amulets got removed, and this -> Sharper Images: Reduced bleeding duration from 5 seconds to 2 seconds

    • without ambushes core SRSL lacks the damage as it is.
      But my biggest worry is, thief wasnt nerfed all that hard and since it kitten on mesmer....
      Looking at these changed I suspect core power mesmer might be a thing.
      f1 shatter wasnt nerfed as hard, all our CC deals no damage so it wasnt nerfed too. Time will tell

    Well I'm mostly a wvw player so I didn't notice the fact amulets got removed, I'm used to the trailblazer condi mirages (which won't really get hit by the sharper images nerf). In there I suspect core bunker condi mesmer might be the next thing as it was alreay pretty strong and did not get nerf as much as anything else. But in pvp yeah I guess if the amulets got removed power mesmer will be the next thing. And power mirage might still be alive considering they didn't nerf the ambush's damage (and the greatsword ambush was pretty strong) but they nerfed the sustain. But yeah it'll be hard for any mirage i feel like.

    Also I really don't get the huge nerf to the mantra of concentration, if it was too strong which does not feel like it a lighter nerf would have been good enough (and i even less get the nerf to mental defense this trait has been trash since ages)

  • oh i didn't notice there was a global balance patch view hold on i'll read it

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Simonoly.4352 said:
    I'm assuming that Mirage -50% endurance has been thoroughly tested in the context of all the other nerfs and changes and is actually a functional change. Otherwise it's going to be utterly unplayable. Sacrificing not just half of your endurance but also the movement involved with regular dodging. Oh deary me.

    I also assume that this means Mirage Cloak itself will be buffed to be far more potent and the Ambush Skills will become super dangerous and impactful now that the resource powering them has been halved. A resource I must add, that's already in competition with its use for simply dodging.

    Mirage might die yes...

    I doubt they did any testing above " it doesnt crash the game ".
    there is ALOT of nerfs that are for the sake of it.
    like mental defence ( gryxis mention it already )
    nerf to decoy or other useless trait.
    Implemented as a "lets nerf everything just to be safe" option.
    I crunched some numbers and new GS trait might actually lower damage for example, kekW

  • Ansau.7326Ansau.7326 Member ✭✭✭

    Carrion and Sage amulets will still be there. Condi mirage or condi core in bunker mode might be the only option for pvp.
    Anyway, be prepared for thief ruling pvp and wvw in godmode while others will have to accept becoming peasants.

    RIP Chrono 10/2015-7/2019

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Ansau.7326 said:
    condi core in bunker mode might be the only option for pvp.

    Something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAYtzlVwuYJMFGKeuT7reA-z5YXGRWBZmCaMA

  • NICENIKESHOE.7128NICENIKESHOE.7128 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Haha mirror blade bouncing 6 times is going to be hilarious, though it only really meant one extra hit for opponent(s).
    Core mesmer is definitely going to surpass mirage after they gutted endurance, and chrono is already dead in PvP.

    The boon removals are welcome, if only they changed negligible rending shatter to a new trait that deal x damage (or heck apply 3x 3s vulnerability) on boon removals to see real punishments for boonspams (part of reason why I swap to spellbreaker). Though it really depend on how bad other profession's boon generation skills are nerfed.

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ansau.7326 said:
    Carrion and Sage amulets will still be there. Condi mirage or condi core in bunker mode might be the only option for pvp.
    Anyway, be prepared for thief ruling pvp and wvw in godmode while others will have to accept becoming peasants.

    Its been heading that way anyway. The game is just not what is was. It seems like its heading to zero awfully fast sadly. Ohh well. Sad day.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Jables.4659 said:
    Nerfing mirage's endurance bar in half is insanity. I understand that there are large nerfs across the board, but this is just too much.

    Yeah, it seems a little extreme...

    Personally fail to see how this is an extreme change.
    I mean we have a trait, a heal skill and utility skills (it might actually make them worth using) that generate mirage cristals to get some evade uptime. Plus, dueling will still be able to make mesmer gain endurance and we all know it is easier to recharge 1 endurance bar than 2.

    That is also the only nerf that makes it acceptable to get evade uptime while being Cc’ed since they obviously have no intention to change that (whether it is a case of design choice or/and resource management).

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @flog.3485 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Jables.4659 said:
    Nerfing mirage's endurance bar in half is insanity. I understand that there are large nerfs across the board, but this is just too much.

    Yeah, it seems a little extreme...

    Personally fail to see how this is an extreme change.
    I mean we have a trait, a heal skill and utility skills (it might actually make them worth using) that generate mirage cristals to get some evade uptime. Plus, dueling will still be able to make mesmer gain endurance and we all know it is easier to recharge 1 endurance bar than 2.

    That is also the only nerf that makes it acceptable to get evade uptime while being Cc’ed since they obviously have no intention to change that (whether it is a case of design choice or/and resource management).

    mirage needs to use dodges to deal any damage.
    immagine playing power mirage and using ambush, now you are stuck with 0 evades lol.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    Sand Through Glass seems ok now that mirage lacks a dodge.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:
    Sand Through Glass seems ok now that mirage lacks a dodge.

    no but illusionary ambush

    // Yanim

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Jables.4659 said:
    Nerfing mirage's endurance bar in half is insanity. I understand that there are large nerfs across the board, but this is just too much.

    Yeah, it seems a little extreme...

    Personally fail to see how this is an extreme change.
    I mean we have a trait, a heal skill and utility skills (it might actually make them worth using) that generate mirage cristals to get some evade uptime. Plus, dueling will still be able to make mesmer gain endurance and we all know it is easier to recharge 1 endurance bar than 2.

    That is also the only nerf that makes it acceptable to get evade uptime while being Cc’ed since they obviously have no intention to change that (whether it is a case of design choice or/and resource management).

    mirage needs to use dodges to deal any damage.
    immagine playing power mirage and using ambush, now you are stuck with 0 evades lol.

    And the mechanic of dodge is produced by creating and destroying these mirage cristals. I mean, take a look at illusionary ambush: you don’t even need to create a cristal in order to gain the effect of mirage ambush for you to apply additional damage.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wont use sand throught glass untill its bug is fixed, IA seems OK now, but we need to see how crippling -50 endurance will be.
    I bet this will compleatly kitten up endurance economy, removing something like 25 would make more sense, now endurance will keep being wasted.
    Nice elite mechanic xd

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting stuff, on board with most of it.

    I am apprehensive about this single dodge on mirage, though on the other hand I am also open and accepting to this change. However, if this is the case I believe the mirage cloak duration should go back to 1 second acting as a kind of "lesser distortion" that can't be chained, properly differentiating from normal dodge. Remembering the loss of a dodge bar has a number of consequences such as movement, defence and offence, not to mention taking care with not overcapping on endurance regains at the wrong time - good to give some challenge to skill. But this will be the only spec where you can't keep a dodge in your back pocket when burning one.

    Elusive Mind change is just boring though. Better than now and glad after 2 years it is finally addressed, but uninspired and not the most creative option to simply give it one additional cleanse.

    But it seems while in general it is a lot of number nerfs, it's doesn't look to be doing much to address passivity of mechanics - ie leaning on clone ambushes for damage application. Sure we'll all do less damage, but gameplay while slower still looks to be fairly monotonous as at present.

    Anyway, looking forward to a good reason to play and theory craft again. Hopefully this game takes a much needed turn for the better now.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    Basically to me, it looks like mesmer is dead as a class for pvp and wvw other than GS burst if that still ends up working afterwards which is horribly sad to me. I really am at a total loss for words and cant really voice what Im thinking here due to forum rules. Not convinced the newest balance changes wont literally kill off what is left of the mesmer player base.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    I wont use sand throught glass untill its bug is fixed, IA seems OK now, but we need to see how crippling -50 endurance will be.
    I bet this will compleatly kitten up endurance economy, removing something like 25 would make more sense, now endurance will keep being wasted.
    Nice elite mechanic xd

    No, no. You don't understand. It's okay because it's only PvP. Mirage still works in PvE, so we're cool. Good change! You just have to understand what they were trying to do with it.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    I wont use sand throught glass untill its bug is fixed, IA seems OK now, but we need to see how crippling -50 endurance will be.
    I bet this will compleatly kitten up endurance economy, removing something like 25 would make more sense, now endurance will keep being wasted.
    Nice elite mechanic xd

    No, no. You don't understand. It's okay because it's only PvP. Mirage still works in PvE, so we're cool. Good change! You just have to understand what they were trying to do with it.

    same thing they did to chrono? xd

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    On the subject of single dodge, just like how Chrono really needs further scaffolding and iteration following the removal of self shatter, mirage equally will need scaffolding to support the principle of single dodge.

    ie, maybe there should be a greater focus on endurance regen rate (at the same time nerf energy sigils and adventurer rune in wvw/pve to 25%), so vigour duration on nomads endurance back to 3s. Maybe even have mirage have baseline 25% faster endurance regen - so the principle is shifted to one powerful dodge with endurance regain faster than Core/Chrono, but that cannot be chained, effectively being on a few seconds cooldown per use.

    I'd go as far as saying with proper scaffolding maybe it should be a global change for mirage across all modes, for the sake of muscle memory and gameplay parity - because 2 dodge mirage in pve is going to play very different to 1 dodge mirage in pve/wvw which is beyond the realm of a simple skill split.

    I think it's interesting and could work, but they can't do a Chrono - smack down this huge change and do nothing else to it for the next 6months-1year+... It needs additional changes and proactive iteration to support.

    Edit - for the record, Im trying to look for the positive, while also being open to it being left at 2 dodges. As long as the end result is functional in all the game modes, with a variety of builds and weapons. I just hope they test this carefully.

    My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes

    to

    Mirage Cloak: Ambushes reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Look bad for mirage yes.
    And lol at already dead traits who are gut :D.

  • Fade.5904Fade.5904 Member ✭✭✭

    imo its kind of a lazy design choice it seems like the easy way out and not really a trade off at all.
    When a nerf is just that, a straight up nerf, it never sits well with me as i think there are far more interesting ways this could have been implemented:
    For EG:
    have 50% endurance but have it recharge a portion every time you shatter. Since shatters have their own cool downs this could make for some interesting game play and truly be trade off .

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fade.5904 said:
    imo its kind of a lazy design choice it seems like the easy way out and not really a trade off at all.
    When a nerf is just that, a straight up nerf, it never sits well with me as i think there are far more interesting ways this could have been implemented:
    For EG:
    have 50% endurance but have it recharge a portion every time you shatter. Since shatters have their own cool downs this could make for some interesting game play and truly be trade off .

    problem with 1 endurace bar is that endurace gets wasted when you have 1 bar. and since mirage uses endurance for damage....
    it means you will ALWAYS waste damage and survivability

  • if damage got destroyed by ~30% across the board, core zerk might actually work lol.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Levetty.1279Levetty.1279 Member ✭✭✭

    Condensed patch notes:
    Removed Mesmer from PvP

    Still pleasantly surprised they found a way to give Mirage a 2nd drawback without it effecting PvE so everything turned out better then I expected. Was hoping for bigger shakeups across the board on all classes though since we are never going to get another Elite Spec and this probably won't stop whine about Mesmer that will eventually seep into PvE patch notes.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    I crunched some numbers and new GS trait might actually lower damage for example, kekW

    I'm interested how, the berserker nerf seems stupid considering they claimed they were trying to buff Greatsword.

  • Zoser.7245Zoser.7245 Member ✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @Levetty.1279 said:
    Condensed patch notes:
    Removed Mesmer from PvP

    Still pleasantly surprised they found a way to give Mirage a 2nd drawback without it effecting PvE so everything turned out better then I expected. Was hoping for bigger shakeups across the board on all classes though since we are never going to get another Elite Spec and this probably won't stop whine about Mesmer that will eventually seep into PvE patch notes.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    I crunched some numbers and new GS trait might actually lower damage for example, kekW

    I'm interested how, the berserker nerf seems stupid considering they claimed they were trying to buff Greatsword.

    Yes, it's very interesting how they have removed Mirage from competitive modes without touch it in PvE. Very elegant!!! Very simple. Leave it with a single dodge nerfing its defensive and ofensive capability, remove the stunbreak and laugh how clunky it is now. Another one to the trash with Chronomancer. As i have readed in some posts, mirrors aren't the solution as you usually can't reach them at the right time and distract you more than helps. If they were so useful they'd have nerfed them too. Anyways, with the improvements in other professions, even Mirage in PvE will be subpar now. Only for clean trash moves with the runes that recharge endurance and watch some nice numbers from confusion in few bosses, that is all. Well, that and the portal!!!!! BUT BUT BUT we have a PORTAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I wonder how the balance team accomplish to encourage me each time more and more to play other professions. Amazing! Well, at least i'll have some fun finding new builds to other professions as for my PvE Mirage nothing will change. Of course, i'll add our fellow profession to the blacklist of competitive modes after the next balance patch as i already did with Chronomancer, even if the core mesmer could work on low-medium ranks, it'll probably be obliterated against the untouchable gods. As Chaos, etc, was already nerfed. Sadly that seems the reality. We'll see in the final patch notes how we end...

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Levetty.1279
    I ment the gs2, not the berserker, and I didnt read the trait properly, the -25% damage only affects gs4, not gs2.
    normally gs2 applies its full damage for each hit it does, now its damage goes down with each bounce. and since it bounces 6 times with trait, later bounces will be reduced by insane ammounts of damage. But its propably fine since its base damage wasnt lowered same as other classes did.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It’s clear they want Mirage to use mirrors created from abilities to dodge. Which I honestly get on their thought process. The big problem for me is that they formulated these changes without thinking about the current state of traits and utilities.

    For instance, Jaunt is two charges 450 units when it used to be three. Take away a dodge, give us back the original Jaunt (as an example).

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @phokus.8934 said:

    It’s clear they want Mirage to use mirrors created from abilities to dodge. Which I honestly get on their thought process. The big problem for me is that they formulated these changes without thinking about the current state of traits and utilities.

    For instance, Jaunt is two charges 450 units when it used to be three. Take away a dodge, give us back the original Jaunt (as an example).

    Even more importantly, Mirage becomes way too dependend on Mirage skills. It reduces potantial synergy with baseline Mesmer considering we don't have any options to, for example, refill Endurance like Thieves. It's not that I'm against trade offs. I'm all for it. But reducing the innate evasiveness on an evasive spec feels weird. If you really feel the need, maybe not limit build diversity while doing it? I'd rather see Mirage Mirrors go but that's a lot more work, of course.

    Some thoughts on Mesmer changes:

    • Ranged Mesmer through Domination: I like the idea. The approach is a bit surprising, though. It's not like Mirror Blade hasn't caused any issues with bursty set ups in the past. I'd rather see Mind Stab being more useful overall. I'm also iffy about the boon removal being linked to the projectile on pBerserker.
    • Vicious Expression: I do like it. Pitty, you can't trait it with Power Block to go for a Lockdown/Punishing build. That being said, both Necromancer and Spellbreaker are still much better at dealing with boons than Mesmers.
    • Quickness: We got quite some nerfs on all traits. Not sure how valid those traits will be outside of PvE.
    • Superspeed: In contrast to Weaver or for Engineer Mesmers don't really gain too many benefits out of Superspeed. I never cared for the new Master of Manipulation. Now, I will care even less.
    • Chrono-Shatters: Still so inconvenient I won't touch it unless I want to play a mindless Phantasm build in PvE.
    • Sword MH: Its damage was on the lower side already. I wished we didn't get a 50% shave there.

    Overall thoughts:

    • Damage: I do like the nerfs on the damage side at least for PvP. Not so sure about WvW because I rarely play it.
    • Passive traits: I do like those 300s CD traits. However, traits like Desperate Decoy were aweful anyway. Different story for Warrior stances, though.

    Overall, I'm not as excited by the changes overall as I hoped (not talking about just Mesmer here). But I guess you have to start somewhere even if it is just by tuning down numbers?

  • Cpt Crunch.7058Cpt Crunch.7058 Member ✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    Currently the drawback to having such a powerful dodge mechanic is the lack of mobility. Why doesn't Anet just double down on it and remove the super-speed entirely with movement speed only coming from other skills/boons?
     
    This would reward good timing, smart positioning, and strategy on whether to use a dodge or use another utility like Blink, Jaunt, Sand Through Glass, Illusionary Ambush, etc. Hell, even give mirage a base -25% endurance regeneration while at it, but the two dodges should be preserved considering that for Mirage it's not just a defensive mechanic but an offensive one too. Maybe give back that 3rd charge for Jaunt to enforce mobility > dodge spam.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cpt Crunch.7058 said:
    Currently the drawback to having such a powerful dodge mechanic is the lack of mobility. Why doesn't Anet just double down on it and remove the super-speed entirely with movement speed only coming from other skills/boons? This would reward good timing, smart positioning, and strategy on whether to use a dodge or use another utility like Blink, Jaunt, Sand Through Glass, Illusionary Ambush, etc.? Hell, even give mirage a base -25% endurance regeneration while at it, but the two dodges should be preserved considering that for Mirage it's not just a defensive mechanic but an offensive one too. Maybe give back that 3rd charge for Jaunt to enforce mobility > dodge spam.

    becouse removing superspeed from mirage cloak would be a buff?
    mirage uses 2 traits as its "mechanic" meaning we lose 1 trait that other especs dont lose.

  • Cpt Crunch.7058Cpt Crunch.7058 Member ✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    becouse removing superspeed from mirage cloak would be a buff?
    mirage uses 2 traits as its "mechanic" meaning we lose 1 trait that other especs dont lose.

    True, but having a mechanic as strong as it is would be enough considering all the other changes happening. Good opportunity to make Infinite Horizon into that minor grandmaster trait I've seen suggested many times. Create a new grandmaster trait to replace the shift of Infinite Horizon into the minor slot. Could make balancing Mirage easier since now there's a common baseline to work with and make choosing a grandmaster something worthwhile rather than being forced to feel like there's only one viable trait.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cpt Crunch.7058 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    becouse removing superspeed from mirage cloak would be a buff?
    mirage uses 2 traits as its "mechanic" meaning we lose 1 trait that other especs dont lose.


    True, but having a mechanic as strong as it is would be enough considering all the other changes happening. Good opportunity to make Infinite Horizon into that minor grandmaster trait I've seen suggested many times. Create a new grandmaster trait to replace the shift of Infinite Horizon into the minor slot. Could make balancing Mirage easier since now there's a common baseline to work with.

    I doubt they want to balance mirage, they want to put it in the hole along with druid and chrono and forget it.
    core is the only hope now lol

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @madrono.9468 said:
    Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes

    at least have the decency to say that you are going to include a tradeoff for the mirage in the patch

    Trade of you can still perform any skills. Heuhue

  • If they bring the -50% endurance, i think its time for me to quit this.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Senqu.8054 said:
    If they bring the -50% endurance, i think its time for me to quit this.

    Ive spent a lot of time/gold/energy into my mirage. Using a unique build that was nerfed slightly bit by bit over time. Looking at the changes, the endurance change is what would hit very hard, harder than all the DPS nerfs. Where all the damage is getting nerfed all around, DAMAGE wise it may balance itself out (still as strong as before in comparison).
    I could see if endurance is altered for Mirage, a lot of people will move away from Mirage and potentially kill the spec.

    However time will tell, I need to remain positive :)

    Last time I experienced a hard nref to a build/class like this I took a break and was lost on finding a new class for a while (Scrapper gyros used to make a field when destroyed that dazed anyone in it)

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    with the gs2 cd decrease and illusions you can gs2 + mind wreck every 5sec.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    with the gs2 cd decrease and illusions you can gs2 + mind wreck every 5sec.

    pve change, also f1 doesnt do much damage anyways

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    with the gs2 cd decrease and illusions you can gs2 + mind wreck every 5sec.

    pve change, also f1 doesnt do much damage anyways

    uh no considering its a buff overall and most everyone else got their damage cut by at least 30%. gs2 1.8 + mind wreck 1.0 x 2 every 5 sec is a lot of damage in this upcoming patch.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    with the gs2 cd decrease and illusions you can gs2 + mind wreck every 5sec.

    pve change, also f1 doesnt do much damage anyways

    uh no considering its a buff overall and most everyone else got their damage cut by at least 30%. gs2 1.8 + mind wreck 1.0 x 2 every 5 sec is a lot of damage in this upcoming patch.

    didnt read patch for others, did others get nerfed in pve too?
    cd reduction is PVE only
    its also meaningless since you cat have illusions as GS mesmer.
    you need domi and dueling.