Thanks Anet

For making tempest healer completely unviable.

This spells the death of WvW I can just see it now

All classes will be nerfed to the ground, not only elem/tempest; except for condi. We'll see Condi bunker everywhere.

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:All classes will be nerfed to the ground, not only elem/tempest; except for condi. We'll see Condi bunker everywhere.

Have you seen the patch notes for heal tempest? It is completely gutted. Geyser Rez is gone, and al the healing coefficients have been cut so bad that it will be completely worthless, which is the only thing ele was actually good at

I get that “everything” is being brought down, but these changes are crazy. 6 min CD on gale song? It’s not defy pain which makes you unkillable, it’s the only source of group super speed we have on ele and it’s been completely wiped out.

It will still heal more than core ele did prior to HoT. Which seemed to be sufficient back then.

Everything got nerfed.

They are nerfing Condi, nerfing Power, nerfing Healing.

What they are doing is basically downgrading everyone in WvW to be similar to PvP levels of damage.

All this means is that Boonballing is gonna get more oppressive, and Corrupts more and more important.

WvW is gonna end up with a Boon war every battle.

Power coef and healing base and coef will drop.But for condi : except rare "1 stack instead of 2" in some traits or skills ; Condi is relatively unaffected; it might be even greater for revenant.All I can see after this patch is Bunker build ith condi spam, as power will deal zero dmg and healing won't sustain enough glass-cannon.

@God.2708 said:It will still heal more than core ele did prior to HoT. Which seemed to be sufficient back then.

But we didn’t have scourge back then

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@God.2708 said:It will still heal more than core ele did prior to HoT. Which seemed to be sufficient back then.

And scourge just got its damage completely eradicated. Your point?

@God.2708 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@God.2708 said:It will still heal more than core ele did prior to HoT. Which seemed to be sufficient back then.

Completely? I think you mean barely.

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@God.2708 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@God.2708 said:It will still heal more than core ele did prior to HoT. Which seemed to be sufficient back then.

You mean aside from its shade spike having its damage reduced by 80%, it's dhuumfire reduced by 66%, and demonic lore reduced by 66%? Everything else is core necro (which also had its damage reduced a non negligible amount too). Ele overhealed anyway when specced for it. Now it actually has a motivation to spec pure healing and the ability to do something other classes can't given the heavy CD nerfs on many other classes heal skills which ele staff 1 and soothing mist don't have to deal with.

@God.2708 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@God.2708 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@God.2708 said:It will still heal more than core ele did prior to HoT. Which seemed to be sufficient back then.

Ghastly breech and desert shroud were barely touched. Also demonic lore and dhumfire has a duration decrease, not a damage decrease. Not to mention they are still AOE corona-virus

Anyway, we won’t know what happens till the patch hits... either we will have “perfect balance” which I doubt, or nothing will change...builds that are strong will become stronger and builds that were irrelevant will become more irrelevant. Or the third option, we see something come out that is even grosser than what we had before...we will see.

Tempest healer will be just fine. We still have 10-man shouts. Nerfs across the board - condi might come back as meta and we're very good at clearing them. Unwarranted doom and gloom before actually trying the patch. Please post non-biased feedback in the thread so Cal can make tweaks if needed.

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:All classes will be nerfed to the ground, not only elem/tempest; except for condi. We'll see Condi bunker everywhere.

So the ele class was nerf but got added effect of 10 targets to make up for that nerf. Now that its loseing the 10 target effect AND getting an added nerf to its healing your getting a nerf ontop of a nerf. In effect anet slowed walked a nerf with a buff at one end of the class to hid more nerf effects down the rode. Its like giving up lands to allways make sure you have land to live off of up until your pushed off of a cliff.

@Jski.6180 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:All classes will be nerfed to the ground, not only elem/tempest; except for condi. We'll see Condi bunker everywhere.

Ya, years of balance to try and make heal/support tempest viable in WvW, all undone in this patch.

I think you're over exaggerating here. I admit I only play spvp, but to give some perspective, the healing nerfs are approximately equivalent to losing about 500 healing power if you have 1000 currently. Not great admittedly, but still worth taking when you consider the heal nerfs are across the board, and everyone's self sustain took a hit. You'll probably just need to put more focus on using cc in some of your other lines.

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:For making tempest healer completely unviable.

This spells the death of WvW I can just see it now

Well, the death of WvW was spelled the day they changed stability. The "pirate ships" started from this point and led to what we got now, which isn't really brilliant. Almost all of the patch preview focus on adjusting numbers like the devs are trying really hard to ignore the mechanical issues that need long due fixs. I'll take the scourge as an example, It only really got 2 issues: the damage on shades skills and barrier stacking. Had ANet fixed those, the scourge would have lost it's hegemony in WvW without disappearing completely.

Here, they almost shyly do something about shades skill's damage, leaving barrier in a spot where players will stack even more barrier source to become even more unkillable due to the lowered damage. I'm not even sure that healers will have much work to do in between the barrier uptime. This is the stupidity of lowering damage in front of a mechanism like barrier which don't have it's cap lowered as well (or better, it's ability to stack removed).

@"thepolishman.2348" said:I think you're over exaggerating here. I admit I only play spvp, but to give some perspective, the healing nerfs are approximately equivalent to losing about 500 healing power if you have 1000 currently. Not great admittedly, but still worth taking when you consider the heal nerfs are across the board, and everyone's self sustain took a hit. You'll probably just need to put more focus on using cc in some of your other lines.

I did the "calculation"

1) Geyser resurrection is going from 7% to 1%. That's over 90% reduction with max Healing mods and Healing Power. At most with a double geyser rez, you will now be ticking 1200 Health on a downed ally... Essentially rendering it useless. Geyser resurrection is one of the only reasons right now to take Arcane right now.

2) Overload Water Target Cap reduced from 10 to 5. 50% healing and cleansing Effectiveness gone, and Overload Water is one of Ele's best cleansing abilities.

3) Staff 1 on water would heal for about 1500 per auto...after patch it will heal for a maximum of 800. Soothing Mist is taking a 50% nerf, from 900 healing per second, to 450....and that's TRAITED with Soothing Power and max Healing mods/Healing Power.

4) Gale Song passive went from 40 to 300 second cooldown. They did this on passives for all classes, but Gale Song isn't the same as endure pain or Elixer S...

All these nerfs combined will render tempest healing useless...And if you think Healing Tempest is gonna be weaksauce in WvW, then wait till Spvp, where it's already weaksauce right now.

the only build that was relatively unaffected was condi-cleanse via trooper....but the poultry healing on that build will now be even less. than it already is.healing power and healing mods depend so much on the stats being high. If it goes too low it can't do enough to keep up with the max health pool...so if i'm healing for 75% less than before it just wont be enough to keep up in sustain...So ya, the only thing ele will be good at is CC and Cleanse...and that's it...might as well go DPS/support at this point

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"thepolishman.2348" said:I think you're over exaggerating here. I admit I only play spvp, but to give some perspective, the healing nerfs are approximately equivalent to losing about 500 healing power if you have 1000 currently. Not great admittedly, but still worth taking when you consider the heal nerfs are across the board, and everyone's self sustain took a hit. You'll probably just need to put more focus on using cc in some of your other lines.

Agreed with you here, they may as well just remove this skill altogether. I'm hoping they rework this skill to something else.

2) Overload Water Target Cap reduced from 10 to 5. 50% healing and cleansing Effectiveness gone, and Overload Water is one of Ele's best cleansing abilities.

Didn't consider the number of targets being reduced. Luckily, for spvp at least, the reduction to number of targets won't change anything. I'll also say that, ignoring the number of targets healed, the heal per pulse is going from 637 (displayed) to 515 (displayed) using mender's amulet, monk rune, and water line traited. Note that water overload has a pretty high base heal pulse of 392 which isn't changing.

3) Staff 1 on water would heal for about 1500 per auto...after patch it will heal for a maximum of 800. Soothing Mist is taking a 50% nerf, from 900 healing per second, to 450....and that's TRAITED with Soothing Power and max Healing mods/Healing Power.

Not sure how you were getting 1500 per auto. I only get 848 with mender's amulet, monk rune, and water line traited (678 is the displayed value, which doesn't take into account the multipliers from aquamancer and monk rune). Maybe some WvW thing? After patch (assuming monk rune goes to 5% bonus healing), it will go to 488 (407 displayed). For soothing mist, it will go from 4050 (displayed value) to 2825 (displayed value).

4) Gale Song passive went from 40 to 300 second cooldown. They did this on passives for all classes, but Gale Song isn't the same as endure pain or Elixer S...

Agreed. Hopefully, they will rework all the passives into new traits, because this patch might as well delete them.

All these nerfs combined will render tempest healing useless...And if you think Healing Tempest is gonna be weaksauce in WvW, then wait till Spvp, where it's already weaksauce right now.

the only build that was relatively unaffected was condi-cleanse via trooper....but the poultry healing on that build will now be even less. than it already is.healing power and healing mods depend so much on the stats being high. If it goes too low it can't do enough to keep up with the max health pool...so if i'm healing for 75% less than before it just wont be enough to keep up in sustain...So ya, the only thing ele will be good at is CC and Cleanse...and that's it...might as well go DPS/support at this point

So yeah, the only skills to take a truly 50% hit from this patch are the water overload (but only in WvW, and only if you managed to heal 10 targets at once) and geyser. The geyser hit is particularly harsh since the heal isn't instant and the radius is only big enough for 1 target (that moves out of radius in any real situation). So overall, changes are not great, but not absolutely terrible.

My biggest issue with this patch is that it mostly went after healing coefficients and not base healing. IMO, it should have been a more even split, so that people can actually get some value from speccing in healing power. I'm with you in that I'm not sure whether speccing in healing power is going to give much value anymore.

Look on the bright side.... Auras might look good again. /s

Huh. I actually switched (or will switch) from Medi Scrapper to support tempest with the patch.

Tempest has still 10man Auras.

Tempest has still amazing condi cleanse.

It even got blind spam support last patch.

What not good anymore is hyper focused support ala 2k healpower.

But thats true on all support

Also staff was never good on support tempest in the first place.

@thepolishman.2348 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@thepolishman.2348 said:I think you're over exaggerating here. I admit I only play spvp, but to give some perspective, the healing nerfs are approximately equivalent to losing about 500 healing power if you have 1000 currently. Not great admittedly, but still worth taking when you consider the heal nerfs are across the board, and everyone's self sustain took a hit. You'll probably just need to put more focus on using cc in some of your other lines.

2) Overload Water Target Cap reduced from 10 to 5. 50% healing and cleansing Effectiveness gone, and Overload Water is one of Ele's best cleansing abilities.

3) Staff 1 on water would heal for about 1500 per auto...after patch it will heal for a maximum of 800. Soothing Mist is taking a 50% nerf, from 900 healing per second, to 450....and that's TRAITED with Soothing Power and max Healing mods/Healing Power.

4) Gale Song passive went from 40 to 300 second cooldown. They did this on passives for all classes, but Gale Song isn't the same as endure pain or Elixer S...

All these nerfs combined will render tempest healing useless...And if you think Healing Tempest is gonna be weaksauce in WvW, then wait till Spvp, where it's already weaksauce right now.

the only build that was relatively unaffected was condi-cleanse via trooper....but the poultry healing on that build will now be even less. than it already is.healing power and healing mods depend so much on the stats being high. If it goes too low it can't do enough to keep up with the max health pool...so if i'm healing for 75% less than before it just wont be enough to keep up in sustain...So ya, the only thing ele will be good at is CC and Cleanse...and that's it...might as well go DPS/support at this point

You can get much higher than 800 healing on water blast, you just didn’t factor in healing mods. It goes up to 1500, likewise soothing mist can hit nearly 10k (950 per tick)

But to be clear what made support tempest good was the fact that max healing and % mods could bring it up high enough to actually prevent deaths and sustain.

Imagine the scenario with burst damage builds. The reason people ran core hammer guardian was because it could burst someone to kill them. If you blanket nerf everything to the point where bursting can no longer kill someone, there’s no reason to run that build. It’s the same line of reasoning with heal Tempest

@lLobo.7960 said:Look on the bright side.... Auras might look good again. /sI hate to admit this, but I’m actually looking forward to this.

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@lLobo.7960 said:Look on the bright side.... Auras might look good again. /sI hate to admit this, but I’m actually looking forward to this.

Wait, that ugly egg shape was actually useful, since no one barely noticed it...

This patch is setting out a new baseline for everything, balance patches later on will buff/nerf or redesign whatever needs to be done

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:For making tempest healer completely unviable.

This spells the death of WvW I can just see it now

This patch makes tempest healer more viable when compared to Firebrand/Scrapper than it was last patch. Would have been nice if tempest had gotten at least some access to group stability tho and maybe some more sources of magnetic aura. But overall this patch is a big win for healing tempest.

Also even if it died one build of one class dying doesn't spell the death of a gamemode. That's just a ludicrous statement