Is WvW Roaming dead with new balance patch? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Is WvW Roaming dead with new balance patch?

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  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Roaming being dead for years already....

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

  • Blackarps.1974Blackarps.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't think so but you'll probably see a lot more +1s to the fights because they will take longer to finish. Its all going to scale so I don't think any one class will be too deeply affected. You'll still see a lot of thieves, mesmers, and warriors. Hopefully we see more build diversity though and a lot more hybrid builds being meta. Looks like a good patch though so far so that's good for us. Only thing I'm worried about is the health pool still being pretty high for players. This might make organized fights really boring if people find new ways to sustain.

    I also hope they lower the HP of guards so I can still solo camps relatively quickly....also iron guard SMC lord makes me cringe thinking about us all doing at least 25% less damage.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Doo Lally.8594Doo Lally.8594 Member ✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    Sky is falling Sky is falling

    Henny Penny new OP build - confirmed.

  • NO

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    Yes so true!

  • YES

    it’s been dead lol.

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    Sorry when did roaming resurrected? I thought people said it died when Warclaw was introduced

  • NO

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2020
    NO

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

    Is PvDing really something to strive for... Especially when "roaming"

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    NO

    Roamers will obliterate people after the patch. It's back to 2012 with condi thief bs wrecking groups and nobody daring to leave towers (arrow carts don't get nerfed but healing does. Enjoy).

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • NO

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

    Is PvDing really something to strive for... Especially when "roaming"

    You wouldn't think so but "people arrive before we can cat down the wall" seems to be a common complaint

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    YES

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Then just lance them off, if they dodge it and run away odds are they'd manage to do the same on foot

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Gwaihir.1745Gwaihir.1745 Member ✭✭✭
    YES

    Yes because mounts did a fine job of killing it already, but no we dont know how the patch will play out.

    Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds.

    Quality balance changes^TM

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

    Is PvDing really something to strive for... Especially when "roaming"

    You wouldn't think so but "people arrive before we can cat down the wall" seems to be a common complaint

    Those that state that complaint don’t know where to place them.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    NO

    Only thing dead in WvW are ~85% of my foes :trollface:

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • NO

    To me it feels like the high dps runners have the most to complain when they can't do their lil trick anymore and i don't care about them. Looking forward to more interesting fights :)

  • NO

    @SehferViega.8725 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    Please explain me how lower damage and higher cooldowns on breackstun and healing will help a solo roamer against a group of 2-4 players.

    Larger group are made by profession that usually doesn't have high mobility and high evade, the only problem with current meta are mounts that allow 50 players squad to move around as fast as a thief.
    Lower evade, lower mobility, less breakstun: again tell me how this will help outnumbered fights. All these changes only help noob players: less damage, then less you will pay for your mistakes, that's the only true.
    Again:
    1) higher cooldowns = less keys you have to press..
    2) lower damage = less attacks you have to dodge.
    3) More initiative cost (for thieves) = less skill diversity.. you will only spam THE skill that makes damage.
    All these mean less skills needed to play.

    Player's Skills made fights last longer, a fight that last for 20 minutes cause nobody is able to kill the opponent is neither fun: this already happens today in some fights.. with this patch it will be the norm.

    Longer CDs and less "get out of jail free" buttons they have, the better chance most roamers will have. Because most people roamers run into are of much lower skill level, if they were of the same skill, in a 1vs2+ fight, the one will always lose, however if they are the better player, then the other side will spam (waste) their skills in short order leaving the better player who sets up skill use and bursts will have a greater advantage because after the patch you are going to feel CDs much more. In the current state, so many skills do so much or are on WAY to short of CDs or are wholly passive with no skill required.

    You, like many others seem to forget that bursts still have to be dodge or countered, you will not be punished less do to less damage, as healing and boons have also been nerfed. Once live, I would not be surprised to see TTK remaining the same if you exclude the one shot or "one shot" combo builds. And many builds that were known for very high sustain in many cases are getting hit hard.

    1) higher cooldowns = less keys you have to press..

    Same number of keys to press and manage, nothing changes here, however, how you manage them will matter a great deal, as incorrect timing of skill use will be punishing.

    2) lower damage = less attacks you have to dodge.

    Lower damage along with lower healing, nerfed passives and nerfed boons which are a huge part the the current sustain ability of many classes. As such, those burst skills will STILL need to be dodged.

    3) More initiative cost (for thieves) = less skill diversity.. you will only spam THE skill that makes damage.

    So nothing changes here then? Any class you give shared resource management to will be this way, because you will always end up with one skill doing the most work for the amount of resources consumed and as such will end up being the one to always be used for a given situation.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • I suspect +1ing on roaming is gonna be easier with longer cd's and less mobility and 5 man groups with at least 2 supports gonna be able to faceroll on their keyboards without threat cause nothing is gonna be able to burst pressure em anymore.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LionZero.3479 said:
    I suspect +1ing on roaming is gonna be easier with longer cd's and less mobility and 5 man groups with at least 2 supports gonna be able to faceroll on their keyboards without threat cause nothing is gonna be able to burst pressure em anymore.

    Yeah it will definetly make people unable to burst pressure them and be completely unlike todays weaksauce 5 man mini melee train groups with 2-3 guard+scrapper supports that fall like dominos when people sneeze on them, uhum yep.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • I'm glad you agree it's gonna make it even easier for them ^^

  • So no more sitting on the warclaw and waiting for someone to get one shotted? That is roleplaying at its best lawl.

    Will be hard to tell how it actually effects structured fights since there are no guilds or structured fights in WvW anymore.

    Nothing effects the "run when its close numbers, attack when you outnumber them"

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    roaming already died when they introduced warclaws, this is just the last nail on the coffin!

  • kratan.4619kratan.4619 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    Could be that roamer need actual skill now instead of playing cheese to win.

    There will just be new cheese.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hey roamers, bloodlust is going to be more important, be sure to cap ruins more often.

    ^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
    "There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2020
    YES

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

    Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

    Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

    As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Gwaihir.1745Gwaihir.1745 Member ✭✭✭
    YES

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

    Is PvDing really something to strive for... Especially when "roaming"

    You wouldn't think so but "people arrive before we can cat down the wall" seems to be a common complaint

    Those that state that complaint don’t know where to place them.

    How does cata placement correlate to the time to take the wall down? I'd love to hear you justify this one. News flash the cata does the same damage regardless of where you put it.

    Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds.

    Quality balance changes^TM

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    There is a pretty good reason that one of the go to things to kitten about when complaining about the warclaw is how it makes it harder to ninja unguarded towers

    Is PvDing really something to strive for... Especially when "roaming"

    You wouldn't think so but "people arrive before we can cat down the wall" seems to be a common complaint

    Those that state that complaint don’t know where to place them.

    How does cata placement correlate to the time to take the wall down? I'd love to hear you justify this one. News flash the cata does the same damage regardless of where you put it.

    Really? Oh that’s right. You are correct.

    And... please state where I said anything about the catas damage? I’ll wait.

    But let me send you a news flash as well!

    On almost every tower, there are spots outside of Watchtower range. Two catas will do some significant damage before sword pop. Do you need a lesson in this? You can hit me up in game for some training.

    But I mean, you can walk up to one of those walls and show yourself for anyone on the map to see. I don’t mind. That certainly will reduce their response time.

    Well good luck to you!

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Watch tower range needs to be increased!

    ^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
    "There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    YES

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

    Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

    As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

    Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

    Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

    As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

    Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

    You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

    If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

    Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

    As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

    Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

    You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

    If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

    Necro players would disagree with you, ive seen many that could dodge a dismount, but getting away on foot vs a thief, ranger? Lel

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    YES

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

    Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

    As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

    Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

    You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

    If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

    I'm sure that necromancer would have been fast enough to run from that mesmer because they dodged a spear.

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:
    Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

    Except it is, you either fight or flight, if you try to flee while you literally can't then you are just poor at making decissions, you think ill try to run from the thief on my necro? No im not stupid ill fight back. We are talking open map PvP, an engagement happens when one player attacks another and in any such game normally an engagent happens whenever 2 enemies meet, look at other RvR games, games with world PvP, BR's etc.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2020
    NO

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    Necro players would disagree with you, ive seen many that could dodge a dismount, but getting away on foot vs a thief, ranger? Lel

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

    Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

    As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

    Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

    You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

    If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

    I'm sure that necromancer would have been fast enough to run from that mesmer because they dodged a spear.

    So what I am getting here is that the people who hate mounts only play high mobility builds and are a bit salty that they can't gank necros as easily anymore. Great reason to bring back longer travel times and less fights/hour.

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:
    Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

    Except it is, you either fight or flight, if you try to flee while you literally can't then you are just poor at making decissions, you think ill try to run from the thief on my necro? No im not stupid ill fight back. We are talking open map PvP, an engagement happens when one player attacks another and in any such game normally an engagent happens whenever 2 enemies meet, look at other RvR games, games with world PvP, BR's etc.

    Yet it's rarely an engaging fight, I too kill random solo players on weak builds (for stacks/parti if nothing else), but it's hardly why I play WvW. I play it for the engaging fights, which mounts increase the number of.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    YES

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    Necro players would disagree with you, ive seen many that could dodge a dismount, but getting away on foot vs a thief, ranger? Lel

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

    Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

    As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

    Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

    You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

    If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

    I'm sure that necromancer would have been fast enough to run from that mesmer because they dodged a spear.

    So what I am gathering is that the people who hate mounts only play high mobility builds and are a bit salty that they can't gank necros as easily anymore.

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:
    Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

    Except it is, you either fight or flight, if you try to flee while you literally can't then you are just poor at making decissions, you think ill try to run from the thief on my necro? No im not stupid ill fight back. We are talking open map PvP, an engagement happens when one player attacks another and in any such game normally an engagent happens whenever 2 enemies meet, look at other RvR games, games with world PvP, BR's etc.

    Yet it's rarely an engaging fight, I too kill random solo players on weak builds (for stacks/parti if nothing else), but it's hardly why I play WvW. I play it for the engaging fights, which mounts increase the number of.

    I almost never gank, i am always on my own, i engage in PvP 1v1 or outnumbered but i mostly play alone, no squad, maybe 1 other person sometimes.

    Mounts just increase ktrain, ive never seen it lead to fights, why do those poeple choose to play bad builds then? That's their own fault, especially how with templates you can swap builds with a single click now.

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    Necro players would disagree with you, ive seen many that could dodge a dismount, but getting away on foot vs a thief, ranger? Lel

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    Nah roaming is gonna be much better imo. High burst, high mobility and high evade uptime is always gonna favor the larger group so winning outnumbered fights will more often be possible now. (this is from a 2-4 group size perspective which often counts as roaming)

    As for solo, I think it's gonna be much better too as a slower TTK generally favors the better player. In addition to that so much time when roaming is spent just hoping to find someone to fight, so that fight taking a bit longer means you spend more time fighting compared to just running around.

    The main reason i stopped roaming was the amoint of dmg being thrown around by everybody, and everybody and their grandma playing stealth classes, that have ontop of that high dmg AND high mobility, just unfun to play against.

    Ye that's pretty much my views on it a bit simplified.

    A big problem already is the warclaw, getting ppl too quickly to defend and or respawn and run back to the fight.
    I get the feeling that this will get even worse, as you take longer to kill someone, others will have even more time to respawn and walk back, while another one is stalling the cap.
    Warclaw should have never gotten into wvw.

    I find it interesting that you seem to dislike high mobility high burst builds while disliking the warclaw

    Imo warclaw specifically helps low mobility builds (that generally aren't very bursty)

    From my perspective how good WvW is essentially comes down to the more (engaging/challenging /fun) fights/hour I get the better. The less time spent running/sieging/waiting the better.

    From this perspective the warclaw is an amazing addition, I imagine that if one cares more about objectives and less about fights then maybe the warclaw is a negative addition to WvW

    Warclaw just makes poeple skip fights making the fights/hour drastically lower.

    Yes, it makes fights/hour drastically lower by making people arrive to fights much faster.

    Skip all engagements to get to ktrain PvE faster*

    As opposed to before when they'd do the exact same thing, just using mobility skills/invulns instead of a mount

    Except i also have those things so i can keep up while hitting them forcing an engagement, also allows you to slot in extra mobility to be able to chase poeple, many also play glassy builds and don't bother to swap while traveling.

    You have skill 4 on your warclaw.

    If they're "good" enough at running away to dodge it you just know they'd be fast enough to get away on foot, personally I haven't had anyone get away from me cause of mounts yet (that wouldn't also have gotten away earlier)

    I'm sure that necromancer would have been fast enough to run from that mesmer because they dodged a spear.

    So what I am gathering is that the people who hate mounts only play high mobility builds and are a bit salty that they can't gank necros as easily anymore.

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:
    Also it's not really an "engagement" if the other person is trying to run away from you instead of fighting back.

    Except it is, you either fight or flight, if you try to flee while you literally can't then you are just poor at making decissions, you think ill try to run from the thief on my necro? No im not stupid ill fight back. We are talking open map PvP, an engagement happens when one player attacks another and in any such game normally an engagent happens whenever 2 enemies meet, look at other RvR games, games with world PvP, BR's etc.

    Yet it's rarely an engaging fight, I too kill random solo players on weak builds (for stacks/parti if nothing else), but it's hardly why I play WvW. I play it for the engaging fights, which mounts increase the number of.

    I almost never gank, i am always on my own, i engage in PvP 1v1 or outnumbered but i mostly play alone, no squad, maybe 1 other person sometimes.

    You can def gank alone tho. Ganking is what took a very big hit with the release of mounts. Most players who would fight back to such a degree that it was remotely engaging still do (ie 1v1s with a bit better players or 1vX against a bit worse players)

    Mounts just increase ktrain, ive never seen it lead to fights, why do those poeple choose to play bad builds then? That's their own fault, especially how with templates you can swap builds with a single click now.

    Idk I always play in a group size of 2-4 on extremely rare occasions maybe 5-6, not been more even once. We instantly started finding more fights as the warclaw was added.

    Also why people play bad builds I have no idea, but fighting them 1v1 isn't particularly exciting.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • NO

    Roaming died with the first expansion and its power creep. Which led to the current generation of "roamers" - bad players who just get carried hard.
    If anything this might put things back in order.
    Same applies for sPvP, just look at "the top 100". Complete clownfiesta.