Upcoming Revenant Changes (Global/PvP/WvW) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Revenant Changes (Global/PvP/WvW)

Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 1, 2020 in Revenant

Just to help sift through all the other stuff, and to provide a spot to discuss all of these changes. Please don't quote the entire post when adding to the discussion.

GLOBAL

Revenant:

Revenants are seeing a large number of changes in this update. In addition to reworks of both the Devastation and Corruption trait lines we have also revisited several of their skills. Precision Strike has been reworked as an actual melee attack as we felt didn't really make sense for it to be a projectile skill. We have however kept its emphasis on single target damage if you can isolate a foe. Confusion has been removed from various Revenant skills as they didn't really have any meaningful ways to take advantage of it and instead we've replaced them with Torment which can be used in a more cohesive character build.

  • Surge of the Mists: Added a 500ms warmup before the dash occurs. The evasion granted by this skill is active during the warmup.
  • Temporal Rift: This skill no longer inflicts confusion. Increased amount of torment applied in PvE from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvE.
  • Rift Slash: Updated animation to be more prominent. Skill timing unchanged.
  • Precision Strike: This skill has been reworked into a new skill called Chilling Isolation. This skill is a 240 radius circular melee strike that chills up to 5 foes for two strikes. If the second strike hits only 1 foe it does bonus damage. Increased cooldown from 6 seconds to 8 seconds in PvP and WvW.
  • Banish Enchantment: This skill no longer inflicts confusion. Instead it inflicts chill for 1 second and removes 1 boon per hit. Number of hits increased from 1 to 3. Increase PvE damage by 380% (0.25 to 1.2). Damage in other modes increased by 20% (0.25 to 0.3)
  • Phase Traversal: This skill no longer increases damage for your next few attacks. Damage increased in PvE only by 100%. Cost raised from 30 to 35 in WvW to match PvP version.
  • Unwavering Avoidance: This trait now grants vigor instead of stability when evading an attack. The cooldown on this trait has been reduced to 5 seconds from 8 seconds.
  • Determined Resolution: This trait now reduces incoming damage while you have vigor instead of stability. It no longer increases the duration of stability.
  • Fierce Infusion: This trait has been retired and been replaced by Glaring Resolve.
  • Glaring Resolve (NEW): Gain stability and heal when you stunbreak.
  • Empty Vessel: This trait has been retired and been replaced by Contained Temper.
  • Contained Temper (NEW): Gain fury when you disable a foe.
  • Sudden Reversal: This trait has been retired and been replaced by Bold Reversal.
  • Bold Reversal: When you stunbreak, gain several offensive boons and full Kalla's Fervor.

Changes to the Devastation line are aimed at two major areas. The first is that several traits are highly niche such as Malicious Reprisal and Jade Echo. These traits are being removed and replaced with new traits that have more broad uses. The second issue is the opposite, some traits are too similar to each other such as Ferocious Strikes and Vicious Lacerations that they don't offer any meaningful choices. The siphoning traits are a part of this change and we are unifying the siphoning effect into a single buff for the combat log and making it a bigger part of the overall line. The new siphon effect named after Shiro's classic skill "Battle Scars" is a stacking buff that is expended when attacking and is more restricted in its applications but stronger than previous siphoning traits.

Devastation: The Devastation Trait line has been reworked, the new traits are as follows

  • Minor

    • Expose Defenses: No changes
    • Destructive Impulses (NEW): Outgoing damage is increased by 5% for each currently equipped weapon.
    • Targeted Destruction: This trait has moved to the Grandmaster minor slot.
  • Adept

    • Aggressive Agility (NEW): Movement skills remove immobilize.
    • Unsuspecting Strikes (NEW): Outgoing damage is increased when attacking a foe above 80% health. This damage increase is 25% in PvE and 10% in PvP/WvW.
    • Battle Scarred (NEW): Gain 5 stacks of Battle Scars after using your heal.
  • Master

    • Assassins Presence: Moved to the top slot in the same tier
    • Notoriety: This trait no longer grants bonus might when using Legendary Assassin skills.
    • Thrill of Combat (NEW): Grants 1 stack of Battle Scars every second while in combat.
  • Grandmaster

    • Brutality: Switched positions with Swift Termination.
    • Swift Termination: Switched positions with Brutality
    • Dance of Death (NEW): Each stack vulnerability applied to a foe grants a stack of Battle Scars. Battle Scars healing amount is doubled while you are below half health.

Similar to the Devastation rework we are also re-centering the Corruption line around a new mechanic. Invoke Torment occurs when switching legends and causes nearby foes to be inflicted with torment. This ability can be upgraded with the grandmasters based on your preferred playstyle. The boon removal traits have also been removed as we felt that they had trigger conditions that offered little gameplay. In exchange we've added a few new powerful traits with drawbacks as we feel this is in line with the spirit of the Mallyx line and skills like Pain Absorption.

Corruption:The Corruption line has been reworked, the new traits are as follows.

  • Minor

    • Invoking Torment (NEW): When you switch legends nearby foes are inflicted with Torment. This attack is called "Invoke Torment" and can be modified by other traits.
    • Seething Malice (NEW): Gain +120 condition damage.
    • Yearning Empowerment (REWORK): Increase duration of all damaging conditions by 10%.
  • Adept

    • Acolyte of Torment (NEW): Torment deals 10% more damage
    • Demonic Defiance: No changes
    • Replenishing Despair (REWORK): While upkeeping a skill you gain +1 energy regeneration. Additionally you self-inflict 1 stack of torment for 5 seconds every second.
  • Master

    • Abyssal Chill : This trait has moved to a new location in the same tier.
    • Demonic Resistance: This trait has moved to a new location in the same tier. This trait no longer grants vitality based on condition damage. Increased damage resistance in PvE from 20% to 33%. Competitive modes remain at 20% reduction.
    • Pact of Pain (NEW): Conditions you apply to foes last 15% longer. Conditions applied to you last 10% longer.
  • Grandmaster

    • Diabolic Inferno (REWORK): Invoke Torment inflicts burning and poison
    • Fiendish Tenacity (NEW): Invoke Torment grants resistance. Resistance heals you every second it is active.
    • Permeating Pestilence (RENAME): Invoke Torment transfers conditions to struck foes.

PvP

Revenant

Profession Mechanics

  • Facet of Nature

    • Facet of Nature (Ventari): Reduced pulse base heal from 471 to 306. Reduced pulse heal scaling from 0.4 to 0.1
    • True Nature (Ventari): Reduced base heal per condition cleansed from 970 to 323
    • True Nature (Mallyx): Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds
  • Heroic Command: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds

  • Healing Orb (created by various skills and traits): Reduced heal coefficient from 0.15 to 0.075

Weapons

Hammer

  • Hammer Bolt: Reduced power coefficient from 0.95 to 0.633
  • Coalescence of Ruin: Increased cooldown from 4 seconds to 10 seconds
  • Phase Smash: Reduced power coefficient from 1.75 to 1.36. Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds
  • Drop the Hammer: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.01

Staff

  • Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.65/0.75/1.0 to 0.433/0.5/0.666
  • Mender's Rebuke: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.91. Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 seconds
  • Warding Rift: Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.1. Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds
  • Surge of the Mists: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.18 to 0.001

Sword

  • Autoattack Chain: Adjusted as follows

    • Preparation Thrust: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.4
    • Brutal Blade: Reduced power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.466
    • Rift Slash: Reduced initial strike power coefficient from 0.9 to 0.6. Reduced explosion power coefficient from 0.2175 to 0.145
  • Unrelenting Assault: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.57 to 0.38. Reduced might duration per strike from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds

Mace

  • Autoattack Chain: Adjusted as follows
  • Misery Swipe: Reduced power coefficient from 0.35 to 0.233
  • Anguish Swipe: Reduced power coefficient from 0.4 to 0.266
  • Manifest Toxin: Reduced initial strike power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.4. Reduced projectile power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.2
  • Searing Fissure: Adjusted initial burning from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 10 seconds. Increased additional burning duration from 1 second to 4 seconds

Sword OH

  • Shackling Wave: Reduced initial strike power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.1. Increased vulnerability stacks from 8 to 12
  • Deathstrike: Reduced initial strike power coefficient from 0.33 to 0.1. Reduced second strike power coefficient from 2.0 to 1.7. Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 18 seconds

Axe OH

  • Frigid Blitz: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds
  • Temporal Rift: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.01. Adjusted torment from 2 stacks for 12 seconds to 1 stack for 1 second

Shield

  • Envoy of Exuberance: Reduced pulse base heal from 1620 to 1215. Increased protection duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds
  • Crystal Hibernation: Reduced pulse heal coefficient from 0.5 to 0.125

Shortbow

  • Shattershot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.65 to 0.44. Increased bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 4 seconds
  • Bloodbane Path: Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 5 seconds
  • Scorchrazor: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01. Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 1 second

Legend Skills

Shiro

  • Riposting Shadows: Increased energy cost from 30 to 40. Reduced endurance gain from 25 to 15
  • Phase Traversal: WvW will now use the PvP version of the skill (35 energy cost)
  • Jade Winds: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.01. Increased number of vulnerability stacks from 6 to 10

Jalis

  • Forced Engagement: Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.01

Ventari

  • Ventari's Will (Project Tranquility): Reduced heal coefficient from 0.33 to 0.1. Reduced base heal from 613 to 306
  • Natural Harmony: Reduced heal coefficient from 2.25 to 1.25
  • Energy Expulsion: Reduced base heal per fragment from 985 to 739. Reduced fragment heal coefficient from 0.5 to 0.25

Glint

  • Facet of Darkness: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds
  • Elemental Blast (Facet of Elements) Reduced power coefficient per strike from 1.15 to 0.89. Reduced weakness duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds
  • Facet of Strength: Reduced might duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds
  • Burst of Strength (Facet of Strength): Reduced damage bonus from 15% to 7%
  • Chaotic Release (Facet of Chaos): Reduced power coefficient from 2.0 to 0.01. Reduced cooldown from 45 seconds to 35 seconds

Kalla

  • Breakrazor's Bastion: Reduced pulse heal coefficient from 0.7 to 0.3. Reduced initial heal coefficient from 1.3 to 0.8

Traits

Retribution

  • Eye for an Eye: Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced protection duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
  • Dwarven Battle Training: Reduced weakness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
  • Vicious Reprisal: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
  • Steadfast Rejuvenation: Reduced base heal per point of upkeep from 67 to 40

Salvation

  • Life Attunement: Reduced healing power to concentration conversion from 7% to 4%
  • Serene Rejuvenation: Reduced outgoing heal bonus from 15% to 10%
  • Tranquil Balance: Reduced outgoing heal bonus from 20% to 7%
  • Resilient Spirit: Reduced base barrier per boon from 229 to 170
  • Invoking Harmony: Reduced outgoing heal bonus from 20% to 10%

Invocation

  • Spirit Boon: Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds
  • Rapid Flow: Reduced base heal from 500 to 333
  • Song of the Mists: Legend swap skills have been adjusted as follows
    • Shiro: Reduced power coefficient from 0.93 to 0.1
    • Jalis: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.1. Reduced weakness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Increased base barrier per strike from 586 to 879
    • Mallyx: Reduced power coefficient from 0.9 to 0.3
    • Glint: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.3. Reduced burning stacks from 2 to 1
    • Kalla: Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.3

Herald

  • Reinforced Potency: Reduced concentration from 120 to 60
  • Elder's Respite: Reduced regeneration duration from 8 seconds to 3 seconds
  • Elevated Compassion: Reduced base heal from 389 to 292
  • Shared Empowerment: WvW will now use the PvP version of the trait (4s might duration). Reduced target cap from 10 to 5
  • Renegade

  • All for One: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 3 seconds

  • Lasting Legacy: Reduced bonus might duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds

WvW

Revenant

Profession Mechanics

  • Facet of Nature

    • Facet of Nature (Ventari): Reduced pulse base heal from 471 to 306. Reduced pulse heal scaling from 0.4 to 0.1
    • True Nature (Ventari): Reduced base heal per condition cleansed from 970 to 323
    • True Nature (Mallyx): Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds
  • Heroic Command: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds

  • Healing Orb (created by various skills and traits): Reduced heal coefficient from 0.15 to 0.075

Weapons

Hammer

  • Hammer Bolt: Reduced power coefficient from 0.95 to 0.633
  • Coalescence of Ruin: Increased cooldown from 4 seconds to 10 seconds
  • Phase Smash: Reduced power coefficient from 1.75 to 1.36. Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds
  • Drop the Hammer: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.01

Staff

  • Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.65/0.75/1.0 to 0.433/0.5/0.666
  • Mender's Rebuke: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.91. Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 seconds
  • Warding Rift: Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.1. Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds
  • Surge of the Mists: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.18 to 0.001

Sword

  • Autoattack Chain: Adjusted as follows

    • Preparation Thrust: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.4
    • Brutal Blade: Reduced power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.466
    • Rift Slash: Reduced initial strike power coefficient from 0.9 to 0.6. Reduced explosion power coefficient from 0.2175 to 0.145
  • Unrelenting Assault: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.57 to 0.38. Reduced might duration per strike from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds

Mace

  • Autoattack Chain: Adjusted as follows
  • Misery Swipe: Reduced power coefficient from 0.35 to 0.233
  • Anguish Swipe: Reduced power coefficient from 0.4 to 0.266
  • Manifest Toxin: Reduced initial strike power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.4. Reduced projectile power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.2
  • Searing Fissure: Adjusted initial burning from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 10 seconds. Increased additional burning duration from 1 second to 4 seconds

Sword OH

  • Shackling Wave: Reduced initial strike power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.1. Increased vulnerability stacks from 8 to 12
  • Deathstrike: Reduced initial strike power coefficient from 0.33 to 0.1. Reduced second strike power coefficient from 2.0 to 1.7. Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 18 seconds

Axe OH

  • Frigid Blitz: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds
  • Temporal Rift: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.01. Adjusted torment from 2 stacks for 12 seconds to 1 stack for 1 second

Shield

  • Envoy of Exuberance: Reduced pulse base heal from 1620 to 1215. Increased protection duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds
  • Crystal Hibernation: Reduced pulse heal coefficient from 0.5 to 0.125

Shortbow

  • Shattershot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.65 to 0.44. Increased bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 4 seconds
  • Bloodbane Path: Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 5 seconds
  • Scorchrazor: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01. Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 1 second

Legend Skills

Shiro

  • Riposting Shadows: Increased energy cost from 30 to 40. Reduced endurance gain from 25 to 15
  • Phase Traversal: WvW will now use the PvP version of the skill (35 energy cost)
  • Jade Winds: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.01. Increased number of vulnerability stacks from 6 to 10

Jalis

  • Forced Engagement: Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.01

Ventari

  • Ventari's Will (Project Tranquility): Reduced heal coefficient from 0.33 to 0.1. Reduced base heal from 613 to 306
  • Natural Harmony: Reduced heal coefficient from 2.25 to 1.25
  • Energy Expulsion: Reduced base heal per fragment from 985 to 739. Reduced fragment heal coefficient from 0.5 to 0.25

Glint

  • Facet of Darkness: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds
  • Elemental Blast (Facet of Elements) Reduced power coefficient per strike from 1.15 to 0.89. Reduced weakness duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds
  • Facet of Strength: Reduced might duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds
  • Burst of Strength (Facet of Strength): Reduced damage bonus from 15% to 7%
  • Chaotic Release (Facet of Chaos): Reduced power coefficient from 2.0 to 0.01. Reduced cooldown from 45 seconds to 35 seconds

Kalla

  • Breakrazor's Bastion: Reduced pulse heal coefficient from 0.7 to 0.3. Reduced initial heal coefficient from 1.3 to 0.8

Traits

Retribution

  • Eye for an Eye: Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced protection duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
  • Dwarven Battle Training: Reduced weakness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
  • Vicious Reprisal: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
  • Steadfast Rejuvenation: Reduced base heal per point of upkeep from 67 to 40

Salvation

  • Life Attunement: Reduced healing power to concentration conversion from 7% to 4%
  • Serene Rejuvenation: Reduced outgoing heal bonus from 15% to 10%
  • Tranquil Balance: Reduced outgoing heal bonus from 20% to 7%
  • Resilient Spirit: Reduced base barrier per boon from 229 to 170
  • Invoking Harmony: Reduced outgoing heal bonus from 20% to 10%

Invocation

  • Spirit Boon: Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds
  • Rapid Flow: Reduced base heal from 500 to 333
  • Song of the Mists: Legend swap skills have been adjusted as follows
    • Shiro: Reduced power coefficient from 0.93 to 0.1
    • Jalis: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.1. Reduced weakness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Increased base barrier per strike from 586 to 879
    • Mallyx: Reduced power coefficient from 0.9 to 0.3
    • Glint: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.3. Reduced burning stacks from 2 to 1
    • Kalla: Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.3

Herald

  • Reinforced Potency: Reduced concentration from 120 to 60
  • Elder's Respite: Reduced regeneration duration from 8 seconds to 3 seconds
  • Elevated Compassion: Reduced base heal from 389 to 292
  • Shared Empowerment: WvW will now use the PvP version of the trait (4s might duration). Reduced target cap from 10 to 5
  • Renegade

  • All for One: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 3 seconds

  • Lasting Legacy: Reduced bonus might duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds
<1

Comments

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    RIP Empty Vessel. ;-;

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    The empty vessel removal (plus removal of stability in Retribution) is extremely excessive especially since both Riposting Shadows and Gaze of Darkness were nerfed

    Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. Imagine playing Ventari now without that and with Unwavering Avoidance no longer granting stability. Feelsragdollman.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    I'm actually hyped to see more depth placed into Shiro through Devastation, but this further locks Legends together with a specific Traitline and build diversity is being yeeted right out the window.

    Mallyx dealing mainly in Torment is kinda good too, but the removal of Confusion is a little.... Eh.

    Confusion is pretty good for countering those spammy classes with low cleanse like FA and every single Mirage.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • How is rev gonna sustain now? Or am I still supposed to "just dodge"?

  • @Kravey.4563 said:
    How is rev gonna sustain now? Or am I still supposed to "just dodge"?

    You’re just going to save all your energy for the new dumb 40e stun break and autoattack clearly :P

    Also side note, I love how they nerfed Shortbow and Kalla skills as if they needed any sort of changes at all in PvP🤔🤔

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    The empty vessel removal (plus removal of stability in Retribution) is extremely excessive especially since both Riposting Shadows and Gaze of Darkness were nerfed

    Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. Imagine playing Ventari now without that and with Unwavering Avoidance no longer granting stability. Feelsragdollman.

    Yeah, Rev is going to have so few answers to CC now it’s insane. This (on top of all the years of other things being removed) pretty much makes me never want to pick up WVW or PvP again, which is unfortunate since I used to love the modes. Being a rag doll is never fun

    I almost exclusively WvW. From these changes, I see something like core condi Rev gaining major momentum for group play. Mallyx/Jalis; Corruption, Invocation, and Devastation for Brutality or Retribution for Versed in Stone. People still sleep on the spec and I only imagine it only becoming stronger with everything around it being brought down. Also Glaring Resolve is a pretty big deal for condi Rev since it is the most able spec to sacrifice Cleansing Channel, and it solidifies Pain Absorption and RotGD as legit stunbreaks now.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kravey.4563 said:
    How is rev gonna sustain now? Or am I still supposed to "just dodge"?

    When using Shiro?
    Same as always : Use Unrelenting Assault together with Enchanted Daggers.

    Except now with the new GM trait, yu will heal more while under 50% health with the siphons.

    I'm okay with this, because Shiro gameplay is supposed to be extremely aggressive, so whenever someone goes Shiro they have to be on the advance.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kravey.4563 said:

    There is 1 issue. Why are they nerfing core rev for herald purposes? That's totally pointless. Shiro used to be a legend that could make all these mediocre core and renegade builds somehow viable. Now they will extinct.

    Sadly this is nothing new.
    They keep doing this despite the community telling them to stop.

    Now I just track the changes and see what gameplay changes I have to adapt to.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    No more Rampant Vex or Venom Enhancement? With lower power damage on top of that, the shortbow might as well be deleted from the game.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What a pile of garbage. Sure ArenaNet is coasting hard this game towards the same graveyard Wildstar reached.

    Hammer (which has 0 use outside wvw zergs) is now 100% useless. The swords do even less damage than before (power Herald was bottom tier level), but you are still slower than the Warrior and have to pay energy on top on larger cooldowns. And the overall decrease in damage across the game means that in PvP tanks (Revs were always very weak tanks) will reign supreme again (like in the times in which celestial eles were defacto inmortals). So no place for Rev builds in PvP, and bye bye to their role in zergs.

    Time to go back to ESO/BDO...

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    Revenant damage nerfs are LOL.

    Rev was already the lowest damage class in PVP. This is hard LOL. Like I'm not even mad. Dead just laughing.

    They got rid of confusion on rev condi builds, but do they realize condi rev almost completely relies on the confusion proc from the corruption tree to score kills???
    The damage and duration of Revenant condis is entirely too low

    Power Rev is DEAD.

    They even nerfed the burn damage, so like now what is the point of mace #2. At this point the majority of Rev skills are looking like why are they there.

    I have not read the entirety of the patch notes but if they did not nerf other classes as severly Revenant will probably be dead after this patch.

    Not even whinning but this is 'LOL'

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    Revenant damage nerfs are LOL.

    Rev was already the lowest damage class in PVP. This is hard LOL. Like I'm not even mad. Dead just laughing.

    They got rid of confusion on rev condi builds, but do they realize condi rev almost completely relies on the confusion proc from the corruption tree to score kills???
    The damage and duration of Revenant condis is entirely too low

    Power Rev is DEAD.

    They even nerfed the burn damage, so like now what is the point of mace #2. At this point the majority of Rev skills are looking like why are they there.

    I have not read the entirety of the patch notes but if they did not nerf other classes as severly Revenant will probably be dead after this patch.

    Not even whinning but this is 'LOL'

    to condi revs, not really. We mainly rely on our multiple stacks of torment that all last for ~20second per skill. while being able to stack them on 1vs1 to almost 40stacks within seconds.

    Confusion was always.... meh. It was a nice addition, but nothing important.
    And mace could actually be a bit stronger in future. Instead of having a strong short-burn we will have lower but waaay longer burns.

    power rev..... never been alive. Maybe they can screw every other class so hard that rev looks a bit better

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    Herald

    • Shared Empowerment: WvW will now use the PvP version of the trait (4s might duration). Reduced target cap from 10 to 5

    reduced target cap only in wvw&pvp or what

  • finally jalis is good since everything else now is as bad. freedom at last!

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Shogun.7162Shogun.7162 Member ✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    I'm gonna miss Rampant Vex, Venom Enchantment and Burning Inferno. :'(

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not worried about it, I know it's hard to wrap around your mind but what they are doing will introduce a lot of new things most players have been ignoring because they could resort to easier alternatives and that was my problem with most Revenant players out there, because we have a lot of options still to this day but people take Riposting Shadows for granted so hard.

    My word is, CC spamming won't be good like it is right now because it does a big fat 0 damage and there is all sorts of ways fights will turn put given the stability on stunbreak with the addtional effects. Cooldowns have been all increased, decision making will be important and this is why Revenant lost that stunbreak, to keep the other classes having a chance against it.

    I think that in all of this, the only offending skill that would be cancer is Bullscharge, they need to get rid of the evade and give it stability instead so revs can proactively defend themselves against it.

  • Ordin.8341Ordin.8341 Member ✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    this is like 4'th class forum I'm checking and one thing I can only say that no one is happy with changes to their classes so if that was the goal then good job devs :)

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    Devastation seems to have gotten some love, but corruption has me worried. On surface it looks all nice but:

    • passive (minor) 20% damage and duration on torment is gone, and parts of it are dismembered across several traits.
    • Venom enhancement is gone as well.
    • Changes to banish enchantment and precision strike aren't going to make Abyssal Chill good. This trait died the moment they changed Call to Anguish into single chill stack....

    Then again certain things sound nice but we must see their actual values:

    • poison in addition to fire on diabolic inferno. We need better values than current one, as current version is 8s cooldown, while new one 10s at best (legend swap)
    • Replenishing Despair finally does something worth slotting it. I can see builds based on it happening.
    • Fiendish tenacity can help rev get resistance when switching out of mallyx stance.

    That being said compared to necro, corruption rev still suffers in terms of "what do i do with self - applied torment??".
    offesively - transfer it into enemy - obvious choice (Permeating Pestilence)
    defensively - ??? it's just there and that's it. You don't covert it to a boon, you don't get stronger healing cause of it, recharge energy or w/e.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ordin.8341 said:
    this is like 4'th class forum I'm checking and one thing I can only say that no one is happy witch changes to their classes so if that was the goal then good job devs :)

    I think a lot of people are looking at the changes to their profession, seeing that they've been massively nerfed, and not realising that the competition is also getting massively nerfed.

    There do seem to be a few boonsmitings in the mix, but mostly it's a broad theme of making the game less spiky. Since pre-HoT days, we've seen damage go up quite a bit while durability outside of availability of damage avoidance frames and third-party healing has remained fairly steady, making it a game where most players generally go down in seconds once their damage avoidance frames run out, but until they do, there's usually plenty of healing to top up what does manage to go through.

    The goal seems to be to reduce the rate at which damage is inflicted across the board, while also reducing the outliers of healing and damage avoidance, making pressure more than simply a matter of drawing out the enemy's cooldowns.

  • @Shao.7236 said:

    My word is, CC spamming won't be good like it is right now because it does a big fat 0 damage and there is all sorts of ways fights will turn put given the stability on stunbreak with the addtional effects. Cooldowns have been all increased, decision making will be important and this is why Revenant lost that stunbreak, to keep the other classes having a chance against it.

    CC Spamming will still be good; All of those skills still have base values for damage, even if they have .01 power damage modifiers on them, meaning they still do damage, even if it's not a lot. Also, CC Spamming was never what killed people, but the fact that it was possible in a lot of scenarios to lock someone down and hit them with a few strong attacks, killing them. Even with large reductions in overall damage output for all classes, CC chaining is absolutely still a viable, strong strategy that will do massive damage to a target if executed properly.

    I'm okay with damage reductions across the board, but gutting 50%+ of Rev's ability to stunbreak is going too far. Empty Vessel had an effective CD of 10s, so it did make up about 50% of Rev's stunbreak game, especially on non-Shiro variants that were taking Invocation. Additionally, removing the vast majority of Rev's access to Stability (outside of Jalis) means the class has majorly reduced answers to CC now on a class that was already weak to it if caught at the wrong time or in group fights.

    So this moves Revenant's entire gameplay loop across most of its specs towards damage/CC avoidance, rather than having any sort of alternative option. But with increased CDs on UA and Warding Rift, the loss of Precision Strike for kiting, and increased cost/CDs on Riposting Shadows/Gaze of Darkness it seems like Rev is going to have a harder time of accomplishing its only viable strategy (avoidance) now. In light of all the other changes the loss of Empty Vessel is extremely questionable. Rev may end up in a similar defensive position as Necromancer now, but it doesn't have the AoE damage potential that Necro does, so this could potentially leave it in a poor state

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054
    So you're saying Spellbreaker going from Full counter to Tether pull to Bullscharge to Dagger 3 to GS Whirlwind will be effectively the same? I doubt it, there's less might, there's no damage coming out. It's more like a waste of skills while you wait until the spam is done to stunbreak and finally do something against it. Because the intended actions were to damage you and make you waste stunbreaks while now you can just sit back and wait until you find it right to get out of the CC spam. Also Revenant is given Stability on stunbreak, Annulment is out of the game, Dispelling Force does not trigger if nullified by Stability.

    Rangers would CC Spam with Annulment and Gazelle also, there's no damage again now as they waste their control utility for one burst instead of keeping the other CC for later.

  • @Shao.7236 said:
    @LucianTheAngelic.7054
    So you're saying Spellbreaker going from Full counter to Tether pull to Bullscharge to Dagger 3 to GS Whirlwind will be effectively the same? I doubt it, there's less might, there's no damage coming out. It's more like a waste of skills while you wait until the spam is done to stunbreak and finally do something against it. Because the intended actions were to damage you and make you waste stunbreaks while now you can just sit back and wait until you find it right to get out of the CC spam. Also Revenant is given Stability on stunbreak, Annulment is out of the game, Dispelling Force does not trigger if nullified by Stability.

    Rangers would CC Spam with Annulment and Gazelle also, there's no damage again now as they waste their control utility for one burst instead of keeping the other CC for later.

    Obviously there are some exceptions, but generally CC is not the reason people die (in terms of damage), but set up for your higher damage skills. Also CC is still effective and will be increasingly effective in group fights against Rev. Sure, we get stability on stunbreak, but we have no idea how long or how much (and I'm assuming given other numbers it won't be high), and it's obviously not going to be anywhere near as strong as Empty Vessel or Unwavering Avoidance (which wasn't even very strong to begin with). So it still leaves Revenant in a "avoid all CC or die" type situation. Which given the rest of my previous post is a potential issue

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think Shao does make a valid point here. Currently, the CC skills are part of the burst - sure, they may not be the meat of the burst, but they're usually at least equivalent to the damage of spending about the same amount of time autoattacking, so you're not losing anything by throwing all the CC you have available into the burst. Instead, you get to combine dealing damage with ensuring that your victim doesn't have the opportunity to mitigate the damage. After the change goes through, between CC skills being turned into CC-only skills and damage coefficients being reduced across the board, the potential to 100-0 someone while also stunlocking them is going to be a lot lower.

    Does it compensate for losing what was possibly the most important stunbreak? Hard to say at this point, but I do suspect that CC weakness is going to be less of a problem after the patch than it is now.

  • So could someone summarize changes for pve Revant stuff? Will it still be good class for pve stuff including fractals and raids?

  • @Ordin.8341 said:
    So could someone summarize changes for pve Revant stuff? Will it still be good class for pve stuff including fractals and raids?

    Should be a buff for both, condi and diviner.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    The only truly uncalled for change that will screwup the class is Riposting Shadows to 40 energy. Most of the other nerfs that Rev are getting are mostly fine minus a few of the "reworks" and very justified especially since other classes are getting similar tone downs. It's just the RS change that is not only wrong but also bad for how the class feels as a whole.

    A simple way to understand this is to look at Jade winds. Jade winds, completely ignoring its energy cost, is a hilariously overpowered skill. Massive 3s AoE CC that can be made unblockable AND it applies vuln on top of that to make anything that gets caught by it in a teamfight without a stunbreak completely screwed. All on a 5 second cooldown. It's a ridiculous skill. And yet... it hardly ever gets used. In fact, many high ranked games will see a Revenant never touch this skill once for the entire match. This is because at 50 energy right after a swap, using this skill will put the rev at 0 energy right afterwards and thus lose access to most other skills for 1~2 seconds. So 95% of the time you basically kitten yourself by using it . The skill doesn't get used unless the situation is absolutely right or you find yourself with time out of combat. Shiro is already somewhat of a 4 skill legend, and now risks becoming a three skill legend. Feelsbad.

    What this means is that 40 energy is an absolutely insane overnerf that will make the skill near unusable in most circumstances, for much the same reason that other skills 40+ energy rarely get used. Rev gets most of its energy management from swaps, not so much from regen since you usually have an upkeep or two, which means that the closer you get to that 50 energy cost the risk becomes exponentially ( NOT linearly ) higher to use that skill since you would be out of energy for anything else.

    TL;DR is that the closer the energy cost is to the 50 line means using the skill becomes kitten risky due to effectively being a self-silence debuff. In fact, they could buff the endurance gained in riposting shadows from 25 to 50 at the new 40 energy cost, and it would still be an overall nerf. That's how big of a deal 40 energy is.

    If the devs really consider RS to be that broken to warrant this kind of extreme nerf, consider leaving it at 30e and removing the instant endurance gain entirely replacing it with 2s of vigor. That would be pretty heavy handed as well, but at least it doesn't completely kitten how Shiro flows.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ordin.8341 said:
    this is like 4'th class forum I'm checking and one thing I can only say that no one is happy with changes to their classes so if that was the goal then good job devs :)

    I'm pretty happy with how the Guardian lands. I'm not a good player but the current season I'm playing a PvE condi bunker Herald which seems to do well in gold (while only using mace, axe and shield) and most of classes seems to have hard time trying to kill me in 1 vs 1 end even 2 vs 1 despite I don't have any access to stability and the build doesn't use Invocation (so no empty vessel). The next season, using a fully fledged Firebrand Tank I guess I would able to camp in control points for hours (specially in larger ones as in Foefire). But that implies that Rev will jump from being too dominant (two Revs x team was excessive, in a landscape in which some classes had no place to go) to being discarded. In HoT I fled from Guardian to Rev due how boring was to tank/support, and now I'll complete the full circle coming back to Guardian (and some other games with better horizon).

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd rather they cut the damage of CoR by 50% and leave it at a 4 sec cooldown than what they are proposing. Seriously, this will leave Revs spamming 1 with nothing as filler, since you need to save your PS for bombs.

    Damage reductions I can deal with. Negatively changing how the build actually plays I can't. My Rev was originally PvE only, and then they added that stupid wind up to Sword 4, and that ended that toon's life in PvE.

  • So on the whole I like this patch across the board. I play a lot of classes and I actually feel pretty good about all of them.

    That said, removal of stunbreak on legend swap + increased cost to other stunbreaks + loss of stab access in retribution... I'm happy to give it a go and see how it feels with everything else but I can't help but feel like this is gonna leave rev getting perma CC'd into oblivion.

    I'd rather some rev skills were less overloaded and had more reasonable energy costs than having these massively overloaded skills that you can almost never afford to cast because they lock you out of everything else. This is especially bad when said skills are our stunbreaks, a 40 energy stunbreak pretty much says "you can't use any of your utility skills because you won't be able to stunbreak if you do" hence frankly I'd rather see a simple skill that just breaks stun with a reasonable energy cost than have a skill that does 5 different things and costs everything I have.

    That's the only real feedback I have on these balance notes, I'm happy to wait and see how it plays out with the actual release though.

    More generally I'd like deathstrikes 2nd hit to be more reliable (hit in 360 degree radius maybe?) seeing as it almost never hits and feels bad and like a waste of energy because of it.

    Lastly this is hugely optimistic but it'd be lovely if rev skills could be fixed to work the same with action cam and without. With AC on phase traversal and deathstrike don't shadow step towards the target if they're out of range, this is especially annoying with death strike seeing as it still goes on cooldown. Also with AC on you can actually control the direction of riposting shadows when using it as a stunbreak. As far as I know you can't do this with AC off. This is very annoying in stuff like fractals when using your stunbreak launches you of a cliff or something.

    Cheers for your efforts and I hope this patch works as well as intended!

  • Zikory.6871Zikory.6871 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    Seriously, this will leave Revs spamming 1 with nothing as filler, since you need to save your PS for bombs.

    WvW has way to much projectile hate for autos to be truly useful in zerg combat.

    [KnT] Knights of the Temple

  • @Virdo.1540 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    Revenant damage nerfs are LOL.

    Rev was already the lowest damage class in PVP. This is hard LOL. Like I'm not even mad. Dead just laughing.

    They got rid of confusion on rev condi builds, but do they realize condi rev almost completely relies on the confusion proc from the corruption tree to score kills???
    The damage and duration of Revenant condis is entirely too low

    Power Rev is DEAD.

    They even nerfed the burn damage, so like now what is the point of mace #2. At this point the majority of Rev skills are looking like why are they there.

    I have not read the entirety of the patch notes but if they did not nerf other classes as severly Revenant will probably be dead after this patch.

    Not even whinning but this is 'LOL'

    to condi revs, not really. We mainly rely on our multiple stacks of torment that all last for ~20second per skill. while being able to stack them on 1vs1 to almost 40stacks within seconds.

    Confusion was always.... meh. It was a nice addition, but nothing important.
    And mace could actually be a bit stronger in future. Instead of having a strong short-burn we will have lower but waaay longer burns.

    power rev..... never been alive. Maybe they can screw every other class so hard that rev looks a bit better

    This is incorrect. Both sources of confusion were a great counter to spam classes, especially thief. This was also another condi to add. Thieves and mesmers are going to continue to laugh at your torment.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:
    Revenant damage nerfs are LOL.

    Rev was already the lowest damage class in PVP. This is hard LOL. Like I'm not even mad. Dead just laughing.

    They got rid of confusion on rev condi builds, but do they realize condi rev almost completely relies on the confusion proc from the corruption tree to score kills???
    The damage and duration of Revenant condis is entirely too low

    Power Rev is DEAD.

    They even nerfed the burn damage, so like now what is the point of mace #2. At this point the majority of Rev skills are looking like why are they there.

    I have not read the entirety of the patch notes but if they did not nerf other classes as severly Revenant will probably be dead after this patch.

    Not even whinning but this is 'LOL'

    to condi revs, not really. We mainly rely on our multiple stacks of torment that all last for ~20second per skill. while being able to stack them on 1vs1 to almost 40stacks within seconds.

    Confusion was always.... meh. It was a nice addition, but nothing important.
    And mace could actually be a bit stronger in future. Instead of having a strong short-burn we will have lower but waaay longer burns.

    power rev..... never been alive. Maybe they can screw every other class so hard that rev looks a bit better

    This is incorrect. Both sources of confusion were a great counter to spam classes, especially thief. This was also another condi to add. Thieves and mesmers are going to continue to laugh at your torment.

    but that torment is also our heal source, and there isnt much to laugh with 40stacks of torment on them. Also all the clones helps revs to heal beyond narnia. mesmers are my favourite kills atm, since power-ones doesnt do dmg at all and condi mesmers kill themselve

    Also to thieves: if they are good ones, u wont hit them at all ,& every teleport also removes several conditions.
    So whatever u play, good thieves arent killable

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    I will miss the confusion, but being able to chill from 900r will be very powerful. Confusion was a helpful addition, but when fighting a condi Rev in small scale situations, I would just try to kite out the confusion and cleanse/strike after they bust all of their energy on it, so at times it could be easily outplayed. Chill will make it harder for the Rev ro be kited, and the additional torment via Abyssal Chill means the enemy will suffer for even trying to kite. Spammable unblockable chill sounds cancerous tbh. My confusion (heh) is in how the will will work when it says 3 strikes. Will it now be a channel skill? Or does it delay each strike over a short period or time?

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    Cannot wait for trying it out. But I agree with @Virdo.1540 thieves are gonna be even stronger. And Hammer is going to be useless(outside of WvW no use, now dead cuz cooldowns). But overall i cannot wait. But only style I see have a chance to be competetive will be with corruption. Power Herald is gonna be kitten. So lets see.

    Jokaurene

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:

    • Draconic Echo and Incensed Response will both remain too strong in WvW. Both traits should be brought down to the newly desired power level. Draconic Echo should have some WvW-specific split or tradeoff, and Incensed Response should either be removed or have its PvP split moved to WvW as well. Mindless 25 might is the epitome of powercreep and this trait right here is a huge culprit.

    I feel the exact same way as well. This trait gives a little too much Might for such little effort. I think slapping on a 3~5sec ICD would be good enough. Players will still get their 25 Might with various Fury gain through traits and skills, but they won't instant stack 25 Might as easily.

    • Aggressive Agility is pretty hype for any build using Mallyx/Staff/Axe/OH-Sword. In general, I like the re-evaluation of Devastation, but I am curious about the numbers balancing of Battle Scars. At the very least, it seems more engaging and thoughtful, which I do appreciate.

    I hope Battle Scars would at least be somewhat stronger than the current Assassin's Annihilation in terms of healing and damage.
    Dance with Death has me very interested in making a sustain based Power Shiro build.

    • I do fear that the Shiro changes will be too heavy-handed. The nerf to Riposting Shadows is huge. My first impression is that this will push players away from Power Herald and move to core Shiro/Jalis w/ Charged Mists in order to supplement the increase in energy costs (especially with Song getting nerfed).

    It is.
    Evidenced with how other classes are being handled for their utilities or defensive cooldowns, they are smashing hard on any cooldown which previously "did too much" for a single button press (Weaver's ToF for example)

    It makes me fear for the future of Legends and Energy, if the only stopgap measure the Devs have to nerf anything is to increase Energy Costs by increments until it is impossible to sustain it, resulting in an entire rework, or a total destruction of the Energy system.

    • Healing orbs still exist. Please delete them from this game forever.

    Lol.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Removing Empty Vessel and increase energy cost of Riposting Shadows will pretty much delete power builds from pvp and wvw smallscale. This is what you want from change? At the same time we keep Infuse Light like what it is?

    Very big and unnecessary hit for many revenant specs, specially for anything without Glint.

    This suggestion just tells us how little game knowledge decisionmakers have. Im really dissapointed, once again.

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They need to remove energy management and make Rev a CD dependent class like Guardian

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @mrauls.6519 said:
    They need to remove energy management and make Rev a CD dependent class like Guardian

    For some yes, but not for all.
    I would bet to leave the current ones as they are, and improve/used diferent mechanics on the next releases.. meybe current Shiro/assassin needs to be something else diferent from the energy sistem.