Was fun

Riptide: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.33 to 0.1. Reduced pulse heal coefficient from 0.1 to 0.05. Reduced pulse base heal from 165 to 120. Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 18 secondsEarthen Vortex: Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 18 secondsTwist of Fate: Increased ammo recharge from 40 seconds to 75 secondsBolstered Elements: This trait now grants barrier instead of stability when using a stance skill.

As I said many times, ANet has completly no idea how to balance ele. Theyre either randomly buffing it to the edge, or destroying to the moment noone plays it (at least in "competetive" modes such as WvW or sPvP, idk about PvE). Ive looked cursorily over other classes nerfs, some are similar to this, but some are just less damage and making some traits useless so ppl change few traits/traitlines and make same build work again (for example thief, Im calm because I already see how to deal with the patch and that its going to be perfectly fine). They dont need to create whole new thing, they can just modify already existing and happily play it again.

Im speaking as a guy who has 1,5k hours played on Weaver, only in competetive modes (pvping/dueling/roaming). I agree that Fireweaver needed a nerf, but I also mentioned that it should get its damage nerfed, not sustain/mechanics. Now we get this, class with lowest health pool gets ripped off its only stability source. And what ANet gives instead? This:

Lava Skin: This skill now grants stability on initial use for 5 seconds in PvE and 3 seconds in PvP and WvW.

Wow, amazing. We get 3s stab on dual skill. Tbh you couldnt make it more useless ANet. You know whats the point of short stability skills? You use them when enemy is about to CC so you face it, and instead of dodging you burst him. Now, to gain 3s stab you need to switch two elements and then theres cast time and obvious Lava Skin animation. Good job ANet, thats the Weaver we all wanted. The moment Weaver gets out of ToFs (which you also nerfed) warrior can stunlock till the end of the world, and you can just get off your chair, go and make coffee, come back and respawn. Im not even talking about outnumbered fights, those not going to happen even in imagination.

So lets say I agree, evades are painful to play against, constant stability is painful to play , especially when those appear together. So you nerf the only stability source, which is Bolstered Elements, thats kinda ok. But then you also nerf evades (btw change heal coefficient from 0.1 to 0.05, yes this for sure make a huge difference, good job). So...what now? No evades, no stability, no water field. Question is, why would any1 want to play that spec anymore? Whats the point?

Okay, thats sword, but hey, we also have things like FA, dont we?

Obsidian Flesh: This skill now locks the player's skill bar while invulnerable.

Hehe, well met.The problem with ele is, that you cut whole concept of current gameplay, and this class compared to the other has barely any substitutes. It got to the meta after such a long time and was viable, or it was even good i would say! But now I see it as meme class, maybe d/d core for fun will give some entertainment as one of off-meta picks, who knows.

Id like to thank you ANet for creating Weaver. It was fun learning all CDs, mechanics and whole "pianist" gameplay. Time to find new main or move to the next game

They are so utterly clueless when it comes to balancing the game it's unreal. Elementalist is just not allowed to have good talents, or dodging similar to other classes with their blocks and mitigation uptime. It's just not possible.

50% cd increase on vital skills, skills that are FREAKING #2 ON A SKILL BAR, (generally low cd skills).

NO ONE ENJOYS PLAYING A GIMPED, CLUNKY CLASS ANET. Yes balancing is nice but picking the meta build, murdering it to tell you "PLAY THE OTHER NONMETA STUFF" is also not the way to balance a game.

Balancing should never come at the cost of making a class / character / hero / champion lose its identity or feel extremely clunky and unsatisfying to play. Who are you balancing for at that point? For the other classes? So they don't have to deal with something strong possessed by X? What about the ele players in this case? Do you even care about ruining stuff that their playerbase enjoyed?

I'm at a loss for words. This seriously reads like any other balancing rant you will find online, but this is undoubtedly the WORST set of balance changes I have ever read in my life, across several mmos, mobas, fighting games, etc. you name it. These people don't deserve to have a job.

This patch disregards player satisfaction, build diversity, build viability, strength of a class in comparison to others, skill ceiling and how much it takes to get there.

Yeah it's really disheartening to see this over and over and over.

Let's cut base barrier, healing and their coefs, but also lets increase CD of all healing and breakstun skills and traits, remove stab; don't forget to cut all the bonus dmg and might/fury access and duration.50% less dmg + 50% less sustain = 75% nerf. It will certainly help to play different set than vitality/healing.

@Widmo.3186 said:Im speaking as a guy who has 1,5k hours played on Weaver, only in competetive modes (pvping/dueling/roaming). I agree that Fireweaver needed a nerf, but I also mentioned that it should get its damage nerfed, not sustain/mechanics. Now we get this, class with lowest health pool gets ripped off its only stability source. And what ANet gives instead? This:

Lava Skin: This skill now grants stability on initial use for 5 seconds in PvE and 3 seconds in PvP and WvW.

You're overreacting. No evades, no water field? Riptide's water field and evade and the evade of Earthen Vortex are still there. And claiming that Bolstered Elements is the only source of stability isn't true either. Besides Stone Resonance now granting it, Armor of Earth is also a reliable source for stability. You're just looking at the meta condi burst build that didn't use any of those skills in the first place, and project the patch's impact on that particular build onto Ele in general.

And besides needing to switch two elements to access Lava Skin for stability: it has been clear since Weaver came out over 2 years ago, that it requires more planning ahead than Ele or Tempest due to having a global CD on attunements and losing flexibility as a result. Plan a few steaps ahead, and you have Lava Skin ready when needed (or any other skill for that matter). Which you should have realized during your 1,5k hours on Weaver, by the way.

@Patty.3268 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:Im speaking as a guy who has 1,5k hours played on Weaver, only in competetive modes (pvping/dueling/roaming). I agree that Fireweaver needed a nerf, but I also mentioned that it should get its damage nerfed, not sustain/mechanics. Now we get this, class with lowest health pool gets ripped off its only stability source. And what ANet gives instead? This:

Lava Skin: This skill now grants stability on initial use for 5 seconds in PvE and 3 seconds in PvP and WvW.

One thing is right, i didnt see Stone Resonance "buff" giving stab, I overlooked it. This makes weaver position a little better, you switch Primordial Stance to Stone Resonance, so you get 2 stabs + one from Lava Skin instead of 6. Better, but not enough to make it playable vs decent enemy.You get 1,5x cd on both water and earth 2, 18s on weapon skill 2? Especially on class that is supposted to dance around 4 attunements? Yeah, seems good."reliable source", there's a reason why Armor of Earth is not being played, 50s cd with 6s stab, prot and stun break? No thank you, theres no way its going to take place of ToF, Flash or now Stone Resonance. So we stick to 2 stabs, Im not counting Lava Skin because of reasons i mentioned earlier, and this stab is more likely going to be random than predicted.No, Im not looking at meta condi build. I dont like Fireweaver, I dont like any condi build (except HoT chrono, it was actually fun). Im known as Mender or Avatarsword ele. I know how FA, Mender, Fireweaver, Rod and dagger builds works. With those changes, sword is deleted, FA is probably dead in Weaver form. Its either core or none. Or you can still play Weaver and struggle vs everybody, telling yourself everything is okay.

Please, dont talk about predictions. We are not prophets. There's no way some1 can predict when warrior is going to switch to shield and start his CC-chain. There's no time. You would need to stay in fir or earth all the time to make proper use of Lava Skin stab. Except all random usages I can think only about finishing/reviving, thats the moment this stab can be predicted. In normal fight, rather random.

This is something you should have long realized during your 1,5k hours on Weaver, by the way.

Trust me, all HoT seasons I had Leg Divisions and after leaderboard update I was never below Plat. I know a thing or two about this game, and now we can just hope other classes will have same level of deletion as Weaver :)

Why need to nerf healing output AND protective/evade skills? Arenanaet do you understand that this is a DOUBLE NERF for survivability???!!!

It was "imagine ccing a weaver lol" before, we'll see what happens next.

Also,

@Lich King.1524 said:DOUBLE NERF for survivability???!!!

Both power and condi damage in this game are nerfed, so is this a double buff to sustain? Yes, it is. So we are back to square one, which is ok.

Okay but Mirage has reduced endurance by 50 and Engineer can no longer generate stability with corona burst

its all about zerk staff memes now lads.

You can always spec water and earth lines and you get -20% on Riptide & earthen vortex :)

@"MyPuppy.8970" said:You can always spec water and earth lines and you get -20% on Riptide & earthen vortex :)

Till they nerf the cdr they already did that a few times to "make up" for them being in a better places or to have vary effects added on to them. That what they do to the ele class they "buff" its skills and add in a nerf then they revert the "buff" but leave the nerf. This update is no different all the "buffs" of 2 years gone with out any of the nerfs lost.

Every buff they give to ele is a slow walk nerf i do not trust anet to stop doing this.

Without stability from bolstered elements, weavers are going to get tossed around like yo-yos in Pvp.

From the looks of it, boon duration is getting a huge nerf across the board. I don't get why the devs didn't just nerf the duration of stability to make 1-2 seconds. It would've called for skillful timing instead of spamming

Also, primordial stance goes from 25sec count recharge to 20. Which created part of the problem with fire Weaver. And now they're switching it back to 25 sec. And this time no stab!

Very indecisive. And a lot of salty players (eles and non) because of it.

They are basically forcing Weavers to pick 2 Stunbreak skills.

Now that ToF is being nerfed to the point where it can no longer serve as a single utility slot stunbreak, and that Stability is being removed from all Stances, they WANT players to slot other Stunbreaks or Stability utilities or risk getting CC locked.

This means players now have to either :

1. Give up Lightning Flash for a Stunbreak or Stability utility

2. Give up Primordial Stance

I think the entire point of all these Ele nerfs is to force players to either drop Primordial Stance, or up their game and get to keep it.

Primordial Stance is one of the strongest Weaver abilities, and also the main utility (sometimes used with Glyph of Power) which causes Fire Weaver to instant stack crazy amounts of Burning.

So the result of the nerf would probably be :

1. People stop using Lighting Flash for safety, making Fire Weaver mobility drop.
2. People keep using what they were using before for Fire Weaver, but risk getting totally CC Locked and killed.

All this talk about new ballance team, new approch...I heard even ele ,,main " contributed to this one. All I see in upcoming patch that Anet again treats Ele as part of POF powercreep problem. In reality all what this patch does is widening the gap between ele and everything else in pvp. I don't want to say that ele will be dead or not viable in pvp after this patch...but surely it will the most un-fun and frustraing class in gamemode.

@Yasai.3549 said:They are basically forcing Weavers to pick 2 Stunbreak skills.

Now that ToF is being nerfed to the point where it can no longer serve as a single utility slot stunbreak, and that Stability is being removed from all Stances, they WANT players to slot other Stunbreaks or Stability utilities or risk getting CC locked.

This means players now have to either :

1. Give up Lightning Flash for a Stunbreak or Stability utility

2. Give up Primordial Stance

I think the entire point of all these Ele nerfs is to force players to either drop Primordial Stance, or up their game and get to keep it.

Primordial Stance is one of the strongest Weaver abilities, and also the main utility (sometimes used with Glyph of Power) which causes Fire Weaver to instant stack crazy amounts of Burning.

So the result of the nerf would probably be :

1. People stop using Lighting Flash for safety, making Fire Weaver mobility drop.
2. People keep using what they were using before for Fire Weaver, but risk getting totally CC Locked and killed.

60sec* (not 75sec) on new Armor of Earth, 7sec stab. It doesn't even pulse stab so it's really easy to counter with ren, necro, mirage, spb ... (don't forget you'll have less boon cover due to arcane change and boon duration, and other classes nerfs)People will just leave weaver, ot they gonna go back to mender water/arcane with 3 BS and just dance until they die miserably.

@Yasai.3549 said:They are basically forcing Weavers to pick 2 Stunbreak skills.

Now that ToF is being nerfed to the point where it can no longer serve as a single utility slot stunbreak, and that Stability is being removed from all Stances, they WANT players to slot other Stunbreaks or Stability utilities or risk getting CC locked.

This means players now have to either :

1. Give up Lightning Flash for a Stunbreak or Stability utility

2. Give up Primordial Stance

I think the entire point of all these Ele nerfs is to force players to either drop Primordial Stance, or up their game and get to keep it.

Primordial Stance is one of the strongest Weaver abilities, and also the main utility (sometimes used with Glyph of Power) which causes Fire Weaver to instant stack crazy amounts of Burning.

So the result of the nerf would probably be :

1. People stop using Lighting Flash for safety, making Fire Weaver mobility drop.
2. People keep using what they were using before for Fire Weaver, but risk getting totally CC Locked and killed.

They are doing this to all self stab skills but they are leaving most stab support skills just as strong. So your support players can give you stab better then what you can give you self making ppl forced to play classes that they do not want. This is the wrong path for anet to push the game into. It was wrong during HoT and PoF why they think it will work this time is beyond me.

well deserved nerfs, may weaver die and never be resurrected again

@Yasai.3549 said:They are basically forcing Weavers to pick 2 Stunbreak skills.

Now that ToF is being nerfed to the point where it can no longer serve as a single utility slot stunbreak, and that Stability is being removed from all Stances, they WANT players to slot other Stunbreaks or Stability utilities or risk getting CC locked.

This means players now have to either :

1. Give up Lightning Flash for a Stunbreak or Stability utility

2. Give up Primordial Stance

I think the entire point of all these Ele nerfs is to force players to either drop Primordial Stance, or up their game and get to keep it.

Primordial Stance is one of the strongest Weaver abilities, and also the main utility (sometimes used with Glyph of Power) which causes Fire Weaver to instant stack crazy amounts of Burning.

So the result of the nerf would probably be :

1. People stop using Lighting Flash for safety, making Fire Weaver mobility drop.
2. People keep using what they were using before for Fire Weaver, but risk getting totally CC Locked and killed.

The fireweaver build i was using didn't use LF anyway, Glyph had its CD nerfed and Burn nerfed but it is still a stunbreak atleast

@verskore.4312 said:well deserved nerfs, may weaver die and never be resurrected again

this is what gw2 balance has come to KeK

Kind of a necro but here goes...

I don't play PvP. I'm too old and slow (took me 2 1/2 months to figure out my weaver was broken - I thought it was me getting older and slower) and play on a standard keyboard and mouse. I loved, LOVED playing with the Weaver as it allowed me to stay alive long enough to enjoy the game. That's gone now. I'm back to when I first started playing, dying all the time just in PvE. All I can say is thanks Anet for only thinking about PvP and ignoring the needs of other types of players. It kind of makes me feel that if I don't play PvP, Anet simply wants me to find another game to play.

As an aside, the Weaver was my main character, the one I started with, the one I've invested most of my time playing. I had come to love my little weaver, and now she is in traction in the hospital and I don't know if she'll recover. It took me soooo loooong to get used to the build and now I'll have to tinker with some of the suggestions from above, but like I said, I'm old and slow. It seems like my best option is to grab a staff and find a group to hide in. No more wandering Tyria on my own as a couple of veterans can down me once again.

@"Gorkus.7496" said:Kind of a necro but here goes...

I don't play PvP. I'm too old and slow (took me 2 1/2 months to figure out my weaver was broken - I thought it was me getting older and slower) and play on a standard keyboard and mouse. I loved, LOVED playing with the Weaver as it allowed me to stay alive long enough to enjoy the game. That's gone now. I'm back to when I first started playing, dying all the time just in PvE. All I can say is thanks Anet for only thinking about PvP and ignoring the needs of other types of players. It kind of makes me feel that if I don't play PvP, Anet simply wants me to find another game to play.

As an aside, the Weaver was my main character, the one I started with, the one I've invested most of my time playing. I had come to love my little weaver, and now she is in traction in the hospital and I don't know if she'll recover. It took me soooo loooong to get used to the build and now I'll have to tinker with some of the suggestions from above, but like I said, I'm old and slow. It seems like my best option is to grab a staff and find a group to hide in. No more wandering Tyria on my own as a couple of veterans can down me once again.

Hi! I'm not sure what you think has changed, so I'm going to assume you read the 2/25/2020 patch notes and missed the part about nearly all of that applying only to PvP/WvW game modes. Just to be clear, that did not apply to PvE! Weaver is just as strong as ever it was for open world play, and here's a video from a few days ago to prove it (I have a bunch more boss solos, PvP, and WvW all using this fire weaver build since 2/25, too!).

Maybe you are just out of practice? Anyway, if you need some help figuring out where you're going wrong or would like build suggestions, let's talk! Hit me in game or here on the forums and we'll try to figure this out for you.

Hi! I'm not sure what you think has changed, so I'm going to assume you read the 2/25/2020 patch notes and missed the part about nearly all of that applying only to PvP/WvW game modes. Just to be clear, that did not apply to PvE! Weaver is just as strong as ever it was for open world play, and here's a video from a few days ago to prove it (I have a bunch more boss solos, PvP, and WvW all using this fire weaver build since 2/25, too!).

The stability from using a stance is gone, no? Just to reiterate, I now have to retool skills and I'm slow at doing that. I know this is a case of wanting some whine with my cheese, but it took me a long time to get used to playing and I keep getting cc'd where I wasn't before. I apologize if my (minor) frustration isn't worth listening to.

@Gorkus.7496 said:

Hi! I'm not sure what you think has changed, so I'm going to assume you read the 2/25/2020 patch notes and missed the part about nearly all of that applying only to PvP/WvW game modes. Just to be clear, that did not apply to PvE! Weaver is just as strong as ever it was for open world play, and here's a video from a few days ago to prove it (I have a bunch more boss solos, PvP, and WvW all using this fire weaver build since 2/25, too!).

If it weren't worth listening to, I wouldn't have responded with an attempt to help, right?

Alright, so you want to keep the playstyle you're used to, but the loss of stability is an issue? How about sharing your build then? Maybe there's something others on the forums might see that could help you with the specific issues you're having without dramatically changing everything you're used to?

It could be something as simple as swapping out a utility in favor of stone resonance paired with the stance trait. That would give you 3 additional large sources of barrier plus two sources of stability on demand (I have been using this in my PvP/WvW build). But since I don't know what you're working with, it's hard to make specific recommendations.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Gorkus.7496 said:

Hi! I'm not sure what you think has changed, so I'm going to assume you read the 2/25/2020 patch notes and missed the part about nearly all of that applying only to PvP/WvW game modes. Just to be clear, that did not apply to PvE! Weaver is just as strong as ever it was for open world play, and here's a video from a few days ago to prove it (I have a bunch more boss solos, PvP, and WvW all using this fire weaver build since 2/25, too!).

1 stack of stab is hardly a real source of stability the nerf to armor of earth alone was a massive hit to the ele class. Why did core ele have to lose its only good stab skill so weaver could get a build in stab effect that realy only works in spvp or pve kind of environment?