Vicious Expression vs. Cheap Boons — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Vicious Expression vs. Cheap Boons

Vicious Expression (NEW): You and your illusions deal increased damage to foes without boons. Disabling a foe removes 2 boons in PvE, and 1 boon in PvP and WvW.

The synergy of the updated Domination traits are good but in instances (PvP/WvW) where the team has a Firebrand, Guardian, Boon Mesmer (which is unlikely but possible), Herald - classes that have cheap boons available/can stack so many boons in <3s, this trait is useless. The Greatsword boon-strip skills in this update, phantasms, null field, and arcane thievery will probably be enough but will cost a lot of skill slots or because they're a 'ramp-up' or casts/removes boons slow - not be enough to catch players have 0 boons especially against FB Mantras, Chaos Mesmer, Herald Upkeep, Guardian Shouts.

However, I do think that this trait could be viable in "ganking" situations which Mesmers, even before the update, can do; or with corruption scourge/reapers. PvE-wise this is a great increase for Mesmer damage and possibly some viability against Fractals' Vengeance/No Pain No Gain + Chronomancer shatters are still clunky and there seems to be no updates on that, I guess this damage increase could work shrug.

Let me know what you think!

Comments

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    This trait couldve been wonderful if null field was more potent.
    In my opinion mesmer direly needs a glamour trait and a buff on glamours to fight against boons. Otherwise one shot combo vs unaware targets will its only choice for power builds.

    Changes are not that bad as I always hated one shotting in competitive modes. But I wonder what would the result be for mesmer as it's unique properties are somewhat lessened. Giving portal to thief was actually an insult for mesmers in my opinion.

    If we return to the original question it is not easy to find a target without boons as the passive abilities give at least one boon in most situations. And the mind stab boon removal is gone it seems. So it might be useful in pve but might not be that powerful in wvw if you do not have a specific group that aims for boon removal.

    But removing a boon after a disable can also mran that one shot, or at least heavy burst start might be valid. Still it seems really lackluster to me.

  • @EzienZauber.2576 said:
    Vicious Expression (NEW): You and your illusions deal increased damage to foes without boons. Disabling a foe removes 2 boons in PvE, and 1 boon in PvP and WvW.

    The synergy of the updated Domination traits are good but in instances (PvP/WvW) where the team has a Firebrand, Guardian, Boon Mesmer (which is unlikely but possible), Herald - classes that have cheap boons available/can stack so many boons in <3s, this trait is useless. The Greatsword boon-strip skills in this update, phantasms, null field, and arcane thievery will probably be enough but will cost a lot of skill slots or because they're a 'ramp-up' or casts/removes boons slow - not be enough to catch players have 0 boons especially against FB Mantras, Chaos Mesmer, Herald Upkeep, Guardian Shouts.

    However, I do think that this trait could be viable in "ganking" situations which Mesmers, even before the update, can do; or with corruption scourge/reapers. PvE-wise this is a great increase for Mesmer damage and possibly some viability against Fractals' Vengeance/No Pain No Gain + Chronomancer shatters are still clunky and there seems to be no updates on that, I guess this damage increase could work shrug.

    Let me know what you think!

    But now you have to choose between the flat 15% of our Empowered Illusions, the new Bountiful Blades and this Vicious Expression trait. Before the second berserker added damage while you also had Empowered Illusions. At least, Mirage seems to leave the shave in PvE but, at the end, Chonomancer is clunky in all games modes, Mirage now with a single dodge in PvP/WvW, the lose of the stunbreak, etc, is another dead specialization for us. So all in all, we lose. A return to play core mesmer as consolation? There are more interesting professions and specializations out there to consider that. Some of the changes for other professions are really interesting. Our changes are meh. The only consolation that I have left is not to lose the Mirage in PvE, although surely now I will play more often other professions in PvE after the next balance patch. And well, no more mesmer in PvP/WvW for me as i play Mirage and i refuse to play it with a single dodge, Chronomancer is clunky and for old core mesmer there are better and more funny alternatives. Chaos, interrupts, etc, were also nerfed. It seems that core mesmer and portal bot is what remains, plus the PvE Mirage. That's all.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dunno if people realize that CS currently take a hudge part in the "one shot combo".
    Have you try to land a core burst without stunt the target thanks to f3 ?
    Mean that post patch, with less damage and no CS, I can't imagine a situation where you will kill someone in 2 wave of burst on 12 sec CD.
    IMO the only viable spec will be a condi core with again passive gameplay when I read the patch note...

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    this is GRANDMASTER trait. its not worth grandmaster slot
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dispelling_Force does preety much the same thing while being minor trait.
    its just another trait removed from mesmer, never to be seen again.
    If you wanted to have sustained damage meser with gs? GL! you lost cooldown reduction trait.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    damage against boonless foes is stupid, if they want to make it usefull make it deal
    10% increased damage, reduced by 1% for every boon on the foe. then having and removing boons matter.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage against boonless foes is stupid, if they want to make it usefull make it deal
    10% increased damage, reduced by 1% for every boon on the foe. then having and removing boons matter.

    lol 10% sounds useless

    But i agree trait will be useless unless it's like +100%

    // Yanim

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage against boonless foes is stupid, if they want to make it usefull make it deal
    10% increased damage, reduced by 1% for every boon on the foe. then having and removing boons matter.

    lol 10% sounds useless

    But i agree trait will be useless unless it's like +100%

    I bet its gonna be some useless kitten like 10% :D
    and if its going to be good it wont be good in pvp ( everyone and their mother has perma at least 1 boon )
    if the damage is good it will be used as extra % dmg to 1shot people with LOL.

    EDIT
    if 10% isnt good enuf you could make it 20% and reduced by 2% for every boon on someone ( could be too good for 1shoting )
    or even better! every time you remove boon gain 2% damage bonus that stacks for 20s.
    if you keep removing boons you will keep 8-16% dmg bonus.
    but if people keep doding key skills you dont get to remove boons and you dont get damage bonus. but hey its mesmer.
    lets give them another kitten version of other basic trait other class has :D

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    PvE-wise, this trait is meant to compensate all the GS nerfs they just pulled off (to make it more ‘consistent’), and it is likely that GS dps will stay almost the same. It does buff the the weaker variant (domi focus) however, but pChrono’s max dps bench is unlikely to change drastically.

    Without a decent amount of slow uptime in fracs to benefit from Danger Time, pChrono simply deals low tier dps in this content, and would be majorly undesirable/unnecessary even if it has an abundance of boonstrip capabilities.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    damage against boonless foes is stupid, if they want to make it usefull make it deal
    10% increased damage, reduced by 1% for every boon on the foe. then having and removing boons matter.

    lol 10% sounds useless

    But i agree trait will be useless unless it's like +100%

    I bet its gonna be some useless kitten like 10% :D
    and if its going to be good it wont be good in pvp ( everyone and their mother has perma at least 1 boon )
    if the damage is good it will be used as extra % dmg to 1shot people with LOL.

    EDIT
    if 10% isnt good enuf you could make it 20% and reduced by 2% for every boon on someone ( could be too good for 1shoting )
    or even better! every time you remove boon gain 2% damage bonus that stacks for 20s.
    if you keep removing boons you will keep 8-16% dmg bonus.
    but if people keep doding key skills you dont get to remove boons and you dont get damage bonus. but hey its mesmer.
    lets give them another kitten version of other basic trait other class has :D

    Damage buff when you remove boons sounds like an interesting idea.

    // Yanim

  • Big buff for focus power chronomancer. Domi is going to be better than illusions. I am guessing 20% increase since it's grandmaster tier, like thief and necro.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stavros.8249 said:
    Big buff for focus power chronomancer. Domi is going to be better than illusions. I am guessing 20% increase since it's grandmaster tier, like thief and necro.

    it could be good pve change, enemies dont have boons after all.
    but keep in mind that we lose 1 berserker or we lose 15% illusion damage for it. ( if on GS )
    wouldnt be suprised if their " big GS buff change " made gs weaker in pve then focus. would that be hilarious? xd

  • hash.8462hash.8462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    but keep in mind that we lose 1 berserker or we lose 15% illusion damage for it. ( if on GS )
    wouldnt be suprised if their " big GS buff change " made gs weaker in pve then focus. would that be hilarious? xd

    Just to say... GS don't only lose a trait, but also:

    • Cripple on all (2-5) attacks;
    • about 30% damage on skill 2 but CD is reduced by 40% (1vs1 the additional bounces of Bountiful Blades are only useful for vulnerability and might, as the last hit damage will be only 10% of the 1st hit: 100->self->70->self->40->self->10);
    • at least 30% damage on skill 4, we don't only lose a trait but the initial projectile is no longer a boomerang (will hit only once).
  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hash.8462 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    but keep in mind that we lose 1 berserker or we lose 15% illusion damage for it. ( if on GS )
    wouldnt be suprised if their " big GS buff change " made gs weaker in pve then focus. would that be hilarious? xd

    Just to say... GS don't only lose a trait, but also:

    • Cripple on all (2-5) attacks;
    • CD reduction of skill 5;
    • about 30% damage on skill 2 but CD is reduced by 40% (1vs1 the additional bounces of Bountiful Blades are only useful for vulnerability and might, as the last hit damage will be only 10% of the 1st hit: 100->self->70->self->40->self->10);
    • at least 30% damage on skill 4, we don't only lose a trait but the initial projectile is no longer a boomerang (will hit only once).

    it really depends how they program it.
    it could be
    100->self->0.72->self->0.52->self->0.38
    would be extra ¬¬15% damage that way ( for 1 ability ).
    problem is that currently chrono relies on gs4 as main damage source on GS, from waht I have seen its usually about 35% of my total damage, narfing this will be felt HARD.