Reduce functionality of Shiro's Utilities, not UP the Energy costs. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Reduce functionality of Shiro's Utilities, not UP the Energy costs.

DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 2, 2020 in Revenant

Hey there,

I am not a huge fan of Shiro and I don't like the fact that his kit overtaken the Revenant PvP scene. But at the same time I don't think these changes are ing to help Revenant overall.
Jalis' main problem was his huge energy costs. And we are going the same way with the Shiro.

My suggetion: Reduce functionality of Phase Traversal and Riposting Shadows, not increase their energy costs.

Riposting Shadows:

  • Reduce backwards evade from 600 units to 300 (or remove endurane and keep 600)
  • Reduce Fury duration from 6s to 3s, or remove it completely
  • Reduce Endurance gained rom 25 to 15 (or remove it if range stays at 600)
  • 30 Energy Cost
  • or add CD, but keep the current version

Phase Traversal:

  • Reduce range from 1,200 to 800 or 600
  • Reduce Quickness from 3s to 1.5s
  • 25 Energy Cost

What do you think? I personally don't want to find myself not using the legend because of its' huge Energy costs.

Comments

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't use Shiro much personally, but intuitively, it does seem as if Shiro's abilities started off being fairly focused, and then they got buffed with extra stuff, and now they're getting higher energy costs to pay for that extra stuff. If I was to use Shiro in PvP, I think I'd definitely prefer for those skills to be more focused and cheaper so you can use them for their primary purpose, rather than being kitchen-sink skills which end up being too expensive to use in practice.

    I can see why the extra stuff has been added for PvE, and split philosophy means it probably can't be removed from PvP altogether, but I am inclined to agree that nerfs to the effects might be better than pushing up the energy costs.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    They want Shiro players to use their skills with more precision.

    Previously, if yu were being hard focused, yu just swapped to Shiro and spammed Dodge and Riposting Shadows non stop until people are off yur back, and weave in Staff Block and Charge of the Mists if it isn't enough.

    If yu wanted to hound someone, 1200 range Shadowstep with Unblockable and Quickness baked in is pretty kitten strong of a skill.

    But still, I want to see how it feels when the update drops.

    If Battle Scars is as good as Anet seems to be painting it, it would mean when the player ever swaps to Shiro, it's "Kill mode" on, and yu are meant to try and sustain this "Kill mode" through life siphoning.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am pretty curious to see how Battle Scars ends up working in practice. One thing I do note is that Battle Scars doesn't actually seem to have a huge synergy with the Shiro skills themselves - the biggest synergy if you focus on Battle Scars seems to be autoattacking with sword to proc Dance with Death. So it could make for interesting synergy with Jalis or Glint.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    I am pretty curious to see how Battle Scars ends up working in practice. One thing I do note is that Battle Scars doesn't actually seem to have a huge synergy with the Shiro skills themselves - the biggest synergy if you focus on Battle Scars seems to be autoattacking with sword to proc Dance with Death. So it could make for interesting synergy with Jalis or Glint.

    Good point.

    But then again, Battle Scars is a GW Shiro skill, so hopefully they are making it so that Devastation is a Shiro-esque traitline rather than it being a Shiro-support traitline.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    They want Shiro players to use their skills with more precision.

    Previously, if yu were being hard focused, yu just swapped to Shiro and spammed Dodge and Riposting Shadows non stop until people are off yur back, and weave in Staff Block and Charge of the Mists if it isn't enough.

    If yu wanted to hound someone, 1200 range Shadowstep with Unblockable and Quickness baked in is pretty kitten strong of a skill.

    But still, I want to see how it feels when the update drops.

    If Battle Scars is as good as Anet seems to be painting it, it would mean when the player ever swaps to Shiro, it's "Kill mode" on, and yu are meant to try and sustain this "Kill mode" through life siphoning.

    I'm all for precision, but I don't think that giving a legend almost elite-energy cost is the way to go. It sure fixes a lot of spamming problems in a short run. But looking at the bigger picture I'd say that a small CD along other minor changes could do just fine.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    I am pretty curious to see how Battle Scars ends up working in practice. One thing I do note is that Battle Scars doesn't actually seem to have a huge synergy with the Shiro skills themselves - the biggest synergy if you focus on Battle Scars seems to be autoattacking with sword to proc Dance with Death. So it could make for interesting synergy with Jalis or Glint.

    Good point.

    But then again, Battle Scars is a GW Shiro skill, so hopefully they are making it so that Devastation is a Shiro-esque traitline rather than it being a Shiro-support traitline.

    Eh... to an extent, but it is also the sword traitline, and at the moment swords are pretty much the power option for revenants. While often seen that way, traitlines aren't intended to be inextricably linked to a single legend - PvE heralds and renegades who use Jalis commonly use Devastation instead of Retribution, for instance, even if they're not using Shiro.

    I think Shiro probably still can get a bit of extra synergy out of Battle Scars, through applying vulnerability through Jade Winds (if you get a lot of vulnerability stacks of Jade Winds, do you get a lot of Battle Scars or just one?), using Phase Traversal Quickness to autoattack faster, doubling down on lifesteal through Enchanted Daggers and Facet of Nature (Shiro), and possibly using Impossible Odds to get additional strikes down in order to use stacks faster once you have them (although Vengeful Hammers will probably be able to do that too, if Battle Scars doesn't have an ICD). But a lot of it is probably still going to be coming out of autoattacking with sword.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:

    What do you think? I personally don't want to find myself not using the legend because of its' huge Energy costs.

    Shiro was only used in PvP and WvW and I don't think that Rev will fit any role in those game modes after the patch so is mostly irrelevant, as most of the weapon selection with this class.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Pretty much spot on. Shiro/Glint has been meta for ages partially because it just does too much. Upping energy costs to oblivion will just eventually make certain skills unusable.

  • I completely agree with this, I don't want a hugely overloaded skill on top of stunbreak, I want a reliable stunbreak that doesn't cost me all the energy I have, especially given the removal of stunbreak on legend swap. Pretty much anything other than sticking a massive energy cost on our stunbreaks would be preferable to me.

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Well what is a revenant then? Not a tank, not a dps, certainly not a mobile class after the patch and not a proper healer (talking from a wvw perspective) as ventari lacks so much. What is its role? Hammer's shortest cd will be 10 seconds. So that is how they force people to get reneagade/alacrity spam? I think the worst thing for rev in this patch is the removal of empty vessel and ventari / kalla being ignored again in competitive.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @alain.1659 said:
    Well what is a revenant then?

    In PvP I think it could be room for bunker condi Herald, with Mallyx and Glint, and maybe even for core bunker with Mallyx and Jalis, albeit I think some other classes as FB, Scrappers and even Reapers could be stronger tanks/bruisers, totally relegating this class (it will depend of how the changes come together).

    My current PvP build has ~29600 HP , and despite not using Shiro (which have been mostly garbage for a while) or having access to stability or empty vessel the Glint and Mallyx breakstruns are overall enough, except against stunlock thieves and mesmers, and the build is resilient, full of AoE damage and all kinds of cc. The main problem with Jalis is that "lacks" stunbreaks (being in the elite and costing 40 energy units on a 1.25 seconds cast is pure garbage), but Inspiring Reinforcement and Vegeful Hammers are interesting utilities in team play. The lost of HP due changes in traits in the incoming patch will be minimal, albeit I'm not sure of how it will affect the damage (which doesn't matter: I don't feel that dps builds will have a place in this new meta). To me power Herald with Shiro/Glint seems over, for sure.

    Related to WvW, I have no clue why a guild would ride Revenants; main reason before was the not reflectable area damage of CoR, but being CoR so nerfed in damage along 2019, so inconsistent in landing the hits, and now halving its use and also nerfing the damage of the other hammer skills, what's the deal? No reason to run a Rev instead of a Necro.

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    Well what is a revenant then?

    In PvP I think it could be room for bunker condi Herald, with Mallyx and Glint, and maybe even for core bunker with Mallyx and Jalis, albeit I think some other classes as FB, Scrappers and even Reapers could be stronger tanks/bruisers, totally relegating this class (it will depend of how the changes come together).

    My current PvP build has ~29600 HP , and despite not using Shiro (which have been mostly garbage for a while) or having access to stability or empty vessel the Glint and Mallyx breakstruns are overall enough, except against stunlock thieves and mesmers, and the build is resilient, full of AoE damage and all kinds of cc. The main problem with Jalis is that "lacks" stunbreaks (being in the elite and costing 40 energy units on a 1.25 seconds cast is pure garbage), but Inspiring Reinforcement and Vegeful Hammers are interesting utilities in team play. The lost of HP due changes in traits in the incoming patch will be minimal, albeit I'm not sure of how it will affect the damage (which doesn't matter: I don't feel that dps builds will have a place in this new meta). To me power Herald with Shiro/Glint seems over, for sure.

    Related to WvW, I have no clue why a guild would ride Revenants; main reason before was the not reflectable area damage of CoR, but being CoR so nerfed in damage along 2019, so inconsistent in landing the hits, and now halving its use and also nerfing the damage of the other hammer skills, what's the deal? No reason to run a Rev instead of a Necro.

    Thank you for this good answer :) I am sure that torment rev will see some game time after the patch but again it got hit in its ability to put cover condis on the target. And lack of stunbreaks will surely hurt the class as the number of cc in the game is not that much lessened that much. Although jalis/mallyx bruiser seems useful it is not better than any other option.

    In wvw I guess Rev will become a frontliner with condi/jalis hammers but again why take rev instead of other professions? I was shocked to see that there were no changes with kalla summons but again druid and chrono got no love either (and druid lost a stunbreak, lol).