Icebrood Saga felt disconnected with the previous setup — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Icebrood Saga felt disconnected with the previous setup

Slowpokeking.8720Slowpokeking.8720 Member ✭✭✭
edited February 2, 2020 in Lore

The vanilla GW2 actually has a very rich setup of Jormag. if you play Norn, a large part of the stories were about fighting Jormag's minions and Sons of Svanir. The Order and Racial Sympathy stories also has Jormag's minions as the villain if you pick certain choice.

There are also level 80 area to fight high rank champions like Claw of Jormag, things like the portal challenge also showed Jormag's persona to use power to lure ppl. Honor of the Waves were about dealing with the highly corrupted SoS. Plus there were the Dragonspawn in the EoD novel.

Overall the vanilla GW2 stories focus on Jormag next to Zhaitan. If it could continue with those loose ends, the Icebrood Saga could have been great. But right now it seems disconnected with the previous stories. And I don't understand why did they let Charr play such a big part in the story, it should have been Norn focused plus some kodan/quaggan/Jotun.

Personally I think Anet shouldn't have use Mordremoth, the 6th secret dragon so soon, they should have focused on Jormag and Kralktorrik while slowly setup Mordremoth' rise.

Comments

  • How is it diconnected? Which loose ends do you mean?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not sure it is disconnected or at least disconnected in a bad way, but it is a very different direction and feel. I'm not wholly against that because I think what they were aiming for was the right direction even the implementation wasn't as thorough or engrossing as it really should have been.

    The issue with the core version is that;

    • It was put together by a different team. The team now is largely different and they don't entirely share the same vision for the game and narrative as when Colin led a different group of map, lore and narrative writers. A 7 year gap is always going to make a massive difference in tone
    • It was fairly generic - the overall ED themes were broadly similar across all environs. The writers have tried to change that with subsequent Eds (to mixed results)
    • The core stuff was rushed out the door with little forward planning for the future. They just set basic scenarios - and they have carried some of the more fundamental aspects over into the saga

    I'm not sure what specific loose threads you refer to. Can you elaborate further?

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  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    I'm not sure it is disconnected or at least disconnected in a bad way, but it is a very different direction and feel. I'm not wholly against that because I think what they were aiming for was the right direction even the implementation wasn't as thorough or engrossing as it really should have been.

    The issue with the core version is that;

    • It was put together by a different team. The team now is largely different and they don't entirely share the same vision for the game and narrative as when Colin led a different group of map, lore and narrative writers. A 7 year gap is always going to make a massive difference in tone
    • It was fairly generic - the overall ED themes were broadly similar across all environs. The writers have tried to change that with subsequent Eds (to mixed results)
    • The core stuff was rushed out the door with little forward planning for the future. They just set basic scenarios - and they have carried some of the more fundamental aspects over into the saga

    I'm not sure what specific loose threads you refer to. Can you elaborate further?

    Which lacks of build up since there are only 6 episodes and nearly no previous setup like HoT and PoF did.

    The core version did make Jormag very manipulative and lure ppl. It also gave the Sons of Svanir far much more space.

    Not really, the core version could be used as a good setup, the current story was much more rushed.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    Which lacks of build up since there are only 6 episodes and nearly no previous setup like HoT and PoF did.

    From datamining, we have learned there are 9 episodes for Icebrood Saga in total (counting the prologue), which is what I theorized since the PAX reveal.

    We also don't know if Jormag's plot will end with Season 5, or if it will continue into the next plot, like with Mordy and Kralk.

    So you're jumping the gun there, with misinformation at that.

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  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Slowpokeking.8720 said:
    Which lacks of build up since there are only 6 episodes and nearly no previous setup like HoT and PoF did.

    From datamining, we have learned there are 9 episodes for Icebrood Saga in total (counting the prologue), which is what I theorized since the PAX reveal.

    We also don't know if Jormag's plot will end with Season 5, or if it will continue into the next plot, like with Mordy and Kralk.

    So you're jumping the gun there, with misinformation at that.

    It's still not a big deal since the 2 episodes we've got are very short. The thing is that we HAVE previous setups to connect the story well, it's a pity not to doing so.

    Zhaitan has such a long chain, Modremoth has the whole season 2 to setup plus the HoT story. Balthazar has the LW season 3 and PoF.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In regards to the Jormag story, we have all the open world/personal story development, which is more then can be said for Mordremoth, we also have a sprinkle of additional story in Season 2 with the assault on the Svanir camp as well as the story from Season 3. Now we have a whole Saga of 9 ish episodes to expand on Jormag as well.

  • @Tyson.5160 said:
    In regards to the Jormag story, we have all the open world/personal story development, which is more then can be said for Mordremoth, we also have a sprinkle of additional story in Season 2 with the assault on the Svanir camp as well as the story from Season 3. Now we have a whole Saga of 9 ish episodes to expand on Jormag as well.

    But the saga doesn't connect with all the previous Jormag story well.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Jumping into Jormag and the whole Charr thing feels a little weird coming from last season. But I think it's partially because nobody really expected Jormag outside of the map extensions and "leaks" about Charr content coming into the game. Last we heard of Jormag was just season 3 when it went back to sleep and we assumed it would probably be awhile before revisiting that plot.

    In saying that, I genuinely don't believe we'll be killing any elder dragons this season, least of all Jormag. With the theme of flame and frost, I really don't think we'll be seeing Primordus either, despite the connection between it and Jormag. I feel like the flame portion of the lomo and teasers about it in the Pax trailer and other places is going to deal more with the Charr. Possibly the flame legion and more on the civil war, after Bangar does whatever Bangar is going to do with Jormag.

    Then again, there's more than enough content they could create just based off of Jormag, spirits, Norn, Jotun, Kodan, and Charr that they could have made it in an expansion on its own instead of a living season. I can see why they thought of it as delivering an expansion through living story, because the potential IS there, I'm just not sure that's been reflected in what they've put out so far. So they could wind up pulling Primordus into this season, but it feels like it would just wind up being a repeat of season 3.

    I do find it unlikely that Jormag will last past this season though, and not because of death but just because they will resolve it some other way and move onto something completely different. For Mordremoth and Balthazar it was kind of a subtle introduction, but by putting Jormag front and center at the start, it makes me think we're going to get a plot twist that leads us in a completely different direction. And I can't say I'm overly upset about that based on the current releases and story delivery.

    It's feels somewhat similar to last season, when the first few episodes we dealt with Joko and some episodes felt like they barely progressed the story before it was over, then the next episode we're completely done with Joko and moving onto the next. I'm just not sure how well these episodes would turn out if they tried to change that format up and extend Jormag throughout an entire season, but perhaps Bangar is meant to be the Caudecaus/Joko of this season.

  • @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Jumping into Jormag and the whole Charr thing feels a little weird coming from last season. But I think it's partially because nobody really expected Jormag outside of the map extensions and "leaks" about Charr content coming into the game. Last we heard of Jormag was just season 3 when it went back to sleep and we assumed it would probably be awhile before revisiting that plot.

    By this mentality, literally everything would "feel a little weird" since the last season closed off all of its threads with zero lead-ins to what could be next. So I can't really say that it's all that weird.

    Especially since we knew that while Jormag may have been asleep, its minions weren't, and the same goes to Primordus who's minions we even clash with momentarily in PoF.

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    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Jumping into Jormag and the whole Charr thing feels a little weird coming from last season. But I think it's partially because nobody really expected Jormag outside of the map extensions and "leaks" about Charr content coming into the game. Last we heard of Jormag was just season 3 when it went back to sleep and we assumed it would probably be awhile before revisiting that plot.

    By this mentality, literally everything would "feel a little weird" since the last season closed off all of its threads with zero lead-ins to what could be next. So I can't really say that it's all that weird.

    Especially since we knew that while Jormag may have been asleep, its minions weren't, and the same goes to Primordus who's minions we even clash with momentarily in PoF.

    Well, Aurene did look to me like she flew North at the end of the cinematic. So I'm not overly surprised. I can see where people might be thrown off though, with us having resolved Jormag and Primordus fairly recently and still having another elder dragon that hasn't even been represented yet, especially considering we had these islands just dropped into the ocean even if they are pretty far away.

    I really wouldn't have found us dealing with the deep sea dragon weird at all. If anything it might have seemed a little too predictable. I wouldn't have even found a plot with the Gods that overly strange, considering for the first time in history we've aligned and aided in the ascension of an elder dragon. Which was the main reason they left. Not to mention all of the destruction Kralk did in the mists.

    Jormag just feels a little out of left field in comparison. I mean, sure, Jormag and Primordus' minions are still active, but so are DSD we just don't see them. Frankly, so are many of Kralk, Zhaitan and Mordremoth's, and aside from Siren's Landing we haven't really dealt with the aftermath of what happens to these minions. We could have a whole season alone just dealing with that.

    Truthfully, I kind of thought this season would have been about that aftermath, and what happens to them now that we have a benevolent elder dragon with various side plots being explored, especially with how Arenanet emphasized that we wouldn't be dealing with world-ending plots this season. Yet here we are with Jormag, who is either constantly speaking of doomsday and horrific events to come, or who we're seemingly just rushing toward with Braham to kill, partially because of Bangar's motivations. But in general, I really don't see us killing or even spending that overly long on Jormag. It feels like a half-season, meet in Eye of the North, talk, and have some revelation to push us towards another plot situation.

  • @Slowpokeking.8720 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    In regards to the Jormag story, we have all the open world/personal story development, which is more then can be said for Mordremoth, we also have a sprinkle of additional story in Season 2 with the assault on the Svanir camp as well as the story from Season 3. Now we have a whole Saga of 9 ish episodes to expand on Jormag as well.

    But the saga doesn't connect with all the previous Jormag story well.

    Can you elaborate on that? Why not?

  • If you look at it from the newly gained knowledge that Jormag is a manipulator and a liar, everything about how Jormag was presented in the original Norn zones makes perfect sense. Everyone was just wrong, because that's what Jormag wanted them to be.

    The very basis of the Norn's understanding of the dragon is a lie in fact, as revealed in Aesgir's journal.

  • The previous story is LW season 4, so they focused on connecting it to that.

    Sadely the devs dont put in many references to the core story which is sad.