why are energy costs and cooldowns increasing in upcoming patch? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

why are energy costs and cooldowns increasing in upcoming patch?

Exalted Quality.8534Exalted Quality.8534 Member ✭✭✭
edited February 3, 2020 in Professions

i think anet forgot that revs were never supposed to have big cooldowns in the first place because of the resource mechanic. it’s time they 1) remove energy costs from weapon skills 2) scrap the energy mechanic all together or 3) add cooldowns to thief skills ....

Comments

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because ANet want to increase the "time to kill" in sPvP/WvW. But yeah, ANet have a hard time taking into account the additionnal cost that some other professions have on their skills. Technically this additionnal cost should justify stronger effects but ANet seem to forget this point. That is, except for thiefs... The no CD on weapon skills stay untouched because "reasons".

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Because ANet want to increase the "time to kill" in sPvP/WvW. But yeah, ANet have a hard time taking into account the additionnal cost that some other professions have on their skills. Technically this additionnal cost should justify stronger effects but ANet seem to forget this point. That is, except for thiefs... The no CD on weapon skills stay untouched because "reasons".

    init cost on a lot of thief skills were increased though, so it's ok.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Because ANet want to increase the "time to kill" in sPvP/WvW. But yeah, ANet have a hard time taking into account the additionnal cost that some other professions have on their skills. Technically this additionnal cost should justify stronger effects but ANet seem to forget this point. That is, except for thiefs... The no CD on weapon skills stay untouched because "reasons".

    init cost on a lot of thief skills were increased though, so it's ok.

    But initiative don't rule weapon skills, F skills and utility skills while energy does for the revenant. Ultimately, a revenant is like a thief with a CD on it's weapon skills and an additionnal initiative cost on it's F skills and utility skills. The cost sure is less pronounced for the revenant's weapon skills but I'm sure you understand that it hurt to see that having a extra cost don't get you a stronger skill nor a CD reduction as significant as the thief get.

    The thief initiative cost just limit the spam, it doesn't prevent it. Most thief's weapon skills can be used every 3 seconds with no end in sight due to initiative regen (with the increased energy cost it will push that to what? 4 seconds. It's ridiculously low and won't prevent people from burning throught their ini bar to spam a single skill). The revenant on another hand have to both deal with the CD, an energy regen which is often lower than the expenditure and the legend swap CD which is it's main way to recover energy.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Because ANet want to increase the "time to kill" in sPvP/WvW. But yeah, ANet have a hard time taking into account the additionnal cost that some other professions have on their skills. Technically this additionnal cost should justify stronger effects but ANet seem to forget this point. That is, except for thiefs... The no CD on weapon skills stay untouched because "reasons".

    init cost on a lot of thief skills were increased though, so it's ok.

    But initiative don't rule weapon skills, F skills and utility skills while energy does for the revenant. Ultimately, a revenant is like a thief with a CD on it's weapon skills and an additionnal initiative cost on it's F skills and utility skills. The cost sure is less pronounced for the revenant's weapon skills but I'm sure you understand that it hurt to see that having a extra cost don't get you a stronger skill nor a CD reduction as significant as the thief get.

    The thief initiative cost just limit the spam, it doesn't prevent it. Most thief's weapon skills can be used every 3 seconds with no end in sight due to initiative regen (with the increased energy cost it will push that to what? 4 seconds. It's ridiculously low and won't prevent people from burning throught their ini bar to spam a single skill). The revenant on another hand have to both deal with the CD, an energy regen which is often lower than the expenditure and the legend swap CD which is it's main way to recover energy.

    It limits the spam tremendously, when those skills that used to use 1/3 of your resources now use 1/2 of your available resources. Also, thieves don't have the option to go between 3 extra utility skills like rev does, as their utils are tied directly to their legends. It's balanced.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Because ANet want to increase the "time to kill" in sPvP/WvW. But yeah, ANet have a hard time taking into account the additionnal cost that some other professions have on their skills. Technically this additionnal cost should justify stronger effects but ANet seem to forget this point. That is, except for thiefs... The no CD on weapon skills stay untouched because "reasons".

    They stay untouched? Why are you even talking about things you clearly have no idea about? :D

  • Doctor.1384Doctor.1384 Member ✭✭✭

    If a rev util has to Have a cd then the skill is wrongly designed or the energy cost is too low. Rev has two heals but theyre kept tuned down with this in mind, and in my own opinion I think itd be cool to Have rev heals reworked to where they didnt need to have a cd and instead where regenerative upkeep skills or something like that, shiro heal could cost 10 energy for 1 siphon dagger for example. Rev utils should have been designed with the possibility of repeated casts in mind from the beginning. Weapon skills should also only have cds and have util energy costs appropriately increased. Revs profession mechanic shouldn't be treated as an arbitrary tax for using skills.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For the same reason ini is increasing on thief even though the class is already reliant on trickery traitline as it is. It's a lazy game wide blanket nerfing that's hitting everything whether it needs it or not.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    What Rev needs is utility reworks.

    Riposting Shadows doing too much?

    Remove some of that utility (Remove Endurance and Fury, give it Vigor instead)

    They shouldn't just slap an additional Energy cost and call it a day because it starts eating into other parts of Rev's design.

    Just making Riposting Shadows cost more isn't gonna stop people from using it, people are gonna start running Charged Mist and keep using it.

    It's so powerful it's worth it.

    If a Rev utility is so powerful that not even cooldowns nerfs or energy increases can stop people from using it as a staple, it's doing too much.

    Know which skill that also had this treatment but have the added punishment of having stuff taken from it?

    Impossible Odds.

    Now it might as well only double strike because they removed all other worthwhile utility from it.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    What Rev needs is utility reworks.

    Riposting Shadows doing too much?

    Remove some of that utility (Remove Endurance and Fury, give it Vigor instead)

    They shouldn't just slap an additional Energy cost and call it a day because it starts eating into other parts of Rev's design.

    Just making Riposting Shadows cost more isn't gonna stop people from using it, people are gonna start running Charged Mist and keep using it.

    It's so powerful it's worth it.

    If a Rev utility is so powerful that not even cooldowns nerfs or energy increases can stop people from using it as a staple, it's doing too much.

    Know which skill that also had this treatment but have the added punishment of having stuff taken from it?

    Impossible Odds.

    Now it might as well only double strike because they removed all other worthwhile utility from it.

    Yea give it vigor, so the traitline thats based around vigor gets even stronger after the patch lol, the you will still get fury and dmg reduction, when traited. Genius.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    Yea give it vigor, so the traitline thats based around vigor gets even stronger after the patch lol, the you will still get fury and dmg reduction, when traited. Genius.

    I said to remove Endurance and Fury.
    It will be infinitely better than giving it Fury because right now when yu press Riposting Shadows with a meta build once yu get :

    • Stunbreak
    • Evade
    • Fury
    • 5 stacks of Might from Incensed Response
    • 25 Endurance

    This alone is already red flaggish considering that the skill has basically no cooldown and just requires yu to have the Energy to pay for it.

    Besides, I highly doubt anyone will ever drop Invocation or Devastation on a Herald build, because Devastation is still extremely important for Vuln stack opening and Notority's Power bonus from Might/ Might generation, as well as Stability stripping from Brutality which are all gonna be extremely powerful when Stability is being nerfed across the board.

    Invocation will still be picked for Cleansing Channel because Conditions are still a Rev's worst enemy, and of course, Incensed Response which is still gonna be a top choice trait to instantly get 25 stacks of Might upon setting up yur burst.
    Charged Mists is gonna probably see more play as well, because it single handedly solves Shiro's increased Energy costs just by burning alot of Energy in Glint before swapping.

    And so what if Riposting Shadows gave Vigor which reduces damage taken when traited?
    It's a defensive skill anyway, and far more overloaded skills still exist in the game like Spellbreaker's Full Counter which can Evade, give Protection, cleanse conditions, transfer conditions, reset burst skills etc etc.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    Yea give it vigor, so the traitline thats based around vigor gets even stronger after the patch lol, the you will still get fury and dmg reduction, when traited. Genius.

    I said to remove Endurance and Fury.
    It will be infinitely better than giving it Fury because right now when yu press Riposting Shadows with a meta build once yu get :

    • Stunbreak
    • Evade
    • Fury
    • 5 stacks of Might from Incensed Response
    • 25 Endurance

    This alone is already red flaggish considering that the skill has basically no cooldown and just requires yu to have the Energy to pay for it.

    Besides, I highly doubt anyone will ever drop Invocation or Devastation on a Herald build, because Devastation is still extremely important for Vuln stack opening and Notority's Power bonus from Might/ Might generation, as well as Stability stripping from Brutality which are all gonna be extremely powerful when Stability is being nerfed across the board.

    Invocation will still be picked for Cleansing Channel because Conditions are still a Rev's worst enemy, and of course, Incensed Response which is still gonna be a top choice trait to instantly get 25 stacks of Might upon setting up yur burst.
    Charged Mists is gonna probably see more play as well, because it single handedly solves Shiro's increased Energy costs just by burning alot of Energy in Glint before swapping.

    And so what if Riposting Shadows gave Vigor which reduces damage taken when traited?
    It's a defensive skill anyway, and far more overloaded skills still exist in the game like Spellbreaker's Full Counter which can Evade, give Protection, cleanse conditions, transfer conditions, reset burst skills etc etc.

    My bad, i confused new traits in the changes.

    Anyways, can you please stop writing yu instead of you? It infuriates me for some reason, and its not so hard to write an "o".

    You cant compare a mere utility with a class mechanic, which full counter is btw.
    Not to mention that you need to use multiple traits scattered in different traitlines to achieve all that AND for most of them you actually have to hit your opponent with it, if they negate it you wont get most of those benefits, while rev gets them nonetheless. Just saying.

  • Chungo.3169Chungo.3169 Member ✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    My grain of sand ... I am main rev with more than 10,000 games pvp played (in case this info is of any use)

    I understand that adjust RS and some energy costs, but how they are addressing it is not the right way and I will explain why.

    You will need to use 70/80% of your energy to stunbreak in shiro / jalis / mallyx (glint apart, and Ventari has no stunbreak), after that you will not have energy left to counterattack your enemy, basically you will not be able to do anything. An idea would be to put cd leaving the cost intact, so we would avoid spam and we could do more than just run to basic punches after getting out of a daze. Now the question is ... Does any gw2 profession have this mechanics implanted? Well then being punished without skills for cleaning a stun is correct? Oks, just missing someone say here ltp :)

    Postscript: * RS in pvp doesn't give you 5 power stacks *