Please don't forget to nerf Dragon Banner while you are nerfing all these other skills — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Please don't forget to nerf Dragon Banner while you are nerfing all these other skills

SWI.4127SWI.4127 Member ✭✭✭

It already does way more damage than any other class if used properly. Its damage will be even higher relative to everything else if it doesn't get nerfed along with all the other skills. It will be capable of single-handedly winning fights. Heck, better yet just remove it from the game.

Comments

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SWI.4127 said:
    It already does way more damage than any other class if used properly.

    You mean because the burning isn't AoE capped like a players? Arcdps really needs to have a few tests before it's able to be downloaded.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • I think the nerfs need some nerfs. Er, sure, nerf the dragon banner.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd like an extra heavy lootbag for killing a banner carrier. I get bloodthirsty whenever I see a banner, and even if I die in the process trying to kill them or force them to swap off it, it is worth it every time. Nerfs to DB would be nice, but so often people let the carrier freecast, even when they are extremely poorly positioned. Providing a slightly bigger reward incentive to killing one would ideally make people actually try to use their brains and make them a bigger focus target.

  • Liston.9708Liston.9708 Member ✭✭✭

    Nerf the damage or give it longer CDs. Would be nice if only 1 could be active on a BL at one time, but that probably takes too much coding....

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Agree. 👍

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    Ye would be for the best

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    The banners are a unique element of the game-mode that should be ENCOURAGED.

    I think it's a shame that Turtle and Centaur are so weak that people often ignore them.

    • Turtle Banner: Yes, I know invuln for 15 people for 3 seconds is good, I know bombsell looks amazing - I once killed 20 people by knocking them off a cliff with it - but I still don't enjoy it as much as the Dragon Banner - it's too situational and skills #1 and #2 are horrible to use - the (microscopic) bubble from #2 goes where you BEGAN casting it. What's the point in that? Also, for a defensive Banner, it doesn't do enough against conditions.
    • Centaur Banner: the charge thing is fun but you will probably die using it - the other skills don't work in zerg fights because low target numbers (I know, better than regular target caps, but this literally says it's "A Powerful Banner") and ubiquitous cleanse.

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I'd like an extra heavy lootbag for killing a banner carrier. I get bloodthirsty whenever I see a banner, and even if I die in the process trying to kill them or force them to swap off it, it is worth it every time. Nerfs to DB would be nice, but so often people let the carrier freecast, even when they are extremely poorly positioned. Providing a slightly bigger reward incentive to killing one would ideally make people actually try to use their brains and make them a bigger focus target.

    One might think, judging by your comment, that you've never used the DB. The carrier gets focused not only by the odd ganker here and there, but even commanders will charge towards banner carriers at times, bringing the whole zerg to kill the DB. I think that's good, but it goes against what you say and should certainly NOT reward anything extra since 80 vs 1 is a massive gank.

    I want banners to be tools that can be used cleverly to bring weak sides victory. That's why I believe the devs should spend more time considering the options (i.e. rework the skills), rather than tweaking a few numbers here and there and calling it done.

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think they are way past due for a nerf, but at the same time, a capable commander will spot and mark a banner user for deletion, while a less skilled leader will just let them run wild, so in a way it does reward organization and experience. Meh either way.

  • Swamurabi.7890Swamurabi.7890 Member ✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    The banners are a unique element of the game-mode that should be ENCOURAGED.

    I want banners to be tools that can be used cleverly to bring weak sides victory. That's why I believe the devs should spend more time considering the options (i.e. rework the skills), rather than tweaking a few numbers here and there and calling it done.

    I remember a time long ago when commanders on ALL sides agreed to NOT use banners, for the good of the game.

    One of the core problems in WvW is that game mechanics that can be used by weak sides to make them stronger are abused by the powerful sides to make them not fun to play against. Players that don't have fun don't play.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swamurabi.7890 said:
    One of the core problems in WvW is that game mechanics that can be used by weak sides to make them stronger are abused by the powerful sides to make them not fun to play against.

    That can be said of all competitive play. For example, good players don't necessarily play difficult, piano classes, they play easy and supposedly overpowered ones.

    GW2 doesn't do any handicapping to counter SNOWBALLING (to my disappointment), strong sides get stronger because they own MORE objectives inside which they can put MORE banners to make themselves MORE powerful. I think it's silly, but it is what it is. Perhaps there should be banners that appear at spawn the most stuff you don't own? Anyway, I told myself that I'm done suggesting things so I'm done suggesting things.

    This post contains my opinion.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swamurabi.7890 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    The banners are a unique element of the game-mode that should be ENCOURAGED.

    I want banners to be tools that can be used cleverly to bring weak sides victory. That's why I believe the devs should spend more time considering the options (i.e. rework the skills), rather than tweaking a few numbers here and there and calling it done.

    I remember a time long ago when commanders on ALL sides agreed to NOT use banners, for the good of the game.

    One of the core problems in WvW is that game mechanics that can be used by weak sides to make them stronger are abused by the powerful sides to make them not fun to play against. Players that don't have fun don't play.

    Idk what fantasy land that was, but I can confirm they didn't like them in GvGs (when they sometimes happened).

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Timelord.8190Timelord.8190 Member ✭✭✭

    If they don't nerf this I have zero hope for the new balance team. Banners shouldn't have been added to the game in the first place. It's just bad game design, it's like a mobile siege that has even more damage and more targets. It's LAME!!!!!!!

    My YT- channel: Toxilo

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    The banners are a unique element of the game-mode that should be ENCOURAGED.

    I think it's a shame that Turtle and Centaur are so weak that people often ignore them.

    • Turtle Banner: Yes, I know invuln for 15 people for 3 seconds is good, I know bombsell looks amazing - I once killed 20 people by knocking them off a cliff with it - but I still don't enjoy it as much as the Dragon Banner - it's too situational and skills #1 and #2 are horrible to use - the (microscopic) bubble from #2 goes where you BEGAN casting it. What's the point in that? Also, for a defensive Banner, it doesn't do enough against conditions.
    • Centaur Banner: the charge thing is fun but you will probably die using it - the other skills don't work in zerg fights because low target numbers (I know, better than regular target caps, but this literally says it's "A Powerful Banner") and ubiquitous cleanse.

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I'd like an extra heavy lootbag for killing a banner carrier. I get bloodthirsty whenever I see a banner, and even if I die in the process trying to kill them or force them to swap off it, it is worth it every time. Nerfs to DB would be nice, but so often people let the carrier freecast, even when they are extremely poorly positioned. Providing a slightly bigger reward incentive to killing one would ideally make people actually try to use their brains and make them a bigger focus target.

    One might think, judging by your comment, that you've never used the DB. The carrier gets focused not only by the odd ganker here and there, but even commanders will charge towards banner carriers at times, bringing the whole zerg to kill the DB. I think that's good, but it goes against what you say and should certainly NOT reward anything extra since 80 vs 1 is a massive gank.

    I want banners to be tools that can be used cleverly to bring weak sides victory. That's why I believe the devs should spend more time considering the options (i.e. rework the skills), rather than tweaking a few numbers here and there and calling it done.

    People think the Centaur banner is weak but it's far far stronger than the dragon banner. Dragon banner has niche uses, like destroying siege in both attacking and defending, as well as, obliterating groups that persist on standing in capping circles without moving. Skill #2 on centaur banner does more damage than skill #5 on dragon banner, and it has an 8s cooldown as opposed to 60s, nor can it really be seen coming either. Skill #5 on centaur banner wreaks havoc by knocking people around (and I believe the player is given super-speed while their at it. Skill #1 also hugs the walls when moving down so it can hit people on the gate while the player stands far back untouchable.

    Turtle banner is highly situational (best use is in attacking SMC). But as a general rule of thumb, if a player thinks the dragon banner is better than the centaur banner for fights, the player shouldn't be picking up the banner to begin with. They either aren't using them properly or they're on the wrong class to begin with (which makes up 95% of the cases i've seen).

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Imagine the game mode being so stale that people whine about a rarely-encountered and specialised submechanic.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 16k hours, 27k AP | ♀♥♀
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  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    if a player thinks the dragon banner is better than the centaur banner for fights, the player shouldn't be picking up the banner to begin with. They either aren't using them properly or they're on the wrong class to begin with (which makes up 95% of the cases i've seen).

    Of course, you're welcome to your opinions.

    "The wrong class" is highly suspicious. Please enlighten us as to what you consider "the right class" to be? I can tell you now that nearly all of the classes bring something great to the Dragon Banner, or should I say, "Most classes compliment IT"?

    This post contains my opinion.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2020

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    if a player thinks the dragon banner is better than the centaur banner for fights, the player shouldn't be picking up the banner to begin with. They either aren't using them properly or they're on the wrong class to begin with (which makes up 95% of the cases i've seen).

    Of course, you're welcome to your opinions.

    "The wrong class" is highly suspicious. Please enlighten us as to what you consider "the right class" to be? I can tell you now that nearly all of the classes bring something great to the Dragon Banner, or should I say, "Most classes compliment IT"?

    For Dragon banner it was usually "on interrupt(or CCs) effects ." For turtle it used to be "on protection application" with engie's cleanse traits. I forget what I used for centaur but the stampede thing benefits from "on interrupt effects" too if that ability is still a thing. I guess condi duration for burn (dragon) or centaur's immob? But I don't remember if that applied properly. Even then burn guards didn't need a banner for their burn.

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Gwaihir.1745Gwaihir.1745 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Eh I dont have problems going up against the banners. If it bothers you just suicide in once and drop the guy.

    Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds.

    Quality balance changes^TM

  • Yes nerf this. Also nerf siege.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    The banners are a unique element of the game-mode that should be ENCOURAGED.

    I think it's a shame that Turtle and Centaur are so weak that people often ignore them.

    • Turtle Banner: Yes, I know invuln for 15 people for 3 seconds is good, I know bombsell looks amazing - I once killed 20 people by knocking them off a cliff with it - but I still don't enjoy it as much as the Dragon Banner - it's too situational and skills #1 and #2 are horrible to use - the (microscopic) bubble from #2 goes where you BEGAN casting it. What's the point in that? Also, for a defensive Banner, it doesn't do enough against conditions.
    • Centaur Banner: the charge thing is fun but you will probably die using it - the other skills don't work in zerg fights because low target numbers (I know, better than regular target caps, but this literally says it's "A Powerful Banner") and ubiquitous cleanse.

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I'd like an extra heavy lootbag for killing a banner carrier. I get bloodthirsty whenever I see a banner, and even if I die in the process trying to kill them or force them to swap off it, it is worth it every time. Nerfs to DB would be nice, but so often people let the carrier freecast, even when they are extremely poorly positioned. Providing a slightly bigger reward incentive to killing one would ideally make people actually try to use their brains and make them a bigger focus target.

    One might think, judging by your comment, that you've never used the DB. The carrier gets focused not only by the odd ganker here and there, but even commanders will charge towards banner carriers at times, bringing the whole zerg to kill the DB. I think that's good, but it goes against what you say and should certainly NOT reward anything extra since 80 vs 1 is a massive gank.

    I want banners to be tools that can be used cleverly to bring weak sides victory. That's why I believe the devs should spend more time considering the options (i.e. rework the skills), rather than tweaking a few numbers here and there and calling it done.

    People think the Centaur banner is weak but it's far far stronger than the dragon banner. Dragon banner has niche uses, like destroying siege in both attacking and defending, as well as, obliterating groups that persist on standing in capping circles without moving. Skill #2 on centaur banner does more damage than skill #5 on dragon banner, and it has an 8s cooldown as opposed to 60s, nor can it really be seen coming either. Skill #5 on centaur banner wreaks havoc by knocking people around (and I believe the player is given super-speed while their at it. Skill #1 also hugs the walls when moving down so it can hit people on the gate while the player stands far back untouchable.

    Turtle banner is highly situational (best use is in attacking SMC). But as a general rule of thumb, if a player thinks the dragon banner is better than the centaur banner for fights, the player shouldn't be picking up the banner to begin with. They either aren't using them properly or they're on the wrong class to begin with (which makes up 95% of the cases i've seen).

    uhhhh.... if you're doing more damage with centaur 2 than dragon banner 5, you're using it wrong. I've had that skill hit for 600k+ lol. You tell the tag you have a banner, then pull the enemy map queue to a choke and wipe them when they push

    the immob is 180 radius pbaoe, so it's useless.
    5 is great if you're on a defense spellbreaker and worthless if you're not. it does not give superspeed.
    skill 1 is nice, again- if you're on a spellbreaker since you can still use your hammer f1+f2 to chain CCs. On anything else, you get better value from them just playing their class

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    The banners are a unique element of the game-mode that should be ENCOURAGED.

    I think it's a shame that Turtle and Centaur are so weak that people often ignore them.

    • Turtle Banner: Yes, I know invuln for 15 people for 3 seconds is good, I know bombsell looks amazing - I once killed 20 people by knocking them off a cliff with it - but I still don't enjoy it as much as the Dragon Banner - it's too situational and skills #1 and #2 are horrible to use - the (microscopic) bubble from #2 goes where you BEGAN casting it. What's the point in that? Also, for a defensive Banner, it doesn't do enough against conditions.
    • Centaur Banner: the charge thing is fun but you will probably die using it - the other skills don't work in zerg fights because low target numbers (I know, better than regular target caps, but this literally says it's "A Powerful Banner") and ubiquitous cleanse.

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I'd like an extra heavy lootbag for killing a banner carrier. I get bloodthirsty whenever I see a banner, and even if I die in the process trying to kill them or force them to swap off it, it is worth it every time. Nerfs to DB would be nice, but so often people let the carrier freecast, even when they are extremely poorly positioned. Providing a slightly bigger reward incentive to killing one would ideally make people actually try to use their brains and make them a bigger focus target.

    One might think, judging by your comment, that you've never used the DB. The carrier gets focused not only by the odd ganker here and there, but even commanders will charge towards banner carriers at times, bringing the whole zerg to kill the DB. I think that's good, but it goes against what you say and should certainly NOT reward anything extra since 80 vs 1 is a massive gank.

    I want banners to be tools that can be used cleverly to bring weak sides victory. That's why I believe the devs should spend more time considering the options (i.e. rework the skills), rather than tweaking a few numbers here and there and calling it done.

    The problem here is that not only the weaker side can use them, actually the one with the more upgraded objectives, that already dominates, is more likely to have a banner on their side.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    The problem here is that not only the weaker side can use them, actually the one with the more upgraded objectives, that already dominates, is more likely to have a banner on their side.

    I said that too!

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    GW2 doesn't do any handicapping to counter SNOWBALLING (to my disappointment), strong sides get stronger because they own MORE objectives inside which they can put MORE banners to make themselves MORE powerful.

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I watched a burn guard drop a zerg with the fifth skill on the dragon banner in a tight corridor (dredge tunnels) once.
    Nobody expected those burns to matter so they just kept fighting.
    That said, in most scenarios its not hard to simply... not stand in the big line of fire.

    I honestly get more use out of the turtle banner. AoE invulnerability and AoE zerg knockback is pretty potent.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • SWI.4127SWI.4127 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not just the 5 skill. 3 skill knocks people back at I believe at least 1500 range and hits over 10 targets. Forgive me if that's wrong, but the range and target cap aren't on the wiki, that's just from memory. So you can make groups waste stab early, or just completely stop their push. Some of the arguments people are coming up with in order to avoid nerfing it are honestly surprising. What if a normal profession skill did these things? You can get over 1 mil damage in a short fight easily and maintain PvE raid DPS during a fight with this thing, yet people complain Herald is too strong. Sure you could walk out of the 5 skill (especially if the banner user is bad and wastes it at a bad time), but you can also walk out of scourge shade, meteor shower, etc. We have no problem nerfing those.

    On top of this, everything is getting nerfed hard. Why would you NOT want them to bring this in line as well. People are saying it's not even used that much. First of all, I'm not sure what server you're on, but I see them quite often. Also you're not considering how if it doesn't get nerfed, it will be even stronger relative to everything else that was nerfed. Therefore it will be used even more.

  • not only is DB way, way too powerful, I am sick of the map chat range when some non-rev class dares to use one.

    Remove them altogether. It would be better.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    @SWI.4127 said:
    On top of this, everything is getting nerfed hard. Why would you NOT want them to bring this in line as well.

    The answer to this is ;

    ... because it won't get buffed when everything else does. It'll get forgotten and left in the dirt like all the other Guild Tactics.

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Yeah, nerf it! Or like someone said before, remove it all together.