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Core Necro Post Patch Will Have Broken Sustain - Told You

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  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Guys, stop talking about the Necro damage and killing opponents, which is moot to my point made.

    What I was saying is that it won't need to kill opponents while it tanks perpetually on a node and fears people off constantly for decap.

    It's just going to be another situation that is as obnoxious as it could possibly be, similar to old-school engi decap or ventari tablet bunkers.

    This has nothing to do with if the Necromancer can kill you or not.

    Considering there is less stab, less long lasting stab for corruption, less instant corruption available, less corruption available in general,much less condi duration, and doom now having a cast time I think this should be less of an issue?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infect.2738 said:

    @Emapudapus.1307 said:
    Its not only about core necro too tanky/too strong, but as its showing itself its more like water weaver 2.0 interactivenes to play as or against. Fun fun, i dont think anyone wants that, op or not.

    How is it like fighting a water weaver? It has 2 dodges (not counting a vigor source from somewhere)...you can still hit it even if some of the damage is soaked. That means you can still "interact" with it. A necro will never sustain as long as the current meta ele builds.

    technically you could still hit the scrapper before it nerfs, didnt change the fact that nothing could kill scrapper 1v1 so everyone and their mother just ran you down on scrapper and afked on nodes.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Guys, stop talking about the Necro damage and killing opponents, which is moot to my point made.

    What I was saying is that it won't need to kill opponents while it tanks perpetually on a node and fears people off constantly for decap.

    It's just going to be another situation that is as obnoxious as it could possibly be, similar to old-school engi decap or ventari tablet bunkers.

    This has nothing to do with if the Necromancer can kill you or not.

    Considering there is less stab, less long lasting stab for corruption, less instant corruption available, less corruption available in general,much less condi duration, and doom now having a cast time I think this should be less of an issue?

    im afraid of scrapper v2.0
    i remember fighting scrapper, I remember dueling him for 2minutes, and his only strategy was to try to push me off the node from time to time to get 1 tick of decap.
    this kitten made me stop pvp.
    its one thing to have classes with overtuned damage/survi combo like holo used to be and another as old scrapper used to be.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Guys, stop talking about the Necro damage and killing opponents, which is moot to my point made.

    What I was saying is that it won't need to kill opponents while it tanks perpetually on a node and fears people off constantly for decap.

    It's just going to be another situation that is as obnoxious as it could possibly be, similar to old-school engi decap or ventari tablet bunkers.

    This has nothing to do with if the Necromancer can kill you or not.

    Considering there is less stab, less long lasting stab for corruption, less instant corruption available, less corruption available in general,much less condi duration, and doom now having a cast time I think this should be less of an issue?

    im afraid of scrapper v2.0
    i remember fighting scrapper, I remember dueling him for 2minutes, and his only strategy was to try to push me off the node from time to time to get 1 tick of decap.
    this kitten made me stop pvp.
    its one thing to have classes with overtuned damage/survi combo like holo used to be and another as old scrapper used to be.

    Necro doest have the tools, it's all health related and they can't avoid anything you throw. It won't be anywhere near.

    Though damage has been cut I think people are still underestimating how much of an abundance of damage there was before. You'll still be able to punch through shroud since they can't avoid anything at all. Necro has been stated to be an attrition based fighter and due to inflated damage that was rarely seen. I think it's going to be interesting to see it preforming in its designed role more.

    Necro will be relatively more tanky. More so than necro players think. But it won't be immortal like some people are making out. But will it be too tanky?

    I'd rather see first hand than try and speculate. I think there is a lot of knee jerk and overreacting going on at the moment to these notes. From all sides.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Guys, stop talking about the Necro damage and killing opponents, which is moot to my point made.

    What I was saying is that it won't need to kill opponents while it tanks perpetually on a node and fears people off constantly for decap.

    It's just going to be another situation that is as obnoxious as it could possibly be, similar to old-school engi decap or ventari tablet bunkers.

    This has nothing to do with if the Necromancer can kill you or not.

    Considering there is less stab, less long lasting stab for corruption, less instant corruption available, less corruption available in general,much less condi duration, and doom now having a cast time I think this should be less of an issue?

    im afraid of scrapper v2.0
    i remember fighting scrapper, I remember dueling him for 2minutes, and his only strategy was to try to push me off the node from time to time to get 1 tick of decap.
    this kitten made me stop pvp.
    its one thing to have classes with overtuned damage/survi combo like holo used to be and another as old scrapper used to be.

    Necro doest have the tools, it's all health related and they can't avoid anything you throw. It won't be anywhere near.

    Though damage has been cut I think people are still underestimating how much of an abundance of damage there was before. You'll still be able to punch through shroud since they can't avoid anything at all. Necro has been stated to be an attrition based fighter and due to inflated damage that was rarely seen. I think it's going to be interesting to see it preforming in its designed role more.

    Necro will be relatively more tanky. More so than necro players think. But it won't be immortal like some people are making out. But will it be too tanky?

    I'd rather see first hand than try and speculate. I think there is a lot of knee jerk and overreacting going on at the moment to these notes. From all sides.

    I would really like to believe you but time will tell, mb Im 100% wrong but if im not it will suck.
    TODAY while wighting weaver, I landed every single ability on my kit, on glass cannon berserker amulet mesmer, both sword and GS, everything.
    I was rewarded with weaver healing to full, after every single attack.
    by the end I had no cooldowns, and weaver was 100% hp with 20% hp barrier.
    I played around his every dodge, blink stunned him at the end of the dodge, delayed my combo to wait out another, knocked him into a wall so it would act as a stun and all that ment nothing, becouse he has full hp still.
    and I think necro could have the tools to do this too, 2 days ago I fought necro 2v1, he used his 100% hp shroud. tanked alot, dropped it. and somehow after 10s he had another 100% hp shroud, I dont know how he did it but the fact remains that he did.
    maybe its some stupid interaction for draining clones? but the fact is, in that 20s fight, me and rev had to chop throught 80k worth of HP.

  • EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2020

    As a Necro main, I shall give the fairest judgement to this thread.

    I agree that Necro shroud needs nerf in the coming balance. It is too tanky for its own good.

    I suggest to remove its innate 50% damage reduction so it becomes a lot less tanky.

    However, we should be compensated by removing the shroud auto degeneration too and given a 7 seconds shroud cooldown.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2020

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    As a Necro main, I shall give the fairest judgement to this thread.

    I agree that Necro shroud needs nerf in the coming balance. It is too tanky for its own good.

    I suggest to remove its innate 50% damage reduction so it becomes a lot less tanky.

    However, we should be compensated by removing the shroud auto degeneration too and given a 7 seconds shroud cooldown.

    You are only saying this because you have your own agenda because it doesn't fit your shroud flashing play style and "my 7 second shroud" for the last two and a half years. You know full well how terribly coded shroud is and that they can't just remove the innate dr else they would have done it years ago.

    If core shroud turn out too tanky they can either change LF generation or how quickly it drains. You're 7s cooldown isn't coming back.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Can we please not exaggerate and create ideas that necro is going to be instant god mode please?

    I doubt we will be that op

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Guys, stop talking about the Necro damage and killing opponents, which is moot to my point made.

    What I was saying is that it won't need to kill opponents while it tanks perpetually on a node and fears people off constantly for decap.

    It's just going to be another situation that is as obnoxious as it could possibly be, similar to old-school engi decap or ventari tablet bunkers.

    This has nothing to do with if the Necromancer can kill you or not.

    Considering there is less stab, less long lasting stab for corruption, less instant corruption available, less corruption available in general,much less condi duration, and doom now having a cast time I think this should be less of an issue?

    im afraid of scrapper v2.0
    i remember fighting scrapper, I remember dueling him for 2minutes, and his only strategy was to try to push me off the node from time to time to get 1 tick of decap.
    this kitten made me stop pvp.
    its one thing to have classes with overtuned damage/survi combo like holo used to be and another as old scrapper used to be.

    Necro doest have the tools, it's all health related and they can't avoid anything you throw. It won't be anywhere near.

    Though damage has been cut I think people are still underestimating how much of an abundance of damage there was before. You'll still be able to punch through shroud since they can't avoid anything at all. Necro has been stated to be an attrition based fighter and due to inflated damage that was rarely seen. I think it's going to be interesting to see it preforming in its designed role more.

    Necro will be relatively more tanky. More so than necro players think. But it won't be immortal like some people are making out. But will it be too tanky?

    I'd rather see first hand than try and speculate. I think there is a lot of knee jerk and overreacting going on at the moment to these notes. From all sides.

    I would really like to believe you but time will tell, mb Im 100% wrong but if im not it will suck.
    TODAY while wighting weaver, I landed every single ability on my kit, on glass cannon berserker amulet mesmer, both sword and GS, everything.
    I was rewarded with weaver healing to full, after every single attack.
    by the end I had no cooldowns, and weaver was 100% hp with 20% hp barrier.
    I played around his every dodge, blink stunned him at the end of the dodge, delayed my combo to wait out another, knocked him into a wall so it would act as a stun and all that ment nothing, becouse he has full hp still.
    and I think necro could have the tools to do this too, 2 days ago I fought necro 2v1, he used his 100% hp shroud. tanked alot, dropped it. and somehow after 10s he had another 100% hp shroud, I dont know how he did it but the fact remains that he did.
    maybe its some stupid interaction for draining clones? but the fact is, in that 20s fight, me and rev had to chop throught 80k worth of HP.

    Yea there is one build that does this and very few people have discovered it yet and in a 1v1 situation its very strong unless someone knows how to properly burst it.
    I bet what you did was burst him in shroud because thats how necro is right now in most builds you just burst it at any point and its super effective. How ever this one build forces you to play like necro was before HoT. You have to wait for them to drop shroud and then burst them in that 10s window.
    That said while this build does heal necromancer to full hp (if allowed enough time) its no where near as fast as weaver.

    Also yes your mesmer clones can make for additional life force by massive amounts if he is running spectral armor as each clone counts as an individual which can strike meaning each time a clone hits during that armor up time he would gain 8% life force add in you and the rev also hitting him and thats a lot of life force. (if it was a renegade rev and he was using spirits thats also additional life force for just him summoning the spirts i dont know why thats a thing but it is) In the past people use to treat spectral armor like a warriors berserker stance because thats how effective it use to be. They simply avoided the necromancer till the armor effect expired to prevent giving them tons of life force of corse unless it was 4 people jumping on them at the start of a match.

    Weaver can swap to water press 1 skill or 2 and do a water combo and its back to 100% But how did you fail to kill a weaver as a 1 shot mes? That build has the power to one shot me when im playing builds that have 20k hp or more some times with toughness but some how a weaver with 11k-13k hp didnt die but you landed every skill??? You have no idea how suspect this sounds in practice.

    The necro build you fought heals over a long period of time and sacrifices for the most part a massive chunk of its offensive power (as it should) for that defensive capability.

    Considering i know the load out to the setup the healing can take a very long period of time and is weak to high burst damage but strong against damage over time. Even now with lower cooldown stunbreaks (which are being increased) and access to a stunbreak on shroud entry (which is being removed) should any +1 jump in on said necro it will die reasonably fast especially if any cc is involved with locking it down.

    So i have to ask did you and the rev defeat necro in the end still? I am honestly curious.
    Were you condi Mirage or power one shot when you fought said necro?
    Was rev or herald power or renegade?

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    As a Necro main, I shall give the fairest judgement to this thread.

    I agree that Necro shroud needs nerf in the coming balance. It is too tanky for its own good.

    I might be inclined to agree with you after the patch drops only and we see how effective it is though if its effective but still dies quick enough any time multiple jump on it then its fine.

    I suggest to remove its innate 50% damage reduction so it becomes a lot less tanky.

    Out of your darn mind?
    Naturally life force generation would have to be massively increased for them to do this. At best they could reduce it to 33% or something down from 50% but removing it entirely would make reaper impossible to play with its higher lf cost when factored with incoming damage.
    Imaging having a profession that cant avoid damage but rather soaks it and giving it a shroud mechanic with a resource that is removed when it takes damage. Now think about having 12k shroud stored up and someone (let alone multiple people) slapping you for about 2-4k and your shroud vanishes immediately. before you can cast the majority of its slow skills.

    However, we should be compensated by removing the shroud auto degeneration too and given a 7 seconds shroud cooldown.

    This is never going to happen.
    You are asking for a nerf with compensation to a profession that never gets both? This is not guardian lol. Its necro.
    As some one else said this kind of only fits your own agenda if they wanted to bring this kinda of stuff back they would have done it by now its clear that the shrouds entry standard has become 10s to allow for that down time to counter-play how powerful shroud actually is and im ok with that. Maybe if shorter shroud entry is one of reapers perks i would be ok with that because its a melee spec with higher cost upkeep but even then thats super questionable.

    If you want a shroud flashing play style just play scourge, take a big shade, and dont summon your shades so all the skill go off around you its effectively the same thing.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SPESHAL.9106 said:
    On an related note, some professions like mesmers don't even have a resource to manage

    I don't want to change this thread into a mesmer-related one but mesmer and necro are the only classes whose class "energy" (illusions and shroud respectively) can be interacted.


    A necro can refresh shroud so fast (traited) because there is no upper limit of how quickly it can be damaged. You can be focused by 5 power heralds or 1 support firebrand.

    For a necro, they either have to go the sustain build with signets or the fear build. Fear build should be looked at for sure but I seriously can't imagine the signet build to become a good bunker. Sure it might be hard (or even impossible for most builds) to kill 1v1, but they can easily be outrotated right now.

    I am still concerned about Terror, but that's a different topic.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046
    there is alot of ways weaver can prevent the one shot, I wasn in no position to 1shot them.
    1 stack of stab and you cant do it anymore most of the time ( + weavers dont have 11-13k hp they up it with amulets )
    protection and you cant do it anymore.
    I started with sword becouse I was locked to it, immob from s3->blurred with mind spike -> 2 clone f1.
    after healing he got overheal barrier and prot, and now I dont even have F3.
    +im using slightly changed 1shot mes build eagle instead of scholar+ different sigils.
    it doesnt peak dmg as much as scholars but it has more reliable crits and has more reliable damage over all.
    for me reliability outweighted possible biggest burst.
    when I go for burst against weaver I have to consider if its worth it, becouse if it doesnt work ( he has prot, unlucky no crits, weakness, stability, random dodge, or plain quick reflex on weaver ) and burst doesnt work, he heals to full and now its hunkered down.

    Speaking of necro, I was on power 1shot, rev was classical shiro.
    I didnt go for burst but sustain dps it from range, when he got to low shroud I went for burst, he kited well, rev didnt do much, we dropped him to like 10% hp. He went full HP shroud and I had to disengage.
    blinked away, FB was dummy and didnt heal/cleanse me so I droppd low and ran into random thief and died.
    didnt see the end resoult but I suspect that
    1 rev died
    2 rev ran
    3 necro got down but rallied due to me dying to thief
    After that I didint really have problems with that necro, I adjusted my playstyle against him but nevertheless, im worried about this kind of builds.
    i do NOT want the repeat of scrapper, raw HP as tanking is always hard to balance.
    mb necro could gain extra evade/block but lose some of its HP.
    instead of adding cast time to the fear they could make it similar to full counter but as a fear.
    shrug time will tell as always :D

  • Wisty.4135Wisty.4135 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Jobe.8290 said:
    Bunker Core Necro is going to be unkillable :)

    I already see 1 guy that plays menders + wells core necro and he is already labeled a bot due to the fact that he will undoubtedly push far at start of match and just sit on node. I’m surprised this isn’t meta already

    Are you talking about me? Because I think you might be talking about me.

    It is great drawing the 2/3v1 to you while your team still feeds mid. :)

    Really, I say, Viva la revolucion! Because nothing else will after this patch.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    After that I didint really have problems with that necro, I adjusted my playstyle against him but nevertheless, im worried about this kind of builds.
    i do NOT want the repeat of scrapper, raw HP as tanking is always hard to balance.

    Well I'm slightly worried people want something nerfed that might not need to be especially if we are not talking about hitting everyones profession resources in terms of nerfs at the same time.

    As far as scrapper i dont think necromancer has the potential to do what scrapper could as it had a lot more going on using a lot of tools necromancer does not have access too in general. Having things like stability far more boons, reflects, blocks, a possible invuln etc. Scrapper was just mad strong and that was in the current meta or one similar to it while necro in the current meta is not that strong especially while running such a tank build other wise it would already be meta and thus have been subject to nerfs without anyone having said anything.

    Anet is never going to give necro evades or blocks the community has been asking for them long before scourge because every other profession has them and anet still refused to do so because they hold necro to a standard of being slow and resilient without those things.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    After that I didint really have problems with that necro, I adjusted my playstyle against him but nevertheless, im worried about this kind of builds.
    i do NOT want the repeat of scrapper, raw HP as tanking is always hard to balance.

    Well I'm slightly worried people want something nerfed that might not need to be especially if we are not talking about hitting everyones profession resources in terms of nerfs at the same time.

    As far as scrapper i dont think necromancer has the potential to do what scrapper could as it had a lot more going on using a lot of tools necromancer does not have access too in general. Having things like stability far more boons, reflects, blocks, a possible invuln etc. Scrapper was just mad strong and that was in the current meta or one similar to it while necro in the current meta is not that strong especially while running such a tank build other wise it would already be meta and thus have been subject to nerfs without anyone having said anything.

    Anet is never going to give necro evades or blocks the community has been asking for them long before scourge because every other profession has them and anet still refused to do so because they hold necro to a standard of being slow and resilient without those things.

    its not about reflects blocks and all that jazz.
    it all came down to a few facts.
    1 nobody kills scrapper 1v1
    2 nobody kills scrapper 2v1 unless scrapper is bad
    3 scrapper over the duration will decap you by knocking you back constantly

    necro has same potential.
    bunker by having kitten ton of raw HP
    spam weakness drains and other kitten to stonewall any 1v1
    against 2v1 do kitten voodo magic to regain the shrud and run to kite ( while kiting you can push people off with fears and hit them through walls to discourage them from following )
    and finally keep fearing from time to time to decap people off node.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    After that I didint really have problems with that necro, I adjusted my playstyle against him but nevertheless, im worried about this kind of builds.
    i do NOT want the repeat of scrapper, raw HP as tanking is always hard to balance.

    Well I'm slightly worried people want something nerfed that might not need to be especially if we are not talking about hitting everyones profession resources in terms of nerfs at the same time.

    As far as scrapper i dont think necromancer has the potential to do what scrapper could as it had a lot more going on using a lot of tools necromancer does not have access too in general. Having things like stability far more boons, reflects, blocks, a possible invuln etc. Scrapper was just mad strong and that was in the current meta or one similar to it while necro in the current meta is not that strong especially while running such a tank build other wise it would already be meta and thus have been subject to nerfs without anyone having said anything.

    Anet is never going to give necro evades or blocks the community has been asking for them long before scourge because every other profession has them and anet still refused to do so because they hold necro to a standard of being slow and resilient without those things.

    its not about reflects blocks and all that jazz.
    it all came down to a few facts.
    1 nobody kills scrapper 1v1
    2 nobody kills scrapper 2v1 unless scrapper is bad
    3 scrapper over the duration will decap you by knocking you back constantly

    necro has same potential.
    bunker by having kitten ton of raw HP
    spam weakness drains and other kitten to stonewall any 1v1
    against 2v1 do kitten voodo magic to regain the shrud and run to kite ( while kiting you can push people off with fears and hit them through walls to discourage them from following )
    and finally keep fearing from time to time to decap people off node.

    Core has one single stunbreak every 50s and no stability source. The heal has a 1,25s cast time. To interrupt that is the easiest thing in the world. Thief will be the hardcounter to necro more than ever before. Warriors, revenants and holos can constantly cc a core necro. A longbow ranger can push him off the node or just range kill him and recap the node.

    It is quite easy to get a preview of what the patch does to carrion core necro in pvp if you go to wvw and build one with carrion stats + 30% damage reduction (that's the equivalent to the global damage reduction, achieveable for example with durability rune + toughness stacking sigil) and send it into smallscale. That build is food to every decent comp because you can shut it down so easy. You won't get off one single cast if two decent players are attacking you.

    You can shut down a core necro on full soldier stat builds (ultra low damage!) with most classes - so much about broken sustain of core. I am really looking forward to fights against core necros on reaper. I will bait their only stunbreak and then chain stun them for 5 seconds with chilled to the bone and executioner scythe.

    Btw.: the weakness duration is nerfed hard and the rest that is still present is easy to cleanse.

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    @lighter.2708 said:

    @reikken.4961 said:
    wow tl;dr @ this discussion

    Anyway, shroud is necro's version of healing. everyone else's healing got nerfed. necro's didn't. What else is there to say?

    HP values and armor value aren't changed either....

    See the difference between HP and death shroud is that HP doesn't refill by itself. You have to ... heal ... to refill your HP. Death shroud refills via life force. All healing was nerfed. Life force generation was not.

    This is a clear necro buff. Whether or not this buff is warranted is another question. But it's unarguably a significant buff.

  • This is fun to read lol. I agree with Chaith tho, after that core necro is should be fine.

    CHEEKYLA

  • lighter.2708lighter.2708 Member ✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    @reikken.4961 said:

    @lighter.2708 said:

    @reikken.4961 said:
    wow tl;dr @ this discussion

    Anyway, shroud is necro's version of healing. everyone else's healing got nerfed. necro's didn't. What else is there to say?

    HP values and armor value aren't changed either....

    See the difference between HP and death shroud is that HP doesn't refill by itself. You have to ... heal ... to refill your HP. Death shroud refills via life force. All healing was nerfed. Life force generation was not.

    This is a clear necro buff. Whether or not this buff is warranted is another question. But it's unarguably a significant buff.

    In what post u see life force generation not nerfed...
    Spectral Walk: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 50 seconds
    Spectral Armor: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 seconds
    Ghastly Claws: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.333. Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 10 seconds

    also, necro healing nerfed means overall necro sustain is still nerfed,
    people don't look at overall picture at all...
    should we start nerfing evade frame by 30% as well..seriously..if that's how people gonna nerf each stuff individually and not overall sustain...
    necro force life maybe touched little, but u can't deny the fact that necro general sustain has been nerfed

    like they can easily shave necro normal healing by 90% and u will still say "death shroud not touched, OP" for how tunnel visioned some of u are..

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lighter.2708 said:
    In what post u see life force generation not nerfed...
    Spectral Walk: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 50 seconds
    Spectral Armor: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 seconds
    Ghastly Claws: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.333. Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 10 seconds

    also, necro healing nerfed means overall necro sustain is still nerfed,
    people don't look at overall picture at all...
    should we start nerfing evade frame by 30% as well..seriously..if that's how people gonna nerf each stuff individually and not overall sustain...
    necro force life maybe touched little, but u can't deny the fact that necro general sustain has been nerfed

    like they can easily shave necro normal healing by 90% and u will still say "death shroud not touched, OP" for how tunnel visioned some of u are..

    I'd tend to be the necromancer's advocate, yet here I still have to disagree. The necromancer's sustain is clearly no touched as much as the other profession's sustain which valid partially the fears of this thread.

    In sPvP most of the LF sustain will come from weapon skills and, no, it's not nerfed. However, if it was nerfed, the dynamic of the profession would be seriously hurted because shroud is the "special mechanic" of the necromancer. A smart change like ANet like to pull out would probably be to reduce the shroud's inate damage reduction to 30% instead of 50%.

    The other dangerous source of sustain which is not nerfed in this patch is life leeching (from the signet of vampirism to the minion's life leeching ability from the vampiric trait without forgeting vampiric ritual and the various life leeching skills). ANet appear to have sloppily forgotten about a lot of potentially dangerous sustain sources on the necromancer's kit.

    The necromancer is far from being great at sustain in the current game, yet it's possible to be quite resilient. After the patch hit, the necromancer's resilience is bound to shot up by quite a bit more than the other profession's own due to all the sustain sources that ANet "forgot" to look at. I can easily see 4 directions to build that will make the necromancer (and it's e-specs) way more resilient than before in light of the patch notes given after the patch hit (well, signet, spectral and minions).

    • Well because vampiric ritual isn't touched.
    • Signet because signet of vampirism, signet of undeath, signet of suffering and even signet of locust are left untouched as well.
    • Spectral because the shroud mechanism itself is left untouched boosting the efficiency of LF generating skills.
    • Minions because blood fiend's heal on hit and vampiric's heal on minion's hit are left untouched.

    And I'm not even listing reaper's traitline's untouched sustain (shout trait, GS trait and heal on giving oneself a boon trait.), traits like parasitic contagion or unholy sanctuary.

    To cover up the inadapted design of the necromancer's defensive system, ANet gave it a lot of sustain that can be found everywhere in it's kit. Most of this sustain isn't even touched if we look at the patch notes, so overall the survivability of the necromancer is bound to increase by a lot (even if it's poorly designed survivability). The concerns from this thread may be exagerated but they are not unfounded.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    After that I didint really have problems with that necro, I adjusted my playstyle against him but nevertheless, im worried about this kind of builds.
    i do NOT want the repeat of scrapper, raw HP as tanking is always hard to balance.

    Well I'm slightly worried people want something nerfed that might not need to be especially if we are not talking about hitting everyones profession resources in terms of nerfs at the same time.

    As far as scrapper i dont think necromancer has the potential to do what scrapper could as it had a lot more going on using a lot of tools necromancer does not have access too in general. Having things like stability far more boons, reflects, blocks, a possible invuln etc. Scrapper was just mad strong and that was in the current meta or one similar to it while necro in the current meta is not that strong especially while running such a tank build other wise it would already be meta and thus have been subject to nerfs without anyone having said anything.

    Anet is never going to give necro evades or blocks the community has been asking for them long before scourge because every other profession has them and anet still refused to do so because they hold necro to a standard of being slow and resilient without those things.

    its not about reflects blocks and all that jazz.
    it all came down to a few facts.
    1 nobody kills scrapper 1v1
    2 nobody kills scrapper 2v1 unless scrapper is bad
    3 scrapper over the duration will decap you by knocking you back constantly

    huh what? im pretty sure it is about those things those things are pretty important when used correctly.

    Scrappers success was not from only knock backs as people have stunbreaks and stability for that. Its like making the assumption Trevor did that necro will just constantly be able to fear people off a point which is far from the truth of reality.

    I dont agree considering i main necro and have also played all the other professions to some extent (some more than others) all of whom have some kind of damage ignoring tool, blocks, stealth, and or evades they make a massive difference in surviving and out right brawling in some cases. In some cases people wont even target you like they would a necro because on these other professions they know you have such tools to deny the damage or disengage

    I just dont see necro being as effective as scrapper was especially considering the nerfs that are going to happy across the board to even necro itself. If it cant do it currently and a global damage nerf allows that to happen thats saying something about busted everyone else was in comparison to necromancer but no one will look at things this way.

    necro has same potential.
    bunker by having kitten ton of raw HP

    And there is no problem with this considering it has no evades blocks etc
    That said not everyone is going to fall into this play style but if it works and is viable without depending so heavily on boo corruption like right now im not sure thats a bad thing. Necro is going to have potential but just not as a bunker tank.

    spam weakness drains and other kitten to stonewall any 1v1

    Weakness is being nerfed tho so i dont really want to hear this

    against 2v1 do kitten voodo magic to regain the shrud and run to kite ( while kiting you can push people off with fears and hit them through walls to discourage them from following )

    Im not sure if this is a real complaint or just a joke tbh

    Regardless most points are not that big to allow that much kiting if you actually want to defend them especially if you have ranged pressure in your kit and can start doing heavy damage before you even reach the point or have constant sticky pressure in your melee build like spellbreaker has with all its movement skills and magebane. Fears are also not as plentiful as people think they are because they like go ignore how they are drenched in boons but then complain about necro fear without the understanding of stability converts to fear. Weavers atm are especially infamous for doing this and complaining about necro fear while spamming stances and splattering aoe condi without the concept that each stance grants stability which can be punished by only necro. It works for every other profession they fight and because necro can counter it it makes necro op. shrug

    In a 2v1 ideally the necormancer should have 0 way of winning and should fall within a reasonable time frame (Assuming the 2 players know how to play) i dont think it would last any longer than any other profession that makes a tank / bunker build in a 2v1 it just feels different because rather than dodging / blocking hits like the other 8 professions this 1 profession cannot. It fees off to see your hits land and not kill something as quick as you expect it to be killed.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @lighter.2708 said:
    In what post u see life force generation not nerfed...
    Spectral Walk: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 50 seconds
    Spectral Armor: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 seconds
    Ghastly Claws: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.333. Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 10 seconds

    also, necro healing nerfed means overall necro sustain is still nerfed,
    people don't look at overall picture at all...
    should we start nerfing evade frame by 30% as well..seriously..if that's how people gonna nerf each stuff individually and not overall sustain...
    necro force life maybe touched little, but u can't deny the fact that necro general sustain has been nerfed

    like they can easily shave necro normal healing by 90% and u will still say "death shroud not touched, OP" for how tunnel visioned some of u are..

    I'd tend to be the necromancer's advocate, yet here I still have to disagree. The necromancer's sustain is clearly no touched as much as the other profession's sustain which valid partially the fears of this thread.

    In sPvP most of the LF sustain will come from weapon skills and, no, it's not nerfed. However, if it was nerfed, the dynamic of the profession would be seriously hurted because shroud is the "special mechanic" of the necromancer. A smart change like ANet like to pull out would probably be to reduce the shroud's inate damage reduction to 30% instead of 50%.

    The other dangerous source of sustain which is not nerfed in this patch is life leeching (from the signet of vampirism to the minion's life leeching ability from the vampiric trait without forgeting vampiric ritual and the various life leeching skills). ANet appear to have sloppily forgotten about a lot of potentially dangerous sustain sources on the necromancer's kit.

    The necromancer is far from being great at sustain in the current game, yet it's possible to be quite resilient. After the patch hit, the necromancer's resilience is bound to shot up by quite a bit more than the other profession's own due to all the sustain sources that ANet "forgot" to look at. I can easily see 4 directions to build that will make the necromancer (and it's e-specs) way more resilient than before in light of the patch notes given after the patch hit (well, signet, spectral and minions).

    • Well because vampiric ritual isn't touched.
    • Signet because signet of vampirism, signet of undeath, signet of suffering and even signet of locust are left untouched as well.
    • Spectral because the shroud mechanism itself is left untouched boosting the efficiency of LF generating skills.
    • Minions because blood fiend's heal on hit and vampiric's heal on minion's hit are left untouched.

    And I'm not even listing reaper's traitline's untouched sustain (shout trait, GS trait and heal on giving oneself a boon trait.), traits like parasitic contagion or unholy sanctuary.

    To cover up the inadapted design of the necromancer's defensive system, ANet gave it a lot of sustain that can be found everywhere in it's kit. Most of this sustain isn't even touched if we look at the patch notes, so overall the survivability of the necromancer is bound to increase by a lot (even if it's poorly designed survivability). The concerns from this thread may be exagerated but they are not unfounded.

    Its possible that necro was the base line they were aiming to drop everyone else down too but i wont say that 100% what they were going for without confirmation.

    Spectral's
    Certainly dont need any more reductions as unlike with other professions we dont have spectral mastery anymore while others still have their traits to reduce/improve their active utilities necro does not so they need to be-careful how much they scale those back unless they want to bring back such a trait. it would be very unjust for them to take those too far.
    Minons
    Fall into that "never used so really no need to touch" category.... There is likely not enough player data on them for them to determine how to balance them which means that they effectively cant tell what direction to take them to nerf or buff them. Though if they had to guess its likely that because almost no builds in pvp or wvw use them other than wurm that they took it as they needed a slight buff so they gave a few of them some QoL changes in the global notes.
    Wells
    i do agree with most wells were not touched which is odd vamp ritual i think could stand to get a minor reduction maybe but i have not used this trait in a long time so i cant say how good it is now vs how good it will be in post patch. But the biggest complaint with wells was well of blood reviving players too fast which did see a nerf.
    Signets
    I feel will be touched in the future but they saw no reason to touch them now or its the same as minions considering it was rare for any necromancer player to use them before the undeath change. (although i did) there is simply not enough data to really know if they needed a buff or a nerf so they left them alone. Undeath just got buffed so its unlikely to immediately be nerfed 1 patch later (i expect it to be nerfed back to 2% though in the future). Vamp signet actually requires you to get hit to get any benefit so im not sure that one needs to be touched. Locust signet needs to be looked at for sure i can see it being low key strong if you know when / how to use it post patch but at the movement damage is still to high for it to be viable. Chip damage would remove all the hp you could gain from it if you landed it on all 5 targets.
    The trait signets of suffering is ideally fine for the moment for what it does i dont think it needs any changes. If we see everyone else getting their traits that grant flat bonus stats reduced like power, healing power etc then SoS will need the according reductions in those areas too.

    In short i think a lot of the things you pointed out where not touched either with good reason or because necromancer has been pushed into a corner with very minimal options it can take in its utility due to how everyone else developed in late HoT and PoF to the point that people dared not even bother trying to use them because having certain things is that critical to survival the moment anyone looked at you. Without proper data on how to take something they could over kill it making it even more unusable. I think for sure necro will be one of the professions seeing alot of nerfs in the patches after due to communitor uproar because it does better in lower damage meta but oh well. We will end up back where we were after enough time.

    As far as reaper goes i dont think those need to be touched as they suffer from the core weakness of necro. Traits like blighters boon and soul eater will not work if the necromancer cannot attack. They completely depend on its ability to attack 100% of the time In other words if you hit it with cc it cant heal which wont be hard to do now with the overall stability reduction. I truthfully dont see many people using blighters boon till they fix reapers attack speed at a base level. Its mad slow for a game in the year of 2020 where everyone else is rather speedy swift and the damage output does not make up for the massive reduction in base attack speed.

  • lighter.2708lighter.2708 Member ✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @lighter.2708 said:
    In what post u see life force generation not nerfed...
    Spectral Walk: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 50 seconds
    Spectral Armor: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 seconds
    Ghastly Claws: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.333. Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 10 seconds

    also, necro healing nerfed means overall necro sustain is still nerfed,
    people don't look at overall picture at all...
    should we start nerfing evade frame by 30% as well..seriously..if that's how people gonna nerf each stuff individually and not overall sustain...
    necro force life maybe touched little, but u can't deny the fact that necro general sustain has been nerfed

    like they can easily shave necro normal healing by 90% and u will still say "death shroud not touched, OP" for how tunnel visioned some of u are..

    I'd tend to be the necromancer's advocate, yet here I still have to disagree. The necromancer's sustain is clearly no touched as much as the other profession's sustain which valid partially the fears of this thread.

    In sPvP most of the LF sustain will come from weapon skills and, no, it's not nerfed. However, if it was nerfed, the dynamic of the profession would be seriously hurted because shroud is the "special mechanic" of the necromancer. A smart change like ANet like to pull out would probably be to reduce the shroud's inate damage reduction to 30% instead of 50%.

    The other dangerous source of sustain which is not nerfed in this patch is life leeching (from the signet of vampirism to the minion's life leeching ability from the vampiric trait without forgeting vampiric ritual and the various life leeching skills). ANet appear to have sloppily forgotten about a lot of potentially dangerous sustain sources on the necromancer's kit.

    The necromancer is far from being great at sustain in the current game, yet it's possible to be quite resilient. After the patch hit, the necromancer's resilience is bound to shot up by quite a bit more than the other profession's own due to all the sustain sources that ANet "forgot" to look at. I can easily see 4 directions to build that will make the necromancer (and it's e-specs) way more resilient than before in light of the patch notes given after the patch hit (well, signet, spectral and minions).

    • Well because vampiric ritual isn't touched.
    • Signet because signet of vampirism, signet of undeath, signet of suffering and even signet of locust are left untouched as well.
    • Spectral because the shroud mechanism itself is left untouched boosting the efficiency of LF generating skills.
    • Minions because blood fiend's heal on hit and vampiric's heal on minion's hit are left untouched.

    And I'm not even listing reaper's traitline's untouched sustain (shout trait, GS trait and heal on giving oneself a boon trait.), traits like parasitic contagion or unholy sanctuary.

    To cover up the inadapted design of the necromancer's defensive system, ANet gave it a lot of sustain that can be found everywhere in it's kit. Most of this sustain isn't even touched if we look at the patch notes, so overall the survivability of the necromancer is bound to increase by a lot (even if it's poorly designed survivability). The concerns from this thread may be exagerated but they are not unfounded.

    First of all, how do people know if necro's sustain is not touched not enough? like literally, how do u know, did u play in test server to know or something. because not even the best player can know what the meta will shift to with the amount of changes that's happening.
    second of all, even if it is true, isn't it clear? necro is clearly very underperforming at the moment, even without this patch, they will either need to nerf other classes or buff necro anyway.

    all these comments are pure speculation, even this speculation from pure guessing is true, it would still make sense for why they did it for how underperforming necro is right now, specially when pvp is plagued by rev, thief and mes and pew pew ranger

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046

    I don't understand what you're not understanding about this.

    • Everyone's sustain factor is getting nerfed 33% or worse "Druid as example is getting CA skills cut by 50% again."
    • Necro Shroud functions are sustain, don't act like it isn't. None of this is being touched at all.
    • Life steal/heal is also direct sustain, and it works in shroud. None of this is being touched at all. Blood line will become powerful. Not only is the sustain point not being touched, but the damage that comes off life steal is also not being touched, and it will prove be very strong with multi strike attacks in the next meta, such as Axe 2 or a well or Life Transfer. There is no CD on that life steal damage/heal.

    After 33% coefficient nerf, CD increases, massive loss in quick access/uptime, and hard CCs going to 0 damage, we'll be seeing about a 40% to 50% universal cut to DPS intra-class wide. After testing Core Necro specs and even Reaper/Scourge in the past 3-4 days myself, I can say that this cut in damage will easily push the sustain factor of any Necro through the roof. Furthermore its damage will become dangerous while using the blood line, when everyone else's sustain and damage is hit by 33%, but blood life steal/heal is untouched.

    Oh and incase you are worried about "not having enough fear", discover Rune Of The Sunless. Summon Golem = Fear, right into Golem CC knockdown = Enormously powerful CC chain. And after the initial summon, each time you make the Golem Charge, he will fear the person first from a rather large radius, and then proceed to hit them with the follow knockdown. 45s CD, perfect for Golem Charge CD.

    And this kitten about "no stability/prot uptime" and "not enough stun breaks" is bologna. I was using Blood line with Well Heal for over saturated heal factor due to life siphon and the trait in Spite that also consumes conditions upon use. Not only is this an absurd amount of heal factor but it also grants protection. You use the Well that grants Stability and is a stun break, for even more life siphon & stab & stun break. Then you use Plague Signet to deal with your condis and grant another stun break. This is very powerful with Spite Sig Trait, super fast recharge for the stun break an the condi clearing. It's seriously all you need for condi clear if you know how to aim and use skills at the right time. Between Well that grants stun break & stab, and Plague Sig, that's all you need for stun breaks and stab. Then you can use the Sig of Undeath. Run Barbarian or Paladin Amulet, with Sunless or either Rune of Eagle or Rune of Speed as alternatives. You want to use Axe/Warhorn as primary weapon set, then the 2nd is optional. Of course you want to run Death Magic for the toughness stacking and power stacking. Spite/Death/Blood. <- This build is already strong as hell. After this patch, it'll be in contestation for sure as the dominant side node.

    I don't think some of you people are recognizing how much damage rolls off of casting Warhorn 5 + Well Heal + Well of Stab + Go into Shroud and 4. Seriously, the sustain that comes of that is larger than the actual heal skill, and the damage is pretty equivalent to a Reaper spin to win 4.

    I honestly believe some of these Necro players are pigeonholed into train of thought of "I must use these certain skills because that is always what has been good." Branch off and try new things. Some of this stuff will soon be busted in terms of sustain factor.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lighter.2708 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @lighter.2708 said:
    In what post u see life force generation not nerfed...
    Spectral Walk: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 50 seconds
    Spectral Armor: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 seconds
    Ghastly Claws: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.333. Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 10 seconds

    also, necro healing nerfed means overall necro sustain is still nerfed,
    people don't look at overall picture at all...
    should we start nerfing evade frame by 30% as well..seriously..if that's how people gonna nerf each stuff individually and not overall sustain...
    necro force life maybe touched little, but u can't deny the fact that necro general sustain has been nerfed

    like they can easily shave necro normal healing by 90% and u will still say "death shroud not touched, OP" for how tunnel visioned some of u are..

    I'd tend to be the necromancer's advocate, yet here I still have to disagree. The necromancer's sustain is clearly no touched as much as the other profession's sustain which valid partially the fears of this thread.

    In sPvP most of the LF sustain will come from weapon skills and, no, it's not nerfed. However, if it was nerfed, the dynamic of the profession would be seriously hurted because shroud is the "special mechanic" of the necromancer. A smart change like ANet like to pull out would probably be to reduce the shroud's inate damage reduction to 30% instead of 50%.

    The other dangerous source of sustain which is not nerfed in this patch is life leeching (from the signet of vampirism to the minion's life leeching ability from the vampiric trait without forgeting vampiric ritual and the various life leeching skills). ANet appear to have sloppily forgotten about a lot of potentially dangerous sustain sources on the necromancer's kit.

    The necromancer is far from being great at sustain in the current game, yet it's possible to be quite resilient. After the patch hit, the necromancer's resilience is bound to shot up by quite a bit more than the other profession's own due to all the sustain sources that ANet "forgot" to look at. I can easily see 4 directions to build that will make the necromancer (and it's e-specs) way more resilient than before in light of the patch notes given after the patch hit (well, signet, spectral and minions).

    • Well because vampiric ritual isn't touched.
    • Signet because signet of vampirism, signet of undeath, signet of suffering and even signet of locust are left untouched as well.
    • Spectral because the shroud mechanism itself is left untouched boosting the efficiency of LF generating skills.
    • Minions because blood fiend's heal on hit and vampiric's heal on minion's hit are left untouched.

    And I'm not even listing reaper's traitline's untouched sustain (shout trait, GS trait and heal on giving oneself a boon trait.), traits like parasitic contagion or unholy sanctuary.

    To cover up the inadapted design of the necromancer's defensive system, ANet gave it a lot of sustain that can be found everywhere in it's kit. Most of this sustain isn't even touched if we look at the patch notes, so overall the survivability of the necromancer is bound to increase by a lot (even if it's poorly designed survivability). The concerns from this thread may be exagerated but they are not unfounded.

    First of all, how do people know if necro's sustain is not touched not enough? like literally, how do u know

    By reading the patch notes that were released.

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @lighter.2708 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @lighter.2708 said:
    In what post u see life force generation not nerfed...
    Spectral Walk: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 50 seconds
    Spectral Armor: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 seconds
    Ghastly Claws: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.333. Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 10 seconds

    also, necro healing nerfed means overall necro sustain is still nerfed,
    people don't look at overall picture at all...
    should we start nerfing evade frame by 30% as well..seriously..if that's how people gonna nerf each stuff individually and not overall sustain...
    necro force life maybe touched little, but u can't deny the fact that necro general sustain has been nerfed

    like they can easily shave necro normal healing by 90% and u will still say "death shroud not touched, OP" for how tunnel visioned some of u are..

    I'd tend to be the necromancer's advocate, yet here I still have to disagree. The necromancer's sustain is clearly no touched as much as the other profession's sustain which valid partially the fears of this thread.

    In sPvP most of the LF sustain will come from weapon skills and, no, it's not nerfed. However, if it was nerfed, the dynamic of the profession would be seriously hurted because shroud is the "special mechanic" of the necromancer. A smart change like ANet like to pull out would probably be to reduce the shroud's inate damage reduction to 30% instead of 50%.

    The other dangerous source of sustain which is not nerfed in this patch is life leeching (from the signet of vampirism to the minion's life leeching ability from the vampiric trait without forgeting vampiric ritual and the various life leeching skills). ANet appear to have sloppily forgotten about a lot of potentially dangerous sustain sources on the necromancer's kit.

    The necromancer is far from being great at sustain in the current game, yet it's possible to be quite resilient. After the patch hit, the necromancer's resilience is bound to shot up by quite a bit more than the other profession's own due to all the sustain sources that ANet "forgot" to look at. I can easily see 4 directions to build that will make the necromancer (and it's e-specs) way more resilient than before in light of the patch notes given after the patch hit (well, signet, spectral and minions).

    • Well because vampiric ritual isn't touched.
    • Signet because signet of vampirism, signet of undeath, signet of suffering and even signet of locust are left untouched as well.
    • Spectral because the shroud mechanism itself is left untouched boosting the efficiency of LF generating skills.
    • Minions because blood fiend's heal on hit and vampiric's heal on minion's hit are left untouched.

    And I'm not even listing reaper's traitline's untouched sustain (shout trait, GS trait and heal on giving oneself a boon trait.), traits like parasitic contagion or unholy sanctuary.

    To cover up the inadapted design of the necromancer's defensive system, ANet gave it a lot of sustain that can be found everywhere in it's kit. Most of this sustain isn't even touched if we look at the patch notes, so overall the survivability of the necromancer is bound to increase by a lot (even if it's poorly designed survivability). The concerns from this thread may be exagerated but they are not unfounded.

    First of all, how do people know if necro's sustain is not touched not enough? like literally, how do u know

    By reading the patch notes that were released.

    ..oh boy..

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    @lighter.2708 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @lighter.2708 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @lighter.2708 said:
    In what post u see life force generation not nerfed...
    Spectral Walk: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 50 seconds
    Spectral Armor: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 seconds
    Ghastly Claws: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.333. Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 10 seconds

    also, necro healing nerfed means overall necro sustain is still nerfed,
    people don't look at overall picture at all...
    should we start nerfing evade frame by 30% as well..seriously..if that's how people gonna nerf each stuff individually and not overall sustain...
    necro force life maybe touched little, but u can't deny the fact that necro general sustain has been nerfed

    like they can easily shave necro normal healing by 90% and u will still say "death shroud not touched, OP" for how tunnel visioned some of u are..

    I'd tend to be the necromancer's advocate, yet here I still have to disagree. The necromancer's sustain is clearly no touched as much as the other profession's sustain which valid partially the fears of this thread.

    In sPvP most of the LF sustain will come from weapon skills and, no, it's not nerfed. However, if it was nerfed, the dynamic of the profession would be seriously hurted because shroud is the "special mechanic" of the necromancer. A smart change like ANet like to pull out would probably be to reduce the shroud's inate damage reduction to 30% instead of 50%.

    The other dangerous source of sustain which is not nerfed in this patch is life leeching (from the signet of vampirism to the minion's life leeching ability from the vampiric trait without forgeting vampiric ritual and the various life leeching skills). ANet appear to have sloppily forgotten about a lot of potentially dangerous sustain sources on the necromancer's kit.

    The necromancer is far from being great at sustain in the current game, yet it's possible to be quite resilient. After the patch hit, the necromancer's resilience is bound to shot up by quite a bit more than the other profession's own due to all the sustain sources that ANet "forgot" to look at. I can easily see 4 directions to build that will make the necromancer (and it's e-specs) way more resilient than before in light of the patch notes given after the patch hit (well, signet, spectral and minions).

    • Well because vampiric ritual isn't touched.
    • Signet because signet of vampirism, signet of undeath, signet of suffering and even signet of locust are left untouched as well.
    • Spectral because the shroud mechanism itself is left untouched boosting the efficiency of LF generating skills.
    • Minions because blood fiend's heal on hit and vampiric's heal on minion's hit are left untouched.

    And I'm not even listing reaper's traitline's untouched sustain (shout trait, GS trait and heal on giving oneself a boon trait.), traits like parasitic contagion or unholy sanctuary.

    To cover up the inadapted design of the necromancer's defensive system, ANet gave it a lot of sustain that can be found everywhere in it's kit. Most of this sustain isn't even touched if we look at the patch notes, so overall the survivability of the necromancer is bound to increase by a lot (even if it's poorly designed survivability). The concerns from this thread may be exagerated but they are not unfounded.

    First of all, how do people know if necro's sustain is not touched not enough? like literally, how do u know

    By reading the patch notes that were released.

    ..oh boy..

    -correction>was-

    took care of it :)

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lighter.2708 said:
    First of all, how do people know if necro's sustain is not touched not enough? like literally, how do u know, did u play in test server to know or something. because not even the best player can know what the meta will shift to with the amount of changes that's happening.

    A relatively low damage environment favor mitigation via damage reduction over mitigation via damage nullification. ANet is aiming for less "big hits" and more "small hits" in order to increase the ttk. Thus they shift the gameplay in PvP toward an environment where taking hits can be a viable option whereas we've had an environment where taking hit was not an option up to now.

    Even the dumbest player will understand that reducing all damage coefficientd by 33% and sometime more will reduce the incoming damage. The necromancer, on top of that have gain large access to further damage mitigation in death magic. You can easily say without being wrong that the necromancer is second only to earth elementalist at damage reduction (and you'll never see an ele stay in earth, which mean the necromancer can be called the king of damage reduction)

    second of all, even if it is true, isn't it clear? necro is clearly very underperforming at the moment, even without this patch, they will either need to nerf other classes or buff necro anyway.

    Is it? It is not. The necromancer have it's place in sPvP and will always have. Defensively it is sturdy and even more when build for it. The only thing that prevent him to shine is the high bursts for which he doesn't have any reliable counter. And since burst is basically removed from PvP, nice days wait for the necromancer.

    all these comments are pure speculation, even this speculation from pure guessing is true, it would still make sense for why they did it for how underperforming necro is right now, specially when pvp is plagued by rev, thief and mes and pew pew ranger

    Sure it's speculation. However, with experience you can easily foresee what will happen. Just like it was easy to foresee that the change on the shade mechanism when they did it would be overkill in sPvP and PvE while it would need further nerfs in WvW. Just like when they release the runes effect that synergized well with barrier trait players already knew that it would be broken beyond belief.

    Just just need a minimum grasp of the game to predict what will happen. In case of the necromancer, even with all it's healing value reduced by 33% he would still see it's survivability effectively buffed by the damage reduction. Without, it's healing value reduced, it's foreseeable that he will be beyond everyone in sustain.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wisty.4135 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Jobe.8290 said:
    Bunker Core Necro is going to be unkillable :)

    I already see 1 guy that plays menders + wells core necro and he is already labeled a bot due to the fact that he will undoubtedly push far at start of match and just sit on node. I’m surprised this isn’t meta already

    Are you talking about me? Because I think you might be talking about me.

    It is great drawing the 2/3v1 to you while your team still feeds mid. :)

    Really, I say, Viva la revolucion! Because nothing else will after this patch.

    Nah I don’t think it was you, but necro is definitely most likely gonna be god tier or close after the patch

  • lighter.2708lighter.2708 Member ✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    Sure it's speculation. However, with experience you can easily foresee what will happen. Just like it was easy to foresee that the change on the shade mechanism when they did it would be overkill in sPvP and PvE while it would need further nerfs in WvW. Just like when they release the runes effect that synergized well with barrier trait players already knew that it would be broken beyond belief.

    Just just need a minimum grasp of the game to predict what will happen. In case of the necromancer, even with all it's healing value reduced by 33% he would still see it's survivability effectively buffed by the damage reduction. Without, it's healing value reduced, it's foreseeable that he will be beyond everyone in sustain.

    Lol no, no experience can foresee what will happen when basically the entire game's changed by 180 degrees.
    you foresee stuff by using your experience and comparing how one specific change will interact with an environment you already very familiar with, that's called foreseeing with experience, which u can not do when the environment it's self is changed and has become unfamiliar with you, which makes your experience invalid.
    and any speculation you make are just pure guessing, because current meta game will provide 0 info for the next patch.

    not to mention when necro buff is already justified

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @ZDragon.3046

    I don't understand what you're not understanding about this.

    • Everyone's sustain factor is getting nerfed 33% or worse "Druid as example is getting CA skills cut by 50% again."

    Consider that druids CA skills are not meant to only be personal sustain and are group based skills which heal multiple people not just its own self which is not the same kind of sustain shroud provides. Shroud provides a partial sustain mechanic for the necormancer only. A big part of the problem with this game is professions relying on support skills that effect 5-10 players and using them selfishly for sustain which is why druid ever got nerfed in the wrong direction in the first place. Do not use this as means to try and justify group support based skills vs something that only sustains ones self.

    • Necro Shroud functions are sustain, don't act like it isn't. None of this is being touched at all.

    For the necromancer only not for 5-10 players around the necromancer. Im not going to act like its not because it is how ever thats not its only fuction and you shouldnt act like that is its only function or be comparing it to sustain tools that are realistically support tools which shroud is not.

    • Life steal/heal is also direct sustain, and it works in shroud. None of this is being touched at all. Blood line will become powerful. Not only is the sustain point not being touched, but the damage that comes off life steal is also not being touched, and it will prove be very strong with multi strike attacks in the next meta, such as Axe 2 or a well or Life Transfer. There is no CD on that life steal damage/heal.

    Which? There are only a few skills that heal in shroud most of which are tied to "Directly" attacking which the necromancer cannot do while cced in other words if you cc it then it cant life leech/steal. That was the whole point of reducing its stability access even more in the patch.

    Vampiric and Vampiric aura are the only current ones that work in shroud and some how these are now too strong for where the game is going and will need reductions?
    Vampiric rituals also works in shroud if an enemy is standing on your wells (which ive already said could stand to get a reduction) This also fits they "support tool" being used for selfish sustain argument i made above and rightfully so it should see some reductions along with Vampiric Aura perhaps a best. Just that currently Vampiric aura amounts to so little hp healing over time in the current meta perhaps in the one going forward it might be appropriate for where they are aiming.

    Again this patch was not to reduce everyone by an equal amount. that would just result in slowing the game down but leaving things relatively the same.
    For hypothetical example if Warrior was above thief in terms of damage, mobility and sustain and you nerf both by 33% then Warrior is still above thief in the same categories. You nerfed both and the end result is that nothing has changed the game just plays slower. I dont think you understand the term balance and that it means that to achieve it some will undoubtably be nerfed more than others. You cant expect to achieve balance by hitting everyone with the same reductions thats not how that works.

    After 33% coefficient nerf, CD increases, massive loss in quick access/uptime, and hard CCs going to 0 damage, we'll be seeing about a 40% to 50% universal cut to DPS intra-class wide. After testing Core Necro specs and even Reaper/Scourge in the past 3-4 days myself, I can say that this cut in damage will easily push the sustain factor of any Necro through the roof. Furthermore its damage will become dangerous while using the blood line, when everyone else's sustain and damage is hit by 33%, but blood life steal/heal is untouched.

    First you were on about how Carrion is top dps now you are on about how blood magic makes necromancer broken... Trevor you are all over the place here.
    The fact that it takes a (estimated but not yet confirmed) 40-50 percent cut in dps for you to consider necromancer sustain to high says a lot even more so considering its sustain in the current meta on most builds is not very high. However you were not willing to accept other players saying that rangers damage was too high before now. IF some one had come to you and said some months ago ranger's damage is 50% too high you would have told them its a learn 2 play issue or that its just the quickness up time but the damage is fine.

    Oh and incase you are worried about "not having enough fear", discover Rune Of The Sunless. Summon Golem = Fear, right into Golem CC knockdown = Enormously powerful CC chain. And after the initial summon, each time you make the Golem Charge, he will fear the person first from a rather large radius, and then proceed to hit them with the follow knockdown. 45s CD, perfect for Golem Charge CD.

    This is actually creative idea but its not something ive seen done often at all, but tell me how is this any different from (to name a few)
    Basilisk Venom - Sunless rune - Attack for stun
    Facet of Chaos - Sunless rune - Chaotic Release
    Rampage - Sunless rune - any rampage skill
    Entangle - Sunless rune - any other cc

    You could combine this rune so many ways across a wide number of professions you literally cherry picked this into the argument without considering that other professions could also use this rune with similar results

    And this kitten about "no stability/prot uptime" and "not enough stun breaks" is bologna. I was using Blood line with Well Heal for over saturated heal factor due to life siphon and the trait in Spite that also consumes conditions upon use. Not only is this an absurd amount of heal factor but it also grants protection. You use the Well that grants Stability and is a stun break, for even more life siphon & stab & stun break. Then you use Plague Signet to deal with your condis and grant another stun break. This is very powerful with Spite Sig Trait, super fast recharge for the stun break an the condi clearing. It's seriously all you need for condi clear if you know how to aim and use skills at the right time. Between Well that grants stun break & stab, and Plague Sig, that's all you need for stun breaks and stab. Then you can use the Sig of Undeath. Run Barbarian or Paladin Amulet, with Sunless or either Rune of Eagle or Rune of Speed as alternatives. You want to use Axe/Warhorn as primary weapon set, then the 2nd is optional. Of course you want to run Death Magic for the toughness stacking and power stacking. Spite/Death/Blood. <- This build is already strong as hell. After this patch, it'll be in contestation for sure as the dominant side node.

    Ok first of all no one ever said there was not protection up time you made that bit up yourself
    The no stability up time is very much true though.

    Which well grants stability that can actually be used to fend off a cc Tervor?
    Well of power? The stunbreak "with a cast time" (bad design btw) that was often interrupted by cc chains so anet instead of making the well an instant stunbreak (like most other stunbreaks) put 1s application of stability to cover its cast time? That one? DO NOT i repeat DO NOT try to word it like the well pulses stability cause it does not do that and if you failed to notice that it means you have not been playing necromancer long enough.

    Moving on to your Spite / Death / Blood argument.
    This a strong bunker build but it lacks any real power especially if you run it with Barbarian or Paladin Amulet Which would dismiss your high dps while being tanky claims earlier. Ive ran this build before and even found a better version of it that what you are describing here and it still can be killed at the moment by any one person with high power burst dps 2 people ore more easily will melt it if it is stuck to the range of a capture point if you have any intention of defending it.

    Seriously though as i said at best some of the passive life force gain increases like Fear of death and even signet of Undeath could get nerfed as needed the future.

    I don't think some of you people are recognizing how much damage rolls off of casting Warhorn 5 + Well Heal + Well of Stab + Go into Shroud and 4. Seriously, the sustain that comes of that is larger than the actual heal skill, and the damage is pretty equivalent to a Reaper sin to win 4.

    Warhorn 5 use to be stronger tervor lets not even go there lol
    Well of stab? Are you making memes now?
    There is no way you have been playing necro long enough to know how it really feels to get nuked immediately on anything thats not the bunker setup.

    I honestly believe some of these Necro players are pigeonholed into train of thought of "I must use these certain skills because that is always what has been good." Branch off and try new things. Some of this stuff will soon be busted in terms of sustain factor.

    No necro players are pingion holed into using certain skills because not everyone wants to be a darn bunker tank and thats a play style only few really enjoy. Most importantly core necormancer has always lacked offensive pressure that reaper and even scourge at one point had and it was naturally pushed into a more tanky position.

    The fact that people even started tinkering with core was due to the over culling of scourge making near impossible to play in solo q. which allowed boon professions like firebrand, boon beast, etc to dominate cause they had nothing that could stop or suppress them like scourge could. Core was the next best option and hinges on players boons and boon corruption (for the most part) for is current viability. Both of which are being nerfed in the coming patch.

    Most people will take the damage option if you give them one though unlike every other profession who has damage options with insane sustain via not only healing but also through blocks, evades, invulns, stealth, etc necro does not have the latter making a MASSIVE GAP between its sustain with offensive builds compared to the other professions.

    Seriously try playing something thats not the bunker build you made up before the patch hits and you will realize how spoiled you have been while playing things like soulbeast meta.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lighter.2708 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    Sure it's speculation. However, with experience you can easily foresee what will happen. Just like it was easy to foresee that the change on the shade mechanism when they did it would be overkill in sPvP and PvE while it would need further nerfs in WvW. Just like when they release the runes effect that synergized well with barrier trait players already knew that it would be broken beyond belief.

    Just just need a minimum grasp of the game to predict what will happen. In case of the necromancer, even with all it's healing value reduced by 33% he would still see it's survivability effectively buffed by the damage reduction. Without, it's healing value reduced, it's foreseeable that he will be beyond everyone in sustain.

    Lol no, no experience can foresee what will happen when basically the entire game's changed by 180 degrees.
    you foresee stuff by using your experience and comparing how one specific change will interact with an environment you already very familiar with, that's called foreseeing with experience, which u can not do when the environment it's self is changed and has become unfamiliar with you, which makes your experience invalid.

    Well, you're worng, it's easy to foresee that the necromancer fair better in a "low damage" environment because experience already proved it. It's simple, a necromancer survive a lot better alone against an unorganized zerg (without boons) than against an organized zerg (with boons). It's basically the difference that the necromancer will face after the coefficient are touch but not it's sustain. Everything he will face will just feel like it got no boons (when they will be full buffed) while it's own sustain will be the same.

  • lighter.2708lighter.2708 Member ✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @lighter.2708 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    Sure it's speculation. However, with experience you can easily foresee what will happen. Just like it was easy to foresee that the change on the shade mechanism when they did it would be overkill in sPvP and PvE while it would need further nerfs in WvW. Just like when they release the runes effect that synergized well with barrier trait players already knew that it would be broken beyond belief.

    Just just need a minimum grasp of the game to predict what will happen. In case of the necromancer, even with all it's healing value reduced by 33% he would still see it's survivability effectively buffed by the damage reduction. Without, it's healing value reduced, it's foreseeable that he will be beyond everyone in sustain.

    Lol no, no experience can foresee what will happen when basically the entire game's changed by 180 degrees.
    you foresee stuff by using your experience and comparing how one specific change will interact with an environment you already very familiar with, that's called foreseeing with experience, which u can not do when the environment it's self is changed and has become unfamiliar with you, which makes your experience invalid.

    Well, you're worng, it's easy to foresee that the necromancer fair better in a "low damage" environment because experience already proved it. It's simple, a necromancer survive a lot better alone against an unorganized zerg (without boons) than against an organized zerg (with boons).

    All HP and toughness will be better in a "low damage" environment, what's your point, start shaving HP and tough for all classes by 30%?
    and not like necro's one of counter pressure is boon corrupting or anything
    and tell me who doesn't survive better against an unorganized zerg than against an organized zerg

  • Everyone yelling for a nerf when nobody realizes that we're all getting it. It's about freaking time. I haven't played PvP in years cause of how bad it was and with this I might just come back.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @lighter.2708 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    Sure it's speculation. However, with experience you can easily foresee what will happen. Just like it was easy to foresee that the change on the shade mechanism when they did it would be overkill in sPvP and PvE while it would need further nerfs in WvW. Just like when they release the runes effect that synergized well with barrier trait players already knew that it would be broken beyond belief.

    Just just need a minimum grasp of the game to predict what will happen. In case of the necromancer, even with all it's healing value reduced by 33% he would still see it's survivability effectively buffed by the damage reduction. Without, it's healing value reduced, it's foreseeable that he will be beyond everyone in sustain.

    Lol no, no experience can foresee what will happen when basically the entire game's changed by 180 degrees.
    you foresee stuff by using your experience and comparing how one specific change will interact with an environment you already very familiar with, that's called foreseeing with experience, which u can not do when the environment it's self is changed and has become unfamiliar with you, which makes your experience invalid.

    Well, you're worng, it's easy to foresee that the necromancer fair better in a "low damage" environment because experience already proved it. It's simple, a necromancer survive a lot better alone against an unorganized zerg (without boons) than against an organized zerg (with boons). It's basically the difference that the necromancer will face after the coefficient are touch but not it's sustain. Everything he will face will just feel like it got no boons (when they will be full buffed) while it's own sustain will be the same.

    Once again to some extent Dadnir is not wrong

    If it was just boons the necro sustain would be even better than what it is now with just a few corrupts successfully landing but thats not the case in a lot of situations.
    Necro does better in a low damage meta because the gap between damage soaking and damage evasion lowered.
    Damage soaking right now is not very viable because there is a finite number of times you would want to soak an 8k or 10k hit and doing so especially with something like shroud can chunk a massive amount of its total value based on the players vitality. Even with the damage reduction an 8k hit which is not hard for many professions to achieve in the current meta would roughly cost 4k shroud which can be anywhere from a 4th or a 5th of the total bar. Couple this with natural decay and if you are not 100% topped out in a lot of cases its very easy for many professions to burst a necromancers shroud off of them. But then you have people saying that life force gain is too high when alot of skills might not even generate what is lost in a single incoming hit in some cases.

    In a lower damage meta the impact on how much life force is lost from incoming damage is reduced allowing necromancers to take a larger number of hits which in a nutshell provides greater sustain by closing the gap between damage soaking (which it was more designed for) in comparison to damage evasion or blocking (which necro cannot do effectively but everyone else can)

    In the distant past people had a tendency to play around necromancers especially smaller fights with strategic moves this has long sense been forgotten as damage and boons scaled up because you didnt have to do those things anymore.
    There use to be specific strats/tips for dealing with necromancers especially in smaller situations like 1v1 or even 2v1 settings

    • dont hit them too much while spectral armor is up if you can help it (but by all means dont let them hit you for free)
    • do not blow all your burst into their shroud especially if the shroud meter is high (which was case by case kinda thing based on your profession)
    • cc the necromancer in shroud to prevent them from being able to attack (They are a pingpong ball and cant do anything about it)
    • burst them hard when shroud goes down
    • Do not use skills which grant stability unless you want to potentially be punished for it
    • Do not expect the fight to be ez if you are an ele because chill is a natural counter to ele's rotation (fight at your own risk or be smart about it)

    People dont follow these strategies now because the power creep lets you get by without. Even if necro gets more reductions in the future which it likely will due to complaints of specific builds i hope people will likely still have to get use to adopting these strategies again the game should require people to actively think and not just passively win based on who has the most one shot/ burst potential on auto pilot mode

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    I don't understand how this thread has 3 pages when the patch notes specifically say Foot in the Grave is being removed. If the necro is core, they are -absolutely free cc wise in shroud.- Even doom cannot interrupt you because it has a cast time now.

    You nail them with any daze or stun, they have to take the whole duration or drop shroud. Their sustain is far more exploitable than anyone else's at this time, even with the duration nerf, because of that stability cut.

    Not to mention their utilities for generating shroud got touched as well.

    Let them have the shroud. If it's too much out of the gate when we can actually have data on it, then we can start asking for shaves to it. Even if the shaves take a long time, then let them be busted levels of tanky for this iteration. They can't outsustain stunlocking.

    Necro.
    Was.
    Underperforming.
    Before.

    They had the hardest matchups in the game and they -still- got some QoL cuts. We built a whole focusing paradigm around them because of how easy to dispatch they were in a team fight.

    Just because everyone took a sustain hit does not mean they have to take a hit for thematic consistency, if they were underperforming before. Balance is the goal here. Do not forget that.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Well of Stab

    Just quipping well of power doesn't work like that. You get one stack of stab. one. for one second. to cover the fact that breakstun has a cast time.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Running Plague Signet with Signets of Suffering

    You sure about that? You're getting the whole stack if you pull a stack off someone, you're pulling two of them every 3 seconds, and you can't turn it off when in shroud. If anything condi-leaning sneezes within earshot you're going to find your shroud evaporating.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [I don't share builds!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    Reaper and scourge are garbage and so is core necro when it comes to higher tiers. If this is going to change by a balance patch it wont be for long.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Running Plague Signet with Signets of Suffering

    You sure about that? You're getting the whole stack if you pull a stack off someone, you're pulling two of them every 3 seconds, and you can't turn it off when in shroud. If anything condi-leaning sneezes within earshot you're going to find your shroud evaporating.

    Yeah, you use it before you go into shroud, that's the point, so that the shroud super recharges the stun break and cleanse. This is good rotation because the Plague Signet instantly refreshes your 30 stacks of carapace, which with Paladin Amulet = over 3000 armor value and PULSING PROTECTION. You actually want condis to go on you for this reason.

    I actually should make a video of this build I've been running. I don't know about conquest games, but in 1v1s this build wins over the course of time or at the very least, completely stalls a node. Post patch this build will be powerful.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Running Plague Signet with Signets of Suffering

    You sure about that? You're getting the whole stack if you pull a stack off someone, you're pulling two of them every 3 seconds, and you can't turn it off when in shroud. If anything condi-leaning sneezes within earshot you're going to find your shroud evaporating.

    Yeah, you use it before you go into shroud, that's the point, so that the shroud super recharges the stun break and cleanse. This is good rotation because the Plague Signet instantly refreshes your 30 stacks of carapace, which with Paladin Amulet = over 3000 armor value and PULSING PROTECTION. You actually want condis to go on you for this reason.

    Please re-read the signet trait. Even when your signet is on cooldown, then the passive will work in shroud and pull two condis every 3 seconds. So you have a 100% passive uptime when you plan to use it right before shroud. And you will constantly pull every trash flying around. 10s of chill, 20 vulnerability stacks, 10s of cripple, 10 bleeds, 15 torments, 5 burns ... signet necro: the lottery build.

    Traited plague signet kills you in every situation that is not a 1v1. This is one of the tradeoffs of the undeniably strong but situational signet trait.

    Side note: The rez signet cooldown bug has to be fixed as soon as possible. The current 11s shroud cooldown is insane. If it worked correctly the cooldown would be 19s, which is a much harder to achieve shroud camping time.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So let's see what everyone has to say about it now.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    So let's see what everyone has to say about it now.

    Sometimes you get things right lol

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) nom nom nom🥔
    Fun Daredevil

  • I suspected as well this might be an issue considering it did not get hit very much and in the end its now pretty much an everlasting meatwall.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've fought tanky necro's, they're pretty good against conditions but if you're berserker with a lot of burst potential and don't blow it while you have weakness, they are possible to down.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe it's cause I haven't encountered many outside of teamfight scenarios or +1s but they still seem p easy to kill. I'll have to see more as I keep playing.

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭

    This is music to my ears, the sweet sounds of tears from all those players that had thier untouchable professions in battle, mesmers, warriors, scrapper, FB's playing EZ mode classes using necros that were kept naked of all blocks, evades, invunerbility and mobility because "It had a 2nd life bar" as thier easy kill ego booster.

    Well the wheel of fortunes have turned my friends, necros are not your free kill anymore - get used to karma in the form of core necro! Stop being a bunch of hypocritical cry babies now that the shoe is on the other foot!

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 can I sign up to told you so too?
    I feel I deserve it for being laugh laughed at by 10+ people from necro forum for saying so ;p

  • core necro sustain is a complete joke srsly kitten

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2020

    @James.1065 said:
    This is music to my ears, the sweet sounds of tears from all those players that had thier untouchable professions in battle, mesmers, warriors, scrapper, FB's playing EZ mode classes using necros that were kept naked of all blocks, evades, invunerbility and mobility because "It had a 2nd life bar" as thier easy kill ego booster.

    Well the wheel of fortunes have turned my friends, necros are not your free kill anymore - get used to karma in the form of core necro! Stop being a bunch of hypocritical cry babies now that the shoe is on the other foot!

    You know that they announced more frequent balance patches in the future?
    Lel.

    Ive watched a necro in the pvp ffa arena facetank pretty much every other class without using his dodges, just standing in the same position. I dont think thats gonna be a thing for a long time.

    Edit:quoted wrong guy, oops

  • Bossun.2046Bossun.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    The true prophet

    sugoi monogatari oniichan

  • Only necros did not expect this. xD