Post patch pvp warrior/spellbreaker builds

What builds do you guys think will be most viable if you were to guess on the info given so far? Will ur previous builds see heavy changes?

Probably going to run meta still.Core tactics/str will end up healing a lot more than spellbreaker I think.Rune of Strength might not be ideal anymore but there are a few replacements like Rune of Evasion that still have synergy.Agility can be replaced with Battle/Courage and Annulment can be replaced with Ruthlessness on dagger.

With loss aversion nerf will revenge counter be more used? Or will guard counter see more use compared to no escape?

i'm thinking berserker will see more use.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i'm thinking berserker will see more use.

i doubt,warrior in general will never compete for ganks with rev, mes, thief.and berserker will never compete with support healers.so only side noder, then why would you play berserker instead of spellbreaker, berserker is so much more prone to ganks then spellbreaker.only way for berserker to be good, would be overtuned numbers, but then why would u play spellbreaker/core war if berserker is better for side nodes..

literally, berserker is in a perfect position right now for anet to give a new role for warrior, ganks, -300 toughness literally make warrior paper like light class..but they won't do it...

From a WvW perspective:

I am moving from Spellbreaker back to Core Warrior, with the reduced damage and increased cool-downs, I really think the T3 bursts and Berserker's Power on Core Warrior will still keep damage high enough to kill fast enough. Right now I can do the same thing on Spellbreaker but with more tanky-ness and the same level of damage, that wont be the case post patch.

I think more Spellbreakers will become CC/Boon Rip specialists (buffed Hammer) and see more use in Zergs/Organized Small Scale than solo roaming.

I also expect Trailblazer Condi-Berserker to make a come back.

@sneakytails.5629 said:From a WvW perspective:

I am moving from Spellbreaker back to Core Warrior, with the reduced damage and increased cool-downs, I really think the T3 bursts and Berserker's Power on Core Warrior will still keep damage high enough to kill fast enough. Right now I can do the same thing on Spellbreaker but with more tanky-ness and the same level of damage, that wont be the case post patch.

I think more Spellbreakers will become CC/Boon Rip specialists (buffed Hammer) and see more use in Zergs/Organized Small Scale than solo roaming.

I also expect Trailblazer Condi-Berserker to make a come back.

This. Warrior condition barely got touched, so the tankier Condi stats should roll well.

Things I've been thinking about are (PVP Only BTW, Don't really do WvW)

• You may need battle and courage on GS, maybe revocation. Probably picking between battle, courage, energy, cleansing, and revocation
• Honestly the elite signet looks decent. Could be something worth toying with
• Stomp is really enticing at 24s CD, but still not sure if you take it over Frenzy or Bulls Charge.
• Shake it off CD increase may hurt. Due to this, I'm wondering if something like Frenzy/Signet of Stamina, and Stomp may be the three utilities. Could probably still fit BC in there.

This is a difficult question to answer. The game is undergoing a fundamental transformation and we just don't know where that is going to leave the state of balance. However, based on the changes I see for Warrior compared to other classes, I think we can draw a few conclusions.

So to start, I feel that Warrior got off pretty light compared to a lot of the other classes. I'll make a short list of what I feel will have the greatest impact.

Weapon skills: The Warrior's meta weapons were hardly touched. Namely, greatsword, MH axe, MH dagger, and shield all escaped any major CD nerfs (MH dagger was actually potentially buffed). I feel this is really significant as many classes had important weapons cooldowns substantially increased. Overall, these already highly competitive weapons retained most of their damage and will likely be as good as they are now, or potentially even better (relative to other professions), post-patch.

Healing skills: Again, here the Warrior got off pretty light I feel. As we all know, there are only really two viable options for healing currently, Healing Signet and Mending. This patch won't change that and both of these skills seemed to receive relatively very minor nerfs. It's hard to say which will be better post-patch, but clearly they will still be on top.

Utility skills: I think this is where we start to see some clear winners and losers with changes that will shake up the current Warrior meta. So to start, Shake It Off I see as likely no longer being viable. The massive cooldown increase coupled with the reduction in condi removal means this skill will likely be outclassed. Additionally, if the patch does what Anet intends it to do and reduces the amount of condi burst, skills like this won't be as necessary to have on your bar. Luckily, I feel this is the only utility skill receiving a major nerf. I see the big winners here as Endure Pain, Featherfoot Grace/Berserker Stance, and Bull's Charge. I think we will see most Warrior bars carrying these skills.

Elite skills: Rampage will still be great, however I am really excited about Signet of Rage. This skill definitely received a major buff and, considering how difficult might will be to come by, having an instant 20 stacks at the press of a button will be very strong. Yes, it will only last 4 seconds (probably closer to 6 after runes) but this will allow for a well timed burst of damage in addition to having much better synergy with skills like Might Makes Right. To top it off, the cooldown is being reduced to 40 seconds from 60. Definitely a big win.

Now for the trait lines (only going to cover the one's relevant to the current viable PvP builds)

Strength: Okay so this is the big one. As we know, the Strength tree has been the core of meta Warrior builds for about the past two or so years (thanks in part to Defense not keeping up with powercreep). However, the Strength tree is a very well designed and versatile in its own right. The question is, will it retain its meta position post-patch. The most significant change is to Might Makes Right which had its healing essential reduced by about 50%. In addition, some sources of might generation were nerfed that may reduce the synergy the skill has with Warrior as a whole. I really can't predict how this skill will perform post-patch. On one hand, Warrior still has ALOT of might generation, and relative to other classes, seems to have retained most of its might generating capabilities (kind of a class theme). In addition, the massive buff to Signet of Rage provides yet another opportunity for synergy. Considering that the endurance gain remained untouched, I believe that this skill will remain meta-defining post-patch. However, it will really come down to how it will measure up against the sustain of other classes, as well as how the value of a dodge roll will change. Overall, the Strength tree remained virtually untouched and will likely continue to be meta-defining.

Defense: Poor Defense, keeps getting shafted when it isn't even that good. To start, Defy Pain and Last Stand were both MEGA nerfed and will likely never see the light of day again. I mean, 300s cooldowns... these traits simply don't provide enough outside their active components to be worth taking. Shield Master had it's might duration reduced to 1 second, which I find as a very strange change. The might will last long enough to maybe use one or two skills right after blocking, 4 or 5 seconds feels like it would have been more appropriate. I don't see this has a huge nerf, however, as the CD reduction and reflects are what really makes this trait strong. Finally, Adrenal Health actually got off pretty lightly with only a small reduction in healing. Which, considering the trait was already struggling, I think is more than fair. Notably, Cleansing Ire, a trait that I feel has been on the brink of viability, received no nerfs. Overally, Defense definitely received some hard nerfs, but the relative strength of Adrenal Health and potentially Cleansing Ire post-patch may be enough to bring Defense back from obscurity. Only time will tell on this one.

Discipline: No nerfs, as strong as ever, still essential.

Berserker: Again, no significant nerfs really. However, I feel game trending towards less burst damage overall may hurt Berserker indirectly.

Spellbreaker: Another powerhouse that has defined the Warrior meta since its release. The only notable nerf here is to Mage Bane Tether, and I think a lot of us saw this coming. The might gain has been reduced to 1 stack meaning, at most, it will gain you 8 stacks of might over the duration of the 8 second tether. However, consider how every class had its might generation significantly nerfed, 8 stacks of might on a 12 second cooldown may end up being pretty decent. Will this provide enough synergy with Might Makes Right to maintain the current Strength Spellbreaker meta? I don't know the answer to that question and it depends on how the powerlevel of the other classes ends up panning out.

So, in conclusion, yes Strength Spellbreaker will probably remain the meta. However, I would keep an eye on Defense as, post-patch, it may provide quite a bit of sustain that may see a return to the old Defense Spellbreaker or even Core warrior. As for more fringe builds like condi and power Berserker, I don't have enough experience with these builds to really say, but I see no reason why they would be any more viable than they are now. But again, so much is changing so who really knows.

@Girth.9731 said:So, in conclusion, yes Strength Spellbreaker will probably remain the meta. However, I would keep an eye on Defense as, post-patch, it may provide quite a bit of sustain that may see a return to the old Defense Spellbreaker or even Core warrior. As for more fringe builds like condi and power Berserker, I don't have enough experience with these builds to really say, but I see no reason why they would be any more viable than they are now. But again, so much is changing so who really knows.

Super detailed and helpful post! Will be interested to get your thoughts once the patch hits :)

@Tycura.1982 said:Probably going to run meta still.Core tactics/str will end up healing a lot more than spellbreaker I think.Rune of Strength might not be ideal anymore but there are a few replacements like Rune of Evasion that still have synergy.Agility can be replaced with Battle/Courage and Annulment can be replaced with Ruthlessness on dagger.

Rune of Strength will likely remain viable due to the reduced duration on Might and the more limited application of it. It looks as if they want to promote more set up for burst opportunities rather than everything being relatively bursty. So it could transition into something akin to building a viable stack of Might + Swiftness damage bonus (Signet of Rage) > Bull's Charge for Peak Performance > Axe 2 (For Fury > Eviscerate. Which is similar to how things are now, it just won't be like a total of 10k+ damage just from Bull's Charge and Axe 2.

@Girth.9731 said:This is a difficult question to answer. The game is undergoing a fundamental transformation and we just don't know where that is going to leave the state of balance. However, based on the changes I see for Warrior compared to other classes, I think we can draw a few conclusions.

So to start, I feel that Warrior got off pretty light compared to a lot of the other classes. I'll make a short list of what I feel will have the greatest impact.

Weapon skills: The Warrior's meta weapons were hardly touched. Namely, greatsword, MH axe, MH dagger, and shield all escaped any major CD nerfs (MH dagger was actually potentially buffed). I feel this is really significant as many classes had important weapons cooldowns substantially increased. Overall, these already highly competitive weapons retained most of their damage and will likely be as good as they are now, or potentially even better (relative to other professions), post-patch.

Healing skills: Again, here the Warrior got off pretty light I feel. As we all know, there are only really two viable options for healing currently, Healing Signet and Mending. This patch won't change that and both of these skills seemed to receive relatively very minor nerfs. It's hard to say which will be better post-patch, but clearly they will still be on top.

Utility skills: I think this is where we start to see some clear winners and losers with changes that will shake up the current Warrior meta. So to start, Shake It Off I see as likely no longer being viable. The massive cooldown increase coupled with the reduction in condi removal means this skill will likely be outclassed. Additionally, if the patch does what Anet intends it to do and reduces the amount of condi burst, skills like this won't be as necessary to have on your bar. Luckily, I feel this is the only utility skill receiving a major nerf. I see the big winners here as Endure Pain, Featherfoot Grace/Berserker Stance, and Bull's Charge. I think we will see most Warrior bars carrying these skills.

Elite skills: Rampage will still be great, however I am really excited about Signet of Rage. This skill definitely received a major buff and, considering how difficult might will be to come by, having an instant 20 stacks at the press of a button will be very strong. Yes, it will only last 4 seconds (probably closer to 6 after runes) but this will allow for a well timed burst of damage in addition to having much better synergy with skills like Might Makes Right. To top it off, the cooldown is being reduced to 40 seconds from 60. Definitely a big win.

Now for the trait lines (only going to cover the one's relevant to the current viable PvP builds)

Strength: Okay so this is the big one. As we know, the Strength tree has been the core of meta Warrior builds for about the past two or so years (thanks in part to Defense not keeping up with powercreep). However, the Strength tree is a very well designed and versatile in its own right. The question is, will it retain its meta position post-patch. The most significant change is to Might Makes Right which had its healing essential reduced by about 50%. In addition, some sources of might generation were nerfed that may reduce the synergy the skill has with Warrior as a whole. I really can't predict how this skill will perform post-patch. On one hand, Warrior still has ALOT of might generation, and relative to other classes, seems to have retained most of its might generating capabilities (kind of a class theme). In addition, the massive buff to Signet of Rage provides yet another opportunity for synergy. Considering that the endurance gain remained untouched, I believe that this skill will remain meta-defining post-patch. However, it will really come down to how it will measure up against the sustain of other classes, as well as how the value of a dodge roll will change. Overall, the Strength tree remained virtually untouched and will likely continue to be meta-defining.

Defense: Poor Defense, keeps getting shafted when it isn't even that good. To start, Defy Pain and Last Stand were both MEGA nerfed and will likely never see the light of day again. I mean, 300s cooldowns... these traits simply don't provide enough outside their active components to be worth taking. Shield Master had it's might duration reduced to 1 second, which I find as a very strange change. The might will last long enough to maybe use one or two skills right after blocking, 4 or 5 seconds feels like it would have been more appropriate. I don't see this has a huge nerf, however, as the CD reduction and reflects are what really makes this trait strong. Finally, Adrenal Health actually got off pretty lightly with only a small reduction in healing. Which, considering the trait was already struggling, I think is more than fair. Notably, Cleansing Ire, a trait that I feel has been on the brink of viability, received no nerfs. Overally, Defense definitely received some hard nerfs, but the relative strength of Adrenal Health and potentially Cleansing Ire post-patch may be enough to bring Defense back from obscurity. Only time will tell on this one.

Discipline: No nerfs, as strong as ever, still essential.

Berserker: Again, no significant nerfs really. However, I feel game trending towards less burst damage overall may hurt Berserker indirectly.

Spellbreaker: Another powerhouse that has defined the Warrior meta since its release. The only notable nerf here is to Mage Bane Tether, and I think a lot of us saw this coming. The might gain has been reduced to 1 stack meaning, at most, it will gain you 8 stacks of might over the duration of the 8 second tether. However, consider how every class had its might generation significantly nerfed, 8 stacks of might on a 12 second cooldown may end up being pretty decent. Will this provide enough synergy with Might Makes Right to maintain the current Strength Spellbreaker meta? I don't know the answer to that question and it depends on how the powerlevel of the other classes ends up panning out.

So, in conclusion, yes Strength Spellbreaker will probably remain the meta. However, I would keep an eye on Defense as, post-patch, it may provide quite a bit of sustain that may see a return to the old Defense Spellbreaker or even Core warrior. As for more fringe builds like condi and power Berserker, I don't have enough experience with these builds to really say, but I see no reason why they would be any more viable than they are now. But again, so much is changing so who really knows.

Healing sig from 344 to 230...thats a big nerf, paired with mmr halfed this cuts sustain alot.

You need to generate 2 stacks of might per second just to get the old healing sig value back, and to get the same value per second of healing sig and 1 stack might you have to get 4 stacks of might per second.

The fact that cc's will become alot more valuable will also mean that some arms traits will be alot more valuable (looking at unsuspecting foes ofc)

Also, why need sustain when your opponent wont do dmg to you, because he is in a stunlock?Hammer and merciless hammer will be very interesting to take a look at. Less stab, less stunbreaks, less dodges, less block, less invulns.

Also, cmc already confirmed that 300sec passives are just placeholder for future changes. The thing is, that the balance team cant rly change mechanics, they can mostly change numbers. So they will have to wait for the design team to come up with new passive traits.

Edit: stomp is gonna be nerfed real quick, 24s on a stunbreak? Even outrage has 25.Stomp also sets up follow up dmg, gives stab, can be used to knock away downstates and even gives stab for a stomp if you hit like 3 ppl.

healing sig hasn't been a thing for ahwile. Ever since every class can burst a warrior.

i don't think might will be a problem, you are just going to have to work around it with sigils.

But if it is a problem strength runes wont fix it. You better off running scholar runes, like a normal person.

Warrior CC has been already nerfed so many times before. I don't think warrior depends on CC to to damage and warrior is just using it to set up bursts.

If you want to play power you need full berserker, no more mara you wont do damage.

Condi war could be a thing but probably only for small scale, and not vs any group with support.

@Warlord.9074 said:healing sig hasn't been a thing for ahwile. Ever since every class can burst a warrior.

i don't think might will be a problem, you are just going to have to work around it with sigils.

But if it is a problem strength runes wont fix it. You better off running scholar runes, like a normal person.

Warrior CC has been already nerfed so many times before. I don't think warrior depends on CC to to damage and warrior is just using it to set up bursts.

If you want to play power you need full berserker, no more mara you wont do damage.

Condi war could be a thing but probably only for small scale, and not vs any group with support.

Mara/Zerk still easily supplies enough power to deal damage. You only lose like 63 Power when running Mara/Zerk gear, thats not a very significant drop in damage.

Using the damage formula with the new coefficients with the max potential damage on axe using 3 bar Eviscerate as an example;Full Zerk w/ Strength Runes1100 x 2766 x 2.0 / 2597 = 2343Mara Armor/Zerk Weapons +Trinkets w/ Strength Runes1100 x 2703 x 2.0 / 2597 = 2289

The difference in damage really only ranges from like 50 to 60 damage. As for full Mara vs full Zerk, I can't think of any Warrior worth a damn that actually runs full Mara. That does see a larger dropoff in damage, you lose about 200 or so damage for running full Mara.

It's more than power, you lose a lot of ferocity going mara. It's around a 20% damage loss now. You also lose a lot of dammage going strength runes over running scholar.

@"Warlord.9074" said:It's more than power, you lose a lot of ferocity going mara. It's around a 20% damage loss now. You also lose a lot of dammage going strength runes over running scholar.

Sure, there is a drop in ferocity as well. Its a loss of about 8% Ferocity. So taking those previous numbers as examples and assuming a hit is a crit;

Full Zerk2343 x 214.07% = 7358Mara/Zerk2289 x 206.87% = 7024

So there is a loss in crit damage for sure. A little under 300.

As for Scholar over Strength; Scholar is far too inconsistent, especially with Warrior sustain getting cut down as much as it is. Strength is more reliable and helps maintain Might better as opposed to needing to maintain above 90% health if you want your damage to be boosted. Actually I can't think of the last time I've even heard Scholar runes brought up for Warrior in a while, Strength Runes have always been a go to as well as Durability Runes. Even with TTK going up I don't think Scholar will see a surge into use (or I guess in your opinion "normal" people typically use Scholar), Strength is more versatile and has better utility. Same with Durability. Also running that squishy with Warrior's passives being taken out as well as its sustain getting halved might not be the best of ideas, you won't have those tools to carry a full zerk scholar rune Warrior through fights. Even with power damage coming down you will still likely get dumpstered pretty hard.

So we'll see how things play out. There is theory that health and Toughness are likely to be more valuable with power damage coming down and the concern over Conditions will potentially make more health more appealing.

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Girth.9731 said:This is a difficult question to answer. The game is undergoing a fundamental transformation and we just don't know where that is going to leave the state of balance. However, based on the changes I see for Warrior compared to other classes, I think we can draw a few conclusions.

So to start, I feel that Warrior got off pretty light compared to a lot of the other classes. I'll make a short list of what I feel will have the greatest impact.

Weapon skills

: The Warrior's meta weapons were hardly touched. Namely, greatsword, MH axe, MH dagger, and shield all escaped any major CD nerfs (MH dagger was actually potentially buffed). I feel this is really significant as many classes had important weapons cooldowns substantially increased. Overall, these already highly competitive weapons retained most of their damage and will likely be as good as they are now, or potentially even better (relative to other professions), post-patch.

Healing skills

: Again, here the Warrior got off pretty light I feel. As we all know, there are only really two viable options for healing currently, Healing Signet and Mending. This patch won't change that and both of these skills seemed to receive relatively very minor nerfs. It's hard to say which will be better post-patch, but clearly they will still be on top.

Utility skills

: I think this is where we start to see some clear winners and losers with changes that will shake up the current Warrior meta. So to start, Shake It Off I see as likely no longer being viable. The massive cooldown increase coupled with the reduction in condi removal means this skill will likely be outclassed. Additionally, if the patch does what Anet intends it to do and reduces the amount of condi burst, skills like this won't be as necessary to have on your bar. Luckily, I feel this is the only utility skill receiving a major nerf. I see the big winners here as Endure Pain, Featherfoot Grace/Berserker Stance, and Bull's Charge. I think we will see most Warrior bars carrying these skills.

Elite skills

: Rampage will still be great, however I am really excited about Signet of Rage. This skill definitely received a major buff and, considering how difficult might will be to come by, having an instant 20 stacks at the press of a button will be very strong. Yes, it will only last 4 seconds (probably closer to 6 after runes) but this will allow for a well timed burst of damage in addition to having much better synergy with skills like Might Makes Right. To top it off, the cooldown is being reduced to 40 seconds from 60. Definitely a big win.

Now for the trait lines (only going to cover the one's relevant to the current viable PvP builds)

Strength

: Okay so this is the big one. As we know, the Strength tree has been the core of meta Warrior builds for about the past two or so years (thanks in part to Defense not keeping up with powercreep). However, the Strength tree is a very well designed and versatile in its own right. The question is, will it retain its meta position post-patch. The most significant change is to Might Makes Right which had its healing essential reduced by about 50%. In addition, some sources of might generation were nerfed that may reduce the synergy the skill has with Warrior as a whole. I really can't predict how this skill will perform post-patch. On one hand, Warrior still has ALOT of might generation, and relative to other classes, seems to have retained most of its might generating capabilities (kind of a class theme). In addition, the massive buff to Signet of Rage provides yet another opportunity for synergy. Considering that the endurance gain remained untouched, I believe that this skill will remain meta-defining post-patch. However, it will really come down to how it will measure up against the sustain of other classes, as well as how the value of a dodge roll will change. Overall, the Strength tree remained virtually untouched and will likely continue to be meta-defining.

Defense

: Poor Defense, keeps getting shafted when it isn't even that good. To start, Defy Pain and Last Stand were both MEGA nerfed and will likely never see the light of day again. I mean, 300s cooldowns... these traits simply don't provide enough outside their active components to be worth taking. Shield Master had it's might duration reduced to 1 second, which I find as a very strange change. The might will last long enough to maybe use one or two skills right after blocking, 4 or 5 seconds feels like it would have been more appropriate. I don't see this has a huge nerf, however, as the CD reduction and reflects are what really makes this trait strong. Finally, Adrenal Health actually got off pretty lightly with only a small reduction in healing. Which, considering the trait was already struggling, I think is more than fair. Notably, Cleansing Ire, a trait that I feel has been on the brink of viability, received no nerfs. Overally, Defense definitely received some hard nerfs, but the relative strength of Adrenal Health and potentially Cleansing Ire post-patch may be enough to bring Defense back from obscurity. Only time will tell on this one.

Discipline

: No nerfs, as strong as ever, still essential.

Berserker

: Again, no significant nerfs really. However, I feel game trending towards less burst damage overall may hurt Berserker indirectly.

Spellbreaker

: Another powerhouse that has defined the Warrior meta since its release. The only notable nerf here is to Mage Bane Tether, and I think a lot of us saw this coming. The might gain has been reduced to 1 stack meaning, at most, it will gain you 8 stacks of might over the duration of the 8 second tether. However, consider how every class had its might generation significantly nerfed, 8 stacks of might on a 12 second cooldown may end up being pretty decent. Will this provide enough synergy with Might Makes Right to maintain the current Strength Spellbreaker meta? I don't know the answer to that question and it depends on how the powerlevel of the other classes ends up panning out.

So, in conclusion, yes Strength Spellbreaker will probably remain the meta. However, I would keep an eye on Defense as, post-patch, it may provide quite a bit of sustain that may see a return to the old Defense Spellbreaker or even Core warrior. As for more fringe builds like condi and power Berserker, I don't have enough experience with these builds to really say, but I see no reason why they would be any more viable than they are now. But again, so much is changing so who really knows.

No actually, if you do a simple search to compare how Warrior heals were changed compared to other classes, you will find that both the Healing Signet nerf and Might Makes Right nerf were quite tame comparably. I did some quick math and found that they reduced most heals in the game to anywhere between 50% to 70% of their current values. Obviously cooldown, raw heal amount, and coefficient's play into this so the math probably isn't perfect, but I was able to make the approximation and you can try it for yourself with a calculator. So Healing Signet had its healing reduced to about 67% of its original value, which relatively, isn't that bad. For comparison, Heal Turret for Engineer had its cooldown increased to 30 seconds from 20 seconds which, if you do the math, you will find is equivalent to about a 66% reduction in healing. Some other skills got off way worse. So yeah, it sounds bad, but relatively it really isn't.

EDIT: Also, your statement about the amount of might you would need to match the old healing is a little misleading as it makes it sounds as it the overall healing was reduced to 25%. I did some math that might help clarify and show you the changes really aren't that bad.

So let's assume an average might generation rate of 1 might per seconds over 10 seconds and see how much we end up healing over those 10 seconds with the old and new values.

NEW: 230 x 10 + 64 x 10 = 2940 healing over 10 seconds

OLD: 344 x 10 + 133 x 10 = 4770 healing over 10 seconds

So, in this situation the new values would lead to 62% of the original healing value. Which, is roughly in line with how other classes had their healing toned down. Also, lets not forget that the endurance gain from Might Makes Right was not changed, which is a considerable aspect of the trait's sustain.

@Girth.9731 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Girth.9731 said:This is a difficult question to answer. The game is undergoing a fundamental transformation and we just don't know where that is going to leave the state of balance. However, based on the changes I see for Warrior compared to other classes, I think we can draw a few conclusions.

So to start, I feel that Warrior got off pretty light compared to a lot of the other classes. I'll make a short list of what I feel will have the greatest impact.

Weapon skills

: The Warrior's meta weapons were hardly touched. Namely, greatsword, MH axe, MH dagger, and shield all escaped any major CD nerfs (MH dagger was actually potentially buffed). I feel this is really significant as many classes had important weapons cooldowns substantially increased. Overall, these already highly competitive weapons retained most of their damage and will likely be as good as they are now, or potentially even better (relative to other professions), post-patch.

Healing skills

: Again, here the Warrior got off pretty light I feel. As we all know, there are only really two viable options for healing currently, Healing Signet and Mending. This patch won't change that and both of these skills seemed to receive relatively very minor nerfs. It's hard to say which will be better post-patch, but clearly they will still be on top.

Utility skills

: I think this is where we start to see some clear winners and losers with changes that will shake up the current Warrior meta. So to start, Shake It Off I see as likely no longer being viable. The massive cooldown increase coupled with the reduction in condi removal means this skill will likely be outclassed. Additionally, if the patch does what Anet intends it to do and reduces the amount of condi burst, skills like this won't be as necessary to have on your bar. Luckily, I feel this is the only utility skill receiving a major nerf. I see the big winners here as Endure Pain, Featherfoot Grace/Berserker Stance, and Bull's Charge. I think we will see most Warrior bars carrying these skills.

Elite skills

: Rampage will still be great, however I am really excited about Signet of Rage. This skill definitely received a major buff and, considering how difficult might will be to come by, having an instant 20 stacks at the press of a button will be very strong. Yes, it will only last 4 seconds (probably closer to 6 after runes) but this will allow for a well timed burst of damage in addition to having much better synergy with skills like Might Makes Right. To top it off, the cooldown is being reduced to 40 seconds from 60. Definitely a big win.

Now for the trait lines (only going to cover the one's relevant to the current viable PvP builds)

Strength

: Okay so this is the big one. As we know, the Strength tree has been the core of meta Warrior builds for about the past two or so years (thanks in part to Defense not keeping up with powercreep). However, the Strength tree is a very well designed and versatile in its own right. The question is, will it retain its meta position post-patch. The most significant change is to Might Makes Right which had its healing essential reduced by about 50%. In addition, some sources of might generation were nerfed that may reduce the synergy the skill has with Warrior as a whole. I really can't predict how this skill will perform post-patch. On one hand, Warrior still has ALOT of might generation, and relative to other classes, seems to have retained most of its might generating capabilities (kind of a class theme). In addition, the massive buff to Signet of Rage provides yet another opportunity for synergy. Considering that the endurance gain remained untouched, I believe that this skill will remain meta-defining post-patch. However, it will really come down to how it will measure up against the sustain of other classes, as well as how the value of a dodge roll will change. Overall, the Strength tree remained virtually untouched and will likely continue to be meta-defining.

Defense

: Poor Defense, keeps getting shafted when it isn't even that good. To start, Defy Pain and Last Stand were both MEGA nerfed and will likely never see the light of day again. I mean, 300s cooldowns... these traits simply don't provide enough outside their active components to be worth taking. Shield Master had it's might duration reduced to 1 second, which I find as a very strange change. The might will last long enough to maybe use one or two skills right after blocking, 4 or 5 seconds feels like it would have been more appropriate. I don't see this has a huge nerf, however, as the CD reduction and reflects are what really makes this trait strong. Finally, Adrenal Health actually got off pretty lightly with only a small reduction in healing. Which, considering the trait was already struggling, I think is more than fair. Notably, Cleansing Ire, a trait that I feel has been on the brink of viability, received no nerfs. Overally, Defense definitely received some hard nerfs, but the relative strength of Adrenal Health and potentially Cleansing Ire post-patch may be enough to bring Defense back from obscurity. Only time will tell on this one.

Discipline

: No nerfs, as strong as ever, still essential.

Berserker

: Again, no significant nerfs really. However, I feel game trending towards less burst damage overall may hurt Berserker indirectly.

Spellbreaker

: Another powerhouse that has defined the Warrior meta since its release. The only notable nerf here is to Mage Bane Tether, and I think a lot of us saw this coming. The might gain has been reduced to 1 stack meaning, at most, it will gain you 8 stacks of might over the duration of the 8 second tether. However, consider how every class had its might generation significantly nerfed, 8 stacks of might on a 12 second cooldown may end up being pretty decent. Will this provide enough synergy with Might Makes Right to maintain the current Strength Spellbreaker meta? I don't know the answer to that question and it depends on how the powerlevel of the other classes ends up panning out.

So, in conclusion, yes Strength Spellbreaker will probably remain the meta. However, I would keep an eye on Defense as, post-patch, it may provide quite a bit of sustain that may see a return to the old Defense Spellbreaker or even Core warrior. As for more fringe builds like condi and power Berserker, I don't have enough experience with these builds to really say, but I see no reason why they would be any more viable than they are now. But again, so much is changing so who really knows.

Value for mending went up assuming you're traited for it. Currently heal sig is 4472 per 13 seconds vs Mending 6520 per 12+1 cast. Post patch it will be 3910 per 17 vs 6520 per 16+1 cast.

The merit of sig is a lack of a cast time vs mending because someone can capitalize on your 1 second cast especially in a 1v1 on point. Downside is you lose out on more healing. Post patch makes mending even more attractive especially since condi might rear it's ugly head.

Sig will still be my favoriteNo cast timeCancels out condi damage under its healing per secresistance boon might stick around since annulment is removed

Mending can become less healing value with a single landed bladetrail during the castIn my experience a heal sig warrior can scrap a lot better than a mending war. The mending ones always about face away and give up the point to not get their cast interrupted.

Only talking sPvP here. I'm thinking something like: gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAc6FlJwSYYsRGKOWX+PdA-z5gfKNKEKVBUwIojJgKGA

Considering swapping out a few things based on how good they are or not:

•Mending - Will just swap back to healing signet if the increased CD on mending is that big of a deal. 230(cut by 1/3 with poison) a second just sounds pretty meh and I wanna see how much better or worse mending is after.•Bull's Charge - May swap out for stomp because of the shorter CD. Still a gap closer and setup for evis/arcing slice. OR Signet of Stamina since that's untouched.•Slow counter - I'm pretty split on this, I probably won't take it in all honesty. Will switch back to loss aversion if adrenaline is a problem. 2 Seconds of slow when Full Counter's daze duration is getting increased to 2 seconds Pepega•Demloisher's Ammy - Honestly considering Zerker ammy instead since damage is going down across the board and because of the reduction to 4-stat ammies.

When it comes to general playstyle differences...

•Generally I don't think mainhand Dagger is going to "cut" it anymore when it comes to damage hehe•Getting people low enough for arcing slice is going to be a challenge too with 100b seeming more like 100tickles on paper. I don't think warrior's are going to use this skill too much post-patch because it'l be a wasted setup. Maybe to cleave, but at that damage I think it's very possible for someone rezzing to heal for a lot more than the damage you'd be doing. It's a shame really because this is such a cool skill; always has been, but even now people usually just commit to like the first 2-3 swings then immediately bail into another skill.

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Girth.9731 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Girth.9731 said:This is a difficult question to answer. The game is undergoing a fundamental transformation and we just don't know where that is going to leave the state of balance. However, based on the changes I see for Warrior compared to other classes, I think we can draw a few conclusions.

So to start, I feel that Warrior got off pretty light compared to a lot of the other classes. I'll make a short list of what I feel will have the greatest impact.

Weapon skills

: The Warrior's meta weapons were hardly touched. Namely, greatsword, MH axe, MH dagger, and shield all escaped any major CD nerfs (MH dagger was actually potentially buffed). I feel this is really significant as many classes had important weapons cooldowns substantially increased. Overall, these already highly competitive weapons retained most of their damage and will likely be as good as they are now, or potentially even better (relative to other professions), post-patch.

Healing skills

: Again, here the Warrior got off pretty light I feel. As we all know, there are only really two viable options for healing currently, Healing Signet and Mending. This patch won't change that and both of these skills seemed to receive relatively very minor nerfs. It's hard to say which will be better post-patch, but clearly they will still be on top.

Utility skills

: I think this is where we start to see some clear winners and losers with changes that will shake up the current Warrior meta. So to start, Shake It Off I see as likely no longer being viable. The massive cooldown increase coupled with the reduction in condi removal means this skill will likely be outclassed. Additionally, if the patch does what Anet intends it to do and reduces the amount of condi burst, skills like this won't be as necessary to have on your bar. Luckily, I feel this is the only utility skill receiving a major nerf. I see the big winners here as Endure Pain, Featherfoot Grace/Berserker Stance, and Bull's Charge. I think we will see most Warrior bars carrying these skills.

Elite skills

: Rampage will still be great, however I am really excited about Signet of Rage. This skill definitely received a major buff and, considering how difficult might will be to come by, having an instant 20 stacks at the press of a button will be very strong. Yes, it will only last 4 seconds (probably closer to 6 after runes) but this will allow for a well timed burst of damage in addition to having much better synergy with skills like Might Makes Right. To top it off, the cooldown is being reduced to 40 seconds from 60. Definitely a big win.

Now for the trait lines (only going to cover the one's relevant to the current viable PvP builds)

Strength

: Okay so this is the big one. As we know, the Strength tree has been the core of meta Warrior builds for about the past two or so years (thanks in part to Defense not keeping up with powercreep). However, the Strength tree is a very well designed and versatile in its own right. The question is, will it retain its meta position post-patch. The most significant change is to Might Makes Right which had its healing essential reduced by about 50%. In addition, some sources of might generation were nerfed that may reduce the synergy the skill has with Warrior as a whole. I really can't predict how this skill will perform post-patch. On one hand, Warrior still has ALOT of might generation, and relative to other classes, seems to have retained most of its might generating capabilities (kind of a class theme). In addition, the massive buff to Signet of Rage provides yet another opportunity for synergy. Considering that the endurance gain remained untouched, I believe that this skill will remain meta-defining post-patch. However, it will really come down to how it will measure up against the sustain of other classes, as well as how the value of a dodge roll will change. Overall, the Strength tree remained virtually untouched and will likely continue to be meta-defining.

Defense

: Poor Defense, keeps getting shafted when it isn't even that good. To start, Defy Pain and Last Stand were both MEGA nerfed and will likely never see the light of day again. I mean, 300s cooldowns... these traits simply don't provide enough outside their active components to be worth taking. Shield Master had it's might duration reduced to 1 second, which I find as a very strange change. The might will last long enough to maybe use one or two skills right after blocking, 4 or 5 seconds feels like it would have been more appropriate. I don't see this has a huge nerf, however, as the CD reduction and reflects are what really makes this trait strong. Finally, Adrenal Health actually got off pretty lightly with only a small reduction in healing. Which, considering the trait was already struggling, I think is more than fair. Notably, Cleansing Ire, a trait that I feel has been on the brink of viability, received no nerfs. Overally, Defense definitely received some hard nerfs, but the relative strength of Adrenal Health and potentially Cleansing Ire post-patch may be enough to bring Defense back from obscurity. Only time will tell on this one.

Discipline

: No nerfs, as strong as ever, still essential.

Berserker

: Again, no significant nerfs really. However, I feel game trending towards less burst damage overall may hurt Berserker indirectly.

Spellbreaker

: Another powerhouse that has defined the Warrior meta since its release. The only notable nerf here is to Mage Bane Tether, and I think a lot of us saw this coming. The might gain has been reduced to 1 stack meaning, at most, it will gain you 8 stacks of might over the duration of the 8 second tether. However, consider how every class had its might generation significantly nerfed, 8 stacks of might on a 12 second cooldown may end up being pretty decent. Will this provide enough synergy with Might Makes Right to maintain the current Strength Spellbreaker meta? I don't know the answer to that question and it depends on how the powerlevel of the other classes ends up panning out.

So, in conclusion, yes Strength Spellbreaker will probably remain the meta. However, I would keep an eye on Defense as, post-patch, it may provide quite a bit of sustain that may see a return to the old Defense Spellbreaker or even Core warrior. As for more fringe builds like condi and power Berserker, I don't have enough experience with these builds to really say, but I see no reason why they would be any more viable than they are now. But again, so much is changing so who really knows.

I like this post, very insightful. I actually swapped over to Mending when it was buffed a while back after being a die hard Healing Signet Warrior for years. For my part, I like how well it counters poison and, as you said, the raw healing output is statistically better. However, that assumes you get full value from the heal (aka your health is below the amount healed by Mending) as soon as it comes off cooldown. Of course, this is rarely the case. I have found that I end up using Mending maybe once every 15 to 16 seconds on average. The advantage that Healing Signet has, of course, is that it is always healing you so in some ways it is much more efficient than a heal you have to cast and may or may not get full value out off. I think if the meta shifts away from so much condi burst damage and less condi removal is required, I could see swapping back to Healing Signet. But, as you say, Mending will be on a 16s traited cooldown post-patch which in some ways is hardly much of a nerf at all.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEh7lJwCZKsEWJOWX+vaA-z5gXKZGClmA9GB5XAqMA This is probably what I'll use as a starting point.

Sigil of Courage on GS to help supplement might generation, and might add a second in replace of cleansing depending on the state of condi post-patch.

Will try both Mending and Healing Signet to see what feels better. Less condi and less burst = Healing Signet. More condi and more burst = Mending.

Will start off with Stomp cause it seems like it'll be very strong, might swap to Featherfoot Grace if condi is a problem or MAYBE Shake It Off (although I think that skill will be too nerfed)

Pure Strike to supplement damage, boons won't last as long and Breaching Strike will now remove 3 boons so will be able to benefit from the 14% more often. However, Guard Counter I will also try as 3s of protection on a 10s CD is actually gonna be pretty damn good now. I foresee Loss Aversion staying the best choice for the same reasons although Slow Counter I would play with too.

Oh yeah, and Signet of Rage. Cause it seems like it'll be strong and I'm tired of Rampage.

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:Only talking sPvP here. I'm thinking something like: gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAc6FlJwSYYsRGKOWX+PdA-z5gfKNKEKVBUwIojJgKGA

Considering swapping out a few things based on how good they are or not:

•Mending - Will just swap back to healing signet if the increased CD on mending is that big of a deal. 230(cut by 1/3 with poison) a second just sounds pretty meh and I wanna see how much better or worse mending is after.•Bull's Charge - May swap out for stomp because of the shorter CD. Still a gap closer and setup for evis/arcing slice. OR Signet of Stamina since that's untouched.•Slow counter - I'm pretty split on this, I probably won't take it in all honesty. Will switch back to loss aversion if adrenaline is a problem. 2 Seconds of slow when Full Counter's daze duration is getting increased to 2 seconds Pepega•Demloisher's Ammy - Honestly considering Zerker ammy instead since damage is going down across the board and because of the reduction to 4-stat ammies.

When it comes to general playstyle differences...

•Generally I don't think mainhand Dagger is going to "cut" it anymore when it comes to damage hehe•Getting people low enough for arcing slice is going to be a challenge too with 100b seeming more like 100tickles on paper. I don't think warrior's are going to use this skill too much post-patch because it'l be a wasted setup. Maybe to cleave, but at that damage I think it's very possible for someone rezzing to heal for a lot more than the damage you'd be doing. It's a shame really because this is such a cool skill; always has been, but even now people usually just commit to like the first 2-3 swings then immediately bail into another skill.

This is basically what I was thinking on. Except axe mastery and slow counter cuz sig of rage takes care of adrenaline and loss aversion dps seems kinda low especially after patch.I don't see many people use axe mastery, if using ace is the lower cd and extra forocity/adrenaline not worth the trait? Also with stun breaks getting nerfed will no escape become more useful even if duration on imobilize are lower?

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:Only talking sPvP here. I'm thinking something like:

gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAc6FlJwSYYsRGKOWX+PdA-z5gfKNKEKVBUwIojJgKGA

Considering swapping out a few things based on how good they are or not:

•Mending - Will just swap back to healing signet if the increased CD on mending is that big of a deal. 230(cut by 1/3 with poison) a second just sounds pretty meh and I wanna see how much better or worse mending is after.•Bull's Charge - May swap out for stomp because of the shorter CD. Still a gap closer and setup for evis/arcing slice. OR Signet of Stamina since that's untouched.•Slow counter - I'm pretty split on this, I probably won't take it in all honesty. Will switch back to loss aversion if adrenaline is a problem. 2 Seconds of slow when Full Counter's daze duration is getting increased to 2 seconds Pepega•Demloisher's Ammy - Honestly considering Zerker ammy instead since damage is going down across the board and because of the reduction to 4-stat ammies.

When it comes to general playstyle differences...

•Generally I don't think mainhand Dagger is going to "cut" it anymore when it comes to damage hehe•Getting people low enough for arcing slice is going to be a challenge too with 100b seeming more like 100tickles on paper. I don't think warrior's are going to use this skill too much post-patch because it'l be a wasted setup. Maybe to cleave, but at that damage I think it's very possible for someone rezzing to heal for a lot more than the damage you'd be doing. It's a shame really because this is such a cool skill; always has been, but even now people usually just commit to like the first 2-3 swings then immediately bail into another skill.

The lower CD really only benefits OH Axe which most people do not run in competitive modes. Spellbreaker doesn't need that much adrenaline gain to do its job, and Loss Aversion generally takes care of it anyway. For Berzerker? Sure take it.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:Only talking sPvP here. I'm thinking something like:

gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAc6FlJwSYYsRGKOWX+PdA-z5gfKNKEKVBUwIojJgKGA

Considering swapping out a few things based on how good they are or not:

•Mending - Will just swap back to healing signet if the increased CD on mending is that big of a deal. 230(cut by 1/3 with poison) a second just sounds pretty meh and I wanna see how much better or worse mending is after.•Bull's Charge - May swap out for stomp because of the shorter CD. Still a gap closer and setup for evis/arcing slice. OR Signet of Stamina since that's untouched.•Slow counter - I'm pretty split on this, I probably won't take it in all honesty. Will switch back to loss aversion if adrenaline is a problem. 2 Seconds of slow when Full Counter's daze duration is getting increased to 2 seconds Pepega•Demloisher's Ammy - Honestly considering Zerker ammy instead since damage is going down across the board and because of the reduction to 4-stat ammies.

When it comes to general playstyle differences...

•Generally I don't think mainhand Dagger is going to "cut" it anymore when it comes to damage hehe•Getting people low enough for arcing slice is going to be a challenge too with 100b seeming more like 100tickles on paper. I don't think warrior's are going to use this skill too much post-patch because it'l be a wasted setup. Maybe to cleave, but at that damage I think it's very possible for someone rezzing to heal for a lot more than the damage you'd be doing. It's a shame really because this is such a cool skill; always has been, but even now people usually just commit to like the first 2-3 swings then immediately bail into another skill.

Well then guess back to good ol burst mastery lol

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:Only talking sPvP here. I'm thinking something like:

gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAc6FlJwSYYsRGKOWX+PdA-z5gfKNKEKVBUwIojJgKGA

Considering swapping out a few things based on how good they are or not:

•Mending - Will just swap back to healing signet if the increased CD on mending is that big of a deal. 230(cut by 1/3 with poison) a second just sounds pretty meh and I wanna see how much better or worse mending is after.•Bull's Charge - May swap out for stomp because of the shorter CD. Still a gap closer and setup for evis/arcing slice. OR Signet of Stamina since that's untouched.•Slow counter - I'm pretty split on this, I probably won't take it in all honesty. Will switch back to loss aversion if adrenaline is a problem. 2 Seconds of slow when Full Counter's daze duration is getting increased to 2 seconds Pepega•Demloisher's Ammy - Honestly considering Zerker ammy instead since damage is going down across the board and because of the reduction to 4-stat ammies.

When it comes to general playstyle differences...

•Generally I don't think mainhand Dagger is going to "cut" it anymore when it comes to damage hehe•Getting people low enough for arcing slice is going to be a challenge too with 100b seeming more like 100tickles on paper. I don't think warrior's are going to use this skill too much post-patch because it'l be a wasted setup. Maybe to cleave, but at that damage I think it's very possible for someone rezzing to heal for a lot more than the damage you'd be doing. It's a shame really because this is such a cool skill; always has been, but even now people usually just commit to like the first 2-3 swings then immediately bail into another skill.

/shrug I really wish they'd revert Heightened Focus back to giving crit chance based on adrenaline, but in the way the Berserker's Power functions now.