PvE Balance, does it really matter? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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PvE Balance, does it really matter?

There's a huge balance patch coming up, which I look very much forward to, mostly because the sheer size of it and if more smaller patches would follow up later in a more regular fashion, I'm even more excited. My opinion is that balance in this game is very important and regularly updating it would hold my interest in this game a lot longer.

But I notice the major upcoming balance update (including several that came before) is (are) very much PvP and WvW focused (>90%), and PvE seems to be a bit forgotten in this area. So I'm wondering, if this is a thing that we should see more often, is balance in PvE (far) less important? Should it be? Does it matter at all, really? Your opinions please.

PvE Balance, does it really matter? 182 votes

PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.
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pinerider.1950Arioch.6507Jonny.6013Jahroots.6791Loosmaster.8263Svarty.8019PookieDaWombat.6209Diabolo.4876Stand The Wall.6987XenesisII.1540Ayrilana.1396Mazreal Blackknight.1564Blockhead Magee.3092Dawdler.8521Ameepa.6793Obtena.7952ffletcher.3468LucianTheAngelic.7054Cronospere.8143AliamRationem.5172 68 votes
All game modes are as important if it comes to balancing. Please give PvE as much love as PvP and WvW in future balance updates.
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PvE has been the forgotten child for too long now if it comes to balance. Next (few) balance updates needs to be heavily focused on PvE balancing, please.
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Rauderi.8706Daddicus.6128DeadTreeJig.6714Hannelore.8153ParadoX.3124SinisterSlay.6973Alyster.9470agnlaa.7594Gren.2573XYLO.7031Josiah.2967Ordin.8341Xev.5760 13 votes
Other: (please explain in your post)
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Comments

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    PVP gets some very important updates overall, the reason it's so much bigger than the PVE-global side is because there is effort to change the entire game, namely by reducing damage across the board, reducing damage of hard CC skills, reducing damage of skills that do a lot of things other than damage, reducing condition application. There is also the part of the patch that removes the damage rolls from the game, so each attack will now deal the same -average- damage. Those are changes that will affect the pacing of PVP, longer fights, less reliance of big one-shot kills. A balance patch of that size and scope is hardly needed in PVE

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:
    PVP gets some very important updates overall, the reason it's so much bigger than the PVE-global side is because there is effort to change the entire game, namely by reducing damage across the board, reducing damage of hard CC skills, reducing damage of skills that do a lot of things other than damage, reducing condition application. There is also the part of the patch that removes the damage rolls from the game, so each attack will now deal the same -average- damage. Those are changes that will affect the pacing of PVP, longer fights, less reliance of big one-shot kills. A balance patch of that size and scope is hardly needed in PVE

    You might be right (I'm not teh judge of that), but that's not what I really wanted to poll with you guys. You see, my poll is more about balance in general. PvE might need something completely different, say (and I could be completely wrong here): far less utility and boon application across the board?!? Which would imply a major update for PvE as well, then! My question is about if updates like that for PvE are worth it? Should it matter? Don't forget that those would slurp up quite some resources from ANet which could've been used for different purposes: say (even) more PvP and WvW balance (it's not THAT black and white, but there's some truth in it, obviously).

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭
    All game modes are as important if it comes to balancing. Please give PvE as much love as PvP and WvW in future balance updates.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Extreme damage is just as poisonous in PvE as it is in PvP/WvW, anyone who thinks otherwise just enjoys power trips of going into old content and defeating all enemies with a single attack so that no one else can get any credit (or have any fun, for that matter).

    When you see people wearing white gear and unequipping their trinkets it tells you something, or should.

    people where doing that when exotic was the max tier way back when. This game has always been terrible about downleveling players, they should fix that instead of just doing mass damage nerfs.

    Im all for Anet doing a total re-balance of the game but thats exactly what it needs to be, an entire balance sweep not just nerfing damage across the board. All enemies, all npcs, all skills need to be looked and redone.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    I just hope they do not mess up PvE with the new PVP/WvW overhaul. I dont get the feeling it's needed to overhaul PvE at this point?

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    Spvp/WvW balance are way more important and should be the main focus, but Anet can't just abandon PvE balance and ignore it. The power creep in PvE needs to be addressed too. We need a big patch for pve like the one we are getting for Spvp/WvW. The amount of boon, condi clear, condi source spam is ridiculous. You missed one skill? No problem, most of them refresh in a couple of seconds. Scarcity promotes skillful play. Sure, for PvE the adjustment might need to be accompanied to a few nerfs to bosses to compensate a little bit, but it is doable. Harder to implement, but not impossible.

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other: (please explain in your post)

    I just do not see balance as an achievable target given the wide range of damage produced by players. Competitive mode players almost certainly will not be happy no matter what Anet does. PVE gameplay should just focus on keeping it fun.

  • MikeG.6389MikeG.6389 Member ✭✭✭

    I may have a very skewed point of view, but I think that if they do rebalance PVE on a large scale, especially with respect to lower level areas, they also need to address the issue of population distribution across the game. It's annoying when you don't get credit for an event in a starter zone when it's daily and everyone "one hits" the objective, but it would be all the more frustrating to run into a champion which, in the name of rebalance, feels like a level appropriate version of a PoF bounty in an otherwise empty low level core map, at the end of an event chain that nobody does any more...

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Extreme damage is just as poisonous in PvE as it is in PvP/WvW, anyone who thinks otherwise just enjoys power trips of going into old content and defeating all enemies with a single attack so that no one else can get any credit (or have any fun, for that matter).

    When you see people wearing white gear and unequipping their trinkets it tells you something, or should. There's seriously people in this game who think that Legendaries dying in 15 seconds in Orr and Silverwastes is okay.

    In my opinion, the game has never been more "press 1 to win" than it is now.

    Yeah, the game would seem pretty faceroll if all I did was farm gold in core maps, too...

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like to joke that the only balance PVE needs is equalized TTK. Not strictly true, but it sure feels like it.

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    “Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
    “The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    Given the options, I had to go with PvP/WvW balance are more important because they seem more difficult to balance and the players are more sensitive to disparities (and more likely to perceive them every time they lose a fight!).

    That isn't to say that PvE balance isn't important. But I think it is somewhat easier to manage.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭
    All game modes are as important if it comes to balancing. Please give PvE as much love as PvP and WvW in future balance updates.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    It seems like people who answer that "pve is the forgotten Child", have been playing a different game. Raids and the powercreep they bought with them killed a big part wvw and/or pvp. Many Oneshot builds, too much damage, toughness is an absolutely irrelevant stat (in competitive modes), booncreep, etc. You really forget all pve balance updates that heavily impacted wvw first and foremost?

    Good thing they finally after 7 years decided to split all the skills. Something that players had recommended near launch :/

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • thepenmonster.3621thepenmonster.3621 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2020
    Other: (please explain in your post)

    @MikeG.6389 said:
    It's annoying when you don't get credit for an event in a starter zone when it's daily and everyone "one hits" the objective...

    I see you had as much fun in Wayfarer today as I did trying to tag anything so I could get credit for an event.

    Anyway I said "other" simply because competitive should have its own set of traits unrelated to co-op.

    The Commander will end you.

  • Amaranthe.3578Amaranthe.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    As long as all classes have a role to play in a group then no, balance in PvE doesn't really matter

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2020
    All game modes are as important if it comes to balancing. Please give PvE as much love as PvP and WvW in future balance updates.

    The key thing to remember is PvE balance and PvP/WvW balance are two very different beasts. As long as they are treated accordingly, they are equally important.

    @Amaranthe.3578 said:
    As long as all classes have a role to play in a group then no, balance in PvE doesn't really matter

    All classes having a role to play is class balance in PvE.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    All game modes are as important if it comes to balancing. Please give PvE as much love as PvP and WvW in future balance updates.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    You really forget all pve balance updates that heavily impacted wvw first and foremost?

    Like nerf to permainvis thief build noone (well, noone but people using it) liked in WvW anyway? Yeah, i remember. I also remember a lot of pve nerfs that were a sideeffect of a balance change meant purely for PvP modes (and had no sense in PvE context).

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    Chose this option because if PvE gets a similar sort of balance patch to decrease bursts and power creeping, it would affect many modes where anet would have to redesign or put in further work to suit.

    Example; gorseval in spirit vale raid requires an x amount of dmg done by x % of hp or else your group wipes. This isnt the only boss but there are end game content that requires dps check and if anet was to balance pve dmg they would need to adjust those mechanics too and probably is too much work

    PvE is fine as is atm not perfect but the main focus is for pvp and wvw because they have not seen any changes for what... 2-3 years now? Same stale old meta classes definitely needed a change up.

    Excited AF for the balance patch !!!!

  • @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    Example; gorseval in spirit vale raid requires an x amount of dmg done by x % of hp or else your group wipes. This isnt the only boss but there are end game content that requires dps check and if anet was to balance pve dmg they would need to adjust those mechanics too and probably is too much work

    DPS checks in this game are a joke. Even the sefl enforced once like no updraft Gorseval and Xera mid dont require a lot of dps. They wouldnt have to adjust anything.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    Example; gorseval in spirit vale raid requires an x amount of dmg done by x % of hp or else your group wipes.

    If only there was a spirit wall you could destroy then glide off the platform to avoid Gorseval's wipe attack. Oh wait, there is. Bad example

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭
    Other: (please explain in your post)

    Yes, but just enough to shake the META and raise the skill cap a bit.
    It's also nice to have some outliers that would over-perform provided you have reached that build's skill ceiling. For the elitists, of course.
    For the rest of us filthy, mediocre-skilled peasants, we can do away with whatever gets the job done in a reasonable amount of time - provided we put in the effort.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    Example; gorseval in spirit vale raid requires an x amount of dmg done by x % of hp or else your group wipes.

    If only there was a spirit wall you could destroy then glide off the platform to avoid Gorseval's wipe attack. Oh wait, there is. Bad example

    Static groups yes that's easy enough
    When you run trainings or semi exp I foresee it as a headache more than it is already.
    Gorseval is only one example I could think of at the time.

  • PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    Example; gorseval in spirit vale raid requires an x amount of dmg done by x % of hp or else your group wipes. This isnt the only boss but there are end game content that requires dps check and if anet was to balance pve dmg they would need to adjust those mechanics too and probably is too much work

    DPS checks in this game are a joke. Even the sefl enforced once like no updraft Gorseval and Xera mid dont require a lot of dps. They wouldnt have to adjust anything.

    Tell that to pugs doing less than 5k dps as a dps :cry:

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other: (please explain in your post)

    WvW and PvE balance should be the same. SPvP should have there own balancing team, how ever the classes shouldn't be so far apart they you can't play them in between game modes. WvW should have had a bit more PvE elements maybe a small living world addition as a side note.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

  • Other: (please explain in your post)

    PvE balance is important to the game, but in a completely different way than PvP/WvW balance.

    In PvP/WvW- balance is focused on giving all classes a relatively level competitive playing field. No class should be stronger or weaker than any other when played well. These game modes build balance around player skill rather than class strength. No class should be able to do really in competitive modes well just by mashing buttons.
    In PvE, balance is focused on making classes strong enough to overcome challenges without making them too strong to be challenged. There is much more room for differing strength between classes without any class being too strong or too weak. It's fine if some classes can reach their power peak by players just mashing buttons, while need players who can bring out the best in their class through skillful play.

    In PvP/WvW, balance is achieved mainly through changing the classes. In PvE, it can be changed be changing classes or by changing the enemies. In fact, it's often better to tweak the difficulty in PvE than to change the classes.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    @CaelestiaEmpyrea.2617 said:
    In PvP/WvW, balance is achieved mainly through changing the classes. In PvE, it can be changed be changing classes or by changing the enemies. In fact, it's often better to tweak the difficulty in PvE than to change the classes.

    But since Anet seem to refuse to tweak the difficulty in PvE and would rather spend hundreds upon hundreds of developers hours thinking out how to skillsplit something, it is rather stupid.

    How it looks today:
    sPvP - skill X does 1000 dps due to sPvP splits and sPvP stats.
    WvW - skill X does 2000 dps due to WvW splits and PvE stats.
    PvE - skill X does 3000 dps due to PvE splits and PvE stats. Killing mob Y with 30k hp would take 10s.

    How it could look:
    sPvP - skill X does 1000 dps due to normalized stats.
    WvW - skill X does 1000 dps due to normalized stats.
    PvE - skill X does 1000 dps due normalized stats. Killing mob Y with 10k hp would take 10s.

    But PvEers would have a complete hissy fit because their numbers after the patch would be lower than their numbers before the patch and scream bloody hell on the forums. And those are the ones Anet cater to. Always has been, always will. But I digress.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    While I'm a main PvE player and don't bother much with PvP/WvW, I think balance in a player vs player environment is far more important than PvE balance will ever be. This is not to sell short the importance of PvE being balanced, but in PvE you will not face other players, which can potentially abuse a broken balance system, whereas PvE, you might have broken enemies, but you can put effort into understandig them, and have far more room to strategize around that enemy.

    My issue with PvE balance is not damage numbers from players, but rather the enemies not being properly scaled, or engaging enough, to pose any challenge or danger to a player. Bjora marches suffers a lot from this, as all the mobs are extremely outdated and pose little to no threat unless they are 10 at the same time spamming homing projectiles at you <- not fun, not engaging, where are our expansion level content enemies?

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    The key difference between pve and other modes is thatthe inbalance only effects 1 combate, I. E player gainst an npc. An overturned class can ruin gameplay for every player that class comes into contact with in pvp.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Pirogen.9561Pirogen.9561 Member ✭✭✭
    Other: (please explain in your post)

    Balance is important for both modes, PvP and PvE. But not in the same way.

    PvP: if lets say Thief always wins independent of who plays it, there is something wrong.

    PvE: if everyone plays only Thief, then there is something wrong.

    You'd expect there is no monopoly of a single class. You can expect that some classes are more popular then others, dunno because they are more shiny. But there should be no "dead class".

    And another thing, atleast for PvE, its not about DPS. Its OK if for example Thief does more damage then Warrior. But in this case, youd expect that Thief is squishy glass cannon and Warrior can take a lot of beating.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other: (please explain in your post)

    I think PvE needs more than numbers balancing. Encounters themselves should be designed around current mechanics and skills, not by canceling all cc and shoehorning a new special key skill every encounter.

    PvE probably should use PvP/WvW numbers, but with an emphasis on encounter design.

  • PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    PvE doesnt require balance patches at all....
    Atleast not in the way PvP and WvW needs them.
    PvE doesnt require an even playing field. The foes in PvE are not programmed to complain or have enough AI to be capable of doing so.
    So skill balancing in PvE should focus on two things.
    1: ensuring that there is no all powerfull class that is the number one pick for content. Each class should have its advantages and disadvantages I think there is no problem that some classes are more efficient, specially for the hardcore gamer, when there are also classes more forgiving for the more average gamer. This will result in the more average player to feel left out of hardcore content, but they would feel left out there anyways as they are average players . I an ideal world, this should be achieved by traits and elite specialisations, but it is an illussion that this is perfectly possible, so a difference should be there and is much more acceptable.
    2: PvE balancing should focus on creating a pleasurable experience for each gamer. Both hardcore or more average. This can be done by skill balancing, but also in changing the encounters. The balance is therefor much wider as Arenanet can manipulate the environment much more then the builds picked by your PvP opponent.

  • Lexi.1398Lexi.1398 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    Now, pvp/wvw in EVERY game eternal are in a constant state of imbalance. You just can't leave very OP builds as they are cus open world exists. The balance in PvP/WvW is a core part of the game mode, since it's based on competition, you need things to be as fair as you can to ensure average joe and his trailblazer mirage can't kill someone by facerolling their keyboard no matter what someone tries to do to counter it just because it's that OP.

    Balance IS important in PvE, there are still lots of traits that are solely useful for raiding but aren't even the best trait to take and those traits therefore become useless, and ask ANY raider who isn't a guardian main about firebrand and you'll get an earful about how brokenly OP it is. Lets not forget how basically every PvE chronomancer change has been based around it's raid viability, and while i do like the "new" shatters much more than core mesmer shatters, balance changes based around making chrono less raid viable have hurt chrono so much that it's basically useless now- yeah pchrono stacking is meta in a few places, but its easier and more effective to stack guardians more often than not. Ofc, in general, if firebrand was nerfed chrono would be more useful. Anyway............... it's nowhere near as integral to enjoying PvE as balance is for competitive.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    All game modes are as important if it comes to balancing. Please give PvE as much love as PvP and WvW in future balance updates.

    All modes are important.

    When I started GW2 I was pleasantly surprised to see ANET had done something that Blizzard refused to do, which was split abilities between game modes. So in WoW (At least in my day) you regularly saw your raiding toon get hit with a nerf hammer because of QQ from the battlegrounds or Arena.

    Since GW2 does split abilities between PvE, WvW and PvP, there is no excuse not tweak all 3 game modes in an effort towards balance. Sadly sometimes this realizes itself as mechanical changes (eg change to Scourge shades) but I can see this is preferable to what I've seen in other MMOs like WoW. I kid you not, during one two year expansion I saw my "main" characters spec reworked 3 separate times, and they played very differently (with varied results) from one tier of raiding to the next. That was one of the reasons I abandoned that game and the company behind it.

  • Other: (please explain in your post)

    Other. PvP and WvW have been ignored heavily in favor of PvE until recently. Not saying some PvE things don't need balancing. They do. Particularly on with support and condi vs power for DPS for things like Fractals and Raids. Balance does not matter for OW.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    Re opening post, the real issue is patch cadence, and anet have acknowledged this as an area of improvement. If you leave patches for month on end then have a big patch that targets either pvp or pve then people fixate on that. If however you have patches every couple weeks then it becomes a non issue, because patch prioritisation can be based on near live game state rather than some stale view from months ago that's been thrown in a big high risk bucket.

    Bear in mind Anets recent efforts spent on splitting pve and pvp is also for pve ultimately.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭✭
    All game modes are as important if it comes to balancing. Please give PvE as much love as PvP and WvW in future balance updates.

    PvP and WvW need to be balanced in order to not stifle competition and make all classes viable.

    PVE balance is not about the open world -- every class has powerful builds for soloing, story missions, and open world events like the world boss train. PVE needs to be balanced around the structured group content -- dungeons, fractals, strikes, raids. All classes should be useful in group content in more than one build -- "Sorry, no necros or rangers unless you're a healer" -- and NO class should be absolutely mandatory -- "Can't go without a Chrono." The meta concept will always exist among the toxic 1%, but PVE balance needs to address keeping the elitism and exclusion in group content to a minimum.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    Anyone that thinks PVE balance is important in THIS game has no understanding of how the fundamental decision to discard holy trinity impacts the game.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    PvE re-balancing is far less important. Barring extreme outliers such as running 8 or 10 of a class, there really isn't a need to push constant balance updates just for PvE because the encounters and content do not change. Actually it is likely to break things if a certain thing is designed with a damage/sustain in mind and all of sudden skills get massive powercreep and/or tuning down.
    When chrono was popular it was arguably overpowered (I used to play chrono and it still has 1/3 of my total hours , my mesmer is from GW2 pre-launch day), right now firebrand guardian (mine is from launch day) is the predominant class , and to a lesser extent alacrity renegades are considered in vogue along with all sorts of warriors running banners.

    Currently, if Zealous Blade is bugfixed (the 10% damage increase has persisted since July 2019) and Feel my Wrath is cut short (see the "Global" Balance update), then power Dragonhunter will no longer be as desirable as a damage class when there is a single target (due to Big Game Hunter).

    If you break it down by class:
    Warrior - has been popular since the start , also banners provide a massive squad/party boost : I'd say it has been well balanced because banners don't stack
    Guardian - popular but not meta defining until Firebrand quickness
    Revenant - was not popular until alacrity from chrono mesmer was dropped severely to what it is now ; herald is popular in WvW due to swiftness/might/fury uptime on 10 people
    Engineer - holosmith is getting the explosives improvement from the balance patch that should push it to the top , the condition damage bonus to others (Pinpoint distribution) is typically not run ; condi variants are repetitive strain inducing with grenades
    Ranger - druid was extremely popular when chronomancer was in vogue, but the nerf to glyph of empowerment as well as spirit changes makes it much less appealing, now soulbeast with frost spirits/stances/ frost trap (PVE only change doubled damage , it is almost a joke otherwise) is competitive but not meta defining even if spotter is nice to have
    Thief - staff daredevil does respectable damage even in competitive modes , people run rifle deadeyes in PvE and WvW (but I just dislike that playstyle and it has no cleave)
    Mesmer - chronomancer was meta defining but post nerfs it is used mainly as DPS , mirage is well regarded when condi is required despite not having much burst other than pistol offhand and staff ambush
    Elementalist- not relevant until sword was improved , power overwhelming was added to fire attunement, and ferocity bonuses on air attunement . Master's Fortitude isn't that much of a damage loss as you only lose 10% crit chance vs weakened enemies. Condition variants still have the minor drawback of packing toughness if you run the earth traitline, however.
    Necromancers - generally not well regarded in PVE but in cases where there are many boons and ranged condi AOE is preferred they have shined (see epidemic, condi scourge with barriers, scourge heal) ; power reaper has self-quickness from Reaper's Onslaught

    The way that necromancers could be made more sought after is by introducing enemies with more offensive boons instead of purely defensive ones such as aegis, protection,regeneration. Might flips into weakness which makes healing less needed ; fury into blindness, quickness flips to slow, swiftness into cripple , vigor into bleeding. If it's a purely defensive boon you can just strip it (which is why spellbreaker is a popular choice for fractals): regen goes to poison, protection to vulnerability, aegis turns into burning, etc.

    Per GW2efficiency the least played classes are Revenant at <4% and Engineer <6% of playerhours. So if any balance decisions are made, the most played classes need to be considered first (guardian at just over 15% and warrior at ~14% followed by ranger at ~13.5% in terms of hours) because you ideally want the most played classes to be usable to reduce player wait times for grouping. That's why a firebrand guardian + renegade meta is actually healthier than a dual chronomancer meta , as the skill needed to pull off chronomancer has generally been higher (i.e. less capable of doing it). Would actually be better if additional alacrity was restored to chronomancer shield however (as shared quickness on shatter doesn't help it fulfill the renegade spot) as that's essentially the only use for it and the well of recall is a nightmare to get people to stand in with unorganized groups.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020
    PvE balance is (far) less important than PvP and WvW: please keep on focusing (more) on PvP and WvW in the future, if it comes to balance updates.

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    PvP and WvW need to be balanced in order to not stifle competition and make all classes viable.

    PVE balance is not about the open world -- every class has powerful builds for soloing, story missions, and open world events like the world boss train. PVE needs to be balanced around the structured group content -- dungeons, fractals, strikes, raids. All classes should be useful in group content in more than one build -- "Sorry, no necros or rangers unless you're a healer" -- and NO class should be absolutely mandatory -- "Can't go without a Chrono." The meta concept will always exist among the toxic 1%, but PVE balance needs to address keeping the elitism and exclusion in group content to a minimum.

    Pve does need some balance in gw2 But not to prevent prevent meta swap bullying, it is needed to keep npc enemy interesting to fight. The perceived nerd to swap profession/Meta tends to come from players who spend their time looking at meta sites and comparing needlessly with others on meters.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other: (please explain in your post)

    basicly first big patch for wvw from a loooong time and u say pve is forgotten. nah
    pve dont need so many balance patches, as meta is kinda good (outside of 1 blue class). ofc some big balance changes are good once in a time, but pve get new content in terms of fractals(hmm), raids(hmmm) and strike missions. big balance changes in pvp are way more meaningfull to the gameplay than in pve (where even if meta changes u still play the same stuff).
    its good as its happening, lets just hope they will keep their promises

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • kratan.4619kratan.4619 Member ✭✭✭
    Other: (please explain in your post)

    PvE balance is irrelevant and not needed here, go ahead and make all the balance changes needed for PvP or WvW. I don't need to be changing my gear/build/traits/etc for PvE every time a new balance change is released.

  • Neural.1824Neural.1824 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other: (please explain in your post)

    Balance is important in all 3 modes, but too convoluted due to things being tied together. The modes should never have shared balance properties.

    Soul-binding needs to be allowed to die gracefully. It has expired. It is long past it's time to become a footnote in the history of gaming.

  • Other: (please explain in your post)

    Leave pve alone. When I am roaming maps, I want to have fun, not be killed every 10 seconds by mobs or feel the need to run past everything because it takes forever to chunk through everything because I now do the damage of a wet noodle. Or being forced to use a weapon -- like a stupid sword on my guard because some arrogant dev thinks my scepter shouldn't be a top option -- that I hate.

    Plus fractals, dungeons, and bosses would become a nightmare if pve is nerfed as hard as other game modes are getting. I am so sick of the "it's too easy" mongers ruining stuff. They don't play more. They "conquer" the content and move on, never coming back, leaving the rest of us with content we can't solo and no one to help us. Now they want to take away the tools we have to even try.

    I don't want to waste time on 5 million builds and armor and what not just do I can play a pve map. Leave that to pvp and wvw where that experimenting is expected. I certainly don't need stuff that will keep me on maps longer or pve content to be slow and methodical. If I wanted that I would replay dark souls-like games.

    You find pve content easy? Good for you. Not all if us are that talented, or possesses with the ability to get that perfect build. And some of you think only in terms of your own experience. Like the fecent world boss. Some are like "it is so easy. Make it harder," and they did. Still the same whine for harder. But all I have seen is the event fail more frequently. I don't want to waste effort on failure. See enough waste on failure in bad pvp match ups. Get enough abuse hurled at me there, I don't need people calling me worthless trash in pve maps because they decide I am the reason we lost. I get enough of that in pvp.

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020
    PvE has been the forgotten child for too long now if it comes to balance. Next (few) balance updates needs to be heavily focused on PvE balancing, please.

    I hate the fact that I know I'm holding the group back in raids and fractals playing Necro. I main a Necro. I am a better Necro player. Yet the DPS and buffs to others from the Guardian or Warrior is far superior. It's obvious that it matters when looking at meters. It's not close.

    I have other people heckling me to play other classes... Apparently number 3 on the meters is not good enough....when I can be number one on the meters and buff others. It just sucks.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020
    Other: (please explain in your post)

    PvE balance matters in that sense that every class should have a role in it. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter.

    However, there is no point in impacting pve with unrelated changes in other game modes. I'm glad it took like 7 years to figure that out but hey.

    Also this is a pve focused game. Any idea that pve has been neglected relative to pvp and especially wvw is a terrible joke.

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭✭
    All game modes are as important if it comes to balancing. Please give PvE as much love as PvP and WvW in future balance updates.

    PvE is largely in a pretty decent spot for the moment

    Unless Anet suddenly refocuses like a laser beam on Raids and T4 fractals, you're not likely to ever be in a bad spot for not being in the top 5 dps builds

    We still have strikes for the time being but they're easy enough that you should be able to find people who will let you play on any class you want assuming you at least put your best effort in