Balance Update Update - WvW — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Balance Update Update - WvW

Cal Cohen.2358Cal Cohen.2358 ArenaNet ArenaNet 
edited February 12, 2020 in WvW

Hi Everyone,

We wanted to swing by with an update on the balance patch and respond to some of the main feedback points that we’ve seen. At this point we’re mostly locked down for the release, but we’re still gathering feedback and continuing some investigation for future work.

For reference, the initial post can be found here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96750/balance-patch-preview-wvw

Stability
The biggest point of feedback that we’ve seen on the WvW side of things is the concern about longer cooldowns on stability skills and the effect it will have on large scale engagements. Based on that feedback, we won’t be applying most of these changes in WvW for the initial update. Stability is still something that we want to keep an eye on, but we want to see how everything adjusts before making larger changes to these skills.

Notably this includes

  • Stand Your Ground
  • Mantra of Liberation, Portent of Freedom, and Unhindered Delivery
  • Mantra of Concentration and Power Break
  • Defense Field
  • Dolyak Stance
  • Balanced Stance
  • Dolyak Signet

Note that Stand Your Ground will still be 5 targets. Bringing 10-target skills back down to 5 is something we want to do across the game outside of PvE, though for this update we weren’t able to address target cap increases granted by traits. The change that was made to Sand Savant was an exceptional case and not a true split, but we felt it was a necessary change to address the impact that Scourge was having on WvW. Our plan moving forward is that target cap increases granted by traits will be rolled in baseline for PvE, which will then allow us to split the number of targets on an individual skill-level instead of removing trait functionality.

General balance concerns
We’ve read all the feedback and seen the concerns about future metas and the viability of certain professions and specializations after the update. After the patch goes out, we’ll be continuing to iterate as we gather more data and feedback based on actual gameplay. We’re prepared to act quickly in response to anything egregious that pops up, whether it’s an individual build greatly overperforming or a heavy skew of the meta in any particular fashion (unkillable tanks, dominant condition builds pushing out any power builds, etc). Once any major wrinkles are ironed out, we’ll settle back into the faster cadence that we mentioned previously as we work toward improving balance across the board.

Additional changes (minus the previously mentioned stability skills)

  • Concealing Restoration: Reduced stealth duration from 2 seconds to 1 second.
  • Rending Shade: Reduced number of boons stolen from 2 to 1.
  • Assassin's Signet: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds.
  • Leeching Venoms: Reduced maximum stacks of spider venom provided by this trait from 6 to 2.
  • Malicious Backstab: Reduced power coefficients from 1.2/2.4 to 0.9/1.8
  • Smokescreen: Increased cooldown from 35 seconds to 45 seconds
  • Lightning Rod: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 1.2

We’ve also seen the feedback around Dragon Banner and we’re looking into some slight tweaks on the damage there. We’ll be keeping a close eye on siege damage and banner effectiveness relative to player skills and will make further adjustments as necessary.

There’s still a lot of work to do, but this update should give us a good starting point to build from and we’re excited to see where things go.
-The Systems Team

aka cmc
Game Designer on PvP/WvW

Tagged:
<13

Comments

  • @Anput.4620 said:
    Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

    Because the devs can't tell the difference and blanket nerf wvw and pvp alike? Why not copy paste their 'thank you for your feedback' message as well? shrug

  • TidalTrident.4013TidalTrident.4013 Member ✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    Anet can you also nerf tactic banners (especialy dragon banner!) and maybe siege as well for the patch please. Also nerf burn guards too.
    I'm looking forward to the patch! 😁

  • @TidalTrident.4013 said:
    Anet can you also nerf tactic banners (especialy dragon banner!) and maybe siege as well for the patch please. Also nerf burn guards too.
    I'm looking forward to the patch! 😁

    Also please nerf theeeeeef! Thank you! :#

  • Winds of Disenchantment still needs a look at, it's a welcome change that it's only 5 targets now, but it's one of the most obnoxious skill in the game with the trait enchantment collapse especially when a group has a lot of spellbreakers. A tweak to it's duration or boon removal interval would be good, with enchantment collapse trait getting a higher than 1s icd.

    It's close to impossible to do anything when the enemies just rush you with more bubbles when they are bigger, and then when the duration goes down, they come with another set of bubbles and keep repeating it (effectively chaining bubbles) until you are dead and there's not much to do about it at that point. It hurts the smaller groups.

  • MELORD.5013MELORD.5013 Member ✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    nerf Siege/Condi Rev/Banners all should be good 👌

    Clouding is More funn than zerging

  • Fashion Mage.3712Fashion Mage.3712 Member ✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    You should consider how you nerf the base values of supportive healing skills in comparison to the much harsher nerfs you've applied to the healing power ratios of those skills (this goes for PvP too). There is literally no reason to use healing power if most of the value of the heals are just given for free; fully investing in healing power with the current changes merely negates an auto-attack's worth of damage (at best) per heal.

  • Thanks for not touching Condi rev!

    Ventari's solace - Begone peasant projectiles!

  • Balthzar.3807Balthzar.3807 Member ✭✭✭

    thanks for the update Cal

    it looks good and thanks for taking some of the community concerns. Really looking forward to this going live.

  • @Fashion Mage.3712 said:
    You should consider how you nerf the base values of supportive healing skills in comparison to the much harsher nerfs you've applied to the healing power ratios of those skills (this goes for PvP too). There is literally no reason to use healing power if most of the value of the heals are just given for free; fully investing in healing power with the current changes merely negates an auto-attack's worth of damage (at best) per heal.

    It's probably their way of trying to stop people from going minstrels or full healer I'm guessing. Well we'll have to see after patch if it is viable to drop minstrels or not. It could be the return of cele.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

    _

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

    Because the devs can't tell the difference and blanket nerf wvw and pvp alike? Why not copy paste their 'thank you for your feedback' message as well? shrug

    Because the change was intended to be pushed out with the initial update, but they have since walked back on that based on feedback so that they can instead monitor how it plays out after the update without changing the skills.

  • Cambeleg.7632Cambeleg.7632 Member ✭✭✭

    @TidalTrident.4013 said:

    @Fashion Mage.3712 said:
    You should consider how you nerf the base values of supportive healing skills in comparison to the much harsher nerfs you've applied to the healing power ratios of those skills (this goes for PvP too). There is literally no reason to use healing power if most of the value of the heals are just given for free; fully investing in healing power with the current changes merely negates an auto-attack's worth of damage (at best) per heal.

    It's probably their way of trying to stop people from going minstrels or full healer I'm guessing. Well we'll have to see after patch if it is viable to drop minstrels or not. It could be the return of cele.

    This would be absurd. They had in mind to remove Celestial for long time ago, never did it... then, they wanted to give the healer role fully (reason why Minstrel exists), and now they gonna make it useless. Seriously, someone in the staff knows what is doing?

  • Karnasis.6892Karnasis.6892 Member ✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    You also seem to be nerfing Deadeye when the concern is actual builds to be too good for Thief, like condi DD or sword DD, not cheese builds which will now be gutted to unviability when the backstab build folded to any tanky target. My concern being that balancing is done from the bottom up instead of from the top down.

    I mean, you said it right there "cheese builds". Anything that is truly awful to fight because it can't be beaten by player skill on any class. My personal thoughts would be like Perma stealth Deadeye. Yes it can be beaten, but you have to somehow be a god tier player (or just very lucky) to catch them imo. I'm an average player and I can't beat it. However I am also playing the wrong class to be able to compete with them (mesmer). My understanding is necros have a really good chance to take em out, but even then it's not a guarantee.

    permastealth is bleh imo just in general, no matter the class.

  • @Frax.4562 said:
    Winds of Disenchantment still needs a look at, it's a welcome change that it's only 5 targets now, but it's one of the most obnoxious skill in the game with the trait enchantment collapse especially when a group has a lot of spellbreakers. A tweak to it's duration or boon removal interval would be good, with enchantment collapse trait getting a higher than 1s icd.

    It's close to impossible to do anything when the enemies just rush you with more bubbles when they are bigger, and then when the duration goes down, they come with another set of bubbles and keep repeating it (effectively chaining bubbles) until you are dead and there's not much to do about it at that point. It hurts the smaller groups.

    I fully agree here. The problem i have with this skill is actually not the boon remove itsself its more the fact that you are not able to apply boons back. Just remove the fact that you are not able to reapply boons in de dome and i think balancing is fine! Or go back to a static dome as it was before so when you dodged out you're actually out.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    Do you guys (ANet) find any issue with the performance of Engi's Purity of Purpose?

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally I think siege should be fine, health pools and armor values haven't changed and you can already just pretty much stand in siege fire now.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Arctisavange.7261Arctisavange.7261 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    Extra feedback regarding to the post on stability.

    Its not only that we are worried about cooldowns on stability skills, its also the stability boon duration.

    Examples of skills are :

    Portent of Freedom (from Mantra of Liberation): Reduced stability duration from 5 seconds to 1 second.

    Unflinching Charge: Reduced stability duration from 2 seconds to 1 second.

    Even with full concentration focus in build, that duration on stability is INSANELY low. Stability is there to avoid being stopped by all the crowd control skills in the game which usually is followed by massive damage.
    I dont know about you guys but im definetly no super human who has a reaction time of a god to save my entire party from getting stuck and dieing on crowd control skills with a 1-2 second stability uptime. Plus figuring out when and if any of those disabling skills will land on you is like playing roulette.

    Please do consider that many who play WvW are there for the blob vs blob aspect. While the stability nerf is not bad for roaming, it will be disaster in anything that has big scale combat. I remember before HoT patch on the first stability nerf and how many players and friends left cause they were forced to pirate ship, couldnt make any melee contact and the game just became horrible to enjoy.

    While there should be a balance between ranged and melee gameplay in big mass scale fights, it should be also more rewarding to make melee contact rather then playing only ranged for obvious reasons.
    While most skills do get bigger cooldowns to stop more skill spamming, we are still heading towards pirate ship gameplay being the most rewarding meta cause of stability nerf.

    As a finishing note keep in mind that even if the meta does go more melee mode from any changes you apply - the statistics, experience, players participating have always stayed positive, high and consistant compared to what disasters a pirateship meta has shown.
    People love melee, they always have loved melee combat in big fights as it brings more life into mass scale PvP, feels more rewarding, more action rich. Nobody likes shooting and evading each other from 1200 ranged distance while not being able to make proper melee contact.

  • SnowHawk.3615SnowHawk.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    could you like nerf all damage types? it would really improve on the player base depending on dmg to do dmg. thanks! also please take away steal/swipe completely from thieves, the don't need it.

  • Arctisavange.7261Arctisavange.7261 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    Personally I think siege should be fine, health pools and armor values haven't changed and you can already just pretty much stand in siege fire now.

    You really cant unless youre spamming heavy heals, have a 50 man squad mitigating damage and have constant pressure on walls to keep enemies from freecasting on you. Extra points if you have eles who can kill siege, eventhough most deployed siege is unkillable if placed correctly.

    Siege is suppose to be there to delay enemies knocking on your keep til your people show up, not push them away. If you have 4 acs on 1 gate, 10 players freecasting constantly then you do take a ton of damage. I have had to pull off countless times from inner garrison due to insane siege damage and simply lacking the capabilities to sustain or kill siege. Extra horror points if you also have a truck load of enemies camping on walls.

    Given also that most keeps have presence of the keep buff for big massive stat buff, spawn nearby where you can be in your garrison in 20-30 seconds cause of mounts, siege even now does provide quite a strong extra presence. So yes it needs a nerf.

  • Thank you very much that you are reconsidering the changes towards the stab mantra and stand your ground, however please dont forget about the boon duration - 1 second is just waaaay too less for the amount of immob/cc there is in the game currently.

    More Feedback:

    Winds of disenchantment: The problem of the skill is not the amount of boons it strip and that it stops boon uptime or the amount of targets it can hit. The only, big issue with this elite is that you can move with it. I really would like to see the stationary version back into the game. This would be enough balance, as you can properly kite it, rather than being chased by 2-5 at once and cant get out of it, literally obliberating whole squads.
    Also you said you that you want make CDs matter - this would do the trick with this elite.
    Current state, and it wont change after the patch, warriors just have to shut down their brain, activate "Defiance Stance" and bubble run onto the enemy and there till its over.
    By changing it back to stationary, you would really have to think about the placement again, reading enemy movement and so on - making it really matter again.

    Merciful Intervention: In my opinion, giving wvw the pvp version of this skill is a mistake. Its pretty much the only reliable skill to properly save one or two players in large scale fights.

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    What about Guild Objective Aura and Presence of the Keep? Those two combined give +200 Power, Precision, Toughness & Vitality virtually free to anyone within the territory it is active.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • Blue.1207Blue.1207 Member ✭✭✭

    So darn confused as to why this wasn't happening years ago when people actually played the game. Too little too late.

  • Anet can u nerf everything back to the start when the game actually was balanced and players actually played. mm k ty :3

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    @MELORD.5013 said:
    nerf Siege/Condi Rev/Banners all should be good 👌

    This is the WvW post, condi rev isn't a thing (yet?). Conditions on revenant mace+axe are toned down anyway.
    "Searing Fissure: Adjusted initial burning from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 10 seconds. Increased additional burning duration from 1 second to 4 seconds"
    "Temporal Rift: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.01. Adjusted torment from 2 stacks for 12 seconds to 1 stack for 1 second"
    "Scorchrazor: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01. Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 1 second"

    @XiTe.1079 said:
    Thank you very much that you are reconsidering the changes towards the stab mantra and stand your ground, however please dont forget about the boon duration - 1 second is just waaaay too less for the amount of immob/cc there is in the game currently.

    More Feedback:

    Winds of disenchantment: The problem of the skill is not the amount of boons it strip and that it stops boon uptime or the amount of targets it can hit. The only, big issue with this elite is that you can move with it. I really would like to see the stationary version back into the game. This would be enough balance, as you can properly kite it, rather than being chased by 2-5 at once and cant get out of it, literally obliberating whole squads.
    Also you said you that you want make CDs matter - this would do the trick with this elite.
    Current state, and it wont change after the patch, warriors just have to shut down their brain, activate "Defiance Stance" and bubble run onto the enemy and there till its over.
    By changing it back to stationary, you would really have to think about the placement again, reading enemy movement and so on - making it really matter again.

    Merciful Intervention: In my opinion, giving wvw the pvp version of this skill is a mistake. Its pretty much the only reliable skill to properly save one or two players in large scale fights.

    The way to counter bubbles is generally CC , as interrupts stop the bubble. That's why scrapper hammers (Thunderclap specifically) are very useful, provided the spellbreaker doesn't have massive amounts of stability : all leap combos in that lightning field are dazes. In addition, unblockable reaper's mark from necromancers/scourges/reapers can fear the spellbreakers if there is no stability ; likewise with heralds' Surge of the Mists knockback , Drop the Hammer knockdowns, and other warriors' Earthshaker / Backbreaker.

    People were clamoring for no downstate, making MI much weaker is sort of a way to achieve that.

  • MELORD.5013MELORD.5013 Member ✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    @MELORD.5013 said:
    nerf Siege/Condi Rev/Banners all should be good 👌

    This is the WvW post, condi rev isn't a thing (yet?). Conditions on revenant mace+axe are toned down anyway.
    "Searing Fissure: Adjusted initial burning from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 10 seconds. Increased additional burning duration from 1 second to 4 seconds"
    "Temporal Rift: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.01. Adjusted torment from 2 stacks for 12 seconds to 1 stack for 1 second"
    "Scorchrazor: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01. Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 1 second"

    it is a thing at least in wvw roaming the build was made by souls a TP baron he streams it on twitch
    he said that the build will be the best roaming build after balance patch since they didn't look at it that much , who knows ?

    Clouding is More funn than zerging

  • Kirnale.5914Kirnale.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    Anet don't forget burnguard, stealth and the removal of thief ports

  • Gwaihir.1745Gwaihir.1745 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kirnale.5914 said:
    Anet don't forget burnguard, stealth and the removal of thief ports

    Dont forget to nerf everything op doesnt play!

    Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds.

    Quality balance changes^TM

  • WvW is a 40, 50, 60 player versus player game mode, why reduce target caps... this makes little sense!

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    WvW side of things is the concern about longer cooldowns on stability skills and the effect it will have on large scale engagements. Based on that feedback, we won’t be applying most of these changes in WvW for the initial update.

    Does this also include Trail of Anguish from Scourge as it is a Stability skill?

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    Condi rev is fine, especially after the nerfs it's getting. WvW shouldn't balanced around roaming when it's 1-2 useful Condis get deleted in anything larger than 1v1.

  • Hadi.6025Hadi.6025 Member ✭✭✭

    How to kill your game LMAO

  • Last time i went WvW on Westside Ridge Last Map IP : 0.0.0.0 There was no one … Guess what i did ? I went to kill mobs and collect iron ores

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    @SnowHawk.3615 said:
    could you like nerf all damage types? it would really improve on the player base depending on dmg to do dmg. thanks! also please take away steal/swipe completely from thieves, the don't need it.

    Cal pay attention to this, u may as well just throw the game in the trash if ur going to let this community steer the balance of the game. Are you and the team not up to the task? If not please resign now and let a real team do the balancing. I had hope for this team but their literal amateur's that are relying on the community to make the decisions for them lol and one look at 90% of the community posts regarding balance any one SHOULD be able to realize which their the last people to let steer the game. Good luck cal, ur gonna need it for the short time left gw2 is gonna be around with ur team at the helm.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    @Karnasis.6892 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    You also seem to be nerfing Deadeye when the concern is actual builds to be too good for Thief, like condi DD or sword DD, not cheese builds which will now be gutted to unviability when the backstab build folded to any tanky target. My concern being that balancing is done from the bottom up instead of from the top down.

    I mean, you said it right there "cheese builds". Anything that is truly awful to fight because it can't be beaten by player skill on any class. My personal thoughts would be like Perma stealth Deadeye. Yes it can be beaten, but you have to somehow be a god tier player (or just very lucky) to catch them imo. I'm an average player and I can't beat it. However I am also playing the wrong class to be able to compete with them (mesmer). My understanding is necros have a really good chance to take em out, but even then it's not a guarantee.

    permastealth is bleh imo just in general, no matter the class.

    Mesmer is about the best class against power rifle deadeye because they have zero AoE and can't outrun a Mesmer, just drop a crapton of condi's on them and see what happens. Holo's also do fine as they can jump on them, use the reveal and burst them before they shadow meld.

    Cheese doesn't mean strong, it just means that it kills unskilled players/bad builds easilly.

  • I like how you're intentionally breaking class mechanics that were made specifically for classes, such as skills' cooldowns matching profession cooldowns so that they can actually be used together the way they're meant to. /s

    This patch is certainly the beginning of the smoothbrain era for this game. Throw some pepegas in the chat boiz, gw2 is dead.

    Throw some pepegas in the chat boiz, gw2 is dead.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The team is literally just caving to the loudest players on their decision making lol.
    Sad their not up to the tasks themselves like what they get paid for.

  • Mogwai.4015Mogwai.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the update, Cal. Out of curiosity, do you have any plans to better diversify group stability access to other specs, like Tempest and Druid, for example?

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What about armor of earth? The problem was not the stab support nerf it was the nerfing all of the classes build in support but not applying that same nerf to the support version if keeping with the logic of this update.

    The problem with the stab balancing in this game is that all of the support is on one class every other classes have next to nothing if any at all. An ele giving 1 stack of stab on a 2 sec duration at 240 range is nothing it may cause more harm then good if a necro hits it making it into a fear. Look at Rock solid is needs a massive update way before any thing else ele has and any other stab effect in this game.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Following the new (highly welcomed) approach to leave the stability skills alone, could you please clarify the Foot in the Grave situation?
    Do you still plan to remove 1 out of 3 necro stability options? Or the changes to the trait also will be discarded?

  • Ragi.7291Ragi.7291 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    there are some interesting things, cheer up!
    On the other hand the problem with "Assassin's Signet Active", in WvW (only) I specify.
    All the classes whose thief has access to too much power, precision and ferocity in Wvw, because of his equipment, runes, sigil, food, oils, skill and trait + stealth attack (crit obligatory with weapon swap on Superior Sigil of Vision) compared to pvp.
    And so it will always one shot in time in WvW with a stealth attack (Backstab or Death's Judgment) that always crit with swap weapon.

    Increased the CD in Wvw is not the problem, maybe can be prevented from using " Active signets" by being stealthy.
    (sneak attacks with crit obligatory do enough damage already in WvW, no need to be up domages with "Assassin's Signet Active".)

    It may be small, but a sneaky one-shot isn't a fight, it's an execution. It's not fun.

  • ilMasa.2546ilMasa.2546 Member ✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    General balance concerns
    we’ll be continuing to iterate as we gather more data and feedback based on actual gameplay. We’re prepared to act quickly in response to anything egregious that pops up, whether it’s an individual build greatly overperforming or a heavy skew of the meta in any particular fashion (unkillable tanks, dominant condition builds pushing out any power builds, etc).

    Remember the permastealth trapper build?!The wvw comunity asked to look into it for a year,based on actual gameplay.
    Got fixed only the day after a guy solo killed Slothasor with it

    So yea cant wait to see the godlike "reaction time speed" in 2020

    you are not prepared

  • @Infusion.7149 said:

    @MELORD.5013 said:
    nerf Siege/Condi Rev/Banners all should be good 👌

    This is the WvW post, condi rev isn't a thing (yet?). Conditions on revenant mace+axe are toned down anyway.
    "Searing Fissure: Adjusted initial burning from 3 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 10 seconds. Increased additional burning duration from 1 second to 4 seconds"
    "Temporal Rift: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.01. Adjusted torment from 2 stacks for 12 seconds to 1 stack for 1 second"
    "Scorchrazor: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01. Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 1 second"

    @XiTe.1079 said:
    Thank you very much that you are reconsidering the changes towards the stab mantra and stand your ground, however please dont forget about the boon duration - 1 second is just waaaay too less for the amount of immob/cc there is in the game currently.

    More Feedback:

    Winds of disenchantment: The problem of the skill is not the amount of boons it strip and that it stops boon uptime or the amount of targets it can hit. The only, big issue with this elite is that you can move with it. I really would like to see the stationary version back into the game. This would be enough balance, as you can properly kite it, rather than being chased by 2-5 at once and cant get out of it, literally obliberating whole squads.
    Also you said you that you want make CDs matter - this would do the trick with this elite.
    Current state, and it wont change after the patch, warriors just have to shut down their brain, activate "Defiance Stance" and bubble run onto the enemy and there till its over.
    By changing it back to stationary, you would really have to think about the placement again, reading enemy movement and so on - making it really matter again.

    Merciful Intervention: In my opinion, giving wvw the pvp version of this skill is a mistake. Its pretty much the only reliable skill to properly save one or two players in large scale fights.

    The way to counter bubbles is generally CC , as interrupts stop the bubble. That's why scrapper hammers (Thunderclap specifically) are very useful, provided the spellbreaker doesn't have massive amounts of stability : all leap combos in that lightning field are dazes. In addition, unblockable reaper's mark from necromancers/scourges/reapers can fear the spellbreakers if there is no stability ; likewise with heralds' Surge of the Mists knockback , Drop the Hammer knockdowns, and other warriors' Earthshaker / Backbreaker.

    People were clamoring for no downstate, making MI much weaker is sort of a way to achieve that.

    OR maybe just convert that stab into fear :wink:

  • @Infusion.7149 said:
    The way to counter bubbles is generally CC , as interrupts stop the bubble. That's why scrapper hammers (Thunderclap specifically) are very useful, ...

    It will be even more useful with the patch when taking explosives!
    Since it does no impact on its initial dazing hit but brings you infight, you get the Explosive Entrance buff for its first damage tick.
    That means your stun is followed by an AoE daze 1s afterward if you take the Flashbang trait.

  • Condi has its drawbacks in pvp... you removed amulets. What are you doing to even out condi in WvW? If you do nothing, fix cleanses so they will compete please!

  • @Frax.4562 said:
    Winds of Disenchantment still needs a look at, it's a welcome change that it's only 5 targets now, but it's one of the most obnoxious skill in the game with the trait enchantment collapse especially when a group has a lot of spellbreakers. A tweak to it's duration or boon removal interval would be good, with enchantment collapse trait getting a higher than 1s icd.

    It's close to impossible to do anything when the enemies just rush you with more bubbles when they are bigger, and then when the duration goes down, they come with another set of bubbles and keep repeating it (effectively chaining bubbles) until you are dead and there's not much to do about it at that point. It hurts the smaller groups.

    This is so true! It's ridiculous that one spell can take out an entire opposing squad without anyone else on the attacking squad doing much of anything. Just waves of bubbles and everyone is dead. How is that considered WvW fighting?

    That said, I have to admit, I'm disgusted by all this "balancing" in WvW. Seriously, if you guys spent half your time on new content for us that you spend on "balancing" we'd be thrilled. Every effort you begin fizzles and dies a quick death and the last "A Message from Andrew Gray" posting didn't mention ANYTHING for WvW. I guess we are getting the message loud and clear that you want us to find a new realm vs. realm game?

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    Can those banners be completely removed? (Dragon, Turtle, Centaur)

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeLys.5380 said:

    @Frax.4562 said:
    Winds of Disenchantment still needs a look at, it's a welcome change that it's only 5 targets now, but it's one of the most obnoxious skill in the game with the trait enchantment collapse especially when a group has a lot of spellbreakers. A tweak to it's duration or boon removal interval would be good, with enchantment collapse trait getting a higher than 1s icd.

    It's close to impossible to do anything when the enemies just rush you with more bubbles when they are bigger, and then when the duration goes down, they come with another set of bubbles and keep repeating it (effectively chaining bubbles) until you are dead and there's not much to do about it at that point. It hurts the smaller groups.

    This is so true! It's ridiculous that one spell can take out an entire opposing squad without anyone else on the attacking squad doing much of anything. Just waves of bubbles and everyone is dead. How is that considered WvW fighting?

    That said, I have to admit, I'm disgusted by all this "balancing" in WvW. Seriously, if you guys spent half your time on new content for us that you spend on "balancing" we'd be thrilled. Every effort you begin fizzles and dies a quick death and the last "A Message from Andrew Gray" posting didn't mention ANYTHING for WvW. I guess we are getting the message loud and clear that you want us to find a new realm vs. realm game?

    That has nothing to do with the bubble itself and everything with how utterly dependant todays meta zerg is on boons, to the point where they die if they loose the boons.

    And coincidentally, it seems like boons are being substantially cut in the patch. Will it do anything? Who knows, zergs are running on like 1000%+ boon duration overcapacity so even a 50% nerf will probably have marginal impact.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeLys.5380 said:

    @Frax.4562 said:
    Winds of Disenchantment still needs a look at, it's a welcome change that it's only 5 targets now, but it's one of the most obnoxious skill in the game with the trait enchantment collapse especially when a group has a lot of spellbreakers. A tweak to it's duration or boon removal interval would be good, with enchantment collapse trait getting a higher than 1s icd.

    It's close to impossible to do anything when the enemies just rush you with more bubbles when they are bigger, and then when the duration goes down, they come with another set of bubbles and keep repeating it (effectively chaining bubbles) until you are dead and there's not much to do about it at that point. It hurts the smaller groups.

    This is so true! It's ridiculous that one spell can take out an entire opposing squad without anyone else on the attacking squad doing much of anything. Just waves of bubbles and everyone is dead. How is that considered WvW fighting?

    That said, I have to admit, I'm disgusted by all this "balancing" in WvW. Seriously, if you guys spent half your time on new content for us that you spend on "balancing" we'd be thrilled. Every effort you begin fizzles and dies a quick death and the last "A Message from Andrew Gray" posting didn't mention ANYTHING for WvW. I guess we are getting the message loud and clear that you want us to find a new realm vs. realm game?

    Lol so u think wings skill is the problem and not the insane boon and currupt/condi spam via fb and scourge?