Balance Update Update - WvW - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Balance Update Update - WvW

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Comments

  • @Anput.4620 said:

    @Karnasis.6892 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    You also seem to be nerfing Deadeye when the concern is actual builds to be too good for Thief, like condi DD or sword DD, not cheese builds which will now be gutted to unviability when the backstab build folded to any tanky target. My concern being that balancing is done from the bottom up instead of from the top down.

    I mean, you said it right there "cheese builds". Anything that is truly awful to fight because it can't be beaten by player skill on any class. My personal thoughts would be like Perma stealth Deadeye. Yes it can be beaten, but you have to somehow be a god tier player (or just very lucky) to catch them imo. I'm an average player and I can't beat it. However I am also playing the wrong class to be able to compete with them (mesmer). My understanding is necros have a really good chance to take em out, but even then it's not a guarantee.

    permastealth is bleh imo just in general, no matter the class.

    Mesmer is about the best class against power rifle deadeye because they have zero AoE and can't outrun a Mesmer, just drop a crapton of condi's on them and see what happens. Holo's also do fine as they can jump on them, use the reveal and burst them before they shadow meld.

    Cheese doesn't mean strong, it just means that it kills unskilled players/bad builds easilly.

    I dunno. On my main mes, I avoid thieves like the plaque cause they can steal plasma and bam they get insta boons.

    Aka: Sin The Alluring/Tormentor/Terrorizer/Terrible/Insane/Fragrant/Subtle/Vigilante/Explosive/Saint/Demonic
    SF: Prescribed - [Rx] ~ Crimson Blackout - [CBo] ~ One Of The Seven Deadly [SINs]
    DB: The Crazy Gods - [gods] ~ Crazy Gods - [Gods]

  • edited February 13, 2020

    I don't know but the correction of the skillsystem is in my eyes just one small step of a much longer way that must be walked. There are several problems in wvw (and not just since some days or weeks) that did not just belong to the skillsystem. I know it is neccessary, too but in my personal opinion the whole wvw-mechanic has to get an turnaround so that the mode will be playable again - and actually it is not, especially for roaming or smallscale.

    • Squads should only be a maximum of 20 members, so it is not just singleblobbing the whole time and smaller groups won't be flamed from map
    • it should not be possible to enter a building in downstate (ele for example)
    • player with 5 or more buffs should not be able to go invisible
    • the range of siege should be decreased (a lot)
    • delete stonemist and build an arena or anything like that or delete it to be able to go T3
    • connected server should get automatic the status of the fuller server so winning team transfers are not possible
    • player should get more rewards/loot/reward track like 10% each week when they finished platimum the week before until a max of 50% (and just if they still were on the same server all the weeks before)
    • I know NOT A SINGLE MMO where it is possible to kill another player with just one skill - delete this possibility everytime you find this in the game. This is ppure poison
    • Player on outnumbered maps probably could get an option of a special buff like more siegedamage or to call an NPC or anything like that
    • In an taken garrison it it should not be possible to build up an waypoint. Another option could be that a fraction could only build up 2 waypoints max on a single map (plus spawn) which could be a tactical increasement

    I think there are hundred ideas more that could bring gameplay and fun back to wvw, but I also feel resignation because everytime some chance will be at the horizon the most urgent things are out of view....

  • Very glad to see the update on the patch. The revisions on stability was a good choice. We never want to go back to how it was in pre hots and early hot days when they messed with Stab. Also didnt see anything about CC and damaging abilities. I really think it will hurt the game play a lot for certain classes/ weapon types if the cc and damage split stays. Anyways keep up the work and stay in contact with the community ^_^

  • What about the nerfs to reaper? Mostly I meant the stability nerfs which already is very low on reaper and cutting it even lower will make the class even more unplayable. Since it already is already almost never seen class in WvW and more than nerfs it needs buffs so it might be a viable alternative to scourge at least in some cases.

  • Sandzibar.5134Sandzibar.5134 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    what are you even talking about ? before you spout nonsense and hate anet for no reason check the facts.
    dolyak signet on warrior has 40 sec cd in wvw and pvp. not 30sec.

    What are YOU talking about?.. he is obviously talking about dolyak stance on soulbeast given the CD references.

    Maybe you should spend some time off the puter and chill out. Then youd look less like an angry muppet lol.

  • Hi all, Arenanet.
    As a Weaver, i really can´t understand the reasons to take a step back if it comes to Dolyak Stance for Soulbeast.

    Can someone, maybe even someone from Arenanet, explain me why its more important for a class with 900 to 1800+ range, to keep a better access to stability, than lets say, a staff Weaver with Twist of Fate and, maybe, Unravel?

    Before whriting this, i did take a look on Dolyak Stance again, and wow...removing all movement impairing conditions, - 33% damage taken by BOTH power and condition damage (no way to corrupt it), 6 stacks of of stability for 6 sec. base (opposed to 1 stack for 4 sec on stance use by Weaver), and a stunbreak on top.

    Staying with staff Weaver as example, what will we get? 1 stack of stability, on Lahar.... the most useless skill in the hole arsenal of a power based staff Weaver (and maybe the most useless weapon skill in the entire game), between earth/water . Its not fire/air, or at least fire/earth... no, its between earth and water.

    But maybe i am wrong. While waiting for Meteors Showers cd, i can switch to earth/water, my skills in these attunement(s) doesnt matter anyway in large scale combat, so maybe i should be happy with my one stack of stability on Lahar, while doing....waiting?

    I am pretty curious what the barrier gain on using stances will look like. Considering that barrier gain for weaver with this upcoming patch will already be tuned down (like instead of 600 barrier with 1400 healpower, it will be like...??) Will it be several thousands of barrier like scourges for pressing an F-button with no stat investment at all?
    I doubt it.

    And because there may be someone talking about Soulbeast are "not asked for" if it comes to large scale wvw... Weavers are not, too. Every commander will happily switch any weaver for another Firebrand, Scourge, or Revenant.

  • No, really Arenanet, can you make Twist of Fate turn into Dolyak stance? It would be so much more usefull, even loosing the ammo thingy.
    And sorry, i am angry, and english istnt my language...

  • @Jeran.6850 said:
    No, really Arenanet, can you make Twist of Fate turn into Dolyak stance? It would be so much more usefull, even loosing the ammo thingy.
    And sorry, i am angry, and english istnt my language...

    Isn't that basically what Armor of Earth is for?

  • Celsith.2753Celsith.2753 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm disappointed that you are caving to the crying of the masses. Players in any game mode have the tendency to want to preserve or gain play that enables them to gain the largest amount of reward with the smallest of effort, it's just human nature.

    Which is why it is YOUR job to balance and decide what is needed, not ours.

    980k+ WvW kills
    Diamond No Life
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct

  • I didnt know that Armor of Earth removes all movement impairing conditions while giving you a 6 sec long, non corruptable, - 33% power and condi damage effect for all its duration , and on 30sec. cooldown too.
    I also try my my best to not know, that Soulhbeast can right now not enhance its 6 stacks of stability by 66% for pressing yust another utility button, while weavers for a 20% duration gain, have to run an certain elite skill

  • Gwaihir.1745Gwaihir.1745 Member ✭✭✭

    Slash the boon spam.

    Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds.

    Quality balance changes^TM

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭

    Please reconsider nerfing conditions on Engineer. Condi engineer is just so bad and you are nerfing it even further...

    [NUKE]

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Well 2020 the end of thief, the end of roaming or what is left of it as we know it, etc. I mean the heavy nerfs to thief alone will unbalance the game mode to the point that it will just breed unkillable heal bot tanks. So they are going to realize how much caving in causes so many uninstalls its going to be more dead than ever.

  • Gwaihir.1745, please believe me, i agree…
    just that there ist inst a way for ele to play the game without boons, and never was.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sandzibar.5134 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    what are you even talking about ? before you spout nonsense and hate anet for no reason check the facts.
    dolyak signet on warrior has 40 sec cd in wvw and pvp. not 30sec.

    What are YOU talking about?.. he is obviously talking about dolyak stance on soulbeast given the CD references.

    Maybe you should spend some time off the puter and chill out. Then youd look less like an angry muppet lol.

    "obvious" to you, who seems to be a ranger main, im maining warrior and warrior has dolyak signet, which is existed way before dolyak stance.
    Coincidentely its cd is 40 and is about to be raised to 60 aswell. So for me it was "obvious" that he was talking about the signet.

    So yea, i admit its my fault for not realizing he was talking about the ranger skill, oops.

    Still, you are the one who sounds angry about anet and apparently me, maybe you should follow your own advise. Im chilling out 4 out of 7 days, every single week, dont worry about me lol.

  • @Frax.4562 said:
    Winds of Disenchantment still needs a look at, it's a welcome change that it's only 5 targets now, but it's one of the most obnoxious skill in the game with the trait enchantment collapse especially when a group has a lot of spellbreakers. A tweak to it's duration or boon removal interval would be good, with enchantment collapse trait getting a higher than 1s icd.

    I can see why this is annoying, but isn't this the very purpose of the spec? To prevent/strip boons?

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    the only stab that shouldn't be nerfed imo is stand your ground. I get that you guys are increasing stun break cds but only zerg builds use this, its not used in pvp or by solo roaming. it only comes into play with 5 or more people. it could maybe get a 10 sec increase, but anything past that is gray area for me. imo buff group stab sources from other classes or it will be back to 2 guards per party. you have which is awesome but theres still some way to go, namely with radius increases and secondly with adding a stack or two. I get that stab is guards thing, but no one class should have a stranglehold on such a game changing boon.

    mes mantra could use an increase I guess, but again no one really uses it. maybe double current cd? pls don't overkill it. i'm not someone who actively uses it on all my builds but it kills me to think that you guys are removing what usable skills there are in this game. also pls buff radius to 360 if you guys are going to nerf it hard...

    lastly, winds of disenchantment. this skill needs a buff. a big one. it looks strong, but considering you have to blow 2 cds to even think about using it, is wrong. it says its a 5 sec channel, its actually a 10 sec channel. lets fix this. this is what I imagine: 60 sec cd, 5 target, 5 sec duration, 5 sec block. yes that's right, add a block. there are plenty of unblockables out there that will counter this, and it might actually see some use in pvp or even roaming.

    edit
    instead of a block maybe -50% damage reduction.

    edit
    ok, ok. one last thing, honest. pls don't do 250% cd increases to some skills that have big animations. it makes those weapons useless, since ppl are more likely to dodge those attacks completely and thus the entire attack, then faster animations with channels or whatnot. you're pretty much guaranteed to get damage on those. don't kill diversity anet.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @EagleDelta.4726 said:

    @Frax.4562 said:
    Winds of Disenchantment still needs a look at, it's a welcome change that it's only 5 targets now, but it's one of the most obnoxious skill in the game with the trait enchantment collapse especially when a group has a lot of spellbreakers. A tweak to it's duration or boon removal interval would be good, with enchantment collapse trait getting a higher than 1s icd.

    I can see why this is annoying, but isn't this the very purpose of the spec? To prevent/strip boons?

    The very purpose of Druid is to heal allies and they've never been good in a zerg

    @Celsith.2753 said:
    I'm disappointed that you are caving to the crying of the masses. Players in any game mode have the tendency to want to preserve or gain play that enables them to gain the largest amount of reward with the smallest of effort, it's just human nature.

    Which is why it is YOUR job to balance and decide what is needed, not ours.

    Yes, bringing back pirate ship because no one can push into a zerg and avoid getting stun locked and eating 5 un-nerfed CoR's to the face is deffinitly what WvW needs

    @Jeran.6850 said:
    I didnt know that Armor of Earth removes all movement impairing conditions while giving you a 6 sec long, non corruptable, - 33% power and condi damage effect for all its duration , and on 30sec. cooldown too.
    I also try my my best to not know, that Soulhbeast can right now not enhance its 6 stacks of stability by 66% for pressing yust another utility button, while weavers for a 20% duration gain, have to run an certain elite skill

    Just go play fire staff meteor spam in a zerg liek every other Ele and let rangers have the one thing they can actually do well in WvW

  • Good to know the boon kitten meta will still be alive, but with less ability to deal with them.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    Siege is suppose to be there to delay enemies knocking on your keep til your people show up, not push them away.

    Where does it say this? I didn't read that in the manual/in-game tutorial ;)

    Seriously, though. ACs don't do anything to a giant zerg, because they have more than 50 people - so they just mitigate the damage (i.e. share it). Frankly there should not be any target cap on siege. This is yet another example of SNOWBALLING, where giant, dominant groups gain even more benefits.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lmao, excuse to give thieves perma stealth is cause they can't avoid zergs, maybe get some map awareness in a zone which can hold 100+ enemies, plus the thing called mounts, you think thieves have it tough? what about the classes that don't have stealth and have to avoid those zergs too, what a joke.

    Last few roamers, gee I wonder why, could it be the power creep of 5 years that has left stealth and mobility and crazy tank specs the best roamers? and if you're playing a class with limited access to any of those you have no choice but to be in a group to survive crazy one shot skills and combos, and some specs have so much support that even running just one of them turns the tide in fights.

    Every class is getting toned down this patch, not just thieves, who will still have a huge stealth and mobility advantage. Too many extremes in damage and support in the game that they've had to constantly one up to the other side of balance to try and fix it but only make it worse.

    But yeah, sure, the game was in a good place that you were still enjoying.... oh wait you had already left the game.

    ^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
    "There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    Frankly there should not be any target cap on siege.

    sounds fun. lets turn player vs player into siege vs siege.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Lmao, excuse to give thieves perma stealth is cause they can't avoid zergs, maybe get some map awareness in a zone which can hold 100+ enemies, plus the thing called mounts, you think thieves have it tough? what about the classes that don't have stealth and have to avoid those zergs too, what a joke.

    Last few roamers, gee I wonder why, could it be the power creep of 5 years that has left stealth and mobility and crazy tank specs the best roamers? and if you're playing a class with limited access to any of those you have no choice but to be in a group to survive crazy one shot skills and combos, and some specs have so much support that even running just one of them turns the tide in fights.

    Every class is getting toned down this patch, not just thieves, who will still have a huge stealth and mobility advantage. Too many extremes in damage and support in the game that they've had to constantly one up to the other side of balance to try and fix it but only make it worse.

    But yeah, sure, the game was in a good place that you were still enjoying.... oh wait you had already left the game.

    I have to agree no one can seriously think thief perma stealthing is a thing because they can't avoid zergs,that's just silly.
    Perma stealth exist on thieves because it's this games stealth rogue class just as it exists on the rogues of other mmo's, that's thieves excuse to why it's a thing :)

  • Jeddite.8620Jeddite.8620 Member ✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    dear new balance team,
    i come back from break like 3 month, read this and i am spechless.

    i mean in roaming (1vs1 / small scale) there are a lot builds for monkys, right? or let's say for people with handycap.
    lets pick one (there are a lot of other builds), the condi mirage build. this perma doge build with "deceptiv evasion" and "infinite horizon". the only thing you need to do is to doge. you can't be hit while doging and deal damage while doing it. this is a top tier pvp build and it works even better in wvw because of the endu-reg food. you really can perma doge.
    for human with handycap perfect. they struggel in real life, but they can have a great time in gw2. you give them love. its ok.

    otherwise this is the reason why gw2 is not competitive and dont play any role in e-sports, right?

    but WHY??? you touch the actually 5er roaming (i mean, ok, its already death), 15 havoc groups and the zerg meta. its was great.
    you deal damge -> you heal or negate damage with barrier/protection/rite of the great dwarf
    you cc -> give stabi or condi clean
    you give boon -> you coruppt boon
    etc... it was good

    now you reduce everything. worst thing is the damage reduce overall. it makes it harder to win fights when you are outnumbered.
    this is another mass > skill patch! i was looking for something like remove downstate, remove ae cap in wvw. that would be great.

    but the best thing was that every class (beside ranger and thief (blob fights) have a place in the actually meta, right? they have one or more builds that are viable.

    this will change. range damage (rev, scourge, ele) deleted.
    we are looking to a melee ball meta (high armor/hp classes). you can't break push any more or not as good as you can now.

    in that melee ball meta will be: support guard / burn guard (only nerfed core-burn,LOL), paladin warrior (support/damage), reaper and thats it.
    no need of other class, if you really want to try hard.

    classes like ele got complete deleted.

    its the only low hp / low armor armor class. you complete stomped the defense and damage.

    here some explain;
    Twist of Fate: got doubel nerfed:

    Twist of Fate: Increased ammo recharge from 40 seconds to 75 seconds
    Bolstered Elements: This trait now grants barrier instead of stability when using a stance skill

    but, hey, we got Laher: big joke!!!

    arcane: complete stoped. there are 12 traits (with the basics traits) and 9 traits will be nerfed. i saw complete reworking traits lines, but never a stomp like this.

    and one thing you really need to explain: "rite of the great dwarf" (elite) untouched, "versed in stone" untouched!!!

    but you nerf ele core defense:
    Arcane Shield: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 45 seconds
    Final Shielding: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds
    Elemental Surge: Reduced immobilize duration from 2 seconds to 1 second

    tripel nerf.

    i mean you forgot it. right? otherwise there is no apologize. its like strongest defense skill and its passiv is untouched and the worst getting nerfed (on lowhp/lowarmor).

    there are a lot of damage nerf like other classes also have too, but one is funny and the other delete ele.

    Ice Spike:
    Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.91. Adjusted vulnerability duration from 5 stacks for 10 seconds to 12 stacks for 6 seconds.
    Increased cooldown from 6 seconds to 8 seconds!!!

    i mean the worst ae spell in this game (or is eruption more worse?),
    3/4 cast time and after that it needs 3 or 4 sek. till it hit the ground?,
    this spell really need higher cooldown :DDD

    Meteor Shower: Reduced power coefficient from 1.6 to 1.1

    this is big!!!

    this is not fair, if you see that wells nearly untouched
    Well of Corruption: Reduced pulse power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.45
    Well of Suffering: Reduced pulse power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.9

    attention: fun fact!!!

    i have 17k hp at my weaver build. if i drop a meteor into a zerg (wich is really the one and only real damage source), im half hp. but its ok, i also deal damage.
    if this go live -> you get more damage back than you deal.
    retaliation is untouched!!!

    this patch is not a step forward into the future, its a step back into the past to melee mono blobs.

    kein applaus für scheiße

    p.s. sorry for my bad english.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I have to agree no one can seriously think thief perma stealthing is a thing because they can't avoid zergs,that's just silly.
    Perma stealth exist on thieves because it's this games stealth rogue class just as it exists on the rogues of other mmo's, that's thieves excuse to why it's a thing :)

    Except most other mmo's don't have perma stealth (this isn't even the first time it's happened to this class in this game, they can't seem to learn from mistakes), and handle stealth balance in a much more reasonable way with tells, limitations on resources for use, and on initiate and disengage situations, not entirely built fully into combat with damage and support like this game, with little to no counters to start from the beginning. It's taken them years to slowly implement a few counters with reveals and then they go and counter that away with deadeye, typical anet fix to add another layer on another layer instead of fixing under layers.

    ^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
    "There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I have to agree no one can seriously think thief perma stealthing is a thing because they can't avoid zergs,that's just silly.
    Perma stealth exist on thieves because it's this games stealth rogue class just as it exists on the rogues of other mmo's, that's thieves excuse to why it's a thing :)

    Except most other mmo's don't have perma stealth (this isn't even the first time it's happened to this class in this game, they can't seem to learn from mistakes), and handle stealth balance in a much more reasonable way with tells, limitations on resources for use, and on initiate and disengage situations, not entirely built fully into combat with damage and support like this game, with little to no counters to start from the beginning. It's taken them years to slowly implement a few counters with reveals and then they go and counter that away with deadeye, typical anet fix to add another layer on another layer instead of fixing under layers.

    But they do? And easier to maintain.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    Frankly there should not be any target cap on siege.

    sounds fun. lets turn player vs player into siege vs siege.

    You know removing (or increasing) the cap wouldn't do anything like that.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • SWI.4127SWI.4127 Member ✭✭✭

    lastly, winds of disenchantment. this skill needs a buff. a big one. it looks strong, but considering you have to blow 2 cds to even think about using it, is wrong. it says its a 5 sec channel, its actually a 10 sec channel. lets fix this. this is what I imagine: 60 sec cd, 5 target, 5 sec duration, 5 sec block. yes that's right, add a block. there are plenty of unblockables out there that will counter this, and it might actually see some use in pvp or even roaming.

    This is arguably the single most impactful skill in the game and you want a buff? One of the few ways to even counter it is to corrupt the warrior and you want to take that away? Sorry but this is a good example of why Anet shouldn't just listen to anyone.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SWI.4127 said:

    lastly, winds of disenchantment. this skill needs a buff. a big one. it looks strong, but considering you have to blow 2 cds to even think about using it, is wrong. it says its a 5 sec channel, its actually a 10 sec channel. lets fix this. this is what I imagine: 60 sec cd, 5 target, 5 sec duration, 5 sec block. yes that's right, add a block. there are plenty of unblockables out there that will counter this, and it might actually see some use in pvp or even roaming.

    This is arguably the single most impactful skill in the game and you want a buff? One of the few ways to even counter it is to corrupt the warrior and you want to take that away? Sorry but this is a good example of why Anet shouldn't just listen to anyone.

    It only seems so impactful due to the incredibly ridiculous boon and corrupt spam that zergs has become resulting in such a skill as wings being powerfull and thank god for it.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @SWI.4127 said:
    This is arguably the single most impactful skill in the game and you want a buff? One of the few ways to even counter it is to corrupt the warrior and you want to take that away? Sorry but this is a good example of why Anet shouldn't just listen to anyone.

    I want it to be usable and not a suicide button. nothing is being taken away lol since realistically the only way this is stopped currently in practice is swipe or corrupt boon. maybe just the duration fix would make this skill less horrid. cd reduct would be nice too since the actual duration is getting cut in half.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • ArokVaar.2451ArokVaar.2451 Member
    edited February 14, 2020

    i cant believe i felt like logging in to respond to this ridiculous "balancing" attempt with the disclaimer of it not being iterated much (or at all). anet devs.... plz play wvw - roaming, zvz and gvg before u "plan" out ur balances. clearly some of u devs log in and flip a camp and do ur "dailies" and log. you anet devs are way out of touch of anything wvw. just stop breaking more of whats broken if u have no clue or worse.. taken cues from that one dev who does a bit of silly in wvw and is the go-to expert for all things wvw in ur offices.

  • edited February 15, 2020

    @Amelie De Germania.2385 said:

    • delete stonemist and build an arena or anything like that or delete it to be able to go T3

    I have suggested similar in the past. Players fed up with "big castle" fights and some servers never move from it during the week fighting them.
    Remove SMC, replace with an Arena. Guild that holds the new Arena, Tier 1: GvG, max 10 players. Tier 2: GvG, Max 20 players. Tier 3: Guild/Server rewarded small buff of some sorts, GvG/Free for all, max 50 players.
    Tiered up depending on how many fights for that Guild/server won.
    Rewarded like the old Golden Dolyak buff for the week/duration it is T3

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @pure dead brilliant.4073 said:

    @Amelie De Germania.2385 said:

    • delete stonemist and build an arena or anything like that or delete it to be able to go T3

    I have suggested similar in the past. Players fed up with "big castle" fights and some servers never move from it during the week fighting them.
    Remove SMC, replace with an Arena. Guild that holds the new Arena, Tier 1: GvG, max 10 players. Tier 2: GvG, Max 20 players. Tier 3: Guild/Server rewarded small buff of some sorts, GvG/Free for all, max 50 players.
    Tiered up depending on how many fights for that Guild/server won.
    Rewarded like the old Golden Dolyak buff for the week/duration it is T3

    Here's a better idea. If you're fed up with SMC, go to the other 3 maps available without it.
    Or remove bloodlust ruins and replace them with arenas, where the small handful of broken down gvg guilds can go gvg on top of the 4 other arena's they don't bother to use.
    You don't remove popular things from the game, you improve things that are not used often.

    ^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
    "There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther

  • @Amelie De Germania.2385 said:
    the whole wvw-mechanic has to get an turnaround so that the mode will be playable again

    Agreed, you've hit the nail on the head! :)

    To quote Elon Musk during an interview, "issues should be deconstructed to their raw fundamentals" before implementation, in WvW's case, the patch is good in that there's acknowledgement towards the game-mode's issues, however, when 50 new players clash with 10 veteran players, would the math still leans towards the 50 players post-patch? Could it be that perhaps macro factors such as player numbers and game mechanics are the core issues? Would nudging 600+ objects (time/money invested with an already understaffed team) really make a difference in the long run?

    There's fundamental design questions to ask on paper before coding:
    1. A player tried to solo capture a camp, killed by a group of 50 with speedy mobility, what's next? Is it due to the duration imbalance to capture a camp vs. duration for 50 people to reach the camp?
    2. A team of 5 using a solid team build tried to capture a tower, killed by a speedy group of 50, what's next? Do they get extra-points/rewards for effort?
    3. Group of 10, held a tower against a group of 50 for 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 1 hour? But still lost, extra points or perks? No? Would they hold the tower again next time?
    4. New player enters WvW 1st time, looks for a party to join, party/squad window always empty, problem?
    7. New player enters WvW, runs out of spawn, killed by a 3-4 stealth campers, problem?
    8. New player enters WvW, no commanders, night time, problem?
    9. Edge of the Mists resets the match every 3 hours, something there already working from the original engineers?
    10. Edge of the Mists stripped of rewards and leveling, now a ghost town, problem? Why?
    11. What if you encouraged 5 man parties (double points from capture) or gave players a reason/reward to work together in small groups instead of just zergs? Compared to nudging math for 600+ objects, doable? feasible?
    12. Why not use Edge of the Mists (weekend even with bonus x2 rewards) as a start point to test this patch? Generate some raw user sample data before patching across all other maps? Faster? Possible?

    And to use an analogy towards what Zimmerman mentioned about "Chess" in the book 'Rules of Play', if you are sharing an Macro environment between multiple players in games such as Chess, or even the Japanese game "Go", the underlying rules of "start" and "finish" + goals and objectives should be as fair and clear as possible. This is something missing in the current WvW, remnants of this design philosophy can still be found in GW1 Alliance battles + GW2's Edge of the Mists map (before the rewards nerf when it 1st launched): Player numbers (due to instancing) were fair, match resets were present, the focus for both were capturing objectives instead of just zergs, and GW1 Alliance battles punished zerging in terms of points, yet did not restrict the behavior (there was always an give and take)

    Additional classic games with great designs (balanced give and take):
    1. GW1 Factions: Alliance Battles - balanced design, capture point + team building focused, 3 teams of 4 players on each side, timer resets, balanced builds etc.
    2. Team Fortress: specific class roles (medic, tank, scout, engineer, spy - they had stealth mechanics too), team work were encouraged, balanced dynamics in combat, also a team point capture system
    3. Battlefield: their commander system and squad structure was well designed, did not have commanders compete for power, also capture points focused

    NA Server: Henge of Denravi
    WvW Builds: http://bit.do/gw2wvw

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Right now after this update your only going to see 2 support class your gurd and your eng i cant see tempest or druid making it though this update at all.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Jeddite.8620Jeddite.8620 Member ✭✭
    edited February 16, 2020

    /edit delete this post

  • Can Anet nerf Anet? so Anet cannot nerf anything no more?

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2020
    Heh,thank god i stopped playing this game. Nerfing thieves and their stealth uptime ? Kick out the last few roamers from wvw so the blobs can stay happy... FFing joke. The Only reason the few people running thieves or DE with more stealth uptime is to get away from those 20 man " Really Well Organized And Amazing Player"  ( Better ? ) groups that feel the need to chase you allover the map when you Arent on a stealth spec. To avoid annoyance and frustration because of the endless chasing, people adapt and run on a stealth spec to minimalize this from happening where they can Choose to bail from these situations without being chased forever by these groups.
    
    The only thief you see is solo roaming or roaming in a small group and it's usually players that Know how to play picking out people from big groups that get annoyed by the thieves doing it and start complaining that " nO cOunteR TO tHieF steaAltH"  and Always want it the easy road hence they already run in bigger groups. Roaming is something Anet is apparantly heavy against,because everything ever being done in wvw is Against roamers making it harder and harder for them to continue do what they do. We have several mechanics to fight stealth being it 2 types of traps and radar mechanics - theres reveal skills ingame Yet you're gonna nerf their stealth uptime. How about you just delete stealth alltogether ?
    
    Anet,Grab a thief and go into WvW and play small scale or solo as a "test" to see how well you do. Because i dont think you will do well at all and quickly see how many reveals and counters theres already in place. Also Malicious backstab is Not the issue,its Malice build up + all the damage modifiers making this damage possible,with all damage modifiers taken youre easily able to hit over 120% more damage. Malice on its own does not hit hard.
    
    The only times ive you seen you run in Wvw is in a zerg where you still play like you have absolutely no clue.
    
    It's a shame you cave in and listen to the wrong groups of people and youre about to make the wrong decisions,yet again.
    
    Good luck with this game !
    

    This post just got removed..Bwaha.
    Dont know why it shows up like this,its a straight copy from my "suspension" mail..

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:
    Heh,thank god i stopped playing this game. Nerfing thieves and their stealth uptime ? Kick out the last few roamers from wvw so the blobs can stay happy... FFing joke. The Only reason the few people running thieves or DE with more stealth uptime is to get away from those 20 man " Really Well Organized And Amazing Player" ( Better ? ) groups that feel the need to chase you allover the map when you Arent on a stealth spec. To avoid annoyance and frustration because of the endless chasing, people adapt and run on a stealth spec to minimalize this from happening where they can Choose to bail from these situations without being chased forever by these groups.

    The only thief you see is solo roaming or roaming in a small group and it's usually players that Know how to play picking out people from big groups that get annoyed by the thieves doing it and start complaining that " nO cOunteR TO tHieF steaAltH"  and Always want it the easy road hence they already run in bigger groups. Roaming is something Anet is apparantly heavy against,because everything ever being done in wvw is Against roamers making it harder and harder for them to continue do what they do. We have several mechanics to fight stealth being it 2 types of traps and radar mechanics - theres reveal skills ingame Yet you're gonna nerf their stealth uptime. How about you just delete stealth alltogether ?
    
    Anet,Grab a thief and go into WvW and play small scale or solo as a "test" to see how well you do. Because i dont think you will do well at all and quickly see how many reveals and counters theres already in place. Also Malicious backstab is Not the issue,its Malice build up + all the damage modifiers making this damage possible,with all damage modifiers taken youre easily able to hit over 120% more damage. Malice on its own does not hit hard.
    
    The only times ive you seen you run in Wvw is in a zerg where you still play like you have absolutely no clue.
    
    It's a shame you cave in and listen to the wrong groups of people and youre about to make the wrong decisions,yet again.
    
    Good luck with this game !
    

    This post just got removed..Bwaha.
    Dont know why it shows up like this,its a straight copy from my "suspension" mail..

    When you start with saying you stopped playing the game, the rest of the post is a pointless rant in defense of a mechanic that the " wrong groups of people" - ie almost everyone - thinks need fixing.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2020

    Nerf downstate health by 40% and res heal by 30% to make cleaving the same as it is now otherwise pressing F will reign supreme in any outnumbered smallscale fight.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

    I still think 18 seconds on meld swoop for SB is too long compared to other abilities, 15 would be more fair.

    You also seem to be nerfing Deadeye when the concern is actual builds to be too good for Thief, like condi DD or sword DD, not cheese builds which will now be gutted to unviability when the backstab build folded to any tanky target. My concern being that balancing is done from the bottom up instead of from the top down.

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

    Because the devs can't tell the difference and blanket nerf wvw and pvp alike? Why not copy paste their 'thank you for your feedback' message as well? shrug

    what are you even talking about ? before you spout nonsense and hate anet for no reason check the facts.
    dolyak signet on warrior has 40 sec cd in wvw and pvp. not 30sec.

    and soulbeast getting a cut in mobility is WELL deserved, a class with such a good long range option shouldnt also have such good mobility option on top.

    Why are you so fixated on longbow? 3 seconds in and they are forced to swap to melee, it is only 300 more range than other profs ranged options, like jesus, it is an option like you say, just an option.

    Why should that mean they need no mobility? The best roaming build for ranger atm doesn't even longbow.

    You seem incredibly biased just because longbow exists.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

    I still think 18 seconds on meld swoop for SB is too long compared to other abilities, 15 would be more fair.

    You also seem to be nerfing Deadeye when the concern is actual builds to be too good for Thief, like condi DD or sword DD, not cheese builds which will now be gutted to unviability when the backstab build folded to any tanky target. My concern being that balancing is done from the bottom up instead of from the top down.

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

    Because the devs can't tell the difference and blanket nerf wvw and pvp alike? Why not copy paste their 'thank you for your feedback' message as well? shrug

    what are you even talking about ? before you spout nonsense and hate anet for no reason check the facts.
    dolyak signet on warrior has 40 sec cd in wvw and pvp. not 30sec.

    and soulbeast getting a cut in mobility is WELL deserved, a class with such a good long range option shouldnt also have such good mobility option on top.

    Why are you so fixated on longbow? 3 seconds in and they are forced to swap to melee, it is only 300 more range than other profs ranged options, like jesus, it is an option like you say, just an option.

    Why should that mean they need no mobility? The best roaming build for ranger atm doesn't even longbow.

    You seem incredibly biased just because longbow exists.

    And you seem incredibly biased when its about ranger. You act like you have 0 mobillity on ranger. Which is not true.
    I never said ranger should have 0 mobility.
    I said the nerfs are well deserved. The nerfs did not remove rangers mobilizy, just increased cds.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2020

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

    I still think 18 seconds on meld swoop for SB is too long compared to other abilities, 15 would be more fair.

    You also seem to be nerfing Deadeye when the concern is actual builds to be too good for Thief, like condi DD or sword DD, not cheese builds which will now be gutted to unviability when the backstab build folded to any tanky target. My concern being that balancing is done from the bottom up instead of from the top down.

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Why does the balance patch list the PvP CD's and not the WvW ones? Dolyak says it will be increased from 40 to 60 but it is 30 in WvW, same with a few other skills.

    Because the devs can't tell the difference and blanket nerf wvw and pvp alike? Why not copy paste their 'thank you for your feedback' message as well? shrug

    what are you even talking about ? before you spout nonsense and hate anet for no reason check the facts.
    dolyak signet on warrior has 40 sec cd in wvw and pvp. not 30sec.

    and soulbeast getting a cut in mobility is WELL deserved, a class with such a good long range option shouldnt also have such good mobility option on top.

    Why are you so fixated on longbow? 3 seconds in and they are forced to swap to melee, it is only 300 more range than other profs ranged options, like jesus, it is an option like you say, just an option.

    Why should that mean they need no mobility? The best roaming build for ranger atm doesn't even longbow.

    You seem incredibly biased just because longbow exists.

    And you seem incredibly biased when its about ranger. You act like you have 0 mobillity on ranger. Which is not true.
    I never said ranger should have 0 mobility.
    I said the nerfs are well deserved. The nerfs did not remove rangers mobilizy, just increased cds.

    I never said that, i said that 18s on an ability that is purely mobility is outrageous for a non-utility skill, and that 15s would be more fair, which is still a 50% increase in CD.

    Especially when we will have Thiefs and Mesmers zooming around full speed still.

    I mean i also play Warrior, And Thief, and anything but Mesmer really.

  • Lol thanks for the future death of smokescreen and malicious backstab. 🤣🤣🤣. I like how you already nerf it extra and you haven’t even implemented the patch.

    Cheesy permastealth is not even that significant to fight with. Yes they are annoying but they dont do any significant damage to heavy armors or tanky builds. Its only effective against full zerk medium/light armor glass builds.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2020

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Lol thanks for the future death of smokescreen and malicious backstab. 🤣🤣🤣. I like how you already nerf it extra and you haven’t even implemented the patch.

    Cheesy permastealth is not even that significant to fight with. Yes they are annoying but they dont do any significant damage to heavy armors or tanky builds. Its only effective against full zerk medium/light armor glass builds.

    If there are other builds far more effective than permastealth thieves, nerfing permastealth isnt really a problem is it? Glad we got that cleared up.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • @Jeddite.8620 said:
    d
    i have 17k hp at my weaver build. if i drop a meteor into a zerg (wich is really the one and only real damage source), im half hp. but its ok, i also deal damage.
    if this go live -> you get more damage back than you deal.
    ** retaliation is untouched!!!**

    this patch is not a step forward into the future, its a step back into the past to melee mono blobs.

    Seriously? Retaliation untouched? Well that will be soooo much fun with the longer cool down times and nerfs to heals and healing power.

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi Everyone,

    General balance concerns
    We’ve read all the feedback and seen the concerns about future metas and the viability of certain professions and specializations after the update. After the patch goes out, we’ll be continuing to iterate as we gather more data and feedback based on actual gameplay. We’re prepared to act quickly in response to anything egregious that pops up, whether it’s an individual build greatly overperforming or a heavy skew of the meta in any particular fashion (unkillable tanks, dominant condition builds pushing out any power builds, etc). Once any major wrinkles are ironed out, we’ll settle back into the faster cadence that we mentioned previously as we work toward improving balance across the board.

    There’s still a lot of work to do, but this update should give us a good starting point to build from and we’re excited to see where things go.
    -The Systems Team

    Revert Pulmonary Impact (from Impacting Disruption) chnages please!

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1163930#Comment_1163930

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Lol thanks for the future death of smokescreen and malicious backstab. 🤣🤣🤣. I like how you already nerf it extra and you haven’t even implemented the patch.

    Cheesy permastealth is not even that significant to fight with. Yes they are annoying but they dont do any significant damage to heavy armors or tanky builds. Its only effective against full zerk medium/light armor glass builds.

    If there are other builds far more effective than permastealth thieves, nerfing permastealth isnt really a problem is it? Glad we got that cleared up.

    You just contradicted yourself. “It’s not good, so lets destroy it.”

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2020

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    Lol thanks for the future death of smokescreen and malicious backstab. 🤣🤣🤣. I like how you already nerf it extra and you haven’t even implemented the patch.

    Cheesy permastealth is not even that significant to fight with. Yes they are annoying but they dont do any significant damage to heavy armors or tanky builds. Its only effective against full zerk medium/light armor glass builds.

    If there are other builds far more effective than permastealth thieves, nerfing permastealth isnt really a problem is it? Glad we got that cleared up.

    You just contradicted yourself. “It’s not good, so lets destroy it.”

    Thats not a contradiction. Anet has already done it to other classes. So its normal.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.