Balance Update Update - PvP - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home PVP

Balance Update Update - PvP

124>

Comments

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2020

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    What radius 240? Thats alrdy 240 according to wiki.

    We may need to take a look at that then. It feels like 360. I'll double check today. If it is actually bigger than intended, that should be fixed.

    This pretty much combine necromancers utilities CPC and well of darkness. 30/35s cd. CPC is not exact the same but you get the point, i guess? So its like ahead of any of these utilities and its pretty much 2 in 1 for super low cd. Suggestion below that would be taking parts of it but not too strong at once.
    I would give it 6s duration, ~180 radius, 40-45s cd, pulse blind once per 2 seconds.

    40 seconds CD is what I was intending.

    Either shave the blind pulse or the AOE. You cannot have both. The first opens it to bruteforcing by melee, the second opens it to AOE or moves with a range outside of the circle.

    Its not up to you to decide what I can have or not. /shrug
    Currently SS rivals (even after patch hitting 45s cd lmao) 2 necromancers utilities at once and lasts nearly twice as blind field and merely 45s cd compared to TWO utilities 30/35s cd. (how many times should I repeat it so you can recognize it?)
    "Anet must decide what this skill is supposed to do. Is it a projectile block-for-stealth utility - remove pulsing blind entirely . Want it to be melee focused blind pulsing field - remove projectile blocking. And adjust its duration and cooldown accordingly" - proposal of my friend and I agree with it too.
    If you want to keep all this overloaded effects at once = it should be reduced in efficiency.
    If this goes through on 45s cd in the current form it still would be miles ahead of "well of darkness" or "CPC" at everything. It shouldnt be thaaaaaaat overloaded.
    P.S if its really bigger/lasts longer than intended... very nice of Anet... and we have to figure it out for them ? Is it so hard to give a skill proper radius and duration that match its description ... ?
    P.S.S- Actually thats lasts about 8 seconds while pulsing 9 blinds... ?

  • any changes to ranger spirits?

  • @Odik.4587 said:
    Its not up to you to decide what I can have or not. /shrug

    That was directed at regarding what should be opened to allow clear counter-play without invalidating the skill, not telling you specifically what you can and cannot have. That's up to the devs before anything else of course.

    Currently SS rivals (even after patch hitting 45s cd lmao) 2 necromancers utilities at once and lasts nearly twice as blind field and merely 45s cd compared to TWO utilities 30/35s cd. (how many times should I repeat it so you can recognize it?)

    Necromancer is not thief. It has a higher health pool and some of its traits require them to be damaged so they can get value out of them. I'm not recognizing it because I don't think it's a sound argument. What matters is how the skill fills a need the class it applies to has, and whether that skill has an avenue to counter it that is reasonably accessible. Whether or not it has the same CD as other skills on other classes is irrelevant. I haven't been complaining about ranger gs blocks all this time despite playing zerker with a shield ofhand.

    Also, necromancer has been underpowered for an incredibly long time.

    "Anet must decide what this skill is supposed to do. Is it a projectile block-for-stealth utility - remove pulsing blind entirely . Want it to be melee focused blind pulsing field - remove projectile blocking. And adjust its duration and cooldown accordingly" - proposal of my friend and I agree with it too.
    If you want to keep all this overloaded effects at once = it should be reduced in efficiency.

    If either one of the above effects gets removed, the cooldown should be reduced to 25 seconds again.
    If not, 45 seconds cd and a 2 second blind is sufficient.

    P.S if its really bigger than intended and lasts longer then intended... very nice of Anet... and we have to figure it out for them ? Is it so hard to give a skill proper radius and duration that match its description ... ?

    I'll look into that this evening. It should be at least 240 to prevent skills like lightning whip from actively ignoring it.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Necromancer is not thief. It has a higher health pool and some of its traits require them to be damaged so they can get value out of them. I'm not recognizing it because I don't think it's a sound argument.

    Ok, necromancer dont have acess to all evades in the world and stealth that thief has. But hey I'm a thief therefore my utilities should be overloaded and be like 2 time more powerful than yours just ...because...?

    I haven't been complaining about ranger gs blocks all this time despite playing zerker with a shield ofhand.

    I would be doing so, there is no reason for ranger to be a super ninja blocking all melee and projectiles like its Neo from the Matrix ... especially with a greatsword on a ridiculously low cooldown, just because its ranger it should be a shield stance merged into full counter? Are you serious ?

    Also, necromancer has been underpowered for an incredibly long time.

    ^ Highest quality BS right here.

  • @Odik.4587 said:

    Ok, necromancer dont have acess to all evades in the world and stealth that thief has. But hey I'm a thief therefore my utilities should be overloaded and be like 2 time more powerful than yours just ...because...?

    Almost all of thief evades and their damage out of stealth has been nerfed significantly. Their vigor uptime is taking a 50% hit. Don't ignore that and attempt to use the current state of thief as a balancing metric for how the smokescreen utility effects should be adjusted. They no longer have "all the evades in the world. Backstab coefficients are way down, and leeching damage through SA line is down too.

    I would be doing so, there is no reason for ranger to be a super ninja blocking all melee and projectiles like its Neo from the Matrix ... especially with a greatsword on a ridiculously low cooldown, just because its ranger it should be a shield stance merged into full counter? Are you serious ?

    What?
    That's beside the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was that defensive skills can have different cooldowns on different classes depending on the need. whether the need is met in excess or not is up for debate, but that situation -can- happen, and using "but this class -that has a different rotation:- has this cooldown, so you should have that cooldown too" as an argument doesn't fly.

    Also, necromancer has been underpowered for an incredibly long time.

    ^ Highest quality BS right here.

    Nah. When scourge was overperforming, it got balanced aggressively. Reaper got balanced aggressively. Core necro had no mechanical defense in shroud vs incoming damage vs condi -anything- until death magic got reworked, and even then the benefit given to it was tenuous.
    They've been having it rough for a while. Most classes with mobility dance circles around them.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Mogwai.4015Mogwai.4015 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2020

    Smokescreen definitely needs tuning down, but long cooldown utility skills are not very fun to play with. I'd like to see the skill brought down in the scope of its utility while still remaining on a lower cooldown. Something like how Ring of Fire and Spectral Ring work:

    Ring of Smoke
    -25s CD, 1/2s cast time (same as before)
    -5-6s duration (down 1-2s).
    -Retains its AoE smoke field component.
    -Retains its projectile destruction component.
    -Blinds foes within the radius upon creation, and then blinds foes passing through the ring, 1s ICD (unblockable, unevadable). Perhaps increase the blind duration to 2s.
    -Middle of the ring is still a smoke field, but does NOT pulse blind.

  • @Mogwai.4015 said:
    Smokescreen definitely needs tuning down, but long cooldown utility skills are not very fun to play with. I'd like to see the skill brought down in the scope of its utility while still remaining on a lower cooldown. Something like how Ring of Fire and Spectral Ring work:

    Ring of Smoke
    -25s CD, 1/2s cast time (same as before)
    -5-6s duration (down 1-2s).
    -Retains its AoE smoke field component.
    -Retains its projectile destruction component.
    -Blinds foes within the radius upon creation, and then blinds foes passing through the ring, 1s ICD (unblockable, unevadable). Perhaps increase the blind duration to 2s.
    -Middle of the ring is still a smoke field, but does NOT pulse blind.

    Fine~

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2020

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    Ok, necromancer dont have acess to all evades in the world and stealth that thief has. But hey I'm a thief therefore my utilities should be overloaded and be like 2 time more powerful than yours just ...because...?

    Almost all of thief evades and their damage out of stealth has been nerfed significantly. Their vigor uptime is taking a 50% hit. Don't ignore that and attempt to use the current state of thief as a balancing metric for how the smokescreen utility effects should be adjusted. They no longer have "all the evades in the world. Backstab coefficients are way down, and leeching damage through SA line is down too.

    50% from 40s of perma vigor to 20s of perma vigor, what a big difference ! You ignre that every class getting damage nerfs, not only thief . Lets play a victim some more?

    I would be doing so, there is no reason for ranger to be a super ninja blocking all melee and projectiles like its Neo from the Matrix ... especially with a greatsword on a ridiculously low cooldown, just because its ranger it should be a shield stance merged into full counter? Are you serious ?

    What?
    That's beside the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make was that defensive skills can have different cooldowns on different classes depending on the need. whether the need is met in excess or not is up for debate, but that situation -can- happen, and using "but this class -that has a different rotation:- has this cooldown, so you should have that cooldown too" as an argument doesn't fly.

    X class having absolutely nonsense overloaded skills that does either twice as much as its closest counterpart while have nearly twice lower cd its fine. Different classes - different needs, kappa. Its somehow fine for everyone when its happen with their main. You (thief and all others) = smokescreen. Rangers (well, only SP making tragedy out of it) = GS4 block. Its all cool, its my main, dont touch it :joy:

    Also, necromancer has been underpowered for an incredibly long time.

    ^ Highest quality BS right here.

    Nah. When scourge was overperforming, it got balanced aggressively. Reaper got balanced aggressively. Core necro had no mechanical defense in shroud vs incoming damage vs condi -anything- until death magic got reworked, and even then the benefit given to it was tenuous.
    They've been having it rough for a while. Most classes with mobility dance circles around them.

    And so far as I remember it always been played. From core till PoF. So much underperforming ! Poor underpowered necro class ruling wvw and pvp almost entire PoF existence until they gave scourge a chrono treatment.
    I'm done with you lad, I proposed a change in the way its not overloaded OP as its now, cba to deal with biased thieves, sry.
    Some addition: if after patch its still a problem - nuke it from the orbit, if not - leave it.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2020

    'Once any major wrinkles are ironed out, we’ll settle back into the faster cadence that we mentioned previously as we work toward improving balance across the board.'

    The balance changes as so broad and far reaching it is going to cause major issues all over the place. However the acknowledgment of the need for a high cadence of patch releases is ultimately the answer to smoothing out of balance issues over time. This more than anything anet have commited to in the past gives pvp a bright future in my eyes, thank you anet.

    wouldn't 2 weekly releases be awesome if anet could eventually get there, no stale analysis, quick reaction, gradual balance refinement, and a player base that can relax a bit knowing an issue wo nt sit for months if it's a priority.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2020

    @Odik.4587 said:
    50% from 40s of perma vigor to 20s of perma vigor, what a big difference !

    perma vigor
    20 seconds

    ?

    perma

    ?????

    You ignre that every class getting damage nerfs, not only thief . Lets play a victim some more?

    Take...your own advice? Thief is the only class getting continuous nerf proposals despite getting almost all of their damage sources nuked, including from stealth. Less damaging thief out of stealth means more pressure on thief to escape/avoid retaliation because enemies can no longer be easily dispatched. Yet before the patch even gets out of the gate people are shrieking "nerf stealth nerf steal nerf evade nerf mobility", like oneshot backstab or perma evade is still 100% guaranteed to be a thing.

    X class having absolutely nonsense overloaded skills that does either twice as much as its closest counterpart while have nearly twice lower cd its fine.

    First of all, the CD is getting adjusted to have a higher cooldown than well of darkness , so that's wrong. Stop using the current state of the skill to justify additional nerf proposals. It's already getting changed. That's a strawman argument. I'm not arguing the current CD is fine. I'm arguing that the proposed changes are enough.
    Second, a blind field that destroys projectiles for one of the squishiest classes in the game is neither nonsense nor overloaded. Theres already a few avenues to counterplay it, and it does not obstruct point capture. All it does is make the thief slightly harder to kill for a short duration. With the proposed nerfs itll be even less frequent.

    Third, you're comparing skills to skills again despite saying:

    Different classes - different needs, kappa.

    Yeah.

    Its somehow fine for everyone when its happen with their main.

    I main berserker. I am just aware of how thief gets foisted as this godmode class on forums when people actively bully it in game if they decide to spec for it, and can hardline advise against nerfs for classes I don't main if they're unjustified. It's telling that we're here arguing over a skill that lets thieves have 7 seconds of staying power without necessarily having to use stealth (though they have that option), and the general outrage is the same as if they had just slotted blinding power and gone about their day. Heaven forbid a thief get to contest a point, rite~

    You (thief and all others) = smokescreen. Rangers (well, only SP making tragedy out of it) = GS4 block. Its all cool, its my main, dont touch it :joy:

    See above.

    And so far as I remember it always been played. From core till PoF. So much underperforming ! Poor underpowered necro class ruling wvw and pvp almost entire PoF existence until they gave scourge a chrono treatment.

    I don't care about wvw. That's a different sphere. I care about PvP where it was already underpowered once Arenanet realized it shouldnt be able to condibomb with the same radius as a conquest node, then the "chrono treatment" made it even worse. Reaper has always had counterplay. Necro has always had counterplay.
    Compared to some of the other classes, like Soulbeast, Weaver, Firebrand and Spellbreaker, Scourge was actively balanced the most, followed by thief and mirage. however, unlike thief and mirage, scourge mains didnt find a way to mold their cheese into a different form.

    I'm done with you lad, I proposed a change in the way its not overloaded OP as its now, cba to deal with biased thieves, sry.

    See above. Lol, not a thief main but ok

    Some addition: if after patch its still a problem - nuke it from the orbit, if not - leave it.

    'kay~

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • @Mogwai.4015 said:
    Smokescreen definitely needs tuning down, but long cooldown utility skills are not very fun to play with. I'd like to see the skill brought down in the scope of its utility while still remaining on a lower cooldown. Something like how Ring of Fire and Spectral Ring work:

    Ring of Smoke
    -25s CD, 1/2s cast time (same as before)
    -5-6s duration (down 1-2s).
    -Retains its AoE smoke field component.
    -Retains its projectile destruction component.
    -Blinds foes within the radius upon creation, and then blinds foes passing through the ring, 1s ICD (unblockable, unevadable). Perhaps increase the blind duration to 2s.
    -Middle of the ring is still a smoke field, but does NOT pulse blind.

    This is actually a well thought out solution to tone down Smokescreen.

  • @Odik.4587 said:
    P.S if its really bigger/lasts longer than intended... very nice of Anet...

    Checked this, its not. Compared with choking gas its on par.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why is this suddenly unstuck?

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:
    50% from 40s of perma vigor to 20s of perma vigor, what a big difference !

    perma vigor
    20 seconds

    ?

    perma

    ?????

    You ignre that every class getting damage nerfs, not only thief . Lets play a victim some more?

    Ok. Lets check how biased you are my friend.

    Almost all of thief evades and their damage out of stealth has been nerfed significantly

    Everyone's damage+evade abilities took 50% damage nerfs. Most importantly VAULT was left alone to hit like a truck and keep its evasion. - Playing a victim like they singled out your poor thief.

    Their vigor uptime is taking a 50% hit. Don't ignore that and attempt to use the current state of thief as a balancing metric

    Feline Grace: Reduced vigor duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. The passive ONE SECOND INTERNAL COOLDOWN trait got nerfed out of all vigor sources.. when others have 3 on 10s cd(ofc its only mesmer, others are 5/10 for a reason/s).Was vigor-on-heal nerfed by 50%? Havent seen that. Vigor on steal was nerfed? Havent seen that too.
    So what you ignored the fact that thy would still have perma improved vigor just from acro minor alone and was like "50% VIGOR UPTIME NERF!1111"
    That nonsense about necro came from the scope of 1x1? I have a surprise for you, they werent taken for 1x1's. Think 10 times about it may be?
    I'll never respond to such "unbiased warrior main" ever agan :joy:
    P.S I have seen your comments on mirage having only 1 evade and you are pretty happy about it and think it should stay. Clearly unbiased opinion about something you dont hate with a passion :)

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Ok. Lets check how biased you are my friend.

    Everyone's biased somehow. This is irrelevant. My point here is to prove smokescreen fair, not have strawman arguments about my character with you. People who read my posts are free to make whatever judgment they want about me, lol.

    Everyone's damage+evade abilities took 50% damage nerfs. Most importantly VAULT was left alone to hit like a truck and keep its evasion. - Playing a victim like they singled out your poor thief.

    I never argued the patch notes singled Thief out. I argued the community is singling thief out for additional nerfing in ways that seem intensely geared towards making it unviable.

    I'll never respond to such "unbiased warrior main" ever agan :joy:

    Oh look, goalpost shifting. This is going to get nowhere so let's agree to stop here indeed.

    P.S I have seen your comments on mirage having only 1 evade and you are pretty happy about it and think it should stay. Clearly unbiased opinion about something you dont hate with a passion :)

    You're getting difficult to understand, but:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    sigh.
    I want to be petty and I'll continue being petty later but, putting that aside:

    But mirrors grant evade to mes, and some of their utilities outright create these. I think being forced to tag mirrors to cover the rest of their evade sounds suitable.

    If it's too much though, at least try adding easier access to vigor to bridge the gap before going the emergency revert route.

    You're wrong about that last part. As a zerker main, Mirages counter me like you guys think thief counters you (even though even that is up for debate.)
    Still here trying to get the class shipped in a way thats not-deleted while being not obnoxious.

    No big though. We will see how everything looks in four days~

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Vault was nerfed by 19%.

    • Vault: Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6

    I mean it’s not like it won’t hit hard but...it kind of costs a lot of initiative and is pretty evadeable/blockable/interruptible.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:
    Vault was nerfed by 19%.

    • Vault: Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6

    I mean it’s not like it won’t hit hard but...it kind of costs a lot of initiative and is pretty evadeable/blockable/interruptible.

    But all that = remained left alone in a mesmer eyes just like how they're convinced clear on SUCCESSFULL dodge means they have infinite clears any time they want as a thief is ALWAYS evading when they dodge. Or how they can spam skills infinitely with their infinite resources that never run out lol.
    U can point out a 1000 counter measures to any give thief skill to them and they'll just let it roll over they're head and pretend it's not important than spout off all the things the skills counter while calling it broken with no counter play lol
    Ur better of not even arguing with them and let them vent out their one sided bias anger whether they make sense or not lol.
    Bottom line is they want the class and more importantly the class that counters them unviable full stop, not like it's not obvious.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    Everyone blames anet for nerfing skills/traits to the point their not chosen afterwards and complains about half of the skills/traits on every class being unviable yet the community is the first to ask for more nerfs before the original nerfs have even gone through with obvious intentions to make the slill/trait unviable lol it's like u complain about thing u cause lol. I gues it's also the teams fault for listening and actually implementing the changes.
    Smoke screen at 45 sec already have most thiefs moving on from the skill and still more want it nerfed harder so its thrown into the already large pit of unused skilks/traits and utilities. Why not see how it was at 35 than if cd needed increase run it at 40 and so on instead of just nuking it. Why?
    Cuz I don't like it delete it mentality that's spread throughout this community.
    I say to the team nerf it more and continue listening to these players, its ur game to ruin :)

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Everyone blames anet for nerfing skills/traits to the point their not chosen afterwards and complains about half of the skills/traits on every class being unviable yet the community is the first to ask for more nerfs before the original nerfs have even gone through with obvious intentions to make the slill/trait unviable lol it's like u complain about thing u cause lol. I gues it's also the teams fault for listening and actually implementing the changes.
    Smoke screen at 45 sec already have most thiefs moving on from the skill and still more want it nerfed harder so its thrown into the already large pit of unused skilks/traits and utilities. Why not see how it was at 35 than if cd needed increase run it at 40 and so on instead of just nuking it. Why?
    Cuz I don't like it delete it mentality that's spread throughout this community.
    I say to the team nerf it more and continue listening to these players, its ur game to ruin :)

    Funny statement considering your posts about Soulbeast and Mirage. You don't like the delete mentality in this forum? Seems as long as it is not Thief or Warrior then deleting skills or even whole elites from the game is not your problem. Hypocrisies at its best ones again.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Everyone blames anet for nerfing skills/traits to the point their not chosen afterwards and complains about half of the skills/traits on every class being unviable yet the community is the first to ask for more nerfs before the original nerfs have even gone through with obvious intentions to make the slill/trait unviable lol it's like u complain about thing u cause lol. I gues it's also the teams fault for listening and actually implementing the changes.
    Smoke screen at 45 sec already have most thiefs moving on from the skill and still more want it nerfed harder so its thrown into the already large pit of unused skilks/traits and utilities. Why not see how it was at 35 than if cd needed increase run it at 40 and so on instead of just nuking it. Why?
    Cuz I don't like it delete it mentality that's spread throughout this community.
    I say to the team nerf it more and continue listening to these players, its ur game to ruin :)

    Funny statement considering your posts about Soulbeast and Mirage. You don't like the delete mentality in this forum? Seems as long as it is not Thief or Warrior then deleting skills and whole elites from the game is not your problem. Hypocrisies at its best ones again.

    Ummm cuz I think the one pet in combat is a fair trade off? And I have no issues with mirage it's how the players that play it conduct themselves on the forums that I have issues with. Every single thread that had to do with nerfing or improving a skill on any class other then theirs has them rallying in it asking for nerfs of why the skills etc is fine and doesn't need love even tho they don't even play or like the class, why? Is no one but mesmers allowed to post about improvements to their class? Are every class skill/traits and utilities fine except for mesmers? Their always the first to want another class gutted especially if it's a thief post and gets old.
    U can bring up my past post agreeing with some changes anets brought about and a few outliers here and there but 90% of my post are defending classes vs bias hyperbole. I dont make it a point to join every mesmer thread where their asking for improvements or in any type of discussion to simply tell the players their class is fine and op and needs nerfs like some others on here.
    Man vendetta's against classes are real and so rampant in this community.
    It's no real surprise by ur post pic alone I knew it be u bravan as ur only one of maybe 15 posters left even posting in pvp forums, definitely no surprise this games community is tanking so fast lmao.
    Unfortunately this community as small as it is drives it's own players away.
    For the record I doubt very many players actually think the mirage losing a dodge was called for but don't voice it cuz all the times they've seen mesmers players asking for gutting nerfs to their class so its hard to throw sympathy towards the mesmer players.
    Yeah if anet wanted to tone down mirages high evasiveness there are better ways that don't out right cripple the class but few will stand up to the change due to the fact it's usually a mesmer player that's first to ask for their class to be gutted.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    This is honestly just getting silly at this point.
    Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happen
    Adapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

    Totally agree, adapt like players who whine on mesmer every patch (and who aren't salty at all), who end to -50% output gut and trait removal on the spec they want to easy win against.
    Seems spamming nerf thread on PvP forum work better than class representation.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    This is honestly just getting silly at this point.
    Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happen
    Adapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

    Totally agree, adapt like players who whine on mesmer every patch (and who aren't salty at all), who end to -50% output gut and trait removal on the spec they want to easy win against.
    Seems spamming nerf thread on PvP forum work better than class representation.

    I dont even care at this point despite the thief nerfs its still going hard counter mesmers and several other professions by a mile and it will take far more nerfs than this to undo that. Eventually people will realize they are being bais while calling others bais.

    When non thief mains start calling out certain complainers (which is already happening) in large enough numbers the complainers will either stop ore cry harder but be ignored as they are out weighted by the other portions of the community who see it for what it really is. Hating 1 profession cause it hard counters what you like to play.

    Again the patch is likely days away if you play a build that hard carries and you have not started to practice without the tools that are being either heavily nerfed or removed thats a personal problem. Ive been playing without foot in the grave and trying not to use doom while stunned etc. for a while now even in my off meta fun builds that actually did use/ abuse those things. IF you cant learn to adapt its no ones fault but your own. Im not going to demand someone else be nerfed more because im unahppy with some changes my build or main profession got while trying to compare apples to oranges to determine how much more someone else should be nerfed.

    Learn to play without IH or only using 1 dodge or dont and just get erased.... Im tired of goign back and forth with unreasonable people who are are unhappy and point the finger at anyone who seems remotely happy with their main professions even if they are being nerfed. The number of post some obvious mesmer and ranger/soul beast players have made since the notes were released is insane.

    Reality is most of the complaints at this point are people who are unhappy and dont want anyone else to be more happy than they are with other builds / professions and so they are demanding more nerfs against specific things.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Everyone blames anet for nerfing skills/traits to the point their not chosen afterwards and complains about half of the skills/traits on every class being unviable yet the community is the first to ask for more nerfs before the original nerfs have even gone through with obvious intentions to make the slill/trait unviable lol it's like u complain about thing u cause lol. I gues it's also the teams fault for listening and actually implementing the changes.
    Smoke screen at 45 sec already have most thiefs moving on from the skill and still more want it nerfed harder so its thrown into the already large pit of unused skilks/traits and utilities. Why not see how it was at 35 than if cd needed increase run it at 40 and so on instead of just nuking it. Why?
    Cuz I don't like it delete it mentality that's spread throughout this community.
    I say to the team nerf it more and continue listening to these players, its ur game to ruin :)

    Funny statement considering your posts about Soulbeast and Mirage. You don't like the delete mentality in this forum? Seems as long as it is not Thief or Warrior then deleting skills and whole elites from the game is not your problem. Hypocrisies at its best ones again.

    Ummm cuz I think the one pet in combat is a fair trade off? And I have no issues with mirage it's how the players that play it conduct themselves on the forums that I have issues with. Every single thread that had to do with nerfing or improving a skill on any class other then theirs has them rallying in it asking for nerfs of why the skills etc is fine and doesn't need love even tho they don't even play or like the class, why? Is no one but mesmers allowed to post about improvements to their class? Are every class skill/traits and utilities fine except for mesmers? Their always the first to want another class gutted especially if it's a thief post and gets old.
    U can bring up my past post agreeing with some changes anets brought about and a few outliers here and there but 90% of my post are defending classes vs bias hyperbole. I dont make it a point to join every mesmer thread where their asking for improvements or in any type of discussion to simply tell the players their class is fine and op and needs nerfs like some others on here.
    Man vendetta's against classes are real and so rampant in this community.
    It's no real surprise by ur post pic alone I knew it be u bravan as ur only one of maybe 15 posters left even posting in pvp forums, definitely no surprise this games community is tanking so fast lmao.
    Unfortunately this community as small as it is drives it's own players away.
    For the record I doubt very many players actually think the mirage losing a dodge was called for but don't voice it cuz all the times they've seen mesmers players asking for gutting nerfs to their class so its hard to throw sympathy towards the mesmer players.
    Yeah if anet wanted to tone down mirages high evasiveness there are better ways that don't out right cripple the class but few will stand up to the change due to the fact it's usually a mesmer player that's first to ask for their class to be gutted.

    Actually i see less Mesmer mains crying about other classes in forum and i see no other class getting so much unfair and biased nerf suggstions than Mesmer (Thief has same issue but on way lower lvl). Means i have no clue what triggers you.

    Losing a pet on Soulbeast is literally deleting skills (something you here say you don't like as balance move in general, what i even would agree to) and in terms of Soulbeast deleting here means not only by making it not worth taking from too high cd, it is in fact deleting skills from the elite. This trade off then doesn't even solve the real broken issues like the pet revive from merging (what should not exist in the first place because it deletes the skill ceiling from the Ranger class of caring for the pet. Soulbeast gets less punished for pet misplays than other Ranger specs). This loss in skill ceiling doesn't get compensated by the deletion of one pet. Just as deleting pet swap as mechanical feature you have to manage as player will also not increase the skill ceiling or floor. Anyway the point is, you don't want the deletion of skills on some specs but vote for it on others. Either you want a balance that just brings stuff more in line to each other without making it unusable or deleted or not. How different you argue depending on what class you talk about is irritating and hypocrite.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    This is honestly just getting silly at this point.
    Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happen
    Adapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

    Totally agree, adapt like players who whine on mesmer every patch (and who aren't salty at all), who end to -50% output gut and trait removal on the spec they want to easy win against.
    Seems spamming nerf thread on PvP forum work better than class representation.

    I dont even care at this point despite the thief nerfs its still going hard counter mesmers and several other professions by a mile and it will take far more nerfs than this to undo that. Eventually people will realize they are being bais while calling others bais.

    When non thief mains start calling out certain complainers (which is already happening) in large enough numbers the complainers will either stop ore cry harder but be ignored as they are out weighted by the other portions of the community who see it for what it really is. Hating 1 profession cause it hard counters what you like to play.

    Again the patch is likely days away if you play a build that hard carries and you have not started to practice without the tools that are being either heavily nerfed or removed thats a personal problem. Ive been playing without foot in the grave and trying not to use doom while stunned etc. for a while now even in my off meta fun builds that actually did use/ abuse those things. IF you cant learn to adapt its no ones fault but your own. Im not going to demand someone else be nerfed more because im unahppy with some changes my build or main profession got while trying to compare apples to oranges to determine how much more someone else should be nerfed.

    Learn to play without IH or only using 1 dodge or dont and just get erased.... Im tired of goign back and forth with unreasonable people who are are unhappy and point the finger at anyone who seems remotely happy with their main professions even if they are being nerfed. The number of post some obvious mesmer and ranger/soul beast players have made since the notes were released is insane.

    Reality is most of the complaints at this point are people who are unhappy and dont want anyone else to be more happy than they are with other builds / professions and so they are demanding more nerfs against specific things.

    I'd give u a standing ovation and clap if I could right now lol.
    Ur a necro main which thief counters yet this post, maybe a few will follow suit but I doubt it.
    My thought is don't we want people to play along side with? Is increased bot population and lower player population what we want?
    Isn't the best scenario being the population increasing in pvp modes?
    1- if u really feel like a skills broken or overperforming than ask for shaves to it not the gutting of it and ask the team to adjust from there that way both parties are happy cuz the skill still remains useable.

    2- remember to look to ur class before calling a class or skill op and think if it's a situation where it's a natural counter to ur class or maybe something that ur class is missing or needs love on. Sometimes it's a issue with ur class and not that the other class is OP.

    3- discuss in ur class threads different strategies that have been successful vs problem builds and also bring up concerns of what ur class is lacking which could result in some skills seeming OP.

    Don't join threads of classes u hate and dont even play to tell the players that actually play the class and use the skills in question that the skills are fine and need no changes as how would u kno not even playing the class or much? Lol

    Dont go out of ur way to try and get a class destroyed out of spite cuz its ur hard counter cuz that won't help u and certainly won't help the game in any way.
    If u dont play the class or have little experience on using it who are u to say what skills are fine and what ones aren't? Save that for the classes u actually play.
    Anyway could go on but it's no surprise the pvp forum has basically the same few posters left these days and gets lower each year. Its unfortunate that there's very little real discussions going on these days past certain classes asking for their counters to be deleted.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I didnt bother to read both ur reply's to be honest guys cuz I could care less about what's in them and I'm sure I have an idea anyway cuz it's always the same round and round. Nerfs to my class are unfair and needs buffs and gut my hard counters their op and so forth on and on.
    Whatever happens in patch and in future patches happens and I'm gonna focus on my own few classes and how to improve on them and not on trying to spitefully ruin any spec I have troubles with. As I said 90% or more of my post are defending one of my classes from silly bias crys and not me trying to get classes I don't play nuked just cuz I don't like them.
    Soulbeast is my 3rd most played class still more playtime than warrior and I agreed with one pet trade off and my reasons why but I did not spam ranger threads or balance threads to say so. I also don't think mirage should have lost a dodge but due to the spite fullness of some mesmer players I could care less but still aside from jokes don't spam their threads or balance threads spamming for their gutting. Gotten ridiculous from a few on here the amount they do so.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    This is honestly just getting silly at this point.
    Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happen
    Adapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

    Totally agree, adapt like players who whine on mesmer every patch (and who aren't salty at all), who end to -50% output gut and trait removal on the spec they want to easy win against.
    Seems spamming nerf thread on PvP forum work better than class representation.

    I dont even care at this point despite the thief nerfs its still going hard counter mesmers and several other professions by a mile and it will take far more nerfs than this to undo that. Eventually people will realize they are being bais while calling others bais.

    When non thief mains start calling out certain complainers (which is already happening) in large enough numbers the complainers will either stop ore cry harder but be ignored as they are out weighted by the other portions of the community who see it for what it really is. Hating 1 profession cause it hard counters what you like to play.

    Again the patch is likely days away if you play a build that hard carries and you have not started to practice without the tools that are being either heavily nerfed or removed thats a personal problem. Ive been playing without foot in the grave and trying not to use doom while stunned etc. for a while now even in my off meta fun builds that actually did use/ abuse those things. IF you cant learn to adapt its no ones fault but your own. Im not going to demand someone else be nerfed more because im unahppy with some changes my build or main profession got while trying to compare apples to oranges to determine how much more someone else should be nerfed.

    Learn to play without IH or only using 1 dodge or dont and just get erased.... Im tired of goign back and forth with unreasonable people who are are unhappy and point the finger at anyone who seems remotely happy with their main professions even if they are being nerfed. The number of post some obvious mesmer and ranger/soul beast players have made since the notes were released is insane.

    Reality is most of the complaints at this point are people who are unhappy and dont want anyone else to be more happy than they are with other builds / professions and so they are demanding more nerfs against specific things.

    I'd give u a standing ovation and clap if I could right now lol.
    Ur a necro main which thief counters yet this post, maybe a few will follow suit but I doubt it.
    My thought is don't we want people to play along side with? Is increased bot population and lower player population what we want?
    Isn't the best scenario being the population increasing in pvp modes?

    Because i accept that thief counters necro I doubt this will ever change and maybe it shouldnt. The only thing i dislike is stealth but i dislike it in general not just because thief just the base mechanic of stealth is well we already know... in needs of something..... and that applies to more that just thief haha... But really... so many things and builds counter necro to this day that its hard for me to really be upset with any one build / skill/ or profession for specifically eating necro because most of them have something that can (when used properly) shuts necro down pretty easily. I just want to be able to play necro without it being a boon balance tool or being limited and held to thematics and core game values (like being slow, having low mobility, slowing your foes instead of speeding yourself up ,etc) while the game continued to progress in a way makes those values more and more invalid. (which is why im happy anet is slowing everything down a bit personally)

    1- if u really feel like a skills broken or overperforming than ask for shaves to it not the gutting of it and ask the team to adjust from there that way both parties are happy cuz the skill still remains useable.

    This is fair and im not against it but there is a difference between saying something is over performing and just pointing at random things for execution is just annoying to see. Just in the thief example players went from saying the issue was pistolwhip to saying stealth will be an issue to saying leeching venoms was the issue to saying smokescreen was the issue. It starts to look more like counter targeting especially when the main poster of such things is suspected / known of being a mesmer main. IT really looks like directly targeting your hard counter at that point.

    2- remember to look to ur class before calling a class or skill op and think if it's a situation where it's a natural counter to ur class or maybe something that ur class is missing or needs love on. Sometimes it's a issue with ur class and not that the other class is OP.

    I think this varies from person to person and their perspective. Know im mostly talking about the last bit. For example some people my consider one class is under performing while others might consider the other 8 are over-performing based on where they think the game should be. Based on how anet went at these changes its fair to say that they thought the majority of things were over-performing. Which implies that the underpowered professions or elites were not the problem but the ones that were over-performing or performing extremely well were the problem after all in their eyes. Its a bit subjective.

    3- discuss in ur class threads different strategies that have been successful vs problem builds and also bring up concerns of what ur class is lacking which could result in some skills seeming OP.

    Very possible but the issue here is that people wont follow your next statement which makes this one dodgy if that makes any sense.

    Don't join threads of classes u hate and dont even play to tell the players that actually play the class and use the skills in question that the skills are fine and need no changes as how would u kno not even playing the class or much? Lol

    Unfortunately this is not a reasonable request because no one will not do this from time to time. For example I generally dont go looking into the thief thread or mesmer threads I generally stick to most recent discussions and if i see a interesting title i take a look and some times leave my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to tell some one they can or cannot disagree with a certain thing is not a feasible or reasonable request to make.

    Most people who communicate reasonably have played all or the majority of the professions enough to know how the skills work and what the skills do. While we dont have to agree if one skill is equal in power to another it does not mean just because i dont main a mesmer for example that i dont know how arcane thievery works and what it can do at its best and worst case situations. Generally playing all other professions from time to time is the quickest way to understand the very basics at the very least and is something every player should do from time to time to boost their skills even if you dont play it at the highest level. (which most people wont anyways)

    It should be said though that one should be careful how they word things when they play something for the first time as sometimes its obvious by how they call out skills being op. Like for example purposes when someone thought well of power on necro pulsed stab and that necro players had no right to say they didnt have stability in their builds when in reality it does not do that.

    Its also important to know how other people feel about certain things because as a main of any profession its hard to understand why people might be frustrated with your build or profession while playing that build or profession. If no one ever expressed their experience from different perspectives there would be no debate or point to really making the post in general. So its a good thing that mesmers speak on how they feel a but thief but at some point they have to understand its just a hard counter and its one of the few it has an they just need to accept it. Hard counters are needed in this game or one profession might reach a point where it just dominates over the majority of everything. We saw how firebrand picked up so much strength after anet removed scourge from solo q pvp by making it too risky to use because there was nothing for a while that could stop them from omega boon-ing.

    Alot of the recent post though are just blunt targeting attempts to ruin specific professions. OR thats how it really looks once you start to read into them from the people who started those threads.

    Dont go out of ur way to try and get a class destroyed out of spite cuz its ur hard counter cuz that won't help u and certainly won't help the game in any way.

    Facts i agree with this and i dont personally go around making nerf x or y threads myself.

    If u dont play the class or have little experience on using it who are u to say what skills are fine and what ones aren't? Save that for the classes u actually play.

    Again exp does not just come from playing a class but also fighting against it this is still important data and information to consider and for that reason i dont think its fair to say someone cant talk about a profession within reason just because they dont main or are not a pro with it. Its information certainly worth consideration. It can be hard to see how oppressive your build or profession may be if its all you play. I am not immune to this with necro it can be or rather still is hard for me to see why people say chill is still strong for example when im use to seeing people just jump/port/dash at me and ignore it all the time when i try to use it to keep them away.

    Anyway could go on but it's no surprise the pvp forum has basically the same few posters left these days and gets lower each year. Its unfortunate that there's very little real discussions going on these days past certain classes asking for their counters to be deleted.

    This is true in all honestly we all just want the things we love to be relevant which is fair.... for some people that can be just 1 profession for others its multiple professions.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    This is honestly just getting silly at this point.
    Whats done is done at this point the patch is likely days away no point in going back and forth now just let it happen
    Adapt or get erased and be salty till you learn to adapt.

    Totally agree, adapt like players who whine on mesmer every patch (and who aren't salty at all), who end to -50% output gut and trait removal on the spec they want to easy win against.
    Seems spamming nerf thread on PvP forum work better than class representation.

    I dont even care at this point despite the thief nerfs its still going hard counter mesmers and several other professions by a mile and it will take far more nerfs than this to undo that. Eventually people will realize they are being bais while calling others bais.

    When non thief mains start calling out certain complainers (which is already happening) in large enough numbers the complainers will either stop ore cry harder but be ignored as they are out weighted by the other portions of the community who see it for what it really is. Hating 1 profession cause it hard counters what you like to play.

    Again the patch is likely days away if you play a build that hard carries and you have not started to practice without the tools that are being either heavily nerfed or removed thats a personal problem. Ive been playing without foot in the grave and trying not to use doom while stunned etc. for a while now even in my off meta fun builds that actually did use/ abuse those things. IF you cant learn to adapt its no ones fault but your own. Im not going to demand someone else be nerfed more because im unahppy with some changes my build or main profession got while trying to compare apples to oranges to determine how much more someone else should be nerfed.

    Learn to play without IH or only using 1 dodge or dont and just get erased.... Im tired of goign back and forth with unreasonable people who are are unhappy and point the finger at anyone who seems remotely happy with their main professions even if they are being nerfed. The number of post some obvious mesmer and ranger/soul beast players have made since the notes were released is insane.

    Reality is most of the complaints at this point are people who are unhappy and dont want anyone else to be more happy than they are with other builds / professions and so they are demanding more nerfs against specific things.

    I'd give u a standing ovation and clap if I could right now lol.
    Ur a necro main which thief counters yet this post, maybe a few will follow suit but I doubt it.
    My thought is don't we want people to play along side with? Is increased bot population and lower player population what we want?
    Isn't the best scenario being the population increasing in pvp modes?

    Because i accept that thief counters necro I doubt this will ever change and maybe it shouldnt. The only thing i dislike is stealth but i dislike it in general not just because thief just the base mechanic of stealth is well we already know... in needs of something..... and that applies to more that just thief haha... But really... so many things and builds counter necro to this day that its hard for me to really be upset with any one build / skill/ or profession for specifically eating necro because most of them have something that can (when used properly) shuts necro down pretty easily. I just want to be able to play necro without it being a boon balance tool or being limited and held to thematics and core game values (like being slow, having low mobility, slowing your foes instead of speeding yourself up ,etc) while the game continued to progress in a way makes those values more and more invalid. (which is why im happy anet is slowing everything down a bit personally)

    1- if u really feel like a skills broken or overperforming than ask for shaves to it not the gutting of it and ask the team to adjust from there that way both parties are happy cuz the skill still remains useable.

    This is fair and im not against it but there is a difference between saying something is over performing and just pointing at random things for execution is just annoying to see. Just in the thief example players went from saying the issue was pistolwhip to saying stealth will be an issue to saying leeching venoms was the issue to saying smokescreen was the issue. It starts to look more like counter targeting especially when the main poster of such things is suspected / known of being a mesmer main. IT really looks like directly targeting your hard counter at that point.

    2- remember to look to ur class before calling a class or skill op and think if it's a situation where it's a natural counter to ur class or maybe something that ur class is missing or needs love on. Sometimes it's a issue with ur class and not that the other class is OP.

    I think this varies from person to person and their perspective. Know im mostly talking about the last bit. For example some people my consider one class is under performing while others might consider the other 8 are over-performing based on where they think the game should be. Based on how anet went at these changes its fair to say that they thought the majority of things were over-performing. Which implies that the underpowered professions or elites were not the problem but the ones that were over-performing or performing extremely well were the problem after all in their eyes. Its a bit subjective.

    3- discuss in ur class threads different strategies that have been successful vs problem builds and also bring up concerns of what ur class is lacking which could result in some skills seeming OP.

    Very possible but the issue here is that people wont follow your next statement which makes this one dodgy if that makes any sense.

    Don't join threads of classes u hate and dont even play to tell the players that actually play the class and use the skills in question that the skills are fine and need no changes as how would u kno not even playing the class or much? Lol

    Unfortunately this is not a reasonable request because no one will not do this from time to time. For example I generally dont go looking into the thief thread or mesmer threads I generally stick to most recent discussions and if i see a interesting title i take a look and some times leave my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to tell some one they can or cannot disagree with a certain thing is not a feasible or reasonable request to make.

    Most people who communicate reasonably have played all or the majority of the professions enough to know how the skills work and what the skills do. While we dont have to agree if one skill is equal in power to another it does not mean just because i dont main a mesmer for example that i dont know how arcane thievery works and what it can do at its best and worst case situations. Generally playing all other professions from time to time is the quickest way to understand the very basics at the very least and is something every player should do from time to time to boost their skills even if you dont play it at the highest level. (which most people wont anyways)

    It should be said though that one should be careful how they word things when they play something for the first time as sometimes its obvious by how they call out skills being op. Like for example purposes when someone thought well of power on necro pulsed stab and that necro players had no right to say they didnt have stability in their builds when in reality it does not do that.

    Its also important to know how other people feel about certain things because as a main of any profession its hard to understand why people might be frustrated with your build or profession while playing that build or profession. If no one ever expressed their experience from different perspectives there would be no debate or point to really making the post in general. So its a good thing that mesmers speak on how they feel a but thief but at some point they have to understand its just a hard counter and its one of the few it has an they just need to accept it. Hard counters are needed in this game or one profession might reach a point where it just dominates over the majority of everything. We saw how firebrand picked up so much strength after anet removed scourge from solo q pvp by making it too risky to use because there was nothing for a while that could stop them from omega boon-ing.

    Alot of the recent post though are just blunt targeting attempts to ruin specific professions. OR thats how it really looks once you start to read into them from the people who started those threads.

    Dont go out of ur way to try and get a class destroyed out of spite cuz its ur hard counter cuz that won't help u and certainly won't help the game in any way.

    Facts i agree with this and i dont personally go around making nerf x or y threads myself.

    If u dont play the class or have little experience on using it who are u to say what skills are fine and what ones aren't? Save that for the classes u actually play.

    Again exp does not just come from playing a class but also fighting against it this is still important data and information to consider and for that reason i dont think its fair to say someone cant talk about a profession within reason just because they dont main or are not a pro with it. Its information certainly worth consideration. It can be hard to see how oppressive your build or profession may be if its all you play. I am not immune to this with necro it can be or rather still is hard for me to see why people say chill is still strong for example when im use to seeing people just jump/port/dash at me and ignore it all the time when i try to use it to keep them away.

    Anyway could go on but it's no surprise the pvp forum has basically the same few posters left these days and gets lower each year. Its unfortunate that there's very little real discussions going on these days past certain classes asking for their counters to be deleted.

    This is true in all honestly we all just want the things we love to be relevant which is fair.... for some people that can be just 1 profession for others its multiple professions.

    Another factor is the specific build one might be running getting countered by another build I fear spawns a lot of op threads as well as simply being out played.
    For example the other night in arena a core necro was farming a few players and me a few timed while I was running spellbreaker. I even tried shake it off, featherfoot and heal signet and they destroyed me each time. Is necro op? No it's not they were just a way better player than me lol I've destroyed many core necro's in conquest and in arena but this son of a ...... was good and between fears and condis made easy work of me lol. I know for a fact it was a skill disparity as I've never I'm well aware a warrior should beat a necro in a lot of cases lol
    Thst was my wn get gud issue.
    In my previous post I was more trying to say that if a bunch of players find a skill clunky or of little use don't as a non player of that class try and tell them otherwise. U are right sometimes when fighting another player u can get a good idea when a skill is over performing when facing it especially if uve thought on its counters and if there is non or to few etc.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Yes Soulbeast can be played same as core Ranger when ignoring merging completely. That is no problem, as long as Anet makes sure, that a Soulbeast that ignores merging and plays like a core Ranger is weaker than a core Ranger. That is all that is needed to make it a trade off.

    In theory, I agree it is possible for an elite spec to be balanced in this way, but it would be difficult.

    Some elite mechanics were/are so powerful that they would be more powerful than a core spec even if the elite traitline had no other traits at all. Eg. Photon forge, even in its current nerfed + future nerfed form, would probably be worth playing even if Holosmith had no other elite traits. Engineer gaining what is effectively a free extra utility skill is such an upgrade for a class that so constrained by its ability to only slot 3 utility skills. (engi has no weapon swap, remember, so each utility constitutes a larger % of its damage or defense).

    So how do you balance that?

    • make the F5 toolbelt skill that holosmith loses be extremely powerful to compensate? Maybe. It'd be weird though, effectively having two elite skills on core engi.
    • make core triple-traitline synergy so strong that it is a huge loss to drop a single core line for an elite one. It's hard to create this kind of triple-traitline synergy. I can't think of any examples that currently exist that are so much stronger than what the elite specs bring to the table. I imagine this is tricky for the devs and the triple-line synergy needs to be specifically designed, thus forcing fairly narrow builds.
    • nerf the elite mechanic itself to compensate for the additional flexibility offered by having the option to activate the elite mechanic.

    I use Holo as an example here because I'm most familiar with Engi, but this applies to other elite specs that add optional functionality to a core spec (eg. Tempest, Soulbeast), rather than replace functionality from a core spec (eg. Reaper, DH).

    Meh. I guess we'll see how it shakes out after the big balance patch.

  • There is no place for rally in pvp. It results in black and white teamfights and it pushes already good classes and their roles to even be able to rezz which kills idea of unique roles. Revenant have good mobility on +1 and great cleave potential why you think its fair to give them ability to rezz aswell. Rally is killing depth of downed state because having kill and rezz happen in same time pushes idea of cleave too much and if you look at meta ull get my point. Aswell condis which should deal dmg over time (balanced state of condis) will always be outperformed by power builds which brings that utility to cleave faster and push rezz. If we want balanced way of condi builds than it will be role for rezz control and pressure over time while power will have role to cleave. Right now power builds are having all tools which is one of many reasons why rally should be deleted from pvp. There is no reward for downing players aswell and removing rally would win some time for your team so it won t feel like downing means nothing (you still can selfrez from downed with skill 4).

  • I agree with you. Rally has nothing got to do with skillful playing. It hasnt anything got to do with playing at all. Its more a kind of a lottery winning that favours the team which is already in advantage as its got the first stomp. Theres a poll here in the forum about rally but people werent much interested yet

  • @hotte in space.2158 said:

    I agree with you. Rally has nothing got to do with skillful playing. It hasnt anything got to do with playing at all. Its more a kind of a lottery winning that favours the team which is already in advantage as its got the first stomp. Theres a poll here in the forum about rally but people werent much interested yet

    Yes i also made discussion on removing rally from pvp and keeping downed state with rezz and stomp mechanics. Rally is carrying this meta and nobody see that because it isn t as obvious as some op skills. But if you see revs and thiefs having strong cleave and mobility thats where rally shines and push already great classes to even be able to rezz with cleave.

  • @CroTiger.7819 said:
    Yes i also made discussion on removing rally from pvp and keeping downed state with rezz and stomp mechanics. Rally is carrying this meta and nobody see that because it isn t as obvious as some op skills. But if you see revs and thiefs having strong cleave and mobility thats where rally shines and push already great classes to even be able to rezz with cleave.

    I guess its not exaggerated to say that 10% of all matches get decided by rally. That actually doesnt even fit to anets philosophy, as for years now devs nerfed passives to make PvP more skillful, but lucky-punch-rally remains untouched. Its a lack of consequence here because : more skillful = no rally

  • @hotte in space.2158 said:

    I guess its not exaggerated to say that 10% of all matches get decided by rally. That actually doesnt even fit to anets philosophy, as for years now devs nerfed passives to make PvP more skillful, but lucky-punch-rally remains untouched. Its a lack of consequence here because : more skillful = no rally

    Yes 10% for sure and i would say even more like 20-30% of matches got carried by rally. Yes its lack of consequence because its invisible part of meta. Meta builds either have good cleave or they are not meta just because of rally and how important it is. Cleave would still be powerfull but it won t overperform if rally is deleted and won t be needed in build.