Smokescreen might be the single most broken ability in the game — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Smokescreen might be the single most broken ability in the game

Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭
edited February 12, 2020 in PVP

Its actually insane how much value this skill has.
It's pretty close to a 7 second invuln on a 25s CD.

If you fight a thief and they drop this, you can literally do nothing.
Fight inside? Literally every one of you skills miss cause of UNBLOCKABLE blind pulses on a 1s interval.
Pressure from the outside? JK destroys projectiles.
Potentially even for your entire team, for those res and cleave situations ....cause a 480 diameter seems reasonable.

A CD increase won't cut it for this skill. Not even to 45s as the latest update suggested (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97627/balance-update-update-pvp)

<13

Comments

  • It definitely good but like I had a match against a perma stealth dp thief with this and he obviously had less 1v1 potential outside of backstab so I would just make him stealth decap node while he perma stealthed(about 15ish secs) which he cannot drop like a de can but just DJing. Guess what I just rotated to mid 1 shot their ele, without stealth btw and rotated back. That 15 secs of useless because he thought he was invincible becuz of this. It has counter play and lets be honest it’s not true invulnerability it’s just kind of a really huge area since the rework, possibly over worked with too much blind but can it get kills for u? No, but it can be super good in down state battles other than that it’s just a super op blind field for thiefs

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    It definitely good but like I had a match against a perma stealth dp thief with this and he obviously had less 1v1 potential outside of backstab so I would just make him stealth decap node while he perma stealthed(about 15ish secs) which he cannot drop like a de can but just DJing. Guess what I just rotated to mid 1 shot their ele, without stealth btw and rotated back. That 15 secs of useless because he thought he was invincible becuz of this. It has counter play and lets be honest it’s not true invulnerability it’s just kind of a really huge area since the rework, possibly over worked with too much blind but can it get kills for u? No, but it can be super good in down state battles other than that it’s just a super op blind field for thiefs

    Please do enlighten me, what counterplay does a skill that perma blinds when in melee and destroys projectiles when not have?
    Other than "just leave lul"?

  • @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    It definitely good but like I had a match against a perma stealth dp thief with this and he obviously had less 1v1 potential outside of backstab so I would just make him stealth decap node while he perma stealthed(about 15ish secs) which he cannot drop like a de can but just DJing. Guess what I just rotated to mid 1 shot their ele, without stealth btw and rotated back. That 15 secs of useless because he thought he was invincible becuz of this. It has counter play and lets be honest it’s not true invulnerability it’s just kind of a really huge area since the rework, possibly over worked with too much blind but can it get kills for u? No, but it can be super good in down state battles other than that it’s just a super op blind field for thiefs

    Please do enlighten me, what counterplay does a skill that perma blinds when in melee and destroys projectiles when not have?
    Other than "just leave lul"?

    Well let’s see. If I’m running a normal DrD build and he puts this on node for defense(I already mentioned if he’s off node stealthing your fine, just kite or leave and come back) I can just stand inside and dodge. If he tries to attack me, guess what? I dodged it and I get condition clear and my attack hits btw for more damage than he did since either he missed bs or is autoing for poor damage. Other than that I can use channeled attacks like Mesmer gs that isn’t destroyed by the field or u just do aoe attacks outside the field on any class or just drop Shortbow 4 on thief as it’s unblockable. This skill isn’t an invul, it is slightly over tuned since the rework but cannot do everything for u like pistol whip can hence why it’s not the strongest skill in game. I agree plz nerf but do it poorly for wrong reasons and no one benefits

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 12, 2020

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    It definitely good but like I had a match against a perma stealth dp thief with this and he obviously had less 1v1 potential outside of backstab so I would just make him stealth decap node while he perma stealthed(about 15ish secs) which he cannot drop like a de can but just DJing. Guess what I just rotated to mid 1 shot their ele, without stealth btw and rotated back. That 15 secs of useless because he thought he was invincible becuz of this. It has counter play and lets be honest it’s not true invulnerability it’s just kind of a really huge area since the rework, possibly over worked with too much blind but can it get kills for u? No, but it can be super good in down state battles other than that it’s just a super op blind field for thiefs

    Please do enlighten me, what counterplay does a skill that perma blinds when in melee and destroys projectiles when not have?
    Other than "just leave lul"?

    Well let’s see. If I’m running a normal DrD build and he puts this on node for defense(I already mentioned if he’s off node stealthing your fine, just kite or leave and come back) I can just stand inside and dodge. If he tries to attack me, guess what? I dodged it and I get condition clear and my attack hits btw for more damage than he did since either he missed bs or is autoing for poor damage. Other than that I can use channeled attacks like Mesmer gs that isn’t destroyed by the field or u just do aoe attacks outside the field on any class or just drop Shortbow 4 on thief as it’s unblockable. This skill isn’t an invul, it is slightly over tuned since the rework but cannot do everything for u like pistol whip can hence why it’s not the strongest skill in game. I agree plz nerf but do it poorly for wrong reasons and no one benefits

    Fair enough; ground target AOEs that are either unblockable or non-projectiles do work.
    But those are pretty kitten rare these days, and certain classes would have to hard kitten their build to "check" (not even soft-counter, cause ground target aoes have lots of counterplay themselves; hence why you barely see them in pvp).

    Some specs simply get hard screwed over by this 25s CD / 7s duration skill. Any Rangers, Any dagger / sword eles, any Warriors to name a few.
    And the ones that have some of those options, struggle against thieves on a more general level. Like necros, Revs or Mesmers.

  • @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    It definitely good but like I had a match against a perma stealth dp thief with this and he obviously had less 1v1 potential outside of backstab so I would just make him stealth decap node while he perma stealthed(about 15ish secs) which he cannot drop like a de can but just DJing. Guess what I just rotated to mid 1 shot their ele, without stealth btw and rotated back. That 15 secs of useless because he thought he was invincible becuz of this. It has counter play and lets be honest it’s not true invulnerability it’s just kind of a really huge area since the rework, possibly over worked with too much blind but can it get kills for u? No, but it can be super good in down state battles other than that it’s just a super op blind field for thiefs

    Please do enlighten me, what counterplay does a skill that perma blinds when in melee and destroys projectiles when not have?
    Other than "just leave lul"?

    Well let’s see. If I’m running a normal DrD build and he puts this on node for defense(I already mentioned if he’s off node stealthing your fine, just kite or leave and come back) I can just stand inside and dodge. If he tries to attack me, guess what? I dodged it and I get condition clear and my attack hits btw for more damage than he did since either he missed bs or is autoing for poor damage. Other than that I can use channeled attacks like Mesmer gs that isn’t destroyed by the field or u just do aoe attacks outside the field on any class or just drop Shortbow 4 on thief as it’s unblockable. This skill isn’t an invul, it is slightly over tuned since the rework but cannot do everything for u like pistol whip can hence why it’s not the strongest skill in game. I agree plz nerf but do it poorly for wrong reasons and no one benefits

    Fair enough; ground target AOEs that are either unblockable or non-projectiles do work.
    But those are pretty kitten rare these days, and certain classes would have to hard kitten their build to "check" (not even soft-counter, cause ground target aoes have lots of counterplay themselves; hence why you barely see them in pvp).

    Some specs simply get hard screwed over by this 25s CD / 7s CD skills. Any Rangers, Any dagger / sword eles, any Warriors to name a few.
    And the ones that have some of those options, struggle against thieves on a more general level. Like necros, Revs or Mesmers.

    I have no trouble on ranger, but that because I almost never play lb in this meta(actually solo qd to plat3 on boonbeast which is top ten NA rn) u have highest boon duration in the game on soulbeast and that includes resistance and even if I’m on axe I can just axe 5 which hits faster than the blind. I thik condition revs do fine into this and necro has lots of aoe but are messed up by this in team fights when that’s usually in down state battles, any good necro will probably just kite out of it in team fights and spam unblockable, aoe and even reveal. Perma stealth dp isn’t even great at 1v1ing anyways, so I still don’t get how it’ll mess up a 1v1er on node as they will tank through it or just kite away if they are plussed, though I’ll admit that’s hard in mats becuz u might have 2 of these constantly plussing side noders.
    Pretty much in general from reading this I’m still sensing that the real problem is permanent stealth and great burst as that’s what will cause these problems and 1 shotting will not be great after patch and thief’s are getting decent changes that anet posted recently to help deal with stealth and the shadow arts problems. Also necro, firebrand and possibly condition rev should be good after patch and the trouble they actually have rn from these which is basically damage that they cannot counter cuz of stealth and boon rip will go away, becuz I don’t actually think it’s the blind field that is countering them just the class...

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    @Flumek.9043 said:
    Compare necro blind well to this monster for balance laughs

    Corrosive poison cloud is a more accurate comparison. Blocks projectiles for 8 seconds and perma weakens inside. Still worse than smoke screen because the 6 second self weakness can be a dealbreaker for power builds using it and it does not grant a super OP combo field like smoke screen does.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2020

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    It definitely good but like I had a match against a perma stealth dp thief with this and he obviously had less 1v1 potential outside of backstab so I would just make him stealth decap node while he perma stealthed(about 15ish secs) which he cannot drop like a de can but just DJing. Guess what I just rotated to mid 1 shot their ele, without stealth btw and rotated back. That 15 secs of useless because he thought he was invincible becuz of this. It has counter play and lets be honest it’s not true invulnerability it’s just kind of a really huge area since the rework, possibly over worked with too much blind but can it get kills for u? No, but it can be super good in down state battles other than that it’s just a super op blind field for thiefs

    Please do enlighten me, what counterplay does a skill that perma blinds when in melee and destroys projectiles when not have?
    Other than "just leave lul"?

    Smoke Screen

    You can do evasive attacks into the field and they will hit, you can do resistance, you can use the radius of your aoe to hit them within the field. non projectile attacks such as mesmer gs1 will hit them from the outside. Ranger can barrage, any necro mark or focus skill. Any range non projectile attack, and target aoe (chaos storm) can hit them inside this field. Illusionary Wave can push them out of the field. NO damage comes from the field, the cd will be increased.

    Also, if the air is pulse damage and not considered projectile, it will not be blocked.

    There is more, let me go get my other quote.

    evading attacks are not affected by it, mesmer gs attacks, necro axe and focus attacks, staff attacks (Necro, druid lol), bull charge, gs 3 war, sword 3 rev, rev axe 5, reve mace 2,3, all unblockable attacks, and aoe cast from outside, barrage is not affected (ranger skill).

    Channeled beams, like scepter air ele for example also hit

    Yeah if you stand in the circle and cast without resist....lol

    But it seems there are some ways to deal with it.

    Also, isn't the cooldown getting even more increased with the update?

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    My Daredevil build after the big patch

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    It definitely good but like I had a match against a perma stealth dp thief with this and he obviously had less 1v1 potential outside of backstab so I would just make him stealth decap node while he perma stealthed(about 15ish secs) which he cannot drop like a de can but just DJing. Guess what I just rotated to mid 1 shot their ele, without stealth btw and rotated back. That 15 secs of useless because he thought he was invincible becuz of this. It has counter play and lets be honest it’s not true invulnerability it’s just kind of a really huge area since the rework, possibly over worked with too much blind but can it get kills for u? No, but it can be super good in down state battles other than that it’s just a super op blind field for thiefs

    Please do enlighten me, what counterplay does a skill that perma blinds when in melee and destroys projectiles when not have?
    Other than "just leave lul"?

    Smoke Screen

    You can do evasive attacks into the field and they will hit, you can do resistance, you can use the radius of your aoe to hit them within the field. non projectile attacks such as mesmer gs1 will hit them from the outside. Ranger can barrage, any necro mark or focus skill. Any range non projectile attack, and target aoe (chaos storm) can hit them inside this field. Illusionary Wave can push them out of the field. NO damage comes from the field, the cd will be increased.

    Also, if the air is pulse damage and not considered projectile, it will not be blocked.

    There is more, let me go get my other quote.

    evading attacks are not affected by it, mesmer gs attacks, necro axe and focus attacks, staff attacks (Necro, druid lol), bull charge, gs 3 war, sword 3 rev, rev axe 5, reve mace 2,3, all unblockable attacks, and aoe cast from outside, barrage is not affected (ranger skill).

    Channeled beams, like scepter air ele for example also hit

    Yeah if you stand in the circle and cast without resist....lol

    But it seems there are some ways to deal with it.

    Also, isn't the cooldown getting even more increased with the update?

    to add to this, to land mesmer gs hits.
    gs 1 have to be out of the filed ( free decap )
    gs 2 ( free decap )
    gs 3 ( free decap )
    gs 4 ( free decap ) + gs gets blocked + some of berserker spin damage gets blinded, combined with him naturarly missing its propably 75% dmg gone.
    gs 5 has 450 range, meaning that thief that positions itself at the edge of the smokescreen can not be hit without mesmer entering the field ( then it depends on pulses if it lands or not )
    so mesmer wise, if its 1v1 one way or the other its a free decap.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    At 45 sec skills not worth it. 35 was a good cd for it. Almost double the CD is overkill but I'm not surprised at the teams decision as their more worried about looking good to the community than actually balancing the game.

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    At 45 sec skills not worth it. 35 was a good cd for it. Almost double the CD is overkill

    LOL. We don't have the same definition of almost 😂

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    At 45 sec skills not worth it. 35 was a good cd for it. Almost double the CD is overkill

    LOL. We don't have the same definition of almost 😂

    Think he means from the 25s CD it is now.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    At 45 sec skills not worth it. 35 was a good cd for it. Almost double the CD is overkill

    LOL. We don't have the same definition of almost 😂

    Think he means from the 25s CD it is now.

    Indeed I did.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ele Sand storm is already at 40s i think, and only provides some minor damage in addition to the pulsing blind. It has 1.25s cast time but is 900 range.
    I think 45s is fair.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    It's funny because even after the patch, I'll still be throwing myself into the AoE where the obvious Thief rests at, these are the times where you should ask yourself if having an AoE skill is bad because you have one right in front of you that could be spammed for damage.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    It's funny because even after the patch, I'll still be throwing myself into the AoE where the obvious Thief rests at, these are the times where you should ask yourself if having an AoE skill is bad because you have one right in front of you that could be spammed for damage.

    and the obv thief might just avoid you with ease, becouse field is huge :D
    if you reveal thief like that, its not becouse you did something good, its becouse thief did something really bad.
    running ito the field to "reveal" thief could be described to any skill in the game. The skill is fine, if my oponent is bad he will miss it and no problem.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

    U have to remember though in these players minds if u ever beat a thief in a engagements it means that they screwed up not that u were the better player cuz ultimately in their eyes thief is a god like class and can't be bested unless they make mistakes.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

    U have to remember though in these players minds if u ever beat a thief in a engagements it means that they screwed up not that u were the better player cuz ultimately in their eyes thief is a god like class and can't be bested unless they make mistakes.

    Yeah it's a mistake to commit a fight, he should just be disengaging running around the FFA or map until I finally do a mistake myself.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

    its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.
    most of what it does is cherry on a cake.
    look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.
    most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.
    while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

    its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.
    most of what it does is cherry on a cake.
    look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.
    most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.
    while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

    When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.
    Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.
    Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

    its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.
    most of what it does is cherry on a cake.
    look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.
    most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.
    while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

    When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.
    Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.
    Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

    I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.
    just random dodge my combo.
    I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.
    Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.
    SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.
    its better at proj hate then feedback
    its better at stealthing then veil
    its better pulsing field then well of darkness

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

    good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?
    waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

    its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.
    most of what it does is cherry on a cake.
    look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.
    most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.
    while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

    When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.
    Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.
    Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

    I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.
    just random dodge my combo.
    I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.
    Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.
    SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.
    its better at proj hate then feedback
    its better at stealthing then veil
    its better pulsing field then well of darkness

    Um what? One shotting someone outa stealth on a cheese mesmer burst is the same as a thief dropping a easily identifiable area that they can be pretty easily cleaved in? If those two things are remotely the same to u than I don't kno what to tell ya lol.
    A stealth'd up thief completing a backstab out of nowhere would be the similar scanaro.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    to all of you defending this skill with niche.
    every single thing can be defended like that.
    DONT nerf mirage. just use perma reflect.
    dont nerf 1shot mes, just use autoevade thief !
    dont nerf firebrand, just dont fight them! outrotate!
    dont nerf corrupt boons, just dont get stability !
    dont nerf power damage, just use build with perma prot and 3k toughtness
    dont nerf condi, just cleanse every 3s
    dont nerf mobility just play more mobile build
    dont nerf teleports Just play warrior and hit tether
    dont nerf might generation 25 might is fine, just removed it! my build removes might and im fine with perma 25might builds, and I dont care that everyone else doesnt. MY builds is fine so its fine.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

    its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.
    most of what it does is cherry on a cake.
    look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.
    most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.
    while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

    When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.
    Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.
    Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

    I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.
    just random dodge my combo.
    I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.
    Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.
    SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.
    its better at proj hate then feedback
    its better at stealthing then veil
    its better pulsing field then well of darkness

    Um what? One shotting someone outa stealth on a cheese mesmer burst is the same as a thief dropping a easily identifiable area that they can be pretty easily cleaved in? If those two things are remotely the same to u than I don't kno what to tell ya lol

    if you are quick you can dodge mesmer burst.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

    its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.
    most of what it does is cherry on a cake.
    look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.
    most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.
    while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

    When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.
    Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.
    Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

    I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.
    just random dodge my combo.
    I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.
    Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.
    SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.
    its better at proj hate then feedback
    its better at stealthing then veil
    its better pulsing field then well of darkness

    Um what? One shotting someone outa stealth on a cheese mesmer burst is the same as a thief dropping a easily identifiable area that they can be pretty easily cleaved in? If those two things are remotely the same to u than I don't kno what to tell ya lol

    if you are quick you can dodge mesmer burst.

    Ah that makes sense to compare to a thief using smokescreen and being in a easily identifiable cleave zone. Donno how I missed the connection.
    Are we not talking about the skill itself anymore? Or are we talking about the possible actions a thief can do after using the skill for long duration stealth, I'm confused.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

    good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?
    waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

    You can toss him out with GS5, track with GS4, dab with GS3, even GS2 is unblockable and GS1 doesn't care about barriers??

    Seriously, that's just GS alone and even Chronomancer could laugh with /any/ AoE it has. What about ANYTHING that's AoE anyway??

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm looking at smokescreen from a warrior point of view and if I'm not mistaken sha from rev and it's not really a huge problem skills as u leo make it out to be, I think that it belonging to thief is the bigger offender here for u. As a mesmer player ur gs blast right thru it lol are thief's really a issue for u in part due to this skill?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

    its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.
    most of what it does is cherry on a cake.
    look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.
    most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.
    while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

    When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.
    Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.
    Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

    I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.
    just random dodge my combo.
    I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.
    Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.
    SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.
    its better at proj hate then feedback
    its better at stealthing then veil
    its better pulsing field then well of darkness

    Um what? One shotting someone outa stealth on a cheese mesmer burst is the same as a thief dropping a easily identifiable area that they can be pretty easily cleaved in? If those two things are remotely the same to u than I don't kno what to tell ya lol

    if you are quick you can dodge mesmer burst.

    Ah that makes sense to compare to a thief using smokescreen and being in a easily identifiable cleave zone. Donno how I missed the connection.
    Are we not talking about the skill itself anymore? Or are we talking about the possible actions a thief can do after using the skill for long duration stealth, I'm confused.

    there is a skill, then there is a counter, then there is a counter to counter.
    its like thiefs shadow meld, you might reveal deadeye, but he can show you middle finger and stealth anyways.
    there shouldnt be skills that are good at everything, while also being ultimate counter to something.
    thats why feedback is fine, you wanna hard counter proj, you take feedback. you dont get to also pulse blind and stealth at will from the same skill.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

    good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?
    waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

    You can toss him out with GS5, track with GS4, dab with GS3, even GS2 is unblockable and GS1 doesn't care about barriers??

    Seriously, that's just GS alone and even Chronomancer could laugh with /any/ AoE it has. What about ANYTHING that's AoE anyway??

    GS 4 is pro so it dissapears, and berserke would get blinded in the field to miss.
    gs 2 lands true. gs 1 lands true.
    gs 3 lands, gs5 doesnt land, it has shorter range then the field 480 vs 450.
    even using wells ( assuming anyone would take chrono ) you can leave the field, its still blocking projectiles :D
    you can walk away from the smoke and still blast for stealth next to it.
    thats what I ment that those are counters for bad thiefs, If I were to play chrono and If I were to drop the well to damage stealthed thief, they can just stand 10 pixels next to it, take no damage and continue stealthing.
    If im proj based class, and drop pulsing field on top of it, thief moves to the other end I still cant touch him, it still blocks projectiles.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

    good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?
    waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

    You can toss him out with GS5, track with GS4, dab with GS3, even GS2 is unblockable and GS1 doesn't care about barriers??

    Seriously, that's just GS alone and even Chronomancer could laugh with /any/ AoE it has. What about ANYTHING that's AoE anyway??

    GS 4 is pro so it dissapears, and berserke would get blinded in the field to miss.
    gs 2 lands true. gs 1 lands true.
    gs 3 lands, gs5 doesnt land, it has shorter range then the field 480 vs 450.
    even using wells ( assuming anyone would take chrono ) you can leave the field, its still blocking projectiles :D
    you can walk away from the smoke and still blast for stealth next to it.
    thats what I ment that those are counters for bad thiefs, If I were to play chrono and If I were to drop the well to damage stealthed thief, they can just stand 10 pixels next to it, take no damage and continue stealthing.
    If im proj based class, and drop pulsing field on top of it, thief moves to the other end I still cant touch him, it still blocks projectiles.

    Your berserkers are multi-hits. They will only get blinded once as they shred through, as for GS5 is more likely to hit than not, you've stated the odds and numbers yourself, they are leaping for stealth or blasting, one is more likely to hit than the other but the latter remains they cannot always be evading when you aren't seeing them.

    Don't deny your tools, the cooldown feels somewhat bloated yes but the skill itself is nothing short of what it always was until it just became a circle, like always they are stalling cooldowns and you want to prevent that so, you do you.

    Clear a Mind Wrack to see if they are around and within the second pop Diversion for an halt, I mean even F4 can do it if you care to risk and go for the kill knowing they are on CD and try to avoid you.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

    good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?
    waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

    You can toss him out with GS5, track with GS4, dab with GS3, even GS2 is unblockable and GS1 doesn't care about barriers??

    Seriously, that's just GS alone and even Chronomancer could laugh with /any/ AoE it has. What about ANYTHING that's AoE anyway??

    GS 4 is pro so it dissapears, and berserke would get blinded in the field to miss.
    gs 2 lands true. gs 1 lands true.
    gs 3 lands, gs5 doesnt land, it has shorter range then the field 480 vs 450.
    even using wells ( assuming anyone would take chrono ) you can leave the field, its still blocking projectiles :D
    you can walk away from the smoke and still blast for stealth next to it.
    thats what I ment that those are counters for bad thiefs, If I were to play chrono and If I were to drop the well to damage stealthed thief, they can just stand 10 pixels next to it, take no damage and continue stealthing.
    If im proj based class, and drop pulsing field on top of it, thief moves to the other end I still cant touch him, it still blocks projectiles.

    Your berserkers are multi-hits. They will only get blinded once as they shred through, as for GS5 is more likely to hit than not, you've stated the odds and numbers yourself, they are leaping for stealth or blasting, one is more likely to hit than the other but the latter remains they cannot always be evading when you aren't seeing them.

    Don't deny your tools, the cooldown feels somewhat bloated yes but the skill itself is nothing short of what it always was until it just became a circle.

    I dont want the skill to become once a year use kitten to everyone button. dagger storm is for that.
    they could much lower the duration for example, 7s is a bloody long time to deny projectiles
    and Im not denying counters. Im being relistic. and realistically, I will knock bad thief out of the field with gs5, but the good one will be at the edge, our even out of the field while blasting, and I wont do a thing to him, thats the point.
    gs4 is a multihit indeed, but half of its damage is the projectile ( blade ) and other half phantasm, realistically never hits 4 ticks. its 2-3 so even if 1 tick of daamge gets blinded its propably about 75% damage blocked.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649
    Yeah I guess anytime I win everyone is bad, got it.

    There's absolutely no reason why me with Resistance and an AoE larger than their Smoke Screen should not miss. I mean yes that field is huge at 240 radius, but my CC is 360 radius.

    I win, they bad.

    its funny that you have to pop resistance/ 360 aoe CC to counter 1 utility thats so broken it can be used for 3+ different things.
    most of what it does is cherry on a cake.
    look at feedback and you will realise how lacking that skill is compared to smoke.
    most skills do 1-2 things and thats it, smoke does too many things and increasing cooldown doesnt change the fact that it compleatly kitten on projectiles.
    while kitten on melee slow hiting classes, while also being super stealth field.

    When a thief drops this god like skill it basically screame's cleave in this area as the pulsing blind is not 100% dependable on damage avoidance and as squishy as a thief is can be killed by a few cleaves. I've killed so many thieves gs3 thru their smoke field and have got salty msges via chat after just standing their cleaving thin air within the field only to find the thief downed once their stealth duration ends lol. I'm sry but maybe u should actually try employing counterplay measures instead of running to the forums constantly trying to have ur nemesis class nerfed to the ground. Ud fair off better in the end no?.
    Smoke screen cd was to low at 25 and 35 woulda been just fine for what it is. Almost doubling the current cd is to much imo.
    Anyway it's been nerfed enough now at 45 sec so move on so u can decide what else about thief u can claim is broken and need nerfs to so u can spam the threads with those :)

    I can say the same thing when I 1shot you from stealth.
    just random dodge my combo.
    I dont have problem with kitten thiefs that play like bots and die like bots. I have problem with thiefs that use their skills properly, becouse smoke screen used properly has no counters, and those that "semi work" are kitten.
    Oh GJ you hit gs3 in large pulsing aoe blind field, what stopped the thief from dodging it? and running you down? or mb ignoring you.
    SF gives you immunity to propably 70% things in the game, kitten thief will get dumped by that 30% and people like you are content with it, meanwhile normal nonretarded thief will just dodge OBV gs3. simple example. Skill is bloated.
    its better at proj hate then feedback
    its better at stealthing then veil
    its better pulsing field then well of darkness

    Um what? One shotting someone outa stealth on a cheese mesmer burst is the same as a thief dropping a easily identifiable area that they can be pretty easily cleaved in? If those two things are remotely the same to u than I don't kno what to tell ya lol

    if you are quick you can dodge mesmer burst.

    Ah that makes sense to compare to a thief using smokescreen and being in a easily identifiable cleave zone. Donno how I missed the connection.
    Are we not talking about the skill itself anymore? Or are we talking about the possible actions a thief can do after using the skill for long duration stealth, I'm confused.

    there is a skill, then there is a counter, then there is a counter to counter.
    its like thiefs shadow meld, you might reveal deadeye, but he can show you middle finger and stealth anyways.
    there shouldnt be skills that are good at everything, while also being ultimate counter to something.
    thats why feedback is fine, you wanna hard counter proj, you take feedback. you dont get to also pulse blind and stealth at will from the same skill.

    The DE being able to counter reveal has always been considered a stupid mechanic even by most thiefs and ur right that is example of a counter to a counter which this game has to much of and should never have made it into the game but that has little to do with smoke screen which is a skill that does have simple counters. I also wouldn't categorize it in with or as a counter skill of a counter skill either.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I often think players forget thieves can 100% be cleaved while in stealth and generally don't take a lot of hits to down especially usually stealth heavy builds cuz the plan on not getting hit more often then not lol

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649 I get a predictable 2 seconds of Resistance every 5 seconds, I'm not really concerned by the loss if I can stop the stealth to just toss a Thief around in a chain of CC and AoE damage.

    good for you, what about 98% of playarbase that doesnt get pulsing resistance?
    waht about any projectal class? should the just leave the game, whoopsie thief using smoke, time to do the laundry see you next?

    You can toss him out with GS5, track with GS4, dab with GS3, even GS2 is unblockable and GS1 doesn't care about barriers??

    Seriously, that's just GS alone and even Chronomancer could laugh with /any/ AoE it has. What about ANYTHING that's AoE anyway??

    GS 4 is pro so it dissapears, and berserke would get blinded in the field to miss.
    gs 2 lands true. gs 1 lands true.
    gs 3 lands, gs5 doesnt land, it has shorter range then the field 480 vs 450.
    even using wells ( assuming anyone would take chrono ) you can leave the field, its still blocking projectiles :D
    you can walk away from the smoke and still blast for stealth next to it.
    thats what I ment that those are counters for bad thiefs, If I were to play chrono and If I were to drop the well to damage stealthed thief, they can just stand 10 pixels next to it, take no damage and continue stealthing.
    If im proj based class, and drop pulsing field on top of it, thief moves to the other end I still cant touch him, it still blocks projectiles.

    Your berserkers are multi-hits. They will only get blinded once as they shred through, as for GS5 is more likely to hit than not, you've stated the odds and numbers yourself, they are leaping for stealth or blasting, one is more likely to hit than the other but the latter remains they cannot always be evading when you aren't seeing them.

    Don't deny your tools, the cooldown feels somewhat bloated yes but the skill itself is nothing short of what it always was until it just became a circle.

    I dont want the skill to become once a year use kitten to everyone button. dagger storm is for that.
    they could much lower the duration for example, 7s is a bloody long time to deny projectiles
    and Im not denying counters. Im being relistic. and realistically, I will knock bad thief out of the field with gs5, but the good one will be at the edge, our even out of the field while blasting, and I wont do a thing to him, thats the point.
    gs4 is a multihit indeed, but half of its damage is the projectile ( blade ) and other half phantasm, realistically never hits 4 ticks. its 2-3 so even if 1 tick of daamge gets blinded its propably about 75% damage blocked.

    Ur words "a good thief will" so a good thief shouldn't be able to avoid ur counters? Sounds like if hes good and employing said tactics then its deserved as if it didn't matter than what would the difference be between good and bad thieves be? That applies to all classes or should no? Being good at the class should and will result in players doing things that not good players would not to ensure more potential success

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Zenix.6198 said:
    words

    Tired Charr noises
    I agree, a thief being able to stand in place for 7 seconds is the most broken ability in the game, even with the cooldown increase. More nerfs please.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    If u ever beat a thief in a engagements it means that they screwed up not that u were the better player

    100%

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah it's a mistake to commit a fight, he should just be disengaging running around the FFA or map until I finally do a mistake myself.

    100%

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    To everybody saying "just cleave the field LUL" ....may I remind you, that a single heartseeker in that field turns that masterful "just cleave 4Head" strategy into a double edged sword, cause apparently everyone seems to either forget or actively ignore the fact that one of this skills functions is to stealth you.

    Chaos storm it; Well it; MS it (staff lul); etc etc. And all the while the thief has the option to just stealth once and move out of your massive Cleave-Nuke.
    Also....can we please not pretend that a mesmer Mind-stab or a SB#4 from another thief is the big punish?!

    This skill enables a defensive loop for a SA thief that shrinks down any window of opportunity for counterplay to a minimum.
    It has a 25CD for 7s duration....so an effective downtime of 18 seconds.
    If you stealth up for 6-9 seconds (which is hilariously easy)....you are down to a ~10s downtime.
    Throw in some shadowsteps, withdraws (that obviously also stealths), Shortbow evades/ports, Daggerstorms and what else have you, and this build becomes almost impossible to punish.

    Now, I am willing to reserve further judgement until I see how the CD increase to 45s actually plays out....but this definitely has to be kept an eye on.
    Counterplay windows to this build is are basically non-existent for some specs, and abysmally slim for almost anybody else.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenix.6198 said:
    To everybody saying "just cleave the field LUL" ....may I remind you, that a single heartseeker in that field turns that masterful "just cleave 4Head" strategy into a double edged sword, cause apparently everyone seems to either forget or actively ignore the fact that one of this skills functions is to stealth you.

    Chaos storm it; Well it; MS it (staff lul); etc etc. And all the while the thief has the option to just stealth once and move out of your massive Cleave-Nuke.
    Also....can we please not pretend that a mesmer Mind-stab or a SB#4 from another thief is the big punish?!

    This skill enables a defensive loop for a SA thief that shrinks down any window of opportunity for counterplay to a minimum.
    It has a 25CD for 7s duration....so an effective downtime of 18 seconds.
    If you stealth up for 6-9 seconds (which is hilariously easy)....you are down to a ~10s downtime.
    Throw in some shadowsteps, withdraws (that obviously also stealths), Shortbow evades/ports, Daggerstorms and what else have you, and this build becomes almost impossible to punish.

    Now, I am willing to reserve further judgement until I see how the CD increase to 45s actually plays out....but this definitely has to be kept an eye on.
    Counterplay windows to this build is are basically non-existent for some specs, and abysmally slim for almost anybody else.

    Heartseeker isn’t an evade. So you can generally use the time to AoE the field and kill them while they stack stealth. Or if you are seeing blast finishers you can just stand in the field to let them hit with one cluster bomb (reveals) then pressure them with cleave (as mentioned the pulsing blind doesn’t stop multi-hit abilities well). If you AoE enough that you force them off the Smoke field you cut down their stealth uptime.

    The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

    Is stealth a problem? Bring AoE reveal!

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Zenix.6198 said:
    Now, I am willing to reserve further judgement until I see how the CD increase to 45s actually plays out....but this definitely has to be kept an eye on.
    Counterplay windows to this build is are basically non-existent for some specs, and abysmally slim for almost anybody else.

    Let's say thieves still use smokescreen after this. What's next on the block?

    @saerni.2584 said:
    The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

    Don't point that out. I want to see people go "Thief uncounterable, they should only be relegated to decap duty because shortbow" while also going "Thief only stacking stealth and not fighting me, I can't punish them." The latter is basically the Staff/Staff argument except the thief is losing point contest the whole time they do it.

    @Zenix.6198 said:
    To everybody saying "just cleave the field LUL" ....may I remind you, that a single heartseeker in that field turns that masterful "just cleave 4Head" strategy into a double edged sword, cause apparently everyone seems to either forget or actively ignore the fact that one of this skills functions is to stealth you.

    ITT someone who has never stood in black powder to force thief to reveal or shave their stealth dura

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Zenix.6198 said:
    To everybody saying "just cleave the field LUL" ....may I remind you, that a single heartseeker in that field turns that masterful "just cleave 4Head" strategy into a double edged sword, cause apparently everyone seems to either forget or actively ignore the fact that one of this skills functions is to stealth you.

    Chaos storm it; Well it; MS it (staff lul); etc etc. And all the while the thief has the option to just stealth once and move out of your massive Cleave-Nuke.
    Also....can we please not pretend that a mesmer Mind-stab or a SB#4 from another thief is the big punish?!

    This skill enables a defensive loop for a SA thief that shrinks down any window of opportunity for counterplay to a minimum.
    It has a 25CD for 7s duration....so an effective downtime of 18 seconds.
    If you stealth up for 6-9 seconds (which is hilariously easy)....you are down to a ~10s downtime.
    Throw in some shadowsteps, withdraws (that obviously also stealths), Shortbow evades/ports, Daggerstorms and what else have you, and this build becomes almost impossible to punish.

    Now, I am willing to reserve further judgement until I see how the CD increase to 45s actually plays out....but this definitely has to be kept an eye on.
    Counterplay windows to this build is are basically non-existent for some specs, and abysmally slim for almost anybody else.

    Ummm what? Lol yeah of course their gonna be HS'ing and u can still cleave them while their invisible stacking stealth and if they hit u reveals them lol win win.

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Ummm what? Lol yeah of course their gonna be HS'ing and u can still cleave them while their invisible stacking stealth and if they hit u reveals them lol win win.

    @saerni.2584 said:
    The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

    Is stealth a problem? Bring AoE reveal!

    S-Sure....that doesnt change the fact, they dont actually have to stay in the area, like they do with SR. SR actively reveals you when you exit it, before it ends. Smokescreen doesnt. If I (as the thief player here) see that my freaking smokefield is getting blasted by cleave....I, well, just get out. If I got 1 heartseeker out of it....thats already fair enough.
    Why are you people pretending that the thief has to commit to stack stealth for a good 5 seconds in the field and just ignore the incoming nukes?

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    If we are forced into it...I’m going to start running Shadow Portal and just instantly decap every chance I get. Who needs shortbow 5? Lol.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Ummm what? Lol yeah of course their gonna be HS'ing and u can still cleave them while their invisible stacking stealth and if they hit u reveals them lol win win.

    @saerni.2584 said:
    The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

    Is stealth a problem? Bring AoE reveal!

    S-Sure....that doesnt change the fact, they dont actually have to stay in the area, like they do with SR. SR actively reveals you when you exit it, before it ends. Smokescreen doesnt. If I (as the thief player here) see that my freaking smokefield is getting blasted by cleave....I, well, just get out. If I got 1 heartseeker out of it....thats already fair enough.
    Why are you people pretending that the thief has to commit to stack stealth for a good 5 seconds in the field and just ignore the incoming nukes?

    One Heartseeker isn’t 5 seconds of stealth.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Ummm what? Lol yeah of course their gonna be HS'ing and u can still cleave them while their invisible stacking stealth and if they hit u reveals them lol win win.

    @saerni.2584 said:
    The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

    Is stealth a problem? Bring AoE reveal!

    S-Sure....that doesnt change the fact, they dont actually have to stay in the area, like they do with SR. SR actively reveals you when you exit it, before it ends. Smokescreen doesnt. If I (as the thief player here) see that my freaking smokefield is getting blasted by cleave....I, well, just get out. If I got 1 heartseeker out of it....thats already fair enough.
    Why are you people pretending that the thief has to commit to stack stealth for a good 5 seconds in the field and just ignore the incoming nukes?

    One Heartseeker isn’t 5 seconds of stealth.

    Can you stop pretending to missunderstand what I am saying?

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Ummm what? Lol yeah of course their gonna be HS'ing and u can still cleave them while their invisible stacking stealth and if they hit u reveals them lol win win.

    @saerni.2584 said:
    The “impossible to punish” narrative is ironic when the Smoke Screen has a clearly visible area. Like Shadow Refuge, you can see where it is. Unlike Shadow Refuge it doesn’t heal and requires additional resources (combos) to actually provide stealth. If they can spend 10+ seconds stacking stealth they are literally only stacking stealth.

    Is stealth a problem? Bring AoE reveal!

    S-Sure....that doesnt change the fact, they dont actually have to stay in the area, like they do with SR. SR actively reveals you when you exit it, before it ends. Smokescreen doesnt. If I (as the thief player here) see that my freaking smokefield is getting blasted by cleave....I, well, just get out. If I got 1 heartseeker out of it....thats already fair enough.
    Why are you people pretending that the thief has to commit to stack stealth for a good 5 seconds in the field and just ignore the incoming nukes?

    One Heartseeker isn’t 5 seconds of stealth.

    Can you stop pretending to missunderstand what I am saying?

    Ah, you meant stacking stealth in the field for 5 seconds.

    By that time I’ve usually gotten attacked and had to get some range. I’m not sticking around for longer than three seconds if someone pressures the field.

    I am using Cluster Bomb to stack in that case, so I can sort of stand outside the field to avoid cleave. But I don’t often get to use it “in combat” to stack stealth because at most I’m likely to need distance after breaking target than more stacks of stealth while being hit with AoE damage.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020

    @Zenix.6198 said:
    If I (as the thief player here) see that my freaking smokefield is getting blasted by cleave....I, well, just get out.

    And you lose stealth duration. which means you either will pop back up or you will be going back to the stealth field to stack more.
    Both of those actions are predictable.

    Why are you people pretending that the thief has to commit to stack stealth for a good 5 seconds in the field and just ignore the incoming nukes?

    You have to commit to stack stealth. You will not auto reveal if you exit the field, yes, but dropping it at least guarantees you will be close by for 7 seconds, whether you are at the edge or not. All damage applied by the aoe will hurt you, and if you do not interact with the field in the next 7 seconds you will waste it.
    Nobody says that a thief is going to mindlessly stack stealth in the field while you nuke them. The action they will likely take in response to that nuke, though, shaves seconds off their stacking or puts them in a position where you can ruin their stacking entirely.

    And even if you dont ruin it theyre losing the point

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • @saerni.2584 said:
    I am using Cluster Bomb to stack in that case, so I can sort of stand outside the field to avoid cleave.

    Guess what skill is visible when a thief is using it to stack in smoke screen.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]