Including Strike Mission Achievements as a Required Part of the Zone Meta - Page 12 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Including Strike Mission Achievements as a Required Part of the Zone Meta

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  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2020

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    It was a long time ago, but even back then, I remember the head dev of WoW saying less than 5% of the population plays mythic raids. You saying they're popular doesn't actually make them popular. Their clear rates is very low.

    As for what Guild Wars 2 strike missions are or aren't, I've done them. With the lag we currently get due to Amazon servers and living in Australia they're not optimal content even if I like them. You may find them fine, others don't. No one player gets to decide what's easy or hard for other players. Trying some of this stuff with Tasmanian ping might give you a slightly different view as well.

    I meant mythic dungeons. they are better fractals since they are not capped like fractals and go from faceroll to super hard unlike fractals which just go up to small inconvenience. mythic raids require 25 players from the same server and a server transfer costs 20€ and they dont scale.

    Also strikes are more comparable to lfr. and like i said, just get 1-2 healers and you dont need to dodge anything in the easier ones so lag is a non issue. only exception is boneskinner which needs dodges and jormag needs some skill. thats why strikes are probably there. to show how big of an influence certain support builds have so the importance and influence of team composition is shown to players outside of raids/fractals. and trust me there are even some supports that could carry not dodging players even through boneskinner and whisper.
    i could even show that to you if you would play on eu.

    the "dont want to get carried" thing i read here somewhere before is also just a funny double standard. 80% of the players get carried through world bosses all the time but in strikes its suddenly bad? just use arc on chak or drakkar or any other world boss. unless its reset with a map full of fractal/raid players there will be a group of like 5-10 players doing the majority of the damage.
    sometimes the top 5 do even more than the entire rest of the squad combined

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    It was a long time ago, but even back then, I remember the head dev of WoW saying less than 5% of the population plays mythic raids. You saying they're popular doesn't actually make them popular. Their clear rates is very low.

    As for what Guild Wars 2 strike missions are or aren't, I've done them. With the lag we currently get due to Amazon servers and living in Australia they're not optimal content even if I like them. You may find them fine, others don't. No one player gets to decide what's easy or hard for other players. Trying some of this stuff with Tasmanian ping might give you a slightly different view as well.

    I meant mythic dungeons. they are better fractals since they are not capped like fractals and go from faceroll to super hard unlike fractals which just go up to small inconvenience. mythic raids require 25 players from the same server and a server transfer costs 20€ and they dont scale.

    Also strikes are more comparable to lfr. and like i said, just get 1-2 healers and you dont need to dodge anything in the easier ones so lag is a non issue. only exception is boneskinner which needs dodges and jormag needs some skill. thats why strikes are probably there. to show how big of an influence certain support builds have so the importance and influence of team composition is shown to players outside of raids/fractals. and trust me there are even some supports that could carry not dodging players even through boneskinner and whisper.
    i could even show that to you if you would play on eu.

    the "dont want to get carried" thing i read here somewhere before is also just a funny double standard. 80% of the players get carried through world bosses all the time but in strikes its suddenly bad? just use arc on chak or drakkar or any other world boss. unless its reset with a map full of fractal/raid players there will be a group of like 5-10 players doing the majority of the damage.
    sometimes the top 5 do even more than the entire rest of the squad combined

    I don't get carried through world bosses and don't want to be. But there's a distinct difference between a world boss and a strike mission. At any rate, it's completely irrelevant if you personally or any harder core player thinks a strike mission is easy. That's really not the issue. It's certainly not the issue for me. It's about the strike mission being something I don't want to do and never had to do before. It's about changing the game I'm playing for the benefit of raids which weren't in the game when I bought it. Raids which I campaigned against putting in the game in the first place. Raids which now doesn't have a big enough audience to survive without changing the game I was already enjoying. Frankly I wouldn't care if raids were removed from the game altogether but i know that will never happen. What I will complain about is my content being changed for the benefit of building a bridge to a content type I didn't want in the game in the first place.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I don't get carried through world bosses and don't want to be.

    Are you sure about this? Have you ever checked that? its impossible to tell without something like a dps meter.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I don't get carried through world bosses and don't want to be.

    Are you sure about this? Have you ever checked that? its impossible to tell without something like a dps meter.

    Wbile I don't have a DPS meter personally, I've been in squads with friends who do. I'm never the top guy in DPS is a squad, but I'm often like #3 or 4. I'm certainly not being carried. I make use of food, utilities, might and fury (depending on profession obviously), combos etc. I break bars. I do just fine. I'm not sitting in front of a practice dummy going for a perfect rotation but that doesn't mean I can't do DPS.

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:
    Because as PvErs with RL we definitely have play cycles we enjoy. Not being able to complete story metas is not one of them!

    The rl argument doesnt hold at all. Sports need 1-3h time investments WITHOUT BREAKS! aswell and even more for tournaments and i've never heard somebody say: "i cant play football because i have rl".

    Just as a side note:

    I do hear fairly regularly from my friends who have a family and a dedicated job that for professional and family reasons they can not participate in our sporting activities and most of them do not participate in tournaments. When my friends were younger and had no family or jobs, of course that didn't happen that much.

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  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'm never the top guy in DPS is a squad, but I'm often like #3 or 4. I'm certainly not being carried.

    I wonder how can all the players in a squad fit in spots #3 and #4. Oh wait it's all about you specifically and not the players of this game.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'm never the top guy in DPS is a squad, but I'm often like #3 or 4. I'm certainly not being carried.

    I wonder how can all the players in a squad fit in spots #3 and #4. Oh wait it's all about you specifically and not the players of this game.

    All the players obviously can't. I said I wasn't being carried and the guy questioned me.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'm never the top guy in DPS is a squad, but I'm often like #3 or 4. I'm certainly not being carried.

    I wonder how can all the players in a squad fit in spots #3 and #4. Oh wait it's all about you specifically and not the players of this game.

    All the players obviously can't. I said I wasn't being carried and the guy questioned me.

    They said:

    the "dont want to get carried" thing i read here somewhere before is also just a funny double standard. 80% of the players get carried through world bosses all the time but in strikes its suddenly bad? just use arc on chak or drakkar or any other world boss. unless its reset with a map full of fractal/raid players there will be a group of like 5-10 players doing the majority of the damage.

    and you answered:

    I don't get carried through world bosses and don't want to be.

    They made a clear statement about players being carried even on World Bosses, you replied by using your own data, projecting again. Do you agree that players are being carried at World Bosses all the time or not?

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'm never the top guy in DPS is a squad, but I'm often like #3 or 4. I'm certainly not being carried.

    I wonder how can all the players in a squad fit in spots #3 and #4. Oh wait it's all about you specifically and not the players of this game.

    All the players obviously can't. I said I wasn't being carried and the guy questioned me.

    They said:

    the "dont want to get carried" thing i read here somewhere before is also just a funny double standard. 80% of the players get carried through world bosses all the time but in strikes its suddenly bad? just use arc on chak or drakkar or any other world boss. unless its reset with a map full of fractal/raid players there will be a group of like 5-10 players doing the majority of the damage.

    and you answered:

    I don't get carried through world bosses and don't want to be.

    They made a clear statement about players being carried even on World Bosses, you replied by using your own data, projecting again. Do you agree that players are being carried at World Bosses all the time or not?

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'm never the top guy in DPS is a squad, but I'm often like #3 or 4. I'm certainly not being carried.

    I wonder how can all the players in a squad fit in spots #3 and #4. Oh wait it's all about you specifically and not the players of this game.

    All the players obviously can't. I said I wasn't being carried and the guy questioned me.

    They said:

    the "dont want to get carried" thing i read here somewhere before is also just a funny double standard. 80% of the players get carried through world bosses all the time but in strikes its suddenly bad? just use arc on chak or drakkar or any other world boss. unless its reset with a map full of fractal/raid players there will be a group of like 5-10 players doing the majority of the damage.

    and you answered:

    I don't get carried through world bosses and don't want to be.

    They made a clear statement about players being carried even on World Bosses, you replied by using your own data, projecting again. Do you agree that players are being carried at World Bosses all the time or not?

    I never disagreed with it. But I object to someone saying that the reason some people don't want to do strike missions is because they can't. Most world bosses are very very easy. I'm convinced if everyone pressed 1 most of them, the vast majority would still die. So no, those people aren't being carried, except perhaps in how fast it gets done. Not like Shadow Behemoth is so unbelievably fun that I should really use a rotation. I do anyway, but I can see why people wouldn't.

  • @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    I'm relatively sure the majority of WoW players are casual, btw.

    Might be true but they dont complain every time an achievement needs a group to beat. the worldbosses in wow actually need you to search a group since they dont work like "jump to map and afk leech the whole thing" like in gw2.
    Strike missions are included in the map meta so people actually try them out. Most of them are even easier than world bosses. In what other way can you get players to try content besides open world?
    Maybe you didnt like them but what if the majority actually likes them but they would have never found out because they wouldn't have tried them without the meta achievement?

    @Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:
    Because as PvErs with RL we definitely have play cycles we enjoy. Not being able to complete story metas is not one of them!

    The rl argument doesnt hold at all. Sports need 1-3h time investments WITHOUT BREAKS! aswell and even more for tournaments and i've never heard somebody say: "i cant play football because i have rl".
    The strikes need 3-5min time investment without interruptions and maybe copying a decent build for pve from a site. Everything except boneskinner and whisper of jormag dont need any special tactic. Just grab at least 1 healer to make it easy. So maybe if enough players learn the fighting system with strikes all the story missions dont have to bore fractal, raid and even better pvp players to death because story bosses just die after 3 attacks. And i include that taimi golem in this. Because multiple open world heroes love to complain about it while it phases in like 10sec vs a decent dps build. a full facetanking dps build.

    You do realize, you just proved my point don't you?
    I think you are misunderstanding my post. Because "i've never heard somebody say: "i cant play football because i have rl". " THE GAME IS their rl!?! :p It's their job, not their entertainment. You need to change that to i've never heard somebody say: "i cant play football because i have to change my kids diaper". Or clean up the spilled plate or mop up the floor from crayons or help them sit on the potty! Are you saying you would let your child keep a nose bomb in their diaper for 10m? Do you have any idea what that can do to their body? THAT's IF they keep their hands out of it! :p:# Picture it in your head......Google it I'm sure there are videos of what this looks like!

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:
    You do realize, you just proved my point don't you?
    I think you are misunderstanding my post. Because "i've never heard somebody say: "i cant play football because i have rl". " THE GAME IS their rl!?! :p It's their job, not their entertainment. You need to change that to i've never heard somebody say: "i cant play football because i have to change my kids diaper". Or clean up the spilled plate or mop up the floor from crayons or help them sit on the potty! Are you saying you would let your child keep a nose bomb in their diaper for 10m? Do you have any idea what that can do to their body? THAT's IF they keep their hands out of it! :p:# Picture it in your head......Google it I'm sure there are videos of what this looks like!

    Playing a video game is a hobby like sports. with rl i meant responsibility stuff like kids you mentioned or a job. 5 minutes without interruptions shouldnt be impossible to achieve.
    isnt the timing on diaper changes a bit predictable. i mean if you just changed it you are somewhat safe for a bit. strikes are not raids. today i cleared all of them in like 10min. group had no requirement except for certain support builds.

  • @ Nephalem.8921

    Sports can be a hobby, they can also be a career. Without more information it's hard to tell which you mean. However, as a hobby or entertainment you again prove my point that it takes a back seat to RL / Responsibilities. THAT is my point also AND why the afk happens. I'm guessing you do not have kids at this point? There's nothing wrong with that weather or not you do or don't is your choice, more power to you. We do and so do many others, not that THAT is the sole reasoning behind afking. But YES! with kids especially younger ones 5m IS absolutely not an easy task to achieve! What any parenting movie out there and sooner or later one or the other parent will complain about needing "Just 5 mintues!!" . Go watch Shrek, to quote him "donkey, could you not be your self for five minutes?" It's a perfect example.

    "Predictable Diaper changes" My friend!!! IF you could invent that you would be able to own ALL the MMORPGS in the world!!!! No joke! To dig more into parenting getting slightly off topic but proving more why Strike Missions, RAIDs, or focused group content is not so constant.....Lets say I just finished changing that nose bomb of a diaper. Guess what? That means their little (or in some cases large) tummy's are now empty. SO I sit down and load in that PvP match or Non-Boneskinner Strike Mission. We're all sitting there loading up on our Essences. Then lets say 1m later (cuz we waited for full group, and we've waited longer!) we start in on the boss It's @ 50% Say 1m later. do the math, 2m on an empty stomach. Now 25% the cool new or reused abilities we all know and love or are experiencing for the first time start and we need those DPS's! 3.5m in now. Tug Tug Tug at my shirt....."Daaaaaad...I'm thirsty!" "Daaad...I have a peepee"...AAaannnd there goes the match afk. Just 4m in. Because that fresh new diaper didn't hold all the pee that wasn't let out WITH the nose bomb and now the pants need changing also!!! TAG your it!

    And again you prove my point! Gear / Build checking! I have yet to have one of those gear / build checkers, lets stick with build, build checkers share a build they wanted!!! If they want that build on a player share it YOU CAN!!! OMG......Guess what? There goes the group as players leave waiting for some one to Google said build and hopefully find the code! Cuz yeah that's happened to us also. Or it gets dissolved because the player accepting the build doesn't know the "skill rotation" of it, now THAT needs to be shown. Or they don't have the right gear to go with the build.....Do we make our point yet?

    I get it I see your side it's not like we're new and haven't tried. We've not done tons, but we certainly have given it a fair go to get those achievements you say are not stopping us from completing it. Except they ARE. :s

    BTW it's time for me to go pick up said distractions now cyaz :p<3

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The nitpicking and semantic arguing over every single word Vayne types in this thread is becoming laughable.

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  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:
    The nitpicking and semantic arguing over every single word Vayne types in this thread is becoming laughable.

    People fight with the weapons available to them. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask for Strike missions not to be included in the meta moving forward. It's not an unreasonable request. Clearly some people agree with me.

    It's easier to pick on the majority or most comments, rather than just accept a perfectly reasonable request. They don't like how I phrased it but the core issue hasn't changed.

    I believe enough people are annoyed enough that this change should happen. Other people have a different opinion on it.

    Since the request is reasonable (not like I'm asking Stirke Missions to be removed from the game), it's hard for them to debate by giving a kitten good reason why they should remain as part of the meta, even if a percentage of people object. So they look for what they can argue with...most of which doesn't address my main concern at all, but you have to use the tools available to you.

    I haven't seen too many people say no, this needs to stay this way and give a solid reason. They'd rather move the bar.

  • @Nephalem.8921

    Also, I did want to put in something but I had to leave. I wanted to say, YES, you are also correct that while these things do take place they are not 100% of the time. The distractions take place frequently enough to make participating in group content like Strike Missions, raids, Matches, Tournaments, and even Fractals and dungeons very unsuccessful and a much larger challenge rating! We literally stopped doing dungeons the first 2 years because of the leetude, gear checks (back then it was for exotics), XP checks and so on. It's what AreanaNet was NOT wanting to happen that nonetheless still to this day happens. Then there were the distractions that remain today. So NO I am not saying it's 100% each and every time we try. It's also not far from more than 3/4 or closer to 80%!

    In any case the new release on March 17th Steel & Fire video uses the words "unlock" That word was most often used was for story line achievement rewards in LWS1 & @ when we had to repeat a story instance and work on the achievement. I'm not saying that is what's going to be but I am certainly hopeful that is what they mean! It would be nice if we could play the mode we enjoy and earn the same rewards!

    Enjoy all!

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2020

    @Dante.1763 said:
    The nitpicking and semantic arguing over every single word Vayne types in this thread is becoming laughable.

    It's true. The best part is that when someone thinks they win the whole internet because they believe they negated some minuscule point or statement he's made.

    Nothing being said here changes the fact that it's a bad idea for Anet to be inconsistent with product offerings ... EVEN if mystic raids are DA BOMB ... or whatever other irrelevant fact someone wants to make. I've yet to see a reason to keep it other than the obvious one that it will be work that might not be worth the effort for Anet to reverse it (CMON guys, you don't learn anything from what I'm saying to you? :astonished:)

    What I'm HOPING is that this doesn't continue; I believe that's the BEST we can hope for.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/