KP in Strike Missions, seriously — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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KP in Strike Missions, seriously

I'm against KP in general because I find it elitist, but... look, I get it. Some people take the game seriously, especially the raiders and fractal folks. If you're doing Fractal CM speedclears or Raids, I get that you want some kind of proof that someone knows the mechanics so that your run has less chance of failing. I've done CMs maybe once or twice but I do T4s daily and I know how frustrating it is to wipe because one person isn't carrying their weight.

But seriously, people asking for KP in Strike Missions is absoultely ridiculous. I completed Shiverpeaks Pass and Whisper of Jormag twice today with PUGs that had 2 healers, some decent condi dps folks and a few randos just doing their thing. These things aren't hard. They don't give insanely high rewards and they're not really "super prestigious hi-end content". The mechanics are fairly easy to pick up, or explain in one or two sentences.

I've done the missions so this is not me spilling salt over being kicked from a party for not having KP or whatever. I just think it's stupid and discouraging to a lot of players that want to give it a shot.

Comments

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    lol, nubs will be nubs

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Make your own group with less conditions > wipe may be once or twice > players learn something > loot > look at the LFG and sigh after the 250li group still awaiting for players.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Aren't these requirements just jokes? Nobody pinged anything when i joined those groups for fun. i only encountered a wannabe elitist once who wanted double chrono + druid for kodan. thats not even optimal and kodan is easy gold reward anyways.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    Even if it wasnt a meme, if a player wants to seriously demand high credentials, that's their perogative to play that way. Is it needed? Hundo percent no. But it's not any less stupid than someone posting for a Sabathia run with only pistol pistol thieves. Dont like the group? Dont join it. People need to stop complaining about how other people play the game when they have options to opt out.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Each their own. Would love a setting that didn't allow 2k DPS players to join my groups but we can't have it all

  • @Nephalem.8921 said:
    Aren't these requirements just jokes? Nobody pinged anything when i joined those groups for fun.

    Happened to me too, so I guess you're right.

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Dont like the group? Dont join it. People need to stop complaining about how other people play the game when they have options to opt out.

    Sometimes these groups are the only ones on LFG. When I have a choice between waiting for 30 mins to find 10 people or joining a 7/10 party with "100li" and them telling me to eff off even though I know the mechanics and have beaten harder stuff than a 10 minute golem bossfight... I don't know, I just feel we could do without it. Though as the guy above said, they're mostly lols and we went in without anyone pinging anything anyway.

  • Lexi.1398Lexi.1398 Member ✭✭✭

    Despite being memes they are magically going to attract largely raiders + t4 CM peoples because no one else understands they're memes. So yknow, maybe it is a requirement in some way... :P

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    state of the game these days.
    are they gear checking too?

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2020

    Most of the times those are just joke groups. Personally Ill always post a strike squad and ask 250 dhuum KPs. Squad always gets filled fast, seems like ppl understand that its a joke.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The good thing about these lfgs is that they often - not always - don't attract weaker players and in the end you get a clean & easy fight because only experienced people with a proper self-confidence are joining plus knowing what to do.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • @JackassTheX.6351 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:
    Aren't these requirements just jokes? Nobody pinged anything when i joined those groups for fun.

    Happened to me too, so I guess you're right.

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Dont like the group? Dont join it. People need to stop complaining about how other people play the game when they have options to opt out.

    Sometimes these groups are the only ones on LFG. When I have a choice between waiting for 30 mins to find 10 people or joining a 7/10 party with "100li" and them telling me to eff off even though I know the mechanics and have beaten harder stuff than a 10 minute golem bossfight... I don't know, I just feel we could do without it. Though as the guy above said, they're mostly lols and we went in without anyone pinging anything anyway.

    Or make your own group, there's always that option that nobody ever considers when complaining about kp/li/whatever requirements. Is that too elitist too?

    vabbi.eu

  • anyone who is underperforming at this point in time is entirely their fault. also there should be a vote option for anet sponsored ddosing.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2020

    I don't know what you're complaining about - Anet made strikes to bring the casual and raider content and communities closer, and this is eaxctly what is happening there. Casuals can now get to know raids better, and surely things like that will make them more interested.
    Surely.
    [/sarcasm]
    But, on a more serious note - it's not like behaviour like that could not be predicted beforehand. It was quite obvious this was going to happen once the difficulty of strikes achieved a level where some players may feel the need to filter out people they think might cause the attempt to fail. That's a raider mentality right there, and in a content that plans to span all the difficulty levels between casual content and actual raids it was certain to kick in at some point.
    And well, it's not like players do not have some very good reasons to make group requirements for joining, so you can hardly blame them for doing exactly that.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • I dunno, it seems kinda pointless in strike missions to have kp since it's meant to be the bridging gap between raiding or training steps to raids.

    Whispers and skinner both require players to be watching out for important mechanics you cannot ignore and can be frustrating if someone is not doing mechanics or doesnt know what to do... end up resing them asap but get downed and whole bunch o players go down trying to save u and the other downed... frustrating
    But we dont want to be scaring away players with kp.
    More people interested in strikes = potential players wanting to raid = more interest in anet to develop/spend resource on new raids (pls pls)

    LFG with exp yes but kp .. seriously not with strikes lol

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Get rid of kp by bridging the insane performance gap between an open world bottom feeder and a veteran raider.

    Yes. This is the gap Anet would need to bridge. Unfortunately, i do not believe it's possible without some major rework of the whole combat/class/build system.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • vyncius.6105vyncius.6105 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2020

    i think its a joke. i once got kicked from boneskinner group because they asked for 250 bananas, i had only like 35.

  • Honestly if they had a proper gear check, it might fix the problem. Kp is to try to filter out the worse of the worst, those who are not raid/strike ready. Mainly we are talking about folks in random gear doing 3k dps. Personally, if there was a proper inspect with gear and traits, i would not care who is in my group as long as they done the leg work to get proper gear and build, no mater the xp.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Instead of asking for KP, add a link to the wiki and ask players to read it before zoning in. You'll get groups filled much quicker.

    Seriously, I did the Whisper Strike for the 1st time today on my lunch break. Took 30 secs to read the wiki entry, and I then knew every mechanic that was coming. P3 was a surprise for me, as everything was going on at once, but it was easier on the subsequent attempts. But at no point was I asking myself "what are those green circles" or "why is there a chain attached to me"?

    Sadly after 4 wipes, all at 10-11%, I had to leave to go back to work.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People most likely experienced some horrendous attempts and groups. KPs are the only check avaible to us. Remove them and they will be asking for AP or for you to link gear like in the old dungeon days.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Get rid of kp by bridging the insane performance gap between an open world bottom feeder and a veteran raider.

    Yes. This is the gap Anet would need to bridge. Unfortunately, i do not believe it's possible without some major rework of the whole combat/class/build system.

    Why a rework when the gap is due to player skill?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Get rid of kp by bridging the insane performance gap between an open world bottom feeder and a veteran raider.

    Yes. This is the gap Anet would need to bridge. Unfortunately, i do not believe it's possible without some major rework of the whole combat/class/build system.

    Why a rework when the gap is due to player skill?

    First, this is a bit more than just about skill. Skill, yes, plays a role, but that's what makes the difference when everything else (gear, traits, skills selected) is the same. But the knowledge of all of those is as important. Even small changes in traits and skills selected can have significant impact on your effectiveness, and you cannot do your dps rotations right if you don't know how they should like (and, let's be honest, most of the rotations are not very intuitive).
    Second, the game can teach you about game mechanics, but most of things that impact effectiveness simply cannot be taught by the game. The game has no idea what the proper rotation should like, and while the freestyle build system can help you create magnificent and supereffective builds, usually it only helps you in crippling your character.

    So, basically, with the current system, most players won't get any better, and there's nothing the game can do about it. The only way to close the insane performance gap between them and hardcore veterans is by decreasing the possibility of such a gap even existing - and that can only be done by removing all those things that faciliate it. And that can't be done without a major rework of a whole build/class/combat system.

    Which, as we know, is not likely to happen.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Get rid of kp by bridging the insane performance gap between an open world bottom feeder and a veteran raider.

    Yes. This is the gap Anet would need to bridge. Unfortunately, i do not believe it's possible without some major rework of the whole combat/class/build system.

    Why a rework when the gap is due to player skill?

    First, this is a bit more than just about skill. Skill, yes, plays a role, but that's what makes the difference when everything else (gear, traits, skills selected) is the same. But the knowledge of all of those is as important. Even small changes in traits and skills selected can have significant impact on your effectiveness, and you cannot do your dps rotations right if you don't know how they should like (and, let's be honest, most of the rotations are not very intuitive).
    Second, the game can teach you about game mechanics, but most of things that impact effectiveness simply cannot be taught by the game. The game has no idea what the proper rotation should like, and while the freestyle build system can help you create magnificent and supereffective builds, usually it only helps you in crippling your character.

    So, basically, with the current system, most players won't get any better, and there's nothing the game can do about it. The only way to close the insane performance gap between them and hardcore veterans is by decreasing the possibility of such a gap even existing - and that can only be done by removing all those things that faciliate it. And that can't be done without a major rework of a whole build/class/combat system.

    Which, as we know, is not likely to happen.

    Everything you mentioned is considered skill though. What you’re suggesting is adding a handicap.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Get rid of kp by bridging the insane performance gap between an open world bottom feeder and a veteran raider.

    Yes. This is the gap Anet would need to bridge. Unfortunately, i do not believe it's possible without some major rework of the whole combat/class/build system.

    Why a rework when the gap is due to player skill?

    First, this is a bit more than just about skill. Skill, yes, plays a role, but that's what makes the difference when everything else (gear, traits, skills selected) is the same. But the knowledge of all of those is as important. Even small changes in traits and skills selected can have significant impact on your effectiveness, and you cannot do your dps rotations right if you don't know how they should like (and, let's be honest, most of the rotations are not very intuitive).
    Second, the game can teach you about game mechanics, but most of things that impact effectiveness simply cannot be taught by the game. The game has no idea what the proper rotation should like, and while the freestyle build system can help you create magnificent and supereffective builds, usually it only helps you in crippling your character.

    So, basically, with the current system, most players won't get any better, and there's nothing the game can do about it. The only way to close the insane performance gap between them and hardcore veterans is by decreasing the possibility of such a gap even existing - and that can only be done by removing all those things that faciliate it. And that can't be done without a major rework of a whole build/class/combat system.

    Which, as we know, is not likely to happen.

    Everything you mentioned is considered skill though. What you’re suggesting is adding a handicap.

    Depends on how you define skill. I see knowledge and execution as 2 separate things. Knowledge gaps are relatively easy to overcome in game by implementing recommended builds when you hit level 80. Assuming people dont change the way they execute other than gear and traits, youd likely close that 10x gap quite a bit.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Get rid of kp by bridging the insane performance gap between an open world bottom feeder and a veteran raider.

    Yes. This is the gap Anet would need to bridge. Unfortunately, i do not believe it's possible without some major rework of the whole combat/class/build system.

    Why a rework when the gap is due to player skill?

    First, this is a bit more than just about skill. Skill, yes, plays a role, but that's what makes the difference when everything else (gear, traits, skills selected) is the same. But the knowledge of all of those is as important. Even small changes in traits and skills selected can have significant impact on your effectiveness, and you cannot do your dps rotations right if you don't know how they should like (and, let's be honest, most of the rotations are not very intuitive).
    Second, the game can teach you about game mechanics, but most of things that impact effectiveness simply cannot be taught by the game. The game has no idea what the proper rotation should like, and while the freestyle build system can help you create magnificent and supereffective builds, usually it only helps you in crippling your character.

    So, basically, with the current system, most players won't get any better, and there's nothing the game can do about it. The only way to close the insane performance gap between them and hardcore veterans is by decreasing the possibility of such a gap even existing - and that can only be done by removing all those things that faciliate it. And that can't be done without a major rework of a whole build/class/combat system.

    Which, as we know, is not likely to happen.

    Everything you mentioned is considered skill though. What you’re suggesting is adding a handicap.

    Depends on how you define skill. I see knowledge and execution as 2 separate things. Knowledge gaps are relatively easy to overcome in game by implementing recommended builds when you hit level 80. Assuming people dont change the way they execute other than gear and traits, youd likely close that 10x gap quite a bit.

    I see them as being the same thing but just different aspects.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Depends on how you define skill. I see knowledge and execution as 2 separate things. Knowledge gaps are relatively easy to overcome in game by implementing recommended builds when you hit level 80. Assuming people dont change the way they execute other than gear and traits, youd likely close that 10x gap quite a bit.

    Only if good builds will be a result of planned dev design, not something community comes with. And only if those builds will remain stable, instead of changing every now and then.
    And rotation, which is an integral part of the build is something that cannot be reasonably taught within the game

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Depends on how you define skill. I see knowledge and execution as 2 separate things. Knowledge gaps are relatively easy to overcome in game by implementing recommended builds when you hit level 80. Assuming people dont change the way they execute other than gear and traits, youd likely close that 10x gap quite a bit.

    I see them as being the same thing but just different aspects.

    I don't see ability/willingness to look up things on third party sites as skill.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    Depends on how you define skill. I see knowledge and execution as 2 separate things. Knowledge gaps are relatively easy to overcome in game by implementing recommended builds when you hit level 80. Assuming people dont change the way they execute other than gear and traits, youd likely close that 10x gap quite a bit.

    I see them as being the same thing but just different aspects.

    I don't see ability/willingness to look up things on third party sites as skill.

    I wasn't saying that was a skill. It'll help improve your skill but it itself is not a skill.

    Edit: Just to clarify, "that" being what you just said in your post. While the act of researching something is a skill, it wasn't what I was referring to in this context.

  • I'm one of the people who try to make squads for strikes. Personally when I 1st saw the LI requirements for Whisper I laughed, but as time has went while I still find it really silly I do understand why people are doing it.

    When Whisper strike mission came out everyone was doing it, new players or vets, raiders or not, it was a nice mix of people from all skill levels and so success rate of the strikes was pretty high, but recently I have noticed a drop in interest in Whisper strike and that has caused pretty high dispersity in skill level for some runs, while those runs can be still done it comes at a price of time and annoyance. Personally I get around that issue by having reliable people from raid/fractal group in support roles, but can't always have my people around, because we all do what we do with our free time.
    Those runs where I'm alone and commanding Whisper lately have started to fail a lot more and pug turnover is really high, some leaving after a single try, making me LFG for 5min at times, because I want to get a 2nd healer. I won't mention getting best setup with all supports, because enough times I just take what I get and accept, because it can be done anyway reliably and I know people don't like reading LFGs fully, that said out of respect for everyone I do hard demand healers for Whisper.

    I personally think LI requirements came from a issue that interest is dropping and those who want to do it daily prefer to better wait 15min-30mins and do it in 1-2 tries rather then spend 4-5 tries and be unsure, if it will be done and how many people will leave after each attempt. I'm not claiming either of approaches guarantees a kill, but flocking to an safer, but slower option is something quite normal.

    One last thing I want to say, people are free pick and make whatever squads they want and have whatever requirements they want, we have to respected that even, if we don't agree, because we have the option of making our own squad and doing it our way, if people agree they will join, if we fail they will leave.
    I personally find it pretty nice seeing people doing the strike for 1st time and seeing them getting better and better at mechanics and then getting a kill, shame that ain't the outcome always thou.

  • @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    Honestly if they had a proper gear check, it might fix the problem. Kp is to try to filter out the worse of the worst, those who are not raid/strike ready. Mainly we are talking about folks in random gear doing 3k dps. Personally, if there was a proper inspect with gear and traits, i would not care who is in my group as long as they done the leg work to get proper gear and build, no mater the xp.

    Built-in gearcheck for instanced content would have been nice.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭
    edited February 23, 2020

    Its pretty easy solution to fix KP mentality .
    Reduce the rewards in the LFG (true/false) and increase them in Guilds.
    Any push to place random peaople in Guilds , is a welcomed one , to create bonds

    Edit: Or you can get full rewards , for the first 3 times you had initiated the party in the LFG .
    Let someone else enlist/start the LFG
    A person demanding such huge amount of KillProof , surely will invite another 1-2 members in his party , to start the group under a different leadership .
    It will be like a mini-guild self-containing all these high skilled players

    Be Right Back My Lord - Desolation

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That’s not an easy solution nor would it resolve what you claim to be an issue.