Conditions

Since the beginning of the game there were lets say 3 way of dealing dmg:

1) Power dmg2) Condition dmg3) Hybrid

At the end of GW2 core pvp was unbalanced, but still better than this, but since HoT condition build got improved and from brainless build they became efficient too.Builds that allows you to spam, to make errors, and so on.Recently the builds are starting also to get burst condition dmg ( something like half second for condi application, and 2/3k tick per second ).And also, condition users benefits also from attributes like power, plus the fact that enemies has no armor... then their power dmg, maybe with no critical chance attribute nor critical dmg attribute can allow a player to deal decent sustain dmg in adjunct to conditions.

All this should be fixed somehow:

A)-Remove extra critical chance traits, so players who wants to crit attacks will take necks which give precision, or maybe sigils, fury abilities and so on.-Split Up Condition Damage into Condition Damage and Condition Speed.-Divide the % condition damage between Condition Damage and Expertise-Set up a "Marauder" version of Condition damage

this will prevent players from going tanky, if the chose to deal dmg, and also will limit hybrid players who wants to support/tank.

B )-Set all player Stats to ZERO, then Add 1000 to the Stats provided by necks.

This will prevent players from going Hybrid

Note that these are only suggestion, but ANET should really face the fact that condition builds are everywhere and are ruining everything cause the less skill they require, the less effectiveness of a good dodge/evade, and so on.

Condis are weak fam

I don't see how this would fix the problem you're complaining about.

You also said to split condi damage into condi damage and condi speed? What is condi speed supposed to do? Does that add more ticks? How would that work with confusion?

And more importantly why is your thread complaining about condis transitioning into removing bunkers?

@Durzlla.6295 said:I don't see how this would fix the problem you're complaining about.

You also said to split condi damage into condi damage and condi speed? What is condi speed supposed to do? Does that add more ticks? How would that work with confusion?

And more importantly why is your thread complaining about condis transitioning into removing bunkers?

it is related.Let me restart and explain facts related to condition users:

1) Condition users use mostly 1 stat, which is condition damage ( while a zerk class uses 3x stats, or a 4 stat variant neck if required, like thief which has 11k hp ).

2) Due to the fact they use only one stat, the can go deep in something else, which could be

1. More damage ( Expertise, but mostly power ), in adjunct to the condi build one
2. More survival, which could be mostly Toughness and Vitality, but also Healing.

3) The amount of dmg dealt in 2/3 sec ( not the entire durate of the damage skill ) is almost the same of a good critical hit skill.

4) The longer the fight ( or the condi spam, which incrases with more players ) the better and efficient the build is.

That said, the division into 3 stats would be something like

The actual condition damage could be reach with the "Marauder Condition Neck", which will give:

1. 1050 Condition Damage
2. 1050 Condition Speed
3. 560 Vitality
4. 560 Expertise

So, the actual damage reached by condition will be split into this neck:with just 1200 condition you deal 2k x second.you are going to need now 1050 Condi Dmg, 1050 Condi speed and 560 Expertise to reach the same damage.

You are going to reach then more ticks per second due to speed, but the overall dmg will be the same.

ps: confusion will work the same as before. The damage on skill would remain the same, and the damage overtime will be the same ( maybe more ticks, as said before, but the same overall ).

Then, obviously, not having a Power bonus from the neck, their stat will be Zero, and they will deal near no damage.A Marauder build also wouldn't deal any condition dmg to their enemies.And obviously, might stacks could provide a slightly improvement ( but knowing that you couldn't reach the 1000 base stat, it would be really low ).

Bunkers will deal less dmg.Lets take the mender neck which gives 1050 power ( 33% dmg achieved ) 550 precision ( 33% damage achieved ) but lacks 1050 offensive stat points, so the base damage will be 33% less powerful.

That was the idea.

Shortly:1.Less survival for condition users2.Condition users ( dps ) forced to use a full dps neck instead of an hybrid.3.No more Power damage for condition users ( unless they decide to split it, with something like Carrior Amulet, which will deal btw around 33% less dmg from condition and from 66% from power.

Condition builds generally aren't bunkers. And those that do have survivability don't really rely on the stat amulet to get there. (Evade, block and stealth are how most "bunkers" can avoid taking damage.

I don't think making a new statistic improves the game. I also think you are mistaken in your claim that under your system Maurader will do no condition damage. It already doesn't really do that much damage (much like power damage on a condition build).

I think you didn't do enough to establish what the problem you were trying to solve was. I'm still confused what the exact problem you think we need to solve is.

I said it

Condi should do ZERO dmg from power.Condi should use as much stat as a Marauder.

If some1 wants to do hybrid dmg, it should do 50% and 50% . or less than a pure spec.

I'm sorry, but you suggest a very convoluted solution to an issue that isn't even especially problematic. Not at this point, at least.

It is when condi build hits a dps build for 2k skill dmg ( no condi ).

edit: i mean not that my solution is great, but that it is a real problem the braindead condition wars.

I have no idea how it would be fixed but over the course of the changes it is undeniable condition builds have been getting pretty up there. The amount of ways we have to easily apply tons of conditions is ridiculous and in the terms of PvP we have so few ways if removing conditions as opposed to applying them. Really makes you have to be careful when you use removal skills but at the same time if you cant kill them after that you are screwed.
Currently across PvP, PvE, and WvW Conditions builds across every spec has been phasing out Power builds as the prefered/Meta/effective/safe build choice.Even in Raiding the previously hard seated Phalanx Strength Warrior is being phased out in favor of its Condition variant as well as Elementalist's thing slowly creeping up.Conditions were supposed to be debilitating effects and Damage Over Time that the entire team can contribute to maintaining, but the damage per tick conditions can do is starting to become crazy for how easy they are to maintain and quickly apply, and in the case of some specs spread out.Now with the Griever Stat type on the horizon I dont see the snowball stopping any time soon as people are actually experimenting a little bit and not constantly meta humping as of late.

I just think theres an issue when most of peoples go to builds for high end is becoming mostly Condition based.

armor should lower condi dmg too not only power dmg, problem fixed, even tho it is ridiculous how fast you can stack condis nowadays, if they cant burst you in 5 seconds after first being applied than it is not as much of a problem

i think there are to many boons, to many conditions.... to much things stacking mindlessy, this game combat is a mess due that, the way ic to easy balance out that is that shouts need to be shouts, stances need to be stances etc like gw1 that would balance out the boons stacking

Then some conditions need to be changed hexes to avoid easy stacking ....

Anet never should had abolished what they worked so well in Gw1.If everything had its own category back, the game would be in such spam mess...

But hey most people play this game cause they get easilly carried... so i doubt ANet would do abything about making combat more decent on this.

@Shirlias.8104 said:Since the beginning of the game there were lets say 3 way of dealing dmg:

1) Power dmg2) Condition dmg3) Hybrid

At the end of GW2 core pvp was unbalanced, but still better than this, but since HoT condition build got improved and from brainless build they became efficient too.Builds that allows you to spam, to make errors, and so on.Recently the builds are starting also to get burst condition dmg ( something like half second for condi application, and 2/3k tick per second ).And also, condition users benefits also from attributes like power, plus the fact that enemies has no armor... then their power dmg, maybe with no critical chance attribute nor critical dmg attribute can allow a player to deal decent sustain dmg in adjunct to conditions.

All this should be fixed somehow:

A)-Remove extra critical chance traits, so players who wants to crit attacks will take necks which give precision, or maybe sigils, fury abilities and so on.-Split Up Condition Damage into Condition Damage and Condition Speed.-Divide the % condition damage between Condition Damage and Expertise-Set up a "Marauder" version of Condition damage

this will prevent players from going tanky, if the chose to deal dmg, and also will limit hybrid players who wants to support/tank.

B )-Set all player Stats to ZERO, then Add 1000 to the Stats provided by necks.

This will prevent players from going Hybrid

Note that these are only suggestion, but ANET should really face the fact that condition builds are everywhere and are ruining everything cause the less skill they require, the less effectiveness of a good dodge/evade, and so on.

If we assume there are two ways of building a burst build, power and condi, then I don't know how you can say they are "everywhere" or OP. Some classes are mostly condition, some are mostly built power, and a few have multiple options. If anything, I think power is much more prevalent.

You say condi builds are less skill but I disagree. You have to combo abilities together to get big stacks for your burst just like you have to combo power skills together for spike damage. I hate to throw out a L2P but, honestly, I think that's what it is. Build so that you can deal with those conditions. Play so you stop running into aoes full of conditions. And manage your cleanses. If you have only one long CD capable of cleansing then you are choosing to leave yourself open to condi bursts. That doesn't mean condi is OP. That just means your build has a weakness, as all builds do and should.

So I take it everyone only wants one way to deal damage, alrighty then

Useless comment, no offense.Everybody, which includes condi users, can admit that conditions need to be balanced.

Game changed Since core game but was not followed as it should have been.We think spvp was unbalanced Pre hot, but we miss the pre hot pvp now.Spvp is left to itself, but this is not a reason to deny it.

But ofc if you don't want to discuss about it be my guest and feel free to leave.

Builds need to be balanced. Conditions aren't separate from builds.

If a Death's Judgment hits me for 45k I'm not going to say "balance power damage." I'm going to complain about DJ.

Issue is that the skills which cause condition damage don't get named in your combat log with the condition damage. So you can't really tell what is hurting you most.

@Shirlias.8104 said:Useless comment, no offense.Everybody, which includes condi users, can admit that conditions need to be balanced.

Game changed Since core game but was not followed as it should have been.We think spvp was unbalanced Pre hot, but we miss the pre hot pvp now.Spvp is left to itself, but this is not a reason to deny it.

But ofc if you don't want to discuss about it be my guest and feel free to leave.

Those are some powerful rose tinted glasses you have. You really don't remember DS Cele Eles? You know, literally invulnerable against any condition build and most power builds? Did you forget that they had to limit how many players of a given profession can be together on a PvP team, because teams were stacking 4 Elementalists and a Thief and beating much more highly skilled opposing teams who weren't stacking?

I'm not saying that things are perfect now, but they're certainly better than the pre-nerf Tempest/Chrono bunker meta, and arguably better than the pre-HoT Cele DS Ele meta where conditions, even fear and immobilize, were rendered completely and utterly useless by just one single trait. The current meta is certainly better than that one from a standpoint of conditions versus power, since at least now, there are viable (meta) builds for each.

We all agree they are better than pre-nerf Tempest/Chrono bunker meta... see what point we are now that we can use that as a comparison...

I will most definitely disagree to anyone who suggests measures to reduce the validity of Valkyrie builds. VALKYRIE4LYF.

I don't like your suggestion...

I like condi for my alts. but I get what your saying for people who just lay a condi field not even before its laid down. pssh your dead. that's not pvp. that's kicking someone when their downed and then downed lol. hence the pssh.

I personally enjoy how you pretend to speak for everyone as if you know, on top of the fact that you're also assuming the exact builds that people are running. Your entire point is based off pure conjecture. Some condi builds require crit to stack conditions for example. How dare a hybrid build that's a jack of both trades but master of none kill you, lets nerf it based because of my own personal bias.

@Trigr.6481 said:I personally enjoy how you pretend to speak for everyone as if you know, on top of the fact that you're also assuming the exact builds that people are running. Your entire point is based off pure conjecture. Some condi builds require crit to stack conditions for example. How dare a hybrid build that's a jack of both trades but master of none kill you, lets nerf it based because of my own personal bias.

If you need to crit, you chose a crit stats as part of your condi build ( cause the extra proc from crit will compensate the damage loss from another condi dmg stat ).Really, i accept the fact that my proposal couldn't be the best. I know it myselft.

Bu still try to write without understand the point i would have wanted to make... well, it makes me sad.

ps: also, i am also against rng concepts as critical hits ( which is a % and not a flat standard thing you can deal with. Both attacker and defender ). There's no skill in kill or being killed cause you or him did crit more. And this works for both Physical dmg and Condition dmg.

Don't misinform yourself or everyone else, please: High Cdamage needs expertise, condi damage, and precision for traits. High power damage needs power, ferocity, and precision. There's no distinct stat advantage for condi tanks here. Of course, condis have extra effects, but you also get to ignore nearly all of the damage and effects with cleanses, and you can put up resistance. Furthermore, dodge is NOT less effective. You can dodge application, and that's the same as blocking a power dude's attack.This is the basics of condition damage vs power damage. Combining the two just means you have the same weaknesses a full condi guy has, but with lesser effect from your condis + you'll likely be glassier.. I also don't see how condis require less skill than power. Both are just mashing your keyboard if you only want damage.If you do end up pointing out that condis have extra effects eventually, remember even most power builds have some conditions(such as cripple).

@Kumouta.4985 said:Don't misinform yourself or everyone else, please: High Cdamage needs expertise, condi damage, and precision for traits. High power damage needs power, ferocity, and precision. There's no distinct stat advantage for condi tanks here. Of course, condis have extra effects, but you also get to ignore nearly all of the damage and effects with cleanses, and you can put up resistance. Furthermore, dodge is NOT less effective. You can dodge application, and that's the same as blocking a power dude's attack.This is the basics of condition damage vs power damage. Combining the two just means you have the same weaknesses a full condi guy has, but with lesser effect from your condis + you'll likely be glassier.. I also don't see how condis require less skill than power. Both are just mashing your keyboard if you only want damage.If you do end up pointing out that condis have extra effects eventually, remember even most power builds have some conditions(such as cripple).

Looking at metabattle i don't see many class who needs to use full condi dmg, except condi war ( which you can see into spvp ) and condi Revenant ( didn't see 1 in over 30 matches ). You didn't look did you?So guess where the damage i am talking comes from.

@Shirlias.8104 said:So guess where the damage i am talking comes from.

Poor reaction time, and lack of understanding which lead to your initial post.