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Weavers depend on group in fractals?

I usually play as a Tempest with good DPS but I've seen already how a Weaver can (really) be more aggressive.

My problem is that I can't stay alive standing at any boss foot expecting to survive hits that take 50/60% of my HP.

I'm steel playing around T2 so the question is: it depends all on me to stay alive, group doesn't matter? OR a berserker Weaver depends on others boon/protection/heal to stay there?

Ps: if your answe is the second one, I would love some good and practical advices on how doing that. Something more than "just dodge and know mechanics"

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Answers

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2020

    People tend to run rather inefficient builds in those lower tiers. People tend to run terrible builds at first with very little synergy and all that.

    The key to success in all group content is, well, group synergy. Never go for self-sustain if group-sustain is avaible to you. Do not cover something someone else is already taking care. A single well build and played support will be able to do more for the survival of their entire group than any amount of random defensive gear, defensive utilities or kiting by the other players.

    The rule of thumb is to try to maximize damage on four of your members while using as little as possible support and healing on your last player. The amount of boons and healing required on this last person might vary greatly depending on the group but the rule still stands.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Miezekilla.1486Miezekilla.1486 Member
    edited February 18, 2020

    Generally speaking: yes/no, depends….

    Regarding staying alive:

    Most hard hitting attacks can be avoided by dodging, positioning or other game mechanics (e.g. break bar). In T2 a good healer might be able to outheal these attacks, but in T4 or higher this is not possible. However, you will take some damage even if you play perfectly and thus need some heal in the group.

    Your responsibility as a DPS is to avoid all big attacks possible while doing the best DPS you can. Knowing the boss mechanics is vital for this.
    Also: the group should always stack on each other unless a mechanic forces them to split – if everyone is far apart the boons and heals will only reach a part of the group.
    Regarding support/boons:

    GW2 heavily rewards role specialization in group content.
    A tested and very efficient setup currently looks like this:

    Heal/boon hybrid (e.g. heal firebrand that also gives might, quickness and fury to the group)
    DPS/boon hybrid (e.g. Damage Renegade that also gives might and alacrity to the group)
    DPS (ideally at least one warrior to support the group with banners)
    DPS
    DPS

    The idea behind this is to ensure everyone has the important boons (25 might, fury, alacrity and quickness), you have enough heal/support as necessary and as much damage as possible
    If your role is not to specifically give an important boon (usually you need 25 might, fury, alacrity and quickness), then everything you equip and trait should maximize your damage. The only compromise you can do is to bring boss specific utility if needed (e.g. extra break bar damage, stability, mobility)

    However, this is only really relevant for high end content. In T2 fractals and below you can run a suboptimal build with missing boons or no clear role distinction and still have a smooth run. T4 fractals are also definately doable with another setup or a suboptimal setup, but some players like to have it as quick/easy as possible and will insist on the current meta composition.

    Have fun!

  • Kahlan.7249Kahlan.7249 Member ✭✭
    edited April 30, 2020

    Yeah, a full zerker's weaver depends entirely on the group for boons and heals and stuff.

    You're definitely not the only one who has a bad experience w/ playing zerker's weaver while pugging lower tier fractals.

    You do get better from pugging the hellish lower tier fractals with bad instabs, and learn how to dodge and what not to step in (and then forget to once you start doing T4s with a healer around...).

    Fractal defensive potion

    If you're not already, get the defensive potion for fights that have a lot of "stray damage" that can't be avoided, or bad instabilities. For example, places I'd definitely take it to are T3 Twilight Oasis without heals, T3 Swampland without heals, T3 Deepstone without heals, etc.

    CC the boss with consumables

    You can mitigate a lot of the boss's damage by CCing the boss using consumables.
    https://discretize.eu/guides/consumables
    (under "crowd control" section)

    These are very popular among Fractal CMs, and honestly I'd recommend them even if you aren't going into them - especially if you continue to play weaver..

    As the squishiest person, you stand with the most to lose if the boss continually attacks, and as well due to the nature of weaver, you also lose a lot of DPS from using your own CC skills/being stuck in air & earth after the bar breaks.

    I started using them when I got into T3 fracs, and I thought they seemed "extra" at first, but I would HIGHLY, highly recommend them. ^__^ Minimize your inventory + move it in the top-right corner, bind it to an easy keybind, and get used to clicking the item & then pressing skill 1 or whatever you use to CC with it.

    Other random defensive potions (takes up the "utility" slot/superior sharpening stone)

    (read "mob-specific enhancements" under the dT consumables section)

    There are lots of utilities that help with survivability - I got these when I first started pugging T3 fracs. Personally, I would recommend ignoring some of the them, since you don't need them that badly and they're just unnecessary inventory clutter.

    These are the ones that I would recommend (these are all super cheap):

    • Powerful Potion of Dredge Slaying for Underground Facility (nice for standing on the buttons and just the mobs in general)
    • Powerful Potion of Outlaw Slaying for Cliffside (final fight of cliffside can be nasty with bad instabs, especially if one member of your group is running around making it hard for the healer, and if nobody is pulling in the mobs)
    • Powerful Potion of Elemental Slaying for Underground Facility (the ice elemental final boss is really nasty. also honestly for that ice elemental fight, if you're just getting used to it, take twist of fate for stunbreaks instead of arcane blast - it's worth it. also prepare to CC the boss with a consumable right before the bar goes up again to mitigate the attack, it helps both you + the group a lot)
    • Powerful Potion of Slaying Scarlet's Armies for Captain Mai Trin Boss, Molten Boss, Molten Furnace, and @Arkk in Shattered Observatory.
    • Powerful Potion of Sons of Svanir Slaying for Snowblind (there's a lot of random damage in the last boss fight, T3 snowblind/T4 is pretty deadly for a weaver, especially a weaver who can't dodge (or if you're me, runs around randomly in all the agony-inducing aoe's during the split phases). Also CCing the boss really helps here too, since you can stop one of his nasty spinny sword attacks if timed right)

    Other random tips for pugging with random group comps

    If you need an extra dodge as weaver, feel free to stay in Air 5 and use that for an evade. I like using this in Ensolyss in 99cm since I find sometimes I need three dodges, and my energy bar doesn't quite refill fast enough for that.

    If you're fighting mobs in random groups, feel free to honestly play a little "pvp-style" even if you're currently in zerker's gear. Dip into earth for the evade in earth 2. Use the aoe cc of earth 4 against mobs.

    To be more self-sustaining in deeps when you are pugging T3 fractals, or any place where you're noticing that you aren't getting a lotta might, take Fire 1-3-2 instead of the meta Fire 1-3-1. "Pyromancer's Pussiance" provides a lot of free might, and giving up the longer fire fields is only a minor DPS loss.

    Get into the habit of "letting other people tank for you" - personally, I've picked up the habit of never being the person to rush in first in front of mobs.

    Always make sure the healer (if there is one) is running beside/in front of you, or make sure (if there's no healer) there are multiple people running in front of you. Especially in T3 fractals. Like seriously, just let the dude with his movement signet and WvW gear take the damage from the mobs while you slowly run in last and uhh, earth 2 evade. LOL.
    .
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    bUT yeAH thE beST guIDE TO eLE is TO deleTe yoUR ele And mAke rAngER or gUARdiAN iNSTeaD

    ele feels fine in reg t4s if there's a healer tho, esp healbrand. if you really like the class though, you can tough it out til there and it's not bad, but it's not worth it unless u really like the class : D

  • Besetment.9187Besetment.9187 Member ✭✭
    edited May 4, 2020

    Weaver depends on positioning to survive. It is definitely not as self sufficient as Tempest but you will be surprised at what you can get away with if you stand in the right places.

    For the most part, you want to be attacking the boss's back, so you can't get hit by front facing aoe cones and cleaving attacks. If the boss switches target and turns to face you, then you rotate around so you have the boss's back again. If they still follow you, this is how you know a boss has randomly targeted you.

    Some bosses have attacks that can hit 360 degrees around them but you have to learn those telegraphs on a case by case basis. Amala in Twighlight Oasis is a good test case because she has loads of phases - Lyssa, Melandru, Dwayna, Grenth and Balthazar, each with different telegraphed attacks. All of them can be avoided by not standing in front of the boss. All the shockwaves can be jumped over, several attacks can be avoided with the special action skill and the rest of the 360 degree attacks have safe places to stand in between the circles and lines of death. Crucially, you don't have to ruin your dps uptime by moving far from melee range either. This is something you will probably learn by getting hit a bunch of times, until you get a feel for the timing and where you need to stand. If you can't walk out of red circles and cones, your positioning was probably terrible to begin with.

    A good support duo will trivialize most fractals because of the utility they can bring. The combination of aegis, stability, projectile reflection and resistance allow you to ignore most sources of incoming damage and cc. Whatever chip damage does get through can be life siphoned away thanks to stonecleave's summit. You still have a responsibility not to get destroyed by boss mechanics but at the more structured level, a Power Weaver's job is not to worry about survival. It is to end boss phases and kill things as quickly as possible.

    In non meta pugs, you just have to take more personal responsibility for your own survival. Weaver is a good class to learn the value of positioning. I used to not play Weaver on HoT maps and swap away from Weaver in pug fractals where support is lacking or absent. But now I just stay on Weaver. If you play it enough you just learn what you can and can't get away with. In some ways, I find Weaver more survivable than Dragonhunter. On bosses with adds, I can suicide dps and as long as I'm cleaving the adds, I know I will rally off my own downed lava font.