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CC- split: Idea and suggestions for arenanet


CroTiger.7819

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First of all im big fan of this game and play it from original guild wars which is definitly best game i ever played. Guild wars 2 combat system have amazing potential to be even better than original game. The problem is lack of interupt gameplay because 80% of cc is made for stunlock and instead decreasing the spam it acts totally opposite, as now cc is being spammed.I will use example of guild wars 1 pvp team build which name was BALANCED WAY. Name of the team build setup says it all and build actually survived all meta shifts and have stayed in line with everything new. The reason i talk about this is because of interupt playstyle which makes game skillful and not spamming fest. So the balanced team in their midline had 2 interupt playstyle proffesions and they are mesmer and ranger. Having these 2 proffesions in team build allowed to shutdown any important skills in given situations and use interupts as defense and offense. While it can seem op from someone who never played original game thats far from true because everyone was able to fake cast skills and counter even fast interupt gameplay with knowledge of how things work. What i think is problem with Gw2 is actually lack of soft-cc interupt gameplay and idea is to make that playstyle valuable and when that is done game will be in great term of balance. To do that things like boonspam, powercreep, too many hard cc and map issues (where only classes with ports will have big advantage and don t allow new roamers to be viable), need big shift and even map balance since teleports are good and skillfull actions but map design pushes that idea too far and kills potential diversity of builds.So the soft-cc meta shift is actually idea to make 1/4s daze with low cd valuable, instead of just hard cc spam we have today which is not meant to interupt anything in most scenarios and is used and spammed just for shutdown. If all things such as powercreep and boonspam is set on line (nerfed hard especially stab and quickness uptime) where picking just control interupting playstyle build actually means something, than the game will have much more depth like Gw1. To make it clear one more time soft-cc is actually daze 1/4 sec on lower cd than hard cc... and hard-cc are all others types of cc we have today making the game feel this way. All of the hard-cc should be balanced the way so everyclass shouldn t have way of picking and having more than 1 hard cc in build on higher cd except some builds like hammer warior. When we get to that level, being able to interupt every 5 sec with 1/4s daze won t be a problem since enemie can fake cast and stability will still be there but as RARE as hard cc .

Each proffesion should have unique hard-cc so (i will give few examples ) :

ranger will have taunt (for helping teamates when focused and also chase potential)mesmer will have stun (for locking down targets)engineer will have launch for decapswarrior will have knockdown for seting burstsrevenant will have knock backelementalist will have floatguardian will have pullnecromancer will have fearthief gets new cc effect which i don t have idea right now but something like paralize which acts familiar to stun

So ranger along with mesmer will have best amount of soft-cc making them kings of interupt playstyle. Since mesmer already can play that style (not viable cus of things i said in intro discussion) but ranger can t even give it a try since longbow which is already better utility and dmg than shortbow, even have better cc. Making shortbow viable in this state of game where interupts (soft cc 1/4 daze) actually means something shouldn t be hard. I will give a shot on few changes to underperforming (few overperforming aswell to match concept i talked in intro)

If 80% amount of hard cc is splited for cc made for interupt or even other utilities which are not cc at all, than we will be able to play with 1-2 stunbreaks and have more build diversity while interupts will be able to keep balance on spamming.So lets start with:

  1. warior: Since warior have knockdown as only hard cc available for proffesion hammer will shine as best hard cc weapon ingame. Rest of warior weapons like dagger daze should last 1/4 sec and keep the dmg of autoattack same for mace except f1 adrenaline skill on mace should daze for 1 sec of each bar (making it unique than othe daze skills which are now 1/4 duration for interupts).

  2. ranger: Shortbow fits the style of interupt weapon. Shortbow skill 5 now have 2 counts of unblockable 1/4 daze with 20sec cd. Light on your feet now supports interupt playstyle and makes shortbow 5 removes 20 endurance from target if it interupted only. Shortbow skill 3 now traited with light on your feet also daze 1/4 sec and it deals bonus dmg if target is interupted. Light on your feet keeps piercing and looses dmg modifiers for condis and power on evade. Sharpened edges now procs lesser sharpening stones on interupt (5 stacks of bleed on 20sec cd). Longbow point blank shot now have 2 counts and inflict cripple only, while making clear animation with kind of kneel down and increase dmg 2x if target already have cripple. Spike trap now dazes for 1/4 second and keep unblockable with nice stakcs of bleeding+cripple if traited. Pets like spiders should get more active f2 like fast cast 1/4 daze with no dmg aswell just to fit interupt style

  3. mesmer: It mostly stays the same but greatsword 5 now daze 1/4 sec with aoe blind. Chrono elite well now stuns only and deals dmg on end if target didn t breaked stun and moved out. Mantra of distraction is 2 counts 1/4 daze with 1/4 cast time to be handy for interupts. Power block stays the same and removes weaknes part of it because 20sec recharge added on interupted skills with dmg should be enough. Staff chaos storm now don t daze and its now on staff 3 which is now 1/4 sec cast time fast unblockable daze 1/4 second aswell and it procs additional phantasmal (already existing one) if you interupted skill.

  4. revenant: Shortbow kd now knocks back instead aswell as hammer 5 which should be able to make circular path in animation now to knock ppl inside radius out of radius

  5. guardian: lb knockback now pulls targets towards end of arrow. Shield 5 now dazes 1/4 sec instead knockback.....

  6. necromancer: Fear is already deep implemented in class and needs small changes like gs pull to act like fear in 2 ways (boomerang effect) instead pull to fit style of each proffesion having unique cc

I can go on with examples but i hope you get main idea and its splitting hard cc (made for stunlock) for unique proffesion based and soft cc (1/4 sec daze made for interupt) as universall mechanic for all proffesions. I think interupts will do good job at preventing spam ingame overall and keep hard cc even more worth a good timing. This way we will also be able to have 1-2 stunbreaks because interupts doesn t need stunbreak because they are very short cc to waste stunbreak on it. So transition and reduction of overall hard cc will result in more utility play aswell as less importance of having alot of stunbreaks. If you are side holder and you get plussed (2 enemies with each one having 1 hard cc which should be average for classes) while you have 1 stunbreak that means you will still have the chance to dodge one and be able to remove other but in same times you can take 2 stunbreaks and your targets could have more hard cc-s especially if you are fighting hammer warior. Final though is that CC overall need more attention especially now when boons and dmg is reduced which is definitly healthy and great way for future of the game. This upcoming balance patch is actually great setup to make interupt style back which would balance spam in game even further and keep things in check allowing counterplay. So 80% of cc is soft-cc made for interupts and 20% of cc is hard-cc made for stunlock. I guess its better to eat interupt than 2-3 second stun,daze,float,launch on same interval....

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@"CroTiger.7819" said:

  1. mesmer: It mostly stays the same but greatsword 5 now daze 1/4 sec with aoe blind. Chrono elite well now stuns only and deals dmg on end if target didn t breaked stun and moved out. Mantra of distraction is 2 counts 1/4 daze with 1/4 cast time to be handy for interupts. Power block stays the same and removes weaknes part of it because 20sec recharge added on interupted skills with dmg should be enough. Staff chaos storm now don t daze and its now on staff 3 which is now 1/4 sec cast time fast daze 1/4 second aswell and it procs additional phantasmal (already existing one) if you interupted skill.Very bad changes.GS5 shouldn't be a daze, it should create a distance between the mesmer and the foe so that it synergies with the autoattack."Gravity" theme needs to apply launch and knockdown.Mantra charges can't have a cast time.Reducing already low sustain in Domination by nerfing weakness is a VERY bad idea.AoE CC on Chaos Storm is very valuable and fits staff's role: defensive aoe (bounces on autoattacks) weapon.

Problem with mesmer is, it has nearly zero teamfight presence. If you are going to make mesmer a ccbot teamfighter (like the current warrior) you need to buff teamfight potential and reduce 1v1 - 2v2 potential.

Also, GW1 players have this weird idea that GW2 mesmer should be similar to GW1 mesmer. However, as I stated above, mesmer is a duelist not a teamfighter. CC helps in 1v1s but not as much as damage and sustain would have helped.

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@"Tayga.3192" said:

Very bad changes.GS5 shouldn't be a daze, it should create a distance between the mesmer and the foe so that it synergies with the autoattack."Gravity" theme needs to apply launch and knockdown.Mantra charges can't have a cast time.Reducing already low sustain in Domination by nerfing weakness is a VERY bad idea.AoE CC on Chaos Storm is very valuable and fits staff's role: defensive aoe (bounces on autoattacks) weapon.

Problem with mesmer is, it has nearly zero teamfight presence. If you are going to make mesmer a ccbot teamfighter (like the current warrior) you need to buff teamfight potential and reduce 1v1 - 2v2 potential.

Also, GW1 players have this weird idea that GW2 mesmer should be similar to GW1 mesmer. However, as I stated above, mesmer is a duelist not a teamfighter. CC helps in 1v1s but not as much as damage and sustain would have helped.

Man if mesmer is able to interupt key skills combined with their instant defense mechanics to run away if focused in teamfight than building style around powerblock and interupt should mean something if mesmer is good since interupting warior f1 could save 5k health lost and 5k heals won t be needed aswell as opposite way and interupting their fb heal so new 5k dmg won t be needed now.... Yes it will be uselles on mesmers which are not learned to interupt but mechanics is definitly good if played corectly and is actually best utility you can get if you are skilled enough. If you think chaos storm needs daze and it would be less handy if you gain it on currently almost uselles long cd staff 3 which would now cast 1/4 and make unblockable interupt 1/4 sec daze + spam 2 phantasm if somehting is interupted than im sry. Gs 5 don t need knockback because it gets blind and cripple (even slow)+daze you still have ports to use advantage of gs1 which is not that important since mesmer comes out of stealth close range and use bursts only (if mesmer want to use advantage of range he can but its already not much of his playstyle). I also suggested ranger lb 4 loosing knockback and gain 2 charges of cripple and 2x dmg if target is already crippled so its not personal its more about fitting the idea of each class having unique hard-cc so if you want to critics than don t get caught by small things think about whole design i mentioned.

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As I said in another thread some changes can be impletemented. I am a bit disappointed at some of the incoming changes that increase the cc duration (reaper, druid, spellbreaker).Some things I could definitely see in game are Ranger sb or Guard shield because they have almost instant cast and decent effects. Other should stay the way they are because they serve a completely different purpose.Ranger spike trap takes too long to set up for a short daze + is triggered by walking in it (so this is more a setup skill). Reaper gs also is perfect as a setup for their playstyle and should stay the same. A fear boomerang could be an new spell. (I do not want to get hit by this + the ring …)

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@CroTiger.7819 said:First of all im big fan of this game and play it from original guild wars which is definitly best game i ever played. Guild wars 2 combat system have amazing potential to be even better than original game. The problem is lack of interupt gameplay because 80% of cc is made for stunlock and instead decreasing the spam it acts totally opposite, as now cc is being spammed.I will use example of guild wars 1 pvp team build which name was BALANCED WAY. Name of the team build setup says it all and build actually survived all meta shifts and have stayed in line with everything new. The reason i talk about this is because of interupt playstyle which makes game skillful and not spamming fest. So the balanced team in their midline had 2 interupt playstyle proffesions and they are mesmer and ranger. Having these 2 proffesions in team build allowed to shutdown any important skills in given situations and use interupts as defense and offense. While it can seem op from someone who never played original game thats far from true because everyone was able to fake cast skills and counter even fast interupt gameplay with knowledge of how things work. What i think is problem with Gw2 is actually lack of soft-cc interupt gameplay and idea is to make that playstyle valuable and when that is done game will be in great term of balance. To do that things like boonspam, powercreep, too many hard cc and map issues (where only classes with ports will have big advantage and don t allow new roamers to be viable), need big shift and even map balance since teleports are good and skillfull actions but map design pushes that idea too far and kills potential diversity of builds.So the soft-cc meta shift is actually idea to make 1/4s daze with low cd valuable, instead of just hard cc spam we have today which is not meant to interupt anything in most scenarios and is used and spammed just for shutdown. If all things such as powercreep and boonspam is set on line (nerfed hard especially stab and quickness uptime) where picking just control interupting playstyle build actually means something, than the game will have much more depth like Gw1. To make it clear one more time soft-cc is actually daze 1/4 sec on lower cd than hard cc... and hard-cc are all others types of cc we have today making the game feel this way. All of the hard-cc should be balanced the way so everyclass shouldn t have way of picking and having more than 1 hard cc in build on higher cd except some builds like hammer warior. When we get to that level, being able to interupt every 5 sec with 1/4s daze won t be a problem since enemie can fake cast and stability will still be there but as RARE as hard cc .

Each proffesion should have unique hard-cc so (i will give few examples ) :

ranger will have taunt (for helping teamates when focused and also chase potential)mesmer will have stun (for locking down targets)engineer will have launch for decapswarrior will have knockdown for seting burstsrevenant will have knock backelementalist will have floatguardian will have pullnecromancer will have fearthief gets new cc effect which i don t have idea right now but something like paralize which acts familiar to stun

So ranger along with mesmer will have best amount of soft-cc making them kings of interupt playstyle. Since mesmer already can play that style (not viable cus of things i said in intro discussion) but ranger can t even give it a try since longbow which is already better utility and dmg than shortbow, even have better cc. Making shortbow viable in this state of game where interupts (soft cc 1/4 daze) actually means something shouldn t be hard. I will give a shot on few changes to underperforming (few overperforming aswell to match concept i talked in intro)

If 80% amount of hard cc is splited for cc made for interupt or even other utilities which are not cc at all, than we will be able to play with 1-2 stunbreaks and have more build diversity while interupts will be able to keep balance on spamming.So lets start with:

  1. warior: Since warior have knockdown as only hard cc available for proffesion hammer will shine as best hard cc weapon ingame. Rest of warior weapons like dagger daze should last 1/4 sec and keep the dmg of autoattack same for mace except f1 adrenaline skill on mace should daze for 1 sec of each bar (making it unique than othe daze skills which are now 1/4 duration for interupts).

  2. ranger: Shortbow fits the style of interupt weapon. Shortbow skill 5 now have 2 counts of unblockable 1/4 daze with 20sec cd. Light on your feet now supports interupt playstyle and makes shortbow 5 removes 20 endurance from target if it interupted only. Shortbow skill 3 now traited with light on your feet also daze 1/4 sec and it deals bonus dmg if target is interupted. Light on your feet keeps piercing and looses dmg modifiers for condis and power on evade. Sharpened edges now procs lesser sharpening stones on interupt (5 stacks of bleed on 20sec cd). Longbow point blank shot now have 2 counts and inflict cripple only, while making clear animation with kind of kneel down and increase dmg 2x if target already have cripple. Spike trap now dazes for 1/4 second and keep unblockable with nice stakcs of bleeding+cripple if traited. Pets like spiders should get more active f2 like fast cast 1/4 daze with no dmg aswell just to fit interupt style

  3. mesmer: It mostly stays the same but greatsword 5 now daze 1/4 sec with aoe blind. Chrono elite well now stuns only and deals dmg on end if target didn t breaked stun and moved out. Mantra of distraction is 2 counts 1/4 daze with 1/4 cast time to be handy for interupts. Power block stays the same and removes weaknes part of it because 20sec recharge added on interupted skills with dmg should be enough. Staff chaos storm now don t daze and its now on staff 3 which is now 1/4 sec cast time fast unblockable daze 1/4 second aswell and it procs additional phantasmal (already existing one) if you interupted skill.

  4. revenant: Shortbow kd now knocks back instead aswell as hammer 5 which should be able to make circular path in animation now to knock ppl inside radius out of radius

  5. guardian: lb knockback now pulls targets towards end of arrow. Shield 5 now dazes 1/4 sec instead knockback.....

  6. necromancer: Fear is already deep implemented in class and needs small changes like gs pull to act like fear in 2 ways (boomerang effect) instead pull to fit style of each proffesion having unique cc

I can go on with examples but i hope you get main idea and its splitting hard cc (made for stunlock) for unique proffesion based and soft cc (1/4 sec daze made for interupt) as universall mechanic for all proffesions. I think interupts will do good job at preventing spam ingame overall and keep hard cc even more worth a good timing. This way we will also be able to have 1-2 stunbreaks because interupts doesn t need stunbreak because they are very short cc to waste stunbreak on it. So transition and reduction of overall hard cc will result in more utility play aswell as less importance of having alot of stunbreaks. If you are side holder and you get plussed (2 enemies with each one having 1 hard cc which should be average for classes) while you have 1 stunbreak that means you will still have the chance to dodge one and be able to remove other but in same times you can take 2 stunbreaks and your targets could have more hard cc-s especially if you are fighting hammer warior. Final though is that CC overall need more attention especially now when boons and dmg is reduced which is definitly healthy and great way for future of the game. This upcoming balance patch is actually great setup to make interupt style back which would balance spam in game even further and keep things in check allowing counterplay. So 80% of cc is soft-cc made for interupts and 20% of cc is hard-cc made for stunlock. I guess its better to eat interupt than 2-3 second stun,daze,float,launch on same interval....

I didnt read it all becouse there is only so much stupid I can handle at once.1 Power block nerf would kill it, its not being played now, removing weakness just kills it, expecially since I bet the bug will still remain.2 Gs 5 has a knockback for a FUCKING reason, to create distance or make combos with the weapon itself, or BOTH.3 LB ranger has knockbow for a reason too, to combo with rapid fire, to create distance for stronger autos, and to allow some sort of defence when some monkey jumps on you.you have no clue what your changes would do to the weapons. it fundamentally fucks with the weapons design.there is a reason why RANGED weapons have knockbacksthere is a reason why class with pulsing fields and traps has PULLmaybe go ahead and remove necro pull from GS and turn it into fear, im sure every reaper will be happy that his targets runs from him when he tries to melee them instead of being pulled, SUPER designer BTW

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

I didnt read it all becouse there is only so much stupid I can handle at once.1 Power block nerf would kill it, its not being played now, removing weakness just kills it, expecially since I bet the bug will still remain.2 Gs 5 has a knockback for a kitten reason, to create distance or make combos with the weapon itself, or BOTH.3 LB ranger has knockbow for a reason too, to combo with rapid fire, to create distance for stronger autos, and to allow some sort of defence when some monkey jumps on you.you have no clue what your changes would do to the weapons. it fundamentally kitten with the weapons design.there is a reason why RANGED weapons have knockbacksthere is a reason why class with pulsing fields and traps has PULLmaybe go ahead and remove necro pull from GS and turn it into fear, im sure every reaper will be happy that his targets runs from him when he tries to melee them instead of being pulled, SUPER designer BTW

Man your ignorance is beyond stupid... while im giving concept and examples of posible ways to change some skills so it fits unique proffesion hard cc, you read most trivial part of post and make your comment. You are great at avoiding the main idea which is interupt playtyle instead everything being hard cc. Suggesting power block to keep weaknes just because its bugged is very stupid indeed. But i don t wanna focus on small things because this is idea on spliting CC not on balance skill suggestions (those are just example which i try to give to fit idea of unique proffesion cc). Just because u misread everything ill explain those details for you because yes you somehow managed to see only trivial things. Gs 5 pull on reaper acts as fear from backwards. Yes classes like guardian and aoe skills need pull so i already said guardian should only have pull. Mesmer gs 5 can gain more benefit from being slow+blind and daze 1/4 than knockback (even autoattack skill should change bonus effect since most mesmers spike from close range which is misconception already). Ranger lb4 cripple would change knockback since you should not use lb in malee (especially when we have weapon swap ingame) and if you didn t know snare is also utility of ranged proffesions, so giving it good dmg with cripple on 2 counts would be better for game but maybe not for rangers in current state of game (teleports and many gap closers are part of other discussion, they are op and easly accesible no matter of lb 4 knockback). Gap closers are problem on its own and they are easly deleting distance between malee and range which takes of advantage from ranged classes just by using instant port or warior evade mobility skills for example. So those things have to be done aswell but i don t see point of writing it all down since this is discussion based on having CC sorted out better so it bring new interupt playstyle while still keeping hard cc (even pushing it so each class have unique hard cc while they share only daze as universall cc which is part of interupt playstyle). I writed it many times but seems like ppl here on forum don t wanna skilfull game and you are perfect example. Now go cry because you can t use dodge 2 times and than distortion after scepter 2 and than signet refresh distiortion for new chain while casting offense in same time. If you want to critic or comment than focus on main idea of post which sounds like: interupts will have no worth still to be played as primary role of ranger and mesmer proffesion because of xxxxxx or i think spliting hard cc for proffession unique will rq big effort to implement this late ingame or any other reason. Even i don t like idea of having interupt and i like more to stun or get stuned for atleast 1 sec with every cc so i can eat spam or spam my cc to stunlock and never push timing forward. But pls better don t comment if you want to talk about trivial things since this should be discussion for CC overlook (which should be as big as this upcoming balance). Than we should have last big balance which focus on mobility: too many gap closers... easy map advantage of some classes...easy acces to remove snares for some classes making it almost uselles to snare them. Upcoming balance patch is first of 3 big patches which i found needed so thats why i wanted to talk about cc which could probly be second big balance patch coming in few months since cc will outperform now because its powercreeped aswell (cc will be old but new thing to spam since there is too many of cc ingame left and less stunbreak+stability) and there is no diversity if you must pick 3 stunbreaks because every cc is long lasting which means its made for stunlock and there is no midline which is interupt style (1/4s daze).

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@CroTiger.7819 said:

I didnt read it all becouse there is only so much stupid I can handle at once.1 Power block nerf would kill it, its not being played now, removing weakness just kills it, expecially since I bet the bug will still remain.2 Gs 5 has a knockback for a kitten reason, to create distance or make combos with the weapon itself, or BOTH.3 LB ranger has knockbow for a reason too, to combo with rapid fire, to create distance for stronger autos, and to allow some sort of defence when some monkey jumps on you.you have no clue what your changes would do to the weapons. it fundamentally kitten with the weapons design.there is a reason why RANGED weapons have knockbacksthere is a reason why class with pulsing fields and traps has PULLmaybe go ahead and remove necro pull from GS and turn it into fear, im sure every reaper will be happy that his targets runs from him when he tries to melee them instead of being pulled, SUPER designer BTW

Man your ignorance is beyond stupid... while im giving concept and examples of posible ways to change some skills so it fits unique proffesion hard cc you read most trivial part of post and make your comment. You are great at avoiding the main idea which is interupt playtyle instead everything being hard cc. Suggesting power block to keep weaknes just because its bugged is very stupid indeed. But i don t wanna focus on small things because this is idea on spliting CC not on balance skill suggestions (those are just example which i try to give to fit idea of unique proffesion cc). Just because u misread everything ill explain those details for you because yes you somehow managed to see only trivial things. Gs 5 pull on reaper acts as fear from backwards. Yes classes like guardian and aoe skills need pull so i already said guardian should only have pull. Mesmer gs 5 can gain more benefit from being slow+blind and daze 1/4 than knockback (even chaning autoattack skill since most mesmers spike from close range and there is misconception already). Ranger lb4 cripple would change knockback since you should not use lb in malee (especially when we have weapon swap ingam) and if you didn t know snare is also utility of ranged proffesions, so giving it good dmg with cripple on 2 counts would be better (teleports and many gap closers are part of other discussion, they are op and easly accesible no matter of lb 4 knockback). Gap closers are problem on its own and they are easly deleting distance between malee and range which takes of advantage from ranged classes just by using instant port or warior evade mobility skills for example. So those things have to be done aswell but i don t see point of writing it all down since this is discussion based on having CC sorted out better so it bring new interupt playstyle while still keeping hard cc (even pushing it so each class have unique hard cc while they share only daze as universall cc which is part of interupt playstyle). I writed it many times but seems like ppl here on forum don t wanna skilfull game and you are perfect example. Now go cry because you can t use dodge 2 times and than distortion after scepter 2 and than signet refresh distiortion for new chain. If you want to critic or comment than focus on main idea of post which sounds like: interupts will have no worth still to be played as primary role of ranger and mesmer proffesion because of xxxxxx or i think spliting hard cc for proffession unique will rq big effort to implement this late ingame or any other reason. Even i don t like idea of having interupt and i like more to stun or get stuned for atleast 1 sec with every cc so i can eat spam or spam my cc to stunlock and never push timing forward. But pls better don t comment if you want to talk about trivial things since this should be discussion for CC overlook (which should be as big as this upcoming balance). Than we should have last big balance which focus on mobility: too many gap closers... easy map advantage of some classes...easy acces to remove snares for some classes making it almost uselles to snare them. Upcoming balance patch is first of 3 big patches which i found needed so thats why i wanted to talk about cc which could probly be second big balance patch coming in few months since cc will outperform now because its powercreeped aswell and there is no diversity if you must pick 3 stunbreaks because every cc is long lasting which means its made for stunlock and there is no midline which is interupt (1/4s daze).

What you posted made me laugh to tears.You say you want to make interruption playstyle and you advocate to nerf Daze mantra ( rupt tool ) and Power Block.This is ass backwards if you ask me.There is no rupt playstyle becouse there is no reward, Warrior doesnt give a crap that you interupt his F1 becouse he will reset it with F2 and do it again.The only skills worth interupting are heals and some expecially hard hitting CC like PLB, but 80%+ builds have uninteruptable heals and covers them with stab.Mirage with dodge.Thief uninteruptableWarrior has signetHolo stealths or stabsGuard uses mantraAnd the only class that you can actually lock down is a necro.You are mistaking the stars reflected in a pond at night for those in the sky my man. You want to breake things that work properly in the name of something that will never work.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

What you posted made me laugh to tears.You say you want to make interruption playstyle and you advocate to nerf Daze mantra ( rupt tool ) and Power Block.This is kitten backwards if you ask me.There is no rupt playstyle becouse there is no reward, Warrior doesnt give a kitten that you interupt his F1 becouse he will reset it with F2 and do it again.The only skills worth interupting are heals and some expecially hard hitting CC like PLB, but 80%+ builds have uninteruptable heals and covers them with stab.Mirage with dodge.Thief uninteruptableWarrior has signetHolo stealths or stabsGuard uses mantraAnd the only class that you can actually lock down is a necro.You are mistaking the stars reflected in a pond at night for those in the sky my man. You want to breake things that work properly in the name of something that will never work.

Yes and you are here to focus on trivial things again as removing weaknes from powerblock and 1/4 cast time on mantra...but thats because you are used to op things to cast too much things at once (idc if mantra stays same between but 1/4 cast time is still tool for active interupt because you can push it for 3/4 cast time rupts with good reflexes or above and for short cast time skills you still have hard cc (stun if you mesmer) to stunlock if needed. I gave whole idea for ranger building that style for shortbow and don t mind if mesmer keep old powerblock and mantra of distraction thats not point of discussion. But yea you see mostly mesmer and who the fck gives care for ranger shortbow when even anet doesn t care for it. Thiefs should keep ability for evade heal so its not interuptable and they should be squishiest and fastest proffesion ingame but they should get shave on stealth (stealth overall needs shave and mesmer is part of that too) and more punish for jumping in and out (sword 2 example). Your last sentence is funny and is very random since even anet knows there is more things to balance and i guarantee you cc will be one of them. If you don t like idea of interupts replacing most of hard cc skills than its your personal choice but i still think its better to get interupted than hard cc everytime. Number of hard cc (there is no even number because every cc is lasting for 1sec+) is not problem for duels but it is in teamfight where cc is usually spamed. Stability is reduced and number of stunbreaks aswell (this means fb will be vunerable for interupts aswell as ele and holowsmith if you read about upcoming balance patch notes), so enjoy having 3 stunbreaks as must killing all utility for stunbreak picks. Btw i made few of different teambuilds which was played in gw1 HA and GVG and right now am top 100 with shortbow ranger (condi soulbeast) so i know what im talking about and its not false. If you want keep talking this way than go somewhere else because im not interested in trivial discussion.

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@CroTiger.7819 said:

What you posted made me laugh to tears.You say you want to make interruption playstyle and you advocate to nerf Daze mantra ( rupt tool ) and Power Block.This is kitten backwards if you ask me.There is no rupt playstyle becouse there is no reward, Warrior doesnt give a kitten that you interupt his F1 becouse he will reset it with F2 and do it again.The only skills worth interupting are heals and some expecially hard hitting CC like PLB, but 80%+ builds have uninteruptable heals and covers them with stab.Mirage with dodge.Thief uninteruptableWarrior has signetHolo stealths or stabsGuard uses mantraAnd the only class that you can actually lock down is a necro.You are mistaking the stars reflected in a pond at night for those in the sky my man. You want to breake things that work properly in the name of something that will never work.

Yes and you are here to focus on trivial things again as removing weaknes from powerblock and 1/4 cast time on mantra...but thats because you are used to op things to cast too much things at once (idc if mantra stays same between but 1/4 cast time is still tool for active interupt because you can push it for 3/4 cast time rupts with good reflexes or above and for short cast time skills you still have hard cc (stun if you mesmer) to stunlock if needed. I gave whole idea for ranger building that style for shortbow and don t mind if mesmer keep old powerblock and mantra of distraction thats not point of discussion. But yea you see mostly mesmer and who the kitten gives care for ranger shortbow when even anet doesn t care for it. Thiefs should keep ability for evade heal so its not interuptable and they should be squishiest and fastest proffesion ingame but they should get shave on stealth (stealth overall needs shave and mesmer is part of that too) and more punish for jumping in and out (sword 2 example). Your last sentence is funny and is very random since even anet knows there is more things to balance and i guarantee you cc will be one of them. If you don t like idea of interupts replacing most of hard cc skills than its your personal choice but i still think its better to get interupted than hard cc everytime. Number of hard cc (there is no even number because every cc is lasting for 1sec+) is not problem for duels but it is in teamfight where cc is usually spamed. Stability is reduced and number of stunbreaks aswell (this means fb will be vunerable for interupts aswell as ele and holowsmith if you read about upcoming balance patch notes), so enjoy having 3 stunbreaks as must killing all utility for stunbreak picks. Btw i made few of different teambuilds which was played in gw1 HA and GVG and right now am top 100 with shortbow ranger (condi soulbeast) so i know what im talking about and its not false. If you want keep talking this way than go somewhere else because im not interested in trivial discussion.

just stop, nobody even bother to comment on this post, nobody has the energy to even have this conversation.And im losing energy too. You are breaking entire weapon sets and entire deigns around them in a 1 to milion chance your immaginary interupt utopia will emerge.Its not worth the effort to take daze mantra and interup becouse there is almost nothing worth interupting and its unreliable.If there is more then 2 people using daze mantra im not so sure that nerfing it will make more people use it.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

just stop, nobody even bother to comment on this post, nobody has the energy to even have this conversation.And im losing energy too. You are breaking entire weapon sets and entire deigns around them in a 1 to milion chance your immaginary interupt utopia will emerge.Its not worth the effort to take daze mantra and interup becouse there is almost nothing worth interupting and its unreliable.If there is more then 2 people using daze mantra im not so sure that nerfing it will make more people use it.

Yes its hard topic i just came from work and was indeed very hard to answer your comment in right manner but atleast you understand its hard topic. Im not destroying weapon sets its not my intetion i just give idea on redisign of ranger shortbow and CC in general and i don t rly care for mesmer mantra nerfs and pb trait loosing weakness thats not the intention at all so im sry for that. I only wanted to push idea of having CC splits so 80% of them are used for interupts (some are unblockable aswell) and 20% stays as hard cc (suggestion on spliting it for proffesion unique is maybe too ambitious at this point i can agree). Mesmer and ranger was working as interupt duo midline in original game and thats where this idea comes from. Seeing balance update notes makes me happy because of right direction with spam and dmg reduce but some things will still need work and i think its CC which should get redisign. Thats where i see potential for interupts replacing most of hard cc or even other utilities replacing hard cc in some cases could work now. Anyway cheers sry for too much informations on something that doesn t exist(it existed in original guild wars and was best part for many players) but thats why its called suggestion and its definitly high energy cost if it ever comes true. We will see when this balance hits and we will be more able to judge how cc performs so its not much point to further discuss it now. Anyway thanks for feedback and time.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"CroTiger.7819" said:
  1. mesmer: It mostly stays the same but greatsword 5 now daze 1/4 sec with aoe blind. Chrono elite well now stuns only and deals dmg on end if target didn t breaked stun and moved out. Mantra of distraction is 2 counts 1/4 daze with 1/4 cast time to be handy for interupts. Power block stays the same and removes weaknes part of it because 20sec recharge added on interupted skills with dmg should be enough. Staff chaos storm now don t daze and its now on staff 3 which is now 1/4 sec cast time fast daze 1/4 second aswell and it procs additional phantasmal (already existing one) if you interupted skill.Very bad changes.

GS5 shouldn't be a daze, it should create a distance between the mesmer and the foe so that it synergies with the autoattack.That's just designing by flavor rather than holistic principles. That said, there's plenty of ways to make Mesmer GS5 interesting without it forcing a knock-back on someone:

[illusionary Wave] (5)

! Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s! Daze, cripple and blind foes in front of you with a wave of illusionary magic. If you strike a foe with this attack, teleport to a random, nearby location and gain superspeed.! Number of targets: 5! Damage: (0.01)! Daze: ¼s! Crippled (1½s): -50% Movement Speed! Blindness (1½s): Next outgoing attack misses.! Superspeed (4s): Movement Speed is greatly increased.! Breaks Enemy Targeting! Maximum Count: 2! Count Recharge: 35s! Range: 450!* Unblockable

! This teleportation effect functions similarly to the one featured in the skill [illusionary Ambush], except rather than the distance from target being a maximum of 1200 range units, it is instead 450 range units. In the case of striking multiple targets at once with this skill, only a single one is selected and used as the basis for the "random, nearby location" teleport.

And that's really just one example of how Mesmer GS5 could be re-worked into a flexible, "space-maker" skill without it being forced to be a hard CC.

"Gravity" theme needs to apply launch and knockdown.That's another flavor meme. "Theme" shouldn't be the thing by which classes are designed and function; they should function based on how they bring unique mechanics into an otherwise independent ecosystem of interactions. There's zero reason why Chrono Gravity Well can't be redesigned to serve a purpose without necessarily floating targets or knocking them down. Alternatively, since none of this will ever happen anyway, there's always the legitimate option of just nuking certain skills out of existence or compressing several skills into single abilities. Something like Gravity Well is probably ripe for culling considering how, at its core, it's really just another, super-generic stun ability that does nothing unique (oh, wow, ANOTHER skill that forces people to pop a stun-break; SUPER INTERESTING, particularly since it casts from long range and has basically no travel time or real cue).

Mantra charges can't have a cast time.Yet another flavor meme. Anything can have a cast-time. If anything, everything should have a cast-time if there are no real resources to govern any given player's ability to spam.

Reducing already low sustain in Domination by nerfing weakness is a VERY bad idea.Lmao, nobody takes Domination and bets on weakness being the thing that saves them on a consistent basis. It's for the one-shot memes. If anyone running that build is caught (only after first blowing their number of get-out-of-jail-free cards), they're just going to accept death.

AoE CC on Chaos Storm is very valuable and fits staff's role: defensive aoe (bounces on autoattacks) weapon.

Problem with mesmer is, it has nearly zero teamfight presence. If you are going to make mesmer a ccbot teamfighter (like the current warrior) you need to buff teamfight potential and reduce 1v1 - 2v2 potential.

What does "team-fight presence" even really mean outside of "something that can sit on a point and stall for time with relative impunity" anyway? How are most team-fights not just a collection of twitchy 1v1s that orbit around some hump-on-a-rock roadblock sitting on a point just waiting to pop cooldowns in the presence of someone's burst? You even throw out "2v2 potential" as if you don't believe that a 2v2 isn't going to be a massive investment when it comes to team and map-wide resources. How does "zero teamfight presence" mean anything detrimental if the class or build in question can easily and consistently swing 1v1s or 2v2s in a game mode which is only scaled up to 5v5 fighting over 3 point-generating nodes??? If anything, being able to delete classes and force player rotations just by EXISTING in any given place at any given time, sounds like it's far beyond anything that "team-fight presence" brings to the table. Sounds more like "duelists" are the things that end up forcing rotations into team-fights rather than team-fights being something around which "duelists" are forced to play (by the way "duelist" is just a made-up word for "generic DPS boi seen in literally every other third-person, tab-target RPG" that GW2 players invented in order to cope with how this role-playing game has basically no real roles).

Also, GW1 players have this weird idea that GW2 mesmer should be similar to GW1 mesmer. However, as I stated above, mesmer is a duelist not a teamfighter.Every class in GW2 is a duelist; not a teamfighter. That's why GW2's combat ends up being so bland and over-reliant on 1v1/2v2 hard-counter match-ups. A game gains depth by making classes as parts of a whole rather than a bunch of one-man armies with generic playstyles vying for that one patch release that puts one class above another.

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@"Swagg.9236" said:[illusionary Wave] (5)

! Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s! Daze, cripple and blind foes in front of you with a wave of illusionary magic. If you strike a foe with this attack, teleport to a random, nearby location and gain superspeed.!
Number of targets: 5!
Damage: (0.01)!
Daze: ¼s!
Crippled (1½s): -50% Movement Speed!
Blindness (1½s): Next outgoing attack misses.!
Superspeed (4s): Movement Speed is greatly increased.!
Breaks Enemy Targeting!
Maximum Count: 2!
Count Recharge: 35s!
Range: 450!* Unblockable

Of course you can design it in 1 million different ways. Then this opens up a new question: Why?

That's another flavor meme. "Theme" shouldn't be the thing by which classes are designed and function; they should function based on how they bring unique mechanics into an otherwise independent ecosystem of interactions.Then why do we even have classes?

There's zero reason why Chrono Gravity Well can't be redesigned to serve a purpose without necessarily floating targets or knocking them down.Yes but again, why? Why bother?

oh, wow, ANOTHER skill that forces people to pop a stun-break; SUPER INTERESTING, particularly since it casts from long range and has basically no travel time or real cue.Look for black trails on the mesmer's hands.

Mantra charges can't have a cast time.Yet another flavor meme. Anything can have a cast-time. If anything, everything
should
have a cast-time if there are no real resources to govern any given player's ability to spam.All of FB and Mesmer mantras are "long cast time preparing, instant cast ammo".

Reducing already low sustain in Domination by nerfing weakness is a VERY bad idea.Lmao, nobody takes Domination and bets on weakness being the thing that saves them on a consistent basis. It's for the one-shot memes. If anyone running that build is caught (only after first blowing their number of get-out-of-jail-free cards), they're just going to accept death.Power shatter was a thing way before specialization update.Currently it is in a bad position but totally killing it is unnecessary.

What does "team-fight presence" even really mean outside of "something that can sit on a point and stall for time with relative impunity" anyway?

A good TFer should be able to:1) Either deal damage, support your team, or stunlock enemies.2) Kite the node (not just stand on it) or tank the node (scrapper and water weaver)3) Have good area denial attacks.

Revenant, Guardian, Necro, Engineer and Elementalist can do all 3 depending on the build.

Warrior and Thief can do 2, again depending on the build.

Ranger and Mesmer can only do the 2nd one.

How are most team-fights not just a collection of 1v1sClearly they are not. You focus targets, stand near your team etc

I won't bother replying again though.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Swagg.9236" said:
[illusionary Wave] (5)

! Activation: ½s / Recharge: 10s! Daze, cripple and blind foes in front of you with a wave of illusionary magic. If you strike a foe with this attack, teleport to a random, nearby location and gain superspeed.!
Number of targets: 5!
Damage: (0.01)!
Daze: ¼s!
Crippled (1½s): -50% Movement Speed!
Blindness (1½s): Next outgoing attack misses.!
Superspeed (4s): Movement Speed is greatly increased.!
Breaks Enemy Targeting!
Maximum Count: 2!
Count Recharge: 35s!
Range: 450!* Unblockable

Of course you can design it in 1 million different ways. Then this opens up a new question: Why?

Because the current one is boring and nobody enjoys playing around mechanics that, when they function according to description, prevent people from playing the game.

That's another flavor meme. "Theme" shouldn't be the thing by which classes are designed and function; they should function based on how they bring unique mechanics into an otherwise independent ecosystem of interactions.Then why do we even have classes?

Considering how shallow GW2 is, that is a very, very good question.

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