One dodge — Guild Wars 2 Forums

One dodge

Magolith.9412Magolith.9412 Member ✭✭✭

It's pretty rough.

YouTube | [WS] Mesmer Mag [Fort Aspenwood]

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Comments

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yep i've retired the mesmer i'm not playing core.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

  • Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭✭

    They should've removed Infinite horizon instead. Its been the problem with mirage since the get go. Its a terrible design that's been carrying bad players for years now. RIP mirage.

  • I love IH but i think at this point I'd give it up to have my other dodge back

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    It can still be "ok-ish" in wvw. I tried using energy sigils, energy (dodge)food, infiltration runes and a solid patience about how bad mesmer design is nowadays, and it was nearly bearable.

    Bring glamour mesmer back.

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    this nerf is brutal. I played a lot yesterday. But i'm gonna do what I always do. I stick with my main thru the good and thru the bad. but this is def the biggest nerf in the entire patch notes.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    If mirage gets only one dodge now, they should really change how we gain back endurance on the minor master nomads endurance.

  • @MesmerizedNYC.2479 said:

    @BlackyWarsX.5384 said:
    I get trade offs for elite specs, but taking one dodge from an elite spec which mechanics rely on dodges seems... not very well thought out.

    Perfectly said. For ambush Mirages to be of any use, you now need to food and gear up everything to get that endurance fill back - which limits pretty much any other play style for Mirage. The transition from PvE to WVW/PVP is like hitting a brick wall. What's amazing me is the low volume of angst about this. (Minding its still one-day post patch.) Maybe enough Mirage mains have quit or moved on to care to complain.

    You'll find me on TC this week tweaking and trying to make this work.

    Well I know many mesmers have left over the last year. I can think of a multiple friends in the 30-35k+ AP range that used to main chrono and dabble in mirage that have either left or converted to people who login a few times a month to see what is up. Also the game seems to have a fairly large number of players who started in the last 2 years or so who have no understanding of Mirage and how IH, mirage cloak and ambushes work. They just know they don't like getting killed by things they dont understand or if they play mirage they just know when they dodge they deal damage and use IH cause people told them to and never looked back. TBH I think very few people have bothered to understand it. I mean heck it seems like the person doing balance probably doesn't understand it.

  • RIP Condi mirage

    I communicate through a translator

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 26, 2020

    lol, I read the title and now I've got this kitten song stuck in my head:
    "I need a one dodge, Got a Hennessy in my hand, One more time 'fore I go, Higher powers taking a hold on me."

    My ears, how are you! | Staff | Greatsword

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    Im not after sitting and thinking about it all night. > @flog.3485 said:

    If mirage gets only one dodge now, they should really change how we gain back endurance on the minor master nomads endurance.

    No For that wouldnt help. That would only make keep reinforcing bad design changes. The one dodge was just a bad idea. Nothing should be done to fix it. It should just be undone. Going back to 2 dodge and adjusting ambush damage is what needs to be done. Anet was just very lazy and TBH seems to have wanted to try and kill of Mirage. I think its a bad idea to even entertain the idea that its somehow "workable"

    After reading the post you linked about Bravan, I do think you are now making a pretty compelling case.
    So how do you adjust ambush damages exactly ?
    Other than that, maybe it would be a bit more intelligent to limit the number of clones a mirage could summon by making it impossible to get clones out of phantasms.

  • @flog.3485 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    Im not after sitting and thinking about it all night. > @flog.3485 said:

    If mirage gets only one dodge now, they should really change how we gain back endurance on the minor master nomads endurance.

    No For that wouldnt help. That would only make keep reinforcing bad design changes. The one dodge was just a bad idea. Nothing should be done to fix it. It should just be undone. Going back to 2 dodge and adjusting ambush damage is what needs to be done. Anet was just very lazy and TBH seems to have wanted to try and kill of Mirage. I think its a bad idea to even entertain the idea that its somehow "workable"

    After reading the post you linked about Bravan, I do think you are now making a pretty compelling case.
    So how do you adjust ambush damages exactly ?
    Other than that, maybe it would be a bit more intelligent to limit the number of clones a mirage could summon by making it impossible to get clones out of phantasms.

    I think the damage could be adjusted like any other damage. You may not be aware but they have nerfed damage and reduced condi stacks, etc on Ambush skills many times in the past. Mirage isn't what it once was even before the latest one dodge change. Anyway, I would think the best to scale and balance ambush damage would be to look at how it scales per clone in the same way u would look at a shatter, accept that ambush damage is weapon specific so one would also want to look at each weapon and the traits it might have synergy with then look at making changes to the ambush damage or traits.

    Changes to traits outside Mirage (core spec) would ideally take core into consideration to keep core viable as an option to either espec. That is what I would see as actual balance. Meaning you could choose to play any of the 3 and have some kinda functional synergy in each game mode.

  • campos.6520campos.6520 Member
    edited February 26, 2020

    It may be a dumb question, but, can someone please explain me what was SO unbalanced about Mirages having 2 dodges that was needed to reduce to 1? Also, what's the point of reducing dodge if the elite spec (ambush skills) totally relies on the dodge to give enough damage??? Like, ambush skills needs for nothing now, because I shouldn't use my dodge to use the ambush skill...I need the dodge only to dodge something now. Like, seriously, can someone tell me? Meanwhile, thief spec has 3 dodges, lots of evades (let's call it Mesmer's distortions) and invisbility (Mesmer does have it as well). Mesmer changed the dodges, but thieves no.

  • @Moradorin.6217

    By the way, just some minutes ago I was playing my usual roaming. It was already 2x1, hard fight, 1 dodge. Then, a cannon guy hit me and I died. Imagine that in zergs. Poor mesmers hit by cannons and a lot of aoe damages. 1 dodge still. I'm full berserker...a cannon hits me almost 50% of my health bar. To be honest, it seems Anet just makes the patches, but they dont actually play it as we real players do.

  • Crackmonster.2790Crackmonster.2790 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 27, 2020

    Mesmer once again getting shafted long and deep. Everyone roll cancer chaos staff tank builds with speed runes and while you can't really kill anything, nothing can really kill you when you are running and everyone get frustrated fighting you. We gotta get that hate somehow. And then as soon as they stop chasing you, you start chasing them and chipping away with the 1200 staff tickle.

    Oh wait, mesmer got 0.75second dodge every 6-8 seconds but no dodge rolls like others. Uhhh so overpowered they basically kill people instant with 1 dodge press too yes, that's what the berserkers with 0 condi clean and not avoiding your hits say. It's ridiculous when often power builds deal more damage per move and it's instant and yet the condi gets the hate despite there being a thing called cleanses which can even deny the damage type. You need to keep a dodge for defense at the right moment if you don't wanna use all your utility to give some type of way to react to enemy attacks, but only have 1 dodge and our damage tied to them just means we are so easy controlled, we can be forced to use our dodges at the times where they decide and we don't have the power to attack and put pressure at our initiative without leaving us completely vulnerable. This is total bad, it's undermining everything mirage is about.

    And the devs don't speak on the mirage, better to kill it gut and let it rot some. I got a suggestion for them maybe they should mount its cadavar on a pole(if you know what i mean) to serve as a warning for other speccs that they shouldn't have too much fun - or else!

    We don't want the same kitten bone u always throwing us. Make the super clunky, mechanically challenged and unstable specc chrono perform well in ideal raids. This won't make us forget everything else, most mesmer don't play for the pve raid chrono.

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @campos.6520 said:
    It may be a dumb question, but, can someone please explain me what was SO unbalanced about Mirages having 2 dodges that was needed to reduce to 1? Also, what's the point of reducing dodge if the elite spec (ambush skills) totally relies on the dodge to give enough damage??? Like, ambush skills needs for nothing now, because I shouldn't use my dodge to use the ambush skill...I need the dodge only to dodge something now. Like, seriously, can someone tell me? Meanwhile, thief spec has 3 dodges, lots of evades (let's call it Mesmer's distortions) and invisbility (Mesmer does have it as well). Mesmer changed the dodges, but thieves no.

    what logic do you seek?
    people cried about CI, removed from the game
    they cried about clones, scept 2 staff 3 nerfed.
    they cry about condi, condi damage nerfed by about 70%
    they cried about "perma dodging mesmer" scept 2 cd up by 50%, axe 3 up by 50% -50 endurance.
    that had nothing to do with balance, they wanted to remove mirage from viability

    This is pretty much the timeline with nerfs missing.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @campos.6520 said:
    It may be a dumb question, but, can someone please explain me what was SO unbalanced about Mirages having 2 dodges that was needed to reduce to 1? Also, what's the point of reducing dodge if the elite spec (ambush skills) totally relies on the dodge to give enough damage??? Like, ambush skills needs for nothing now, because I shouldn't use my dodge to use the ambush skill...I need the dodge only to dodge something now. Like, seriously, can someone tell me? Meanwhile, thief spec has 3 dodges, lots of evades (let's call it Mesmer's distortions) and invisbility (Mesmer does have it as well). Mesmer changed the dodges, but thieves no.

    what logic do you seek?
    people cried about CI, removed from the game
    they cried about clones, scept 2 staff 3 nerfed.
    they cry about condi, condi damage nerfed by about 70%
    they cried about "perma dodging mesmer" scept 2 cd up by 50%, axe 3 up by 50% -50 endurance.
    that had nothing to do with balance, they wanted to remove mirage from viability

    This is pretty much the timeline with nerfs missing.

    ye didnt mention QQ mantras OP mantras nerfed.
    QQ chaos storm OP nerfed.
    QQ too much passive damage, staff ambush nerfed by 50%

  • this post is spot on. its becoming ever more clear that the nerfs to mes. , especially in the last 2-ish yrs, are not well thought out, and the lack of tool tip updates (they just updated jaunt to show 2 instead of 3 recently) Are all good examples of the devs just trying to calm the QQ down from "main stream" classes. What other class has been reduced to one dodge?? none. WvW is 80% heavy. So Mesmer is right where they want it now, Basically unplayable. that's why they have not "fixed" crono. and now they wont undo mirage dodge. There has always been good player feedback on what they could do to make things better. but they just cut skills by 50% and call it "good". No thought, and taking the lazy way out. better to keep the masses happy and kill Mesmer. the sad thing is even if every Mesmer left the game, there are so few left it would not even budge their numbers. when have you ever been run over by a Mesmer/light class zerg? Never....The meta is go-heavy-or-go-home

  • hayabusafmw.9370hayabusafmw.9370 Member ✭✭
    edited February 27, 2020

    sorry second dodge comes after 900 cooldown and you will have to unlock it in the reward track for 800g.

  • I already moved my legendary armor set to a necro. My mesmer is gone.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    I already moved my legendary armor set to a necro. My mesmer is gone.

    Honestly I might do that for my ele or something. Lol

    I feel like the only thing I ever play in pve anymore is power chrono anyway.

  • @Moradorin.6217 said:
    I already moved my legendary armor set to a necro. My mesmer is gone.

    :'(

  • Ansau.7326Ansau.7326 Member ✭✭✭

    As expected, anet killed mesmer entire profession with this patch.
    Mirage feels you're a lesser race.
    Chrono is clunky and mechanically annoying enough to the point where viability is no longer a topic. The elite is just too troublesome and stupidly overcomplicated to be fun to play.
    And core has suffered so many nerfs over the years in the failed attempt to balance elites, that even without latest patch nerf it would still be underpowered in current situation.

    Hesitating if definitely moving to rev and play broken-than-previous-condi-mirage condi builds there, or simply moving on from this game...

    RIP Chrono 10/2015 - 07/2019
    RIP Mirage 07/2017 - 02/2020

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    for all its worth I dont think mirage would be any good with 2 dodges.
    its lost all its damage, pistol 4 does 2k bleed. to anyone reading it its as much as 4s cd mark from necro.
    Unless some power mirage becomes good mirage wouldnt be played with 2 dodges by anything other then die hard mesmers anyways.

    You just described me. I always liked the power mirage, because I like the play style. The risk/reward was worth it to me, because it was fun. I am just an average player, who roams alone and is looking to engage and be engaged. I do not win all my fights, am prone to stupid mistakes, and sometimes just totally screw up a fight. But I always wanted to come back for more, because I felt that the Mirage profession would reward me when I learned something and got better, got more consistent.

    So for me, two dodges does make a difference to a Mirage in WvW.

    • It is an extra clone for shattering, one more ambush skill, one more trigger of IH, hence more dps.
    • It is a chance to keep fighting, and not resign.
    • It is a double-dodge, to get through a gate that has been all marked up.
    • It is two sword leaps, to try a catch a fleeing foe, or to get away from one.

    The loss of overall damage is fairly substantial, and hampers what is supposed to be a burst/aversion class, but the loss of the second dodge did it for me. It is just an ugly, slow, cumbersome play style now that cannot match the gap opening/closing of other professions. Ones we used to be able to match up with. Outnumbered fighting? It got that much harder. To the bold, goes the nerfs.

    At it's inception, we had two dodges, longer super speed and three Jaunts. Today we do not, we are down a dodge and a Jaunt, with less super speed. Did Anet fail to calculate just how good the class would be? Because now it feels like Anet is saying Mirage was a mistake. Two for two Anet, on the mesmer elites.

    Mesmer is no longer my main. If Anet decides to revert this change, I would come back in a heart beat. Without, it is just a bridge too far. To harken back to an old GW2 official forum meme, I am falling down the leaderboards, my wife has left me. All is vain.

    If anyone has any suggestions for a new profession to main in WvW roaming, I am all ears. I ran some power DE last night, tonight it will be Engi for reset.

    twododges #makemiragegreatagain

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 29, 2020

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    My 2 cents on the patch:
    WvW Mirage is still very much viable and not much has changed, because of endurance food.
    PvP Mirage just got promoted to most zergable target. You remember that good old "train the scourge" moto? That's us now.

    Yep. I can't speak for pvp, but mirage certainly still solid in wvw, though a little clunkier than one would hope.

    I think the two things in wvw keeping things going are food and sigils (both energy at 50 and cleansing at 3 conditions).

    Despite the nerf I've actually enjoyed play time after the patch more than before, because of the reduced spam and general slower more tactical pace of combat.

    My ears, how are you! | Staff | Greatsword

  • @Curunen.8729 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    My 2 cents on the patch:
    WvW Mirage is still very much viable and not much has changed, because of endurance food.
    PvP Mirage just got promoted to most zergable target. You remember that good old "train the scourge" moto? That's us now.

    Yep. I can't speak for pvp, but mirage certainly still solid in wvw, though a little clunkier than one would hope.

    I think the two things in wvw keeping things going are food and sigils (both energy at 50 and cleansing at 3 conditions).

    Despite the nerf I've actually enjoyed play time after the patch more than before, because of the reduced spam and general slower more tactical pace of combat.

    I have no idea why you would take Mirage at this point over Core Mesmer. Seems like you are just gimping yourself.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    My 2 cents on the patch:
    WvW Mirage is still very much viable and not much has changed, because of endurance food.
    PvP Mirage just got promoted to most zergable target. You remember that good old "train the scourge" moto? That's us now.

    Yep. I can't speak for pvp, but mirage certainly still solid in wvw, though a little clunkier than one would hope.

    I think the two things in wvw keeping things going are food and sigils (both energy at 50 and cleansing at 3 conditions).

    Despite the nerf I've actually enjoyed play time after the patch more than before, because of the reduced spam and general slower more tactical pace of combat.

    I have no idea why you would take Mirage at this point over Core Mesmer. Seems like you are just gimping yourself.

    /shrug, because I like the aesthetics enough to stick with it?

    Obviously need many more hours play to get a good range of experience, but so far I have no reason to switch.

    My ears, how are you! | Staff | Greatsword

  • @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    My 2 cents on the patch:
    WvW Mirage is still very much viable and not much has changed, because of endurance food.
    PvP Mirage just got promoted to most zergable target. You remember that good old "train the scourge" moto? That's us now.

    Yep. I can't speak for pvp, but mirage certainly still solid in wvw, though a little clunkier than one would hope.

    I think the two things in wvw keeping things going are food and sigils (both energy at 50 and cleansing at 3 conditions).

    Despite the nerf I've actually enjoyed play time after the patch more than before, because of the reduced spam and general slower more tactical pace of combat.

    I have no idea why you would take Mirage at this point over Core Mesmer. Seems like you are just gimping yourself.

    /shrug, because I like the aesthetics enough to stick with it?

    Obviously need many more hours play to get a good range of experience, but so far I have no reason to switch.

    Ok, but so far from what I can see everyone will continue to complain and say u need need nerfs and mirage is low skill trash no matter how much work you put into it when you have success w it anyway . So I personally just dont understand the motive.

  • Seems like the best thing anyone can do for Mesmer/Mirge/Chrono is to just retire the class totally.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    Seems like the best thing anyone can do for Mesmer/Mirge/Chrono is to just retire the class totally.

    Just retire gw2. BDO is free on steam (haven't tried it yet but it is on my library now)

    \o/ im there already

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2020

    I won't miss the staff camper while clones do all the work gameplay, say what you want..it was easy peazy gameplay with maximum reward and every one and their mother unable to win the normal way would do the same thing over and over : switch to condi mirage to win duels and now you're trying to tell me those individuals capable of winning only on condi mirages and nothing else( they could not even run power shatter without being killed)....were in truth skilled individuals...give me a break already!

    P.S The playerbase would campaign for the removal of Infinite horizon if the dodge drawback get reverted

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2020

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    I won't miss the staff camper while clones do all the work gameplay, say what you want..it was easy peazy gameplay with maximum reward and every one and their mother unable to win the normal way would do the same thing over and over : switch to condi mirage to win duels and now you're trying to tell me those individuals capable of winning only on condi mirages and nothing else( they could not even run power shatter without being killed)....were in truth skilled individuals...give me a break already!

    P.S The playerbase would campaign for the removal of Infinite horizon if the dodge drawback get reverted

    1) Damage ouput of this type of build take like 10 to 15 sec to setup...
    2) We got this gameplay because people whine against damage on shatter.
    3) Every mirages plat+ can play every mesmers builds should it be power/condi/trolling builds.

    But yeah it's sad to have to get focused/bursted versus opponent with better mobility/gap closer and who spam aoe.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    Seems like the best thing anyone can do for Mesmer/Mirge/Chrono is to just retire the class totally.

    Just retire gw2. BDO is free on steam (haven't tried it yet but it is on my library now)

    \o/ im there already

    Nice tip !

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    Seems like the best thing anyone can do for Mesmer/Mirge/Chrono is to just retire the class totally.

    Just retire gw2. BDO is free on steam (haven't tried it yet but it is on my library now)

    \o/ im there already

    Made one of the lolis with a huge boomerang.
    Played for about 10min, couldn't understand what was going on xD.
    Will try again when I've more time.

    The degenerate