Is toxicity in Fractals and Raids even worst now ? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Is toxicity in Fractals and Raids even worst now ?

Hello there o/, I've been doing my daily fractals and raids every week for some time now (several years in fact), and kitten, the more time goes by the more I feel like the game is a den of COD kids ........... who have a superiority complex !

Today I think it's the best example: a BS arrives to complete the fractal group, we pass the 100 and 99 Cm without problems, then we chain the T4s as easily, and then, suddenly, before doing the recommended fractals, he starts insulting the whole team, asking all the DPS to hang themselves, the Alac to learn how to play, and of course claims to be the best of all, then leaves. While the run couldn't be smoother....

Examples like that, I get them every day. The community has never been great at high level ok, but there's clearly a problem here, isn't it?

Another example for the Raids, I'm assisting a friend for his training group (too few of these groups by the way but that's another debate), beginners arrived, we were preparing wing 4, they fail Cairn once, twice, three times, going further and further each time (they were learning fast :D ) then one of them had to leave, to be replaced .... by a guy who joins a training group with 300+Li + 200 Kp and legendary armor and ORDERS people to succeed the first time otherwise he leaves and reports us (the reason ? I still don't know it x) ). The squad fails at about 20%, and then the guy goes into an absolute fury, asking everyone to die, uninstall the game, threatens to kill the first one who dared to answer him, then claims that he wrote down our names to forbid us the entry to the "biggest guilds in the game" before leaving xD

I might as well say that I think it's very funny, but at the time I realized what the community is becoming.... Tell me, i hope it is not like that every day for you too guys ?

Comments

  • Unfortunatly it is my (almost) everyday experience :/. But sometimes it is just a guy who leaves after telling the team is garbage, (not threatening the whole team you know), or ragequits after they missed one mecanic, in raids its like that in EVERY group i go with, each time, one guys goes into fury because he thinks one the DPS or one of the supprot is not doing great according to his standards. This is why im asking, if im juust VERY unlucky, or if this is "normal" :/

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You are very unlucky, but it is just enough of a common occurrence for it not to be totally unusual either.

    I suspect there is also greater interest in instances right now combined with players still learning new builds after the balance patch. It’s triggering some of the less stable players which are definitely a minority

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • I agree, i want to believe they are a minority, but getting grouped with them this much, haaaaaaaa, I wish there was a way to spot people like them before entering a group :/ Maybe add a reputation mecanic where you can evaluate people behavior, and depending on their reputation, getting a special symbol next to their name. This may force them to be less toxic :D

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 29, 2020

    You also have to remember good pugs you rarely remember. Bad pugs, toxic pugs....they tend to linger in someone’s mind a bit more and sadly create a false atmosphere of how things are on a wider scale.

    If you continue to experience it is worth looking out for static groups or guilds. Your experiences should then change to be more positive more often

    Just remember, no one can be reported for being bad at the game. Someone however can be punished for abusing the report system in such a way or issuing death threats..

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Toxicity tends to get worse over time. Given how combat works in gw2, fractals and raids are very difficult for new players, but easy or even trivial for skilled veterans. As time goes by, people develop expectations that everyone should perform perfectly, since they should have years of practice at this point. It happens in every game that has repeatable pug content.

  • "Baby will you make me a sammich while I finish this Fractals run?" "No, make it yourself."

    "Man kitten this group"

  • There are still plenty of nice people doing PvE but raids are relatively more toxic that fractals.

  • Blur.3465Blur.3465 Member ✭✭✭

    In all honesty, it's one of the reasons why I'm avoiding super high-tier content which is CM Fractals and Raiding.
    Without a proper raiding guild or a guild that does these, I dare not pug them.
    While I haven't had problems with normal T4 Fractals and people were usually friendly, I can only imagine how it can be on higher difficulties.

    That being said...GW2 community in general is a ton better than WoW community >>

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Add enjoyable people to play with to your friends list (with a note/nickname as to what roles they can play and in what content you met them), and continue to invite those players back/form a static if possible.

    People like the ones you describe, just insta kick and block them. There is no need to indulge them, to take any of that personally or even be dissuaded from the content by it. Idiots exist, just move past them.

    Once both that friend and block list grows, the game is a lot more enjoyable.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is a gap between very good fractal players and regular fractal players where toxicity might increase.

    If you are running regular T4 fractals, you get the choice to run "everyone welcome", "relaxed/chill" or similar groups. Again, some toxicity might occur, but it should not get out of hand.
    If you run CM+T4 fractals, you can become good enough to run in decent top end groups. Again, some toxicity can occur, but usually as long as everything goes smoothly, players won't mind.

    The main issues arise once again in the gap between both extremes. In the good T4, but weak CM groups. Where better players (this can be due to actually being more skillful, or simply having an ego telling them they are more skillful. There is a lot of ego people who are mediocre at best) might meet weaker players. Obviously toxicity is out of place, but unfortunately this is the place where players will get triggered the most.

    As far as raids, again not justifying toxic behavior, but maybe check the LFG used and the wording. It seems off that someone who wants a smooth kill would join a training group. Unfortunately this has gotten a lot worse over the last 2 years. During mid HoT, asking for a certain amount of LI would improve the chances of getting similar skilled players together (which as with fractals, can reduce toxicity). Unfortunately in todays raid scene, LI and even KP mean very little. The best approach remains to be as clear as possible as far as the skill level of the group is concerned, as to reduce the chance of the inappropriate players joining.

  • Cyanchiv.2583Cyanchiv.2583 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 29, 2020

    I personally very rarely experience toxicity in this game, outside of PvP (even then that has become less of a common occurrence for me). I have regularly participated in T4 fractals but I always join or create more casual appealing groups such as "Everyone welcome". I don't find T4 fractals really challenging enough to require the elite builds and group compositions that can often come accompanied by that more toxic elitist attitude, so I figure that's how I've avoided it thus far.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't play Fractals enough to comment, I've never even done T4, let alone CM, but if the OPs experience is typical then it seems I've been very lucky with my raids groups. I only do raids with my guilds, but as I've progressed from the strictly training runs to casual, amateur runs we'll sometimes fill spaces via LFG. I think the worst we've had is people who joined an otherwise complete group and demanded everyone else say what their build is and ping kill proof then leave if anyone doesn't meet their requirements (not sure what those are, since they've never said, just left) or leave after the first failure but the worst comments we've had are "lol" or telling us we need to kick a specific person or they'll leave (easy choice when it's a guild group and they're the one stranger).

    Maybe it's different when it's one person joining via Looking for More vs a group formed entirely through Looking for Group?

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "If someone really cared, well they'd take the time to spare, a moment to try and understand another one's despair"

  • @Danikat.8537 said:
    Maybe it's different when it's one person joining via Looking for More vs a group formed entirely through Looking for Group?

    Definitely different, as a group you can identify who is underperformed easily, you also have an idea/expectation of how the group can perform. This could lead to toxicity in some case ie. Person that never done fractal suddenly join a cm group and expecting a good time.

    With the group form from lfg, a person will probably have some kind of expectation from the group but a lot less intense.

    Here is how I see each lfg
    T4+rec = cool with any class, just want finish my daily boons is a plus

    T4+rec lf specific class = dps have to do more then support, support have to give boons.

    Cm group = like the one above, plus people know what they are doing, and are expecting the same from everyone else. That mean you know the tricks of each fractals, you know how to adjust and change if needed.

    And for the love of god have enough ar and use your fractal potions, I dont care if you use food or what class you play, use your potions - this is to show that you are willing to invest in the content and not waste everyone time and enjoyment.

  • Etria.3642Etria.3642 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have not experienced this in a very long time. I run raids with a "chill" group. We do not make any of the checks for dps, and therefore have to do mechanics that apparently the good groups do not have to because they have better dps. For instance, we usually break a wall in Gorseval, we do a ranged strat for Deimos, we do greens for VG, we carefully mark pillars for Adina, we mark spots to stand in each and every raid, and we have yet to get Dhuum down, though we are getting there.

    We do not always have a full group, so sometimes we pug. We do NOT ask for kp, li, or experience. We have gotten everything from folks who totally and completely outclass us(like a mirage who did literally double our HIGHEST other dps) to folks where it is literally their very first raid(because we don't ask for anything). The most toxic we have gotten is someone who saw our dps, and "disconnected". Some do leave after one pull. Others have decided to stay with us and the guild, some just long enough to complete the raid armor collection, others are still here.

    So I am sure there are terrible toxics out there, but I am also sure there are plenty who are not. Some days we are lucky to complete Wing 4, some days we are lucky to complete up to Deimos, some days we have it together and schedule 2 hours to try to clear CM Samarog and do so in 30 minutes. But that said, there are also many weeks where we are NOT in lfg and therefore most other chill raiders would never encounter us. I like this group so much I literally have no kp. I donate them all to my guilds, and I am spending LI as I earn it to make the armor.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mrbob.4531 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    Maybe it's different when it's one person joining via Looking for More vs a group formed entirely through Looking for Group?

    Definitely different, as a group you can identify who is underperformed easily, you also have an idea/expectation of how the group can perform. This could lead to toxicity in some case ie. Person that never done fractal suddenly join a cm group and expecting a good time.

    With the group form from lfg, a person will probably have some kind of expectation from the group but a lot less intense.

    Here is how I see each lfg
    T4+rec = cool with any class, just want finish my daily boons is a plus

    T4+rec lf specific class = dps have to do more then support, support have to give boons.

    Cm group = like the one above, plus people know what they are doing, and are expecting the same from everyone else. That mean you know the tricks of each fractals, you know how to adjust and change if needed.

    And for the love of god have enough ar and use your fractal potions, I dont care if you use food or what class you play, use your potions - this is to show that you are willing to invest in the content and not waste everyone time and enjoyment.

    Your explaination, and especially the bit I put in bold, is the opposite of my experience though. What I've found is that guild groups are more relaxed and less likely to be toxic or agressive than the groups other players here are describing, which formed purely through LFG. If my guild groups do get any trouble it's from the random extra people we recruit through LFG to fill a space, who then decide the rest of the group (or a specific player) isn't up to their standards. But even then it's no where near as bad as the experiences the OP described.

    I haven't yet tried joining a raid group through LFG, partially because most of them seem to require a lot of Li or kill proof which I don't have, and partially because I know I'm not that good at raids yet and I need someone to explain what to do. But it sounds like people are much less patient and more agressive in those groups than the ones I have raided with.

    Alternatively that could just be my guilds. I had to find guilds who are not only willing to teach raiding and therefore accept that the first attempt (or the first few) might fail, but also willing to let people join on an ad hoc basis because I just can't commit to being online at a specific time on a regular basis. As a result both guilds I've raided with are pretty relaxed about requirements of all kinds. They encourage players to at least have 1 elite spec unlocked and be working towards the right equipment before starting, and sometimes one of the people teaching will switch professions if there's a mechanic we really need, but they don't tend to worry too much about things like exact DPS numbers.

    Or the difference could be between raiders and fractal players?

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "If someone really cared, well they'd take the time to spare, a moment to try and understand another one's despair"

  • Mrbob.4531Mrbob.4531 Member ✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    Your explaination, and especially the bit I put in bold, is the opposite of my experience though. What I've found is that guild groups are more relaxed and less likely to be toxic or agressive than the groups other players here are describing, which formed purely through LFG. If my guild groups do get any trouble it's from the random extra people we recruit through LFG to fill a space, who then decide the rest of the group (or a specific player) isn't up to their standards. But even then it's no where near as bad as the experiences the OP described.

    I haven't yet tried joining a raid group through LFG, partially because most of them seem to require a lot of Li or kill proof which I don't have, and partially because I know I'm not that good at raids yet and I need someone to explain what to do. But it sounds like people are much less patient and more agressive in those groups than the ones I have raided with.

    Alternatively that could just be my guilds. I had to find guilds who are not only willing to teach raiding and therefore accept that the first attempt (or the first few) might fail, but also willing to let people join on an ad hoc basis because I just can't commit to being online at a specific time on a regular basis. As a result both guilds I've raided with are pretty relaxed about requirements of all kinds. They encourage players to at least have 1 elite spec unlocked and be working towards the right equipment before starting, and sometimes one of the people teaching will switch professions if there's a mechanic we really need, but they don't tend to worry too much about things like exact DPS numbers.

    Or the difference could be between raiders and fractal players?

    nah probably just me. granted I would consider myself a fairly decent player, so my exp might be a bit different then most people.

    With the guild thing, mine is the same, in fractal if we do get a not so good player we just put up with it- maybe we will talk about it in guild chat at stuff, but never to the person. But with raid we atleast want people that see the mechanics or atleast watch the video of some raid so that we dont have to teach each boss (we just dont have time for that).

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2020

    @trixantea.1230 said:
    There are still plenty of nice people doing PvE but raids are relatively more toxic that fractals.

    The opposite is true. Delete all "relaxed" and groups without requirements from the fractal panel and compare the significant leftover of groups with the raid lfg (because there are almost only groups with requirements). In that comparison, trust me fractals are a cesspool in contrast to raids where insults & flaming are much less existent.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1, 2020

    Don't pug on weekends past reset. Seems like that's when all the maladjusted folks descent upon the game at least in NA.

    Also in general the further away you pug from reset, the worst it is since you get those annoying people that have most likely been booted from their groups to their amazing personalities.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Etria.3642 said:
    I have not experienced this in a very long time. I run raids with a "chill" group. We do not make any of the checks for dps, and therefore have to do mechanics that apparently the good groups do not have to because they have better dps. For instance, we usually break a wall in Gorseval, we do a ranged strat for Deimos, we do greens for VG, we carefully mark pillars for Adina, we mark spots to stand in each and every raid, and we have yet to get Dhuum down, though we are getting there.

    We do not always have a full group, so sometimes we pug. We do NOT ask for kp, li, or experience. We have gotten everything from folks who totally and completely outclass us(like a mirage who did literally double our HIGHEST other dps) to folks where it is literally their very first raid(because we don't ask for anything). The most toxic we have gotten is someone who saw our dps, and "disconnected". Some do leave after one pull. Others have decided to stay with us and the guild, some just long enough to complete the raid armor collection, others are still here.

    So I am sure there are terrible toxics out there, but I am also sure there are plenty who are not. Some days we are lucky to complete Wing 4, some days we are lucky to complete up to Deimos, some days we have it together and schedule 2 hours to try to clear CM Samarog and do so in 30 minutes. But that said, there are also many weeks where we are NOT in lfg and therefore most other chill raiders would never encounter us. I like this group so much I literally have no kp. I donate them all to my guilds, and I am spending LI as I earn it to make the armor.

    Thank you.

    This is one of those perfect example why experienced raiders, at least I have always, recommend for players to FIND A GUILD to play raid content with.

    This games raid content is vastly different between PUG groups and guild groups (unless you do join a toxic guild, in which case you've probably found the 1 bad apple in the bunch).

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is why I don't raid. I have no time for arrogance in what should be a fun thing and now it's spilling into the strike missions that I have to do if I want that mastery.

  • DoRi Silvia.4159DoRi Silvia.4159 Member ✭✭✭

    Very unfortunate for the OP

    I must say plugging is the worst thing with raids... unless it's a exp group with everyone knowing their class and mechanics it cam get pretty sour quickly.. I try and only do raids with my guild and the occasional 1 to 2 pugs to fill...

    But that's no excuse for a exp player to come into training and be toxic. That behaviour is going to cause the new interested players to be not so interested anymore.. and that's not what we want. The dumb kitten shouldn't have joined to be toxic (probably what he was wanting to do anyway).. I'd just black list the idiot and forget about it...

    Same goes with francs I daily frac and have met some numties ... even made a dev quit on us. But in all honesty fractals shouldn't be toxic I understand raids to a point why it exists but fracs... just no

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2020

    @kaidort.6947 said:
    Unfortunatly it is my (almost) everyday experience :/. But sometimes it is just a guy who leaves after telling the team is garbage, (not threatening the whole team you know), or ragequits after they missed one mecanic, in raids its like that in EVERY group i go with, each time, one guys goes into fury because he thinks one the DPS or one of the supprot is not doing great according to his standards. This is why im asking, if im juust VERY unlucky, or if this is "normal" :/

    I have never seen that kind of behavior in a training raid, and I have join quite a few in order to help (and train rotation). That should be a very unlucky event for groups marked training in the party search.

    CM (non-training) Fractals it is a bit different story, especially when there are 100-200 KP requirements. A smooth run should only take about an hour or less depending on the daily rotation. Retrying multiple times, failing mechanics, all those make it feel like wasted time for what is essentially a farm when you done the fractal several hundred if not thousands of times. Carrying people is also very tiresome in having to pick up mechanics that outside ones own role. With those kind of KP requirement there is also a somewhat expectation to skip mechanics through dps, and if dps or support fail in their roles, the work needed to get through the daily farm goes up. The result is a higher level of frustration and lower tolerance of failure.

    For regular raid clears, the normal behavior I see in groups is that people simply get silently kicked out if they fail mechanics or do not fulfill their role to a point where others have to step in and do it for them. No drama, no insults, just instant kick. With higher KP requirement I see a more strict enforcement of those rules. Some groups will even state a one-fail-instant-kick policy in the squad message, which I think is pretty fair. Some raid mechanics also gets on peoples nerve, like people who step in Deimos black circles and causing party wipes. Failing that mechanic carries a risk of being put on people block lists as a reference for future runs.

    That said, people who go around threatening people or suggesting that players should commit suicide should be banned. That kind of behavior is not acceptable. Report, take screenshot, and send in a ticket directly to anet support team.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Where are all of these entertaining people when I play? Honestly, they sound more like a parody of toxic players than actual players. Never had any pug tell me to go kill myself and I have thousands of LI over multiple accounts and did enough Fractals to finish Fractal God ages ago. Maybe I am just unlucky.

    Something tells me most of the stories about toxicity is blown out of proportion to evoke compassion in the reader.

  • I wouldn't say its worse, I'd just say it hasn't changed. I think for some, myself included, Strike Missions were seen as the PvE'rs raid instead of an "Elites" raid. Implemented as a stepping stone / training arena for raids, it's aesthetics fit the player wanting to do raids but also avoiding some of it's drawbacks, distraction issues, time commitment, toxicity (hopefully), "normal mode mote" / Dungeon boss level. I had high hopes for Strike Missions, they went in a different direction with it but oh well. It's a bummer they messed up my Story Meta because of strike missions, but it is what it is! So deflated goes my desire for them.

    Fractals, I admittedly have done less fractals than dungeons. I think my personal level is 40 or something so not high, still newish and I do not have the maps memorized. I can't say that I have had too much toxicity with fractals. If your good at following along and do a decent amount of dmg Fractal Regulars seem to be on an average decent. For sure you'll still hear the "time is money" and a player or 2 might leave if it's not looking like a "fast" win. But that's in all "end game-ish" content.

    Since DPS meters were "allowedish" (could be wrong but I thought I recalled a dev comment on them being okay under certain circumstances somewhere?) I've seen a bit more of the "This group isn't meeting DPS reqs, GL" then player leaves. That's actually the best that could happen in that kind of situation and it's annoying but I usually whisper the player and thank them for not being a XYZ. Because they could have! The last Dragon Bash, while awesome, had quite a few of the DPS metered groups and it sucked continually trying to find a group that wasn't being a XYZ. Over time we did get those achieves done but suffering through the DPS groups just blew!

    There's 2 ways players will win in this game.

    1 = Skillzez! High DPS, meta Build Template, Geared to the teeth, hit hard hit fast done!

    2 = Slow n Steady, I don't care if you, like I was in a raid once, are nicked with a stick as long as you keep trying and stick (no pun ;) ) around to the end.

    1 Skill or 2 patients One or the other usually wins out. In my experience anyway.

    Good Luck and Enjoy