Engi is whack

Previous patch just neutered everything that we had going for us before the patch, WHICH WASNT MUCH since everything OP had already been nerfed. now damage, cc and stab have been nerfed. This with the complete silence regarding the follow up patch is just insane.

for PvP

What is "whack"?Which game mode are you talking about? PVP or WVW?In WVW scrapper is much more relevant now. In addition, mine kit gained additional boon rip. The only major nerf not in line with other classes is blast gyro , it probably should have lost the CC instead of the damage. Ranged pressure received a net buff due to mortar kit , pistol, and elixir gun not really being hit. Grenades still have the travel time limitation.In PVP I see some scrappers as well, it's just necros and firebrands are much more common. The function gyro increased in function (no pun intended) due to the limitations of CC and damage in addition to the nerf to merciful intervention on guardian.

In PVE holo is in a good spot. I saw some benchmarks from the usual people having it at 37K. Sure it's not the broken >40K chrono benchmark but it's relatively decent given that you can stack vulnerability and boost overall party damage output as well.

@"Infusion.7149" said:What is "whack"?Which game mode are you talking about? PVP or WVW?In WVW scrapper is much more relevant now. In addition, mine kit gained additional boon rip. The only major nerf not in line with other classes is blast gyro , it probably should have lost the CC instead of the damage. Ranged pressure received a net buff due to mortar kit , pistol, and elixir gun not really being hit. Grenades still have the travel time limitation.In PVP I see some scrappers as well, it's just necros and firebrands are much more common. The function gyro increased in function (no pun intended) due to the limitations of CC and damage in addition to the nerf to merciful intervention on guardian.

In PVE holo is in a good spot. I saw some benchmarks from the usual people having it at 37K. Sure it's not the broken >40K chrono benchmark but it's relatively decent given that you can stack vulnerability and boost overall party damage output as well.

WvW or PvP it doesn’t matter, core, scrapper and holo do next to zero power damage. Hammer scrapper for example, feels awful and doesn't gen any meaningful barrier. Nerfs usually limit access to powerful effects, they don’t trivialize elite spec mechanics.

I've played marauder hammer scrapper post patch in WvW without issue ; the first day post-patch I 1v3ed rangers and a DH probably because they were clueless... Med kit's 1 skill and the outgoing heal was nerfed heavily so you wouldn't want to camp it for healing purposes.

Hammer has its own might and vulnerability generation which is in its favor. Auto's coefficients are 0.533, 0.666, and 0.933 along with 1.36 (counting both strikes) for electrowhirl , 0.74 per strike on rocket charge , and 0.45 per strike on Thunderclap (which retained the lightning field and stun unlike warrior hammer skills which have either CC or damage).If you really want damage you need the Explosives line which nets you damage+explosion on dodge quite similar to warrior's pre-nerf Reckless Dodge in Strength traitlines. Because Explosives gained defensive aspects in Big Boomer and Blast Shield, it's no longer a purely offensive traitline.

From videos I've seen people post online with arcdps up post patch, squad-supported scrappers are doing decent damage as well, with only reapers and berserkers (which have a major toughness tradeoff) ahead and some condi rev variants. There's also condi holos running pistol+pistol along with Photon Forge for Photon Blitz, but that's an adventure I'd leave to other people because I hate the pistol.

Sustain-wise, purge gyro and elixir gun are both even more relevant when people are consistently trying condi builds. Unlike the cleanses on Firebrands and shout/aura tempest you're able to cleanse 5 deep which means cover conditions are far less of a problem.

If you're just looking at the scrapper in a vacuum without looking at other classes' nerfs, they haven't made out that poorly. 1.3 or 1.5 coefficient is now considered a "decent" damage , while >1.8 coefficient skills (without a channel or conditional clause) are rarer such as daredevil's Vault or thief's Backstab or Berserker's Arc Divider.

@"Infusion.7149" said:I've played marauder hammer scrapper post patch in WvW without issue ; the first day post-patch I 1v3ed rangers and a DH probably because they were clueless... Med kit's 1 skill and the outgoing heal was nerfed heavily so you wouldn't want to camp it for healing purposes.

Hammer has its own might and vulnerability generation which is in its favor. Auto's coefficients are 0.533, 0.666, and 0.933 along with 1.36 (counting both strikes) for electrowhirl , 0.74 per strike on rocket charge , and 0.45 per strike on Thunderclap (which retained the lightning field and stun unlike warrior hammer skills which have either CC or damage).If you really want damage you need the Explosives line which nets you damage+explosion on dodge quite similar to warrior's pre-nerf Reckless Dodge in Strength traitlines. Because Explosives gained defensive aspects in Big Boomer and Blast Shield, it's no longer a purely offensive traitline.

From videos I've seen people post online with arcdps up post patch, squad-supported scrappers are doing decent damage as well, with only reapers and berserkers (which have a major toughness tradeoff) ahead and some condi rev variants. There's also condi holos running pistol+pistol along with Photon Forge for Photon Blitz, but that's an adventure I'd leave to other people because I hate the pistol.

Sustain-wise, purge gyro and elixir gun are both even more relevant when people are consistently trying condi builds. Unlike the cleanses on Firebrands and shout/aura tempest you're able to cleanse 5 deep which means cover conditions are far less of a problem.

If you're just looking at the scrapper in a vacuum without looking at other classes' nerfs, they haven't made out that poorly. 1.3 or 1.5 coefficient is now considered a "decent" damage , while >1.8 coefficient skills (without a channel or conditional clause) are rarer such as daredevil's Vault or thief's Backstab or Berserker's Arc Divider.

And I have 5000 hours on strictly scrapper, it doesn’t feel good.

Do you recall the patch previous to this one?They upped the ratios on hammer so that it could be viable for generating barrier. How can you competently say any of the ratios feel decent when they’re lower than they were PRIOR to the patch that intended to make hammer stronger, without any changes to the vit tradeoff or barrier gen?

Hammer Scrapper lost its sustain because it lost it’s Damage. It’s a matter of math, not feel.

If you're talking about the minor trait (Impact Savant) it's understandable, but if you mean overall then I'd disagree. Everyone else's damage has dropped.

Also, see what I wrote (in what you quoted) about explosives now also being partly a defensive gain.

edit: Alchemy was also barely touched outside of Purity of Purpose , Elixir E + Protection Injection gained recharge , some boons were cut shorter and that's about it.

I mean,the numbers just don’t make any sense when considering impact savant. I won’t disagree that explosives is definitely an option for making up the difference though. The way I see it is, if scrapper is doing 50% less damage, then they’re getting 50% less barrier, making the -180 vit trait an ever worse tradeoff.

Anets scrapper philosophy was so recently updated, and this patch seemed to disregard how they intended the class to play and the way those numbers interacted with each other.

Well the patch had PVP in mind first and foremost with WVW an afterthought. The WVW patchnotes were verbatim from the PVP ones, with some notable differences that were outright omitted such as Bunker Down which was 2 second cooldown before patch in WVW but 3 seconds in PVP , now 4 seconds ICD.In PVP there isn't a prevalence of toughness other than on demolisher & paladin amulet builds. The wanderer amulet (560 toughness) and deadshot amulet (no toughness) were both removed.

Right now the amulets with toughness are rabid (900 toughness), knight's (1200 toughness with no ferocity), cavalier's (1200 toughness with no precision), and demolisher's/paladin's with 500 toughness down from 560. Celestial has some toughness but not overly high at +460.

If anything I think that 4 stats items (viper/trailblazer/minstrel/marauder/etc) will eventually be reduced in potency for WVW (& PVE possibly) as well . In PVP they were tuned down from +1050 and +560 minor stat to +1000 and +500 minor stat. There's a huge difference between hitting something with 3100 armor level (trailblazer scourge for example) or 3500 armor level (minstrel firebrand) and 2000-2200 armor level. The only way to push damage outside of traits in that instance is lots of vulnerability and might stacking.

Thats wrong. In PvP Engineer is doing better than ever. It hasn't been this useful since 2015.

If you mean the wannabe Warrior specialisations that killed the core Engineer game play, then yes, they got lowered in usefulness. Like every other specialisation too.

impact savant may need to be raised from 15% to 20%, but i'm not doing too bad with my scrapper. i like it so far.

holo dmg is fine just grab zerker amulet. to buff up scrap dmg in pvp I say grab mortar - 2k autos with demolisher amulet.

@Bossun.2046 said:Previous patch just neutered everything that we had going for us before the patch, WHICH WASNT MUCH since everything OP had already been nerfed. now damage, cc and stab have been nerfed. This with the complete silence regarding the follow up patch is just insane.

Well. Holosmith is whack, it's true. Core is a bit rough around the edges with its potential. Scrapper comes out on top. I'm not very fond of how it comes out on top though.

This patch just kill the fiew build diversity we had. Holosmith have next to no synergy with the engineer. Class start to be less and less fun to play. Whats the piint of balance is the game feel dull

Weird, it's not quite the total package, but I'm having a hoot of a good time with core celestial in WvW.

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:Thats wrong. In PvP Engineer is doing better than ever. It hasn't been this useful since 2015.

If you mean the wannabe Warrior specialisations that killed the core Engineer game play, then yes, they got lowered in usefulness. Like every other specialisation too.

Flat out incorrect. Holo and scrapper have both had time in the light over the past 2 years, now they’re a joke. Power classes aren’t in a good place.

power holo is fine. id reckon its even better than before patch. granted it took a while to craft an actual build that works. now im killing condi revs, symbol fb's and core necro's(granted they dont put up much of a fight) with the good old power dmg. tanks power dmg aswell as condi's .and its not boring prot holo either, noone wanna see that shit

I am talking in regards to PvP. I am just not enjoying myself, even when playing zerker it just feels as if damage is just underwhelming unless running something similar to the static discharge gadget build on holo, which stands no chance vs anything that is being played atm. i am tryin but cant find anything that works, even zerker prot rifle holo does no dmg XD

Rifle holo is dog shit nowProt holo is GOOD Against CONDI match ups OnlyScrapper Is Fairly good in Both Dps/Bunkering people off nodes

Overall Core Engi is Shit unless you decide to play some pure meme/bunker people with gadgets , Scrapper Dps won't be so great till Necro/Fb/Condi Revs get checked because it'll force them to play a less dps traitline and then Prot holo having close to 0 stability (1sec from certain utilities) Makes the class dog shit against Ranger,Power Mirage, and Warrior.

So yea The entire Fucking Class needs a rework on utilities IMO. Rework Gadgets , Kites and fucking turrets please. Sick and Tired of being Forced to play with the same weapons because so much of the utilities are just dog shit.

Question to you guys is engi viable now for SPVP? I was told by a player to create engi good class. Engi is one of the classes i am looking forward to creating and playing because i love to just tinker with classes.

@Axl.8924 said:Question to you guys is engi viable now for SPVP? I was told by a player to create engi good class. Engi is one of the classes i am looking forward to creating and playing because i love to just tinker with classes.

Engi overall is normally a fun spec to play, but due to ANet overnerfing it, it just feels underwhelming at the moment. I am sure that they will fix it sooner or later but up to you if you want to wait.

You guys just have to find the right builds. I have been able to make a Rifle Scrapper from before the patch that still works now. Just a little less burst from the removal of damage from CC skills.

I recently made a Condi Holo that I really like and has good survivability.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAoqjVYfWndhDvk2bD-z5YXGZWAlmAOPA

Kamikaze Holo which I find quite hilarious, and difficult but rewarding if played right. I say play it if you dare. You could probably play it better than I do hehe.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAQlJw+YasLWJO8W/vaA-zZoLjGLgMTA3GA

And then just pure power Holo with a similar setup to the Condi Holo. Still testing it out with different setupshttp://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAQlZw+YMsLWJO8SavUA-zZoLjMTgSLAnHA

@BarnacleBoy.6918 said:

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:Thats wrong. In PvP Engineer is doing better than ever. It hasn't been this useful since 2015.

If you mean the wannabe Warrior specialisations that killed the core Engineer game play, then yes, they got lowered in usefulness. Like every other specialisation too.

I disagree. Prot holo is doing just dandy right now. The problem is that certain classes are overperforming too substantially right now.

I played this pretty cool core Engineer build that uses bomb kit with bunker down and explosives 2-3-3. It was actually pretty fun, fairly sustainable, and dealt some nice damage. If i'm not mistaken, i also used celestial amulet for the bigger heals from both bunker down and big boomer. it was quite nice. I'll have to find the build again and send it through here.

I think that the Engineer has the same kind of design issues that a couple of other classes that have recieved the "core relevance" polish and seen recent design changes suffer from now. It lacks a realistic sense of purpose. For example, the Scrapper was re-imagined to be more of a Bruiser but (for WvW) the stuff they took away was what made the class a potential Bruiser. They ended up making it less of a Bruiser by taking away group-utilities (eg., gyro heals) and some survivability (eg., vitality) but left other forms of utility intact (eg., dedicated healing on the Healing kit). If they wanted it to be more of a Bruiser and less of a Healer for example, they should obviously have adressed the Healing kit instead of all the utility that could be provided while being aggressive.

The recent changes to explosives have improved its potential as a Bruiser a bit again but it's still less of one than it used to be and it's still questionable whether it is even remotely competetive among true Bruisers like common builds among the plate classes. I wouldn't trade blows with a Warrior or Revenant, that's not even a remotely close matchup.

There's possibly alot to gain in sitting down and trying to define some different and realistic purposes for the different specs and builds. Perhaps they should encourage eg., kit- and turret builds on core and find trade-offs for that on the elites, especially with the lacklustre weapon selection on core but they obviously need to make sure that the purpose fits the bill and that the specs can be competetive within whatever purpose they envision for them. Going back to the same example as before, should they whack Support Scrapper with Healing kit nerfs it would obviously need to be competetive on that on core and Scrapper would obviously need to be competetive as a Bruiser.

Otherwise the class ends up being nothing.

We've seen similar issues on things like Druid and Chrono. Why would you play them now? Their purpose and performance are disconnected. The Soulbeast is another interesting comparison given how it does decently well, even after the core-relevance treatment with no pet swap, but it certainly isn't played as suggested with its specialist weapons, utilities and stat-distribution (hybrid). If they ever address the damage potential that makes it more appealing than core in whatever role or purpose that spec is also going to end up as hot garbage.

Honestly Ive been playing a fair bit of Core Engineer lately, and it actually feels pretty good, Grenades arent completely outclassed damage-wise by other classes, and your sustain and utility is quite nice too. Plus, Supply Crate is a brutal CC if used after Thrown Elixir S. I do wish Core Engi had some mainhand power weapon so you could use shield though. Rifle is decent, but not amazing.