Will we ever be accepted? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Will we ever be accepted?

It seems no matter how many nerfs, no matter how underrepresented, no matter how lackluster remaining builds are, we'll never be accepted. When we win, it's because of our class. When we lose, that's how it should be.

^After beating a thief 1v1 and then 1v3. With post-patch, one-dodge hybrid-mirage trying shatter play.
Running Dueling, Illusions, Mirage. Scepter/Pistol, Axe/Torch. No Chaos, no Staff, one dodge.

That person is somewhat right. I'm not good. I spent previous matches in one impossible matchup after another, being focused, chased, and clinging to my one precious dodge, rarely having the nerve to use it purely offensively. When I finally had a small taste of victory, it was apparently illegitimate.

What more do they want from us? Even in March 2020, with the harshest nerf in the game, people still don't cut us any slack. :(

Comments

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Ah yes, but pick up a GS and suddenly you're "good".

    The prejudice is real.

    Naah. I played mostly power and this kind of whispers were still common.

    Hmm, yeah maybe I've been lucky here. Mesmer haters always going to hate, even if we had no dodges. xD

    My ears, how are you! | Staff | Greatsword

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Forgot Axe 3's target break and evade + teleport was so busted.

    May try Hybrid Mirage now and abuse Axe 3 and Illusionary Ambush then Stealth away then hit them with the big ol Confusing Images.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • @Yasai.3549 said:
    Forgot Axe 3's target break and evade + teleport was so busted.

    May try Hybrid Mirage now and abuse Axe 3 and Illusionary Ambush then Stealth away then hit them with the big ol Confusing Images.

    I was always an axe Mirage at heart, as recently as two seasons ago, well after the meta had abandoned it. It was high-risk, potentially moderate-reward pre-patch. Its damage potential and evade frames might serve better now that global damage is down and we're short a dodge.

    Unfortunately, nerfs, design, and bugs make it pretty clunky at times. Axe 2 is a vulnerable animation lock that we can't afford to partially cover with MC freely anymore. The ambush was nerfed to require facing opponents when casting. The axes themselves are projectiles weak to projectile hate, and get split among opponents and AIs if in range. The delayed axe strikes will reveal you so you should take care not to enter stealth before they've dissipated. Finally, as good as axe 3 seems in theory, its tracking is poor, and it notoriously misses moving targets, especially if they move out of range after casting. It's no Rev sword 3, which will stick to targets through ports.

    But if you do find any level of success with it in this post-two-dodge reality, be prepared for pug teammates to take it for granted, and opponents to adhere to antiquated attitudes towards the pink and purple butterfly class.

    Good luck!

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People who whisper others like that are just salty. I get both sides though. Mesmer can be really fun to play but it can also be really frustrating to play against. Just by the nature of the mechanics mesmer and theif will always feel 'unfair' to play against to some extent, even if they're not OP.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • @Zexanima.7851 said:
    People who whisper others like that are just salty. I get both sides though. Mesmer can be really fun to play but it can also be really frustrating to play against. Just by the nature of the mechanics mesmer and theif will always feel 'unfair' to play against to some extent, even if they're not OP.

    For sure. Both classes may never escape their reputations for "toxic" design elements (to borrow a popular term on this forum) unless completely redesigned from the ground up. Even if objectively underpowered and underrepresented.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    People who whisper others like that are just salty. I get both sides though. Mesmer can be really fun to play but it can also be really frustrating to play against. Just by the nature of the mechanics mesmer and theif will always feel 'unfair' to play against to some extent, even if they're not OP.

    For sure. Both classes may never escape their reputations for "toxic" design elements (to borrow a popular term on this forum) unless completely redesigned from the ground up. Even if objectively underpowered and underrepresented.

    It's not toxic, lets just call it what it is, bad design. From a PvP stand point it's not fun to play against things that hide information from your opponent. Imagine playing chess and every other move your opponents pieces go invisible. On top of that how conditions play as a whole are poorly designed for PvP. It's all a result of what happens when you trying to squeeze PvP into a game designed around PvE.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Mesmer and thief will never get accepted. And mesmer will remain the most hated profession in the game. I play mesmer (have been since glamour mesmer), not a hardcore player but play it once in a while. And even my guild members dont like the profession. No matter how buggy, how cheesy other professions are, people always hate mesmers.

    Why? Because they are unable to understand it, simply. Of course there are other haters but mostly clones and stealth make people lose focus so they feel powerless. They feel "tricked" really. And because that they cant understand it most of the time, they choose to hate it. You can hit them with 40 k winters bite, 50k eviscerate or even instakill them with meteors. But they will always keep hating mesmers. (Of course some bad game balance changes contributed to this too, like condi mirage at its full power, or one shot chrono days).

    ps: bring glamour mes back.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @alain.1659 said:
    ps: bring glamour mes back.

    I would like to see your ideas about glamors and glamor trait in my thread:

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97749/mesmer-pvp-oriented-feedback-about-bad-skills

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @alain.1659 said:
    Mesmer and thief will never get accepted. And mesmer will remain the most hated profession in the game. I play mesmer (have been since glamour mesmer), not a hardcore player but play it once in a while. And even my guild members dont like the profession. No matter how buggy, how cheesy other professions are, people always hate mesmers.

    Why? Because they are unable to understand it, simply. Of course there are other haters but mostly clones and stealth make people lose focus so they feel powerless. They feel "tricked" really. And because that they cant understand it most of the time, they choose to hate it. You can hit them with 40 k winters bite, 50k eviscerate or even instakill them with meteors. But they will always keep hating mesmers. (Of course some bad game balance changes contributed to this too, like condi mirage at its full power, or one shot chrono days).

    ps: bring glamour mes back.

    Your mesmer elitism is wrong. I and many others understand how it plays perfectly well. Its a case of "Fun to play, not fun to play against". Its not how hard it hits (which core can spike pretty hard) but how it plays. Its a class that is a big perpetrator of using lots of invulns, stealth and stealth burst, as well as condi spam and boon spam. All of which are pretty unfun mechanics to face specially in tandem. Its not that it's broken or that people are too dumb to understand "such a complicated profession" its just that it's mechanics are poorly designed.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @alain.1659 said:
    Mesmer and thief will never get accepted. And mesmer will remain the most hated profession in the game. I play mesmer (have been since glamour mesmer), not a hardcore player but play it once in a while. And even my guild members dont like the profession. No matter how buggy, how cheesy other professions are, people always hate mesmers.

    Why? Because they are unable to understand it, simply. Of course there are other haters but mostly clones and stealth make people lose focus so they feel powerless. They feel "tricked" really. And because that they cant understand it most of the time, they choose to hate it. You can hit them with 40 k winters bite, 50k eviscerate or even instakill them with meteors. But they will always keep hating mesmers. (Of course some bad game balance changes contributed to this too, like condi mirage at its full power, or one shot chrono days).

    ps: bring glamour mes back.

    Your mesmer elitism is wrong. I and many others understand how it plays perfectly well. Its a case of "Fun to play, not fun to play against". Its not how hard it hits (which core can spike pretty hard) but how it plays. Its a class that is a big perpetrator of using lots of invulns, stealth and stealth burst, as well as condi spam and boon spam. All of which are pretty unfun mechanics to face specially in tandem. Its not that it's broken or that people are too dumb to understand "such a complicated profession" its just that it's mechanics are poorly designed.

    Sorry if it sounded like elitism but it was not meant to be. I was solely trying to comment on the people who never tried to learn the mesmer profession (thus unable to understand it when they face it) yet hated it profoundly. And my comment was not actually limited for gw2 but as it is late in where I live and I tend to mutli task, I might have failed that too.

    Check most of the games in the market. Mostly the trickster characters, the one people feel powerless against, are the ones that are hated most. It is not limited to gw2. I specifically said "there are other haters" because people have their own opinions and those are sometimes right. My analysis was mostly aimed for the blind mesmer haters I found in my guild or in enemy teams. If you hate(d) mirage for example, you are right, as the mechanics of it really is/was broken. Or if you hate one shot chrono, well, it was really broken too.

    I might have argued with you on this but I do not like where the mesmer class is right now. But I love the tricks, stealth, clones and all other deceptive skills. For me it is not a poorly designed mechanics. I would say that a one shot mechanic(including mesmer one shot) is poorly designed. Or any build that relies on a one-trick-pony style is poorly designed for me. But I love to try to read my opponent, try to trick him, and win the battle. Believe it or not I really enjoy when I am outsmarted and tricked. I usually try to learn but tend to fail miserably in several occasions. So what you do not like, I like, and what I do not like, you might like. As far as I concern if the profession is not unbeatable, or OP, both can, and should exist. As they satisfy different needs and tastes. But again, several people want to destroy/remove what they do not like.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2020

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    People who whisper others like that are just salty. I get both sides though. Mesmer can be really fun to play but it can also be really frustrating to play against. Just by the nature of the mechanics mesmer and theif will always feel 'unfair' to play against to some extent, even if they're not OP.

    This ^
    So to ur question the answer is no mesmers will never be accepted by a large margin of players that are not interested in the class and or dislike fighting it due to its theme and playstyle just as thief won't as well. Best u can hope for is that anet understands that a large portion of their playerbase feel the opposite and enjoy these classes the most and follow their vision for them in regards to changes and not the communities or in time neither mesmer or thief will be worth playing and the game will just lose a huge chunk of it's already low population due to players not enjoying their main anymore. Not all players just bandwagon to the fotm classes. I'd guess a lot of mirage players have already moved on at this point. I get balance is important but seeing as it's a game fun comes first.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @holly lyn.2173 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    Your mesmer elitism is wrong. I and many others understand how it plays perfectly well. Its a case of "Fun to play, not fun to play against". Its not how hard it hits (which core can spike pretty hard) but how it plays. Its a class that is a big perpetrator of using lots of invulns, stealth and stealth burst, as well as condi spam and boon spam. All of which are pretty unfun mechanics to face specially in tandem. Its not that it's broken or that people are too dumb to understand "such a complicated profession" its just that it's mechanics are poorly designed.

    Your comments are poorly masked. Saying Mesmers have too much stealth/condi./burst/boons and everything else AND all in tandem is obvious hate and untrue. As far as fun to play vs. fun to fight against has some merit, I don't like fighting against other mesmers either but who has "fun" fighting a perma evade/stealth thief, or the warr. that hits for 5k auto attacks yet has 1k Passive regen. AND tons of invuln/blocks or yolosmith, or boonbest or...….or...…..

    I get what ur saying but mesmers cant really complain about other classes damage nor their evades etc etc when even post patch ur burst outa stealth is still 14k+ and even with one dodge mirage is still far more elusive than probably all other classes. Clone spam find the real mesmer they distort take no damage poof there gone than literally repeat as a good mirage dances around u stripping ur hp very fast if they didn't one shot u from stealth. The class honestly due to its design probably pushes more people out of the game and onto other games without such a as burnfall puts it a toxic design. The class is literal cheese incarnate lol thief is cheese as well but mirage is literally the king of cheese, don't think I've ever seen something designed worse in any vid I've played lol.

  • My biggest issue with Mirage is expending too much on offense. If a player dodges/blocks all of my attacks, then I have nothing to defend myself with. It's a terrible habit and god, I can't imagine how hard it'll be on me with just one dodge.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Ah yes, but pick up a GS and suddenly you're "good".

    The prejudice is real.

    Lol no.

    "Omg macro mesmer." "garbage skillless one shot from stealth." "Mantra mesmer is no skill."

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Ah yes, but pick up a GS and suddenly you're "good".

    The prejudice is real.

    Lol no.

    "Omg macro mesmer." "garbage skillless one shot from stealth." "Mantra mesmer is no skill."

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Ah yes, but pick up a GS and suddenly you're "good".

    The prejudice is real.

    Naah. I played mostly power and this kind of whispers were still common.

    Hmm, yeah maybe I've been lucky here. Mesmer haters always going to hate, even if we had no dodges. xD

    For the record this is not based on recent experience, and I never liked or used MoD or MoP with gs.

    In terms of relative number of hate whispers, I've received more over time on staff or any leaning towards condi than with power, and can't ever recall many if any compliments when condi though have certainly had the odd one here and there in the past when power - granted again this is not up to date.

    But yeah all mesmer gets far too much salt in general.

    My ears, how are you! | Staff | Greatsword

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Ah yes, but pick up a GS and suddenly you're "good".

    The prejudice is real.

    Lol no.

    "Omg macro mesmer." "garbage skillless one shot from stealth." "Mantra mesmer is no skill."

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Ah yes, but pick up a GS and suddenly you're "good".

    The prejudice is real.

    Naah. I played mostly power and this kind of whispers were still common.

    Hmm, yeah maybe I've been lucky here. Mesmer haters always going to hate, even if we had no dodges. xD

    For the record this is not based on recent experience, and I never liked or used MoD or MoP with gs.

    In terms of relative number of hate whispers, I've received more over time on staff or any leaning towards condi than with power, and can't ever recall many if any compliments when condi though have certainly had the odd one here and there in the past when power - granted again this is not up to date.

    But yeah all mesmer gets far too much salt in general.

    Bra, i have played power axe 4fun builds and got called trash condi abuser.
    People are clueless.
    Add the fact in that 95% players hate conditions. add in that 95% players get lost in clones. and salt salt salt incoming!

    Oh I agree, there's a lot of clueless players moaning about stuff that is complete nonsense, especially when it comes to any form of mesmer.

    Though my favourite case of bullkitten was a number of years back in pvp beating a thief as melee ranger - got accused and reported for hacking because impossible to have so many evades, lol. Clueless and hypocritical.

    My ears, how are you! | Staff | Greatsword

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721
    yep.
    mesmer
    rev
    engi
    the only cool classes. the rest is carbon copy of overused classes from other games everywhere.

    toss the coin to your mesmer!

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Thornwolf.9721
    yep.
    mesmer
    rev
    engi
    the only cool classes. the rest is carbon copy of overused classes from other games everywhere.

    and note they always get the shaft~

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Thornwolf.9721
    yep.
    mesmer
    rev
    engi
    the only cool classes. the rest is carbon copy of overused classes from other games everywhere.

    and note they always get the shaft~

    what is different and unknown is always feared and attacked, its partly how racism works, just in game version of it lol

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mes from gw2 is not that original, there are plenty of similar classes in other games, even f2p ones.
    Now mes from the first gw, that was original at least on mmorpgs (blue counterspell deck on MtG based).

    The degenerate

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭

    Accepted as what?

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Senqu.8054Senqu.8054 Member ✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Mes from gw2 is not that original, there are plenty of similar classes in other games, even f2p ones.
    Now mes from the first gw, that was original at least on mmorpgs (blue counterspell deck on MtG based).

    I don’t want to attack you or anything. I’m just curious wich games do you mean? I’m looking for a new one but can’t find a good game with a class like a Mesmer in gw2. (Pls don’t say BDO haha I don’t like that)

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Senqu.8054 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    Mes from gw2 is not that original, there are plenty of similar classes in other games, even f2p ones.
    Now mes from the first gw, that was original at least on mmorpgs (blue counterspell deck on MtG based).

    I don’t want to attack you or anything. I’m just curious wich games do you mean? I’m looking for a new one but can’t find a good game with a class like a Mesmer in gw2. (Pls don’t say BDO haha I don’t like that)

    First game that came to mind was one of the perfect world entertainment, can't remember the name since I've played it even before gw2 released, you could summon a bunch of clones and they would follow you and attack at the same time you did.
    As far as I know, I don't play them, ESO and Dofus both have the same clone stuff too.

    I mean I'm not saying that the games are good, all I'm saying is that gw2's mesmer is far from original.

    The degenerate

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    Half Life: Alyx is amazing guys.

    [HCM] 4 life!