Some phantasms could do with some love. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Some phantasms could do with some love.

Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited March 7, 2020 in Mesmer

A few are still underperforming, even in this state of the game.

iWarden - the rng thrown axes really suffer in anything more than a 1v1, which dilutes this into a mere projectile destruction bubble on 25s (edit) 20s cooldown. I don't know what could be done to help this poor guy but it really could benefit from something.

iWarlock - since reducing this to a single phantasm, it's pretty lame with an unnecessarily long cast animation (further delaying spawning of a clone for no reason). In some ways I'd prefer the old single bolt attack with some decent damage, but if this beam is to be kept then it should be sped up, maybe with a small buff to damage.

iMage - I still don't know why this one is on a 30s cooldown, when the double wind up (player cast and phantasm cast) means it misses its attack frequently unless the target is stationary. It's visually a cool animation so I like it to stay, but it needs to perform its attack faster and this should really be brought to 25s 20s in line with pretty much all other weapon phantasms.

iSwordsman - well I suppose it's difficult to measure from few people touching OH sword nowdays, but I feel it could do with some quality of life as is quite an awkward skill to make the most of both the player hit and for the phantasm to land hits. The old single strike was strong, or at the least maybe it could perform its attack faster.

My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.

Comments

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2020

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    A few are still underperforming, even in this state of the game.

    iWarden - the rng thrown axes really suffer in anything more than a 1v1, which dilutes this into a mere projectile destruction bubble on 25s cooldown. I don't know what could be done to help this poor guy but it really could benefit from something.

    Is it still 25s cd? Wiki says 20?

    iWarlock - since reducing this to a single phantasm, it's pretty lame with an unnecessarily long cast animation (further delaying spawning of a clone for no reason). In some ways I'd prefer the old single bolt attack with some decent damage, but if this beam is to be kept then it should be sped up, maybe with a small buff to damage.

    It does absolutely nothing just like the rest of the staff kit. They really ruined staff completely because mirage has ambush on it. lol

    iMage - I still don't know why this one is on a 30s cooldown, when the double wind up (player cast and phantasm cast) means it misses its attack frequently unless the target is stationary. It's visually a cool animation so I like it to stay, but it needs to perform its attack faster and this should really be brought to 25s in line with pretty much all other weapon phantasms.

    All other phantasm cooldowns are on 20s... I dont even know why it was on 30s since vanilla...

    iSwordsman - well I suppose it's difficult to measure from few people touching OH sword nowdays, but I feel it could do with some quality of life as is quite an awkward skill to make the most of both the player hit and for the phantasm to land hits. The old single strike was strong, or at the least maybe it could perform its attack faster.

    To avoid getting hit by this I would just walk away and damage is low anyway.
    Overall I think phantasms cast time are too long, phantasms have to run to its target and cast their own attack, disappear if they are interrupted, getting blinded or simply just can walk away from it and dont do pretty meh damage given all this facts.
    Dont expect anything, everyone hate mesmer and would be there to spam how they hate mesmer and how OP it is (you can see on pvp page there is someone complaining about "too much evasion on mirage" xD)

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    A few are still underperforming, even in this state of the game.

    iWarden - the rng thrown axes really suffer in anything more than a 1v1, which dilutes this into a mere projectile destruction bubble on 25s cooldown. I don't know what could be done to help this poor guy but it really could benefit from something.

    Is it still 25s cd? Wiki says 20?

    iWarlock - since reducing this to a single phantasm, it's pretty lame with an unnecessarily long cast animation (further delaying spawning of a clone for no reason). In some ways I'd prefer the old single bolt attack with some decent damage, but if this beam is to be kept then it should be sped up, maybe with a small buff to damage.

    It does absolutely nothing just like the rest of the staff kit. They really ruined staff completely because mirage has ambush on it. lol

    iMage - I still don't know why this one is on a 30s cooldown, when the double wind up (player cast and phantasm cast) means it misses its attack frequently unless the target is stationary. It's visually a cool animation so I like it to stay, but it needs to perform its attack faster and this should really be brought to 25s in line with pretty much all other weapon phantasms.

    All other phantasm cooldowns are on 20s... I dont even know why it was on 30s since vanilla...

    iSwordsman - well I suppose it's difficult to measure from few people touching OH sword nowdays, but I feel it could do with some quality of life as is quite an awkward skill to make the most of both the player hit and for the phantasm to land hits. The old single strike was strong, or at the least maybe it could perform its attack faster.

    To avoid getting hit by this I would just walk away and damage is low anyway.
    Overall I think phantasms cast time are too long, phantasms have to run to its target and cast their own attack, disappear if they are interrupted, getting blinded or simply just can walk away from it and dont do pretty meh damage given all this facts.
    Dont expect anything, everyone hate mesmer and would be there to spam how they hate mesmer and how OP it is (you can see on pvp page there is someone complaining about "too much evasion on mirage" xD)

    My mistake, iWarden is 20s - but yeah it still needs help.

    I'd love iMage on 20s also, given everything else is 20s (or 18 in the case of staff). Is ridiculous on 30s.

    My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2020

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    My mistake, iWarden is 20s - but yeah it still needs help.

    I didnt say it doesnt need help :)

    I'd love iMage on 20s also, given everything else is 20s (or 18 in the case of staff). Is ridiculous on 30s.

    Well, as I said it was from the ancient times even when this phantasm was absolutely kitten and was a pure shatter fodder

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    My mistake, iWarden is 20s - but yeah it still needs help.

    I didnt say it doesnt need help :)

    I'd love iMage on 20s also, given everything else is 20s (or 18 in the case of staff). Is ridiculous on 30s.

    Well, as I said it was from the ancient times even when this phantasm was absolutely kitten and was a pure shatter fodder

    Oh I remember. :( While the attack now at least does some damage/daze, it's totally unjustified on 30s when it misses so often.

    My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2020

    I would say even berserker needs help now.
    Hitting for 2.5k if you're full glass and you're really lucky.

    Old phantasms were all better, a simple revert would suffice in all of them.

    The degenerate

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    I recall the iMage being semi decent, back when Burn couldn’t stack intensity and was always 1 stack.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    I would say even berserker needs help now.
    Hitting for 2.5k if you're full glass and you're really lucky.

    Old phantasms were all better, a simple revert would suffice in all of them.

    This could be worth it, especially as there's no GS cooldown reduction trait now. Though I left Zerker out as both it an the Duelist are usually attracting a lot of hate anyway.

    On a separate note I looked at the tooltips for GS and didn't notice before that they moved the boonstrip from mind stab to zerker - kind of interesting with the trait, does each zerker strip 2 boons if they hit?

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    I recall the iMage being semi decent, back when Burn couldn’t stack intensity and was always 1 stack.

    Yeah it was ok, though the bounce again was kind of annoying. I like the new animation and possibility for interrupt, it just needs to be more reliable - so often it starts casting its cone in one direction and the opponent has long since moved out of that area.

    My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2020

    Without having looked too much into the combat log. I think untraited Berserker outdamages the traited 2 Berserkers when not hitting bunkers.

    It is worth mentioning that when I tested I had swapped to the 15% illusion damage so I’m sure that adds to the disparity.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Without having looked too much into the combat log. I think untraited Berserker outdamages the traited 2 Berserkers when not hitting bunkers.

    It is worth mentioning that when I tested I had swapped to the 15% illusion damage so I’m sure that adds to the disparity.

    On average I hit 5k crit with one zerker, with two I crit on average for 2.5k each, it's a do you rather do 100% damage or 2x50% damage, apart from MB 2 bounces it's a useless trait.

    The degenerate

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Without having looked too much into the combat log. I think untraited Berserker outdamages the traited 2 Berserkers when not hitting bunkers.

    It is worth mentioning that when I tested I had swapped to the 15% illusion damage so I’m sure that adds to the disparity.

    0.67*2= 1.33 vs 1.15 so GS trait gives more dmg still than empowered illusions.

    // Yanim

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Without having looked too much into the combat log. I think untraited Berserker outdamages the traited 2 Berserkers when not hitting bunkers.

    It is worth mentioning that when I tested I had swapped to the 15% illusion damage so I’m sure that adds to the disparity.

    0.67*2= 1.33 vs 1.15 so GS trait gives more dmg still than empowered illusions.

    What you haven’t factored in is that you also do 2 armor checks instead of one.

  • Gryxis.6950Gryxis.6950 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Without having looked too much into the combat log. I think untraited Berserker outdamages the traited 2 Berserkers when not hitting bunkers.

    It is worth mentioning that when I tested I had swapped to the 15% illusion damage so I’m sure that adds to the disparity.

    0.67*2= 1.33 vs 1.15 so GS trait gives more dmg still than empowered illusions.

    What you haven’t factored in is that you also do 2 armor checks instead of one.

    Except that the damage reduction coming from the armor is relative, not absolute as far as I'm aware, so it doesn't matter

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Without having looked too much into the combat log. I think untraited Berserker outdamages the traited 2 Berserkers when not hitting bunkers.

    It is worth mentioning that when I tested I had swapped to the 15% illusion damage so I’m sure that adds to the disparity.

    0.67*2= 1.33 vs 1.15 so GS trait gives more dmg still than empowered illusions.

    What you haven’t factored in is that you also do 2 armor checks instead of one.

    Except that the damage reduction coming from the armor is relative, not absolute as far as I'm aware, so it doesn't matter

    Not relative, just simple math if you’re playing the odds.

  • Gryxis.6950Gryxis.6950 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Without having looked too much into the combat log. I think untraited Berserker outdamages the traited 2 Berserkers when not hitting bunkers.

    It is worth mentioning that when I tested I had swapped to the 15% illusion damage so I’m sure that adds to the disparity.

    0.67*2= 1.33 vs 1.15 so GS trait gives more dmg still than empowered illusions.

    What you haven’t factored in is that you also do 2 armor checks instead of one.

    Except that the damage reduction coming from the armor is relative, not absolute as far as I'm aware, so it doesn't matter

    Not relative, just simple math if you’re playing the odds.

    I'm not sure to understand what you mean. When I said armor reduction is relative, not absolute, I meant that the reduction is a percentage of the initial hit(s) and not a flat number, so whether you do one hit or two the reduction will be at the same percentage (therefore the number of hit does not matter). I am not english so perhaps that wasn't the proper term

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    First of all, people that agrue that 1x berk deals MORE damage then 2 berks are wrong.
    0,66x2=1,32.
    1x0,15=1,15
    1,32/1,15=1,15.
    Meaning that double berk deals 15% more damge.
    There is couple of things that COULD change your perception of it. Or potentially damage.
    1 Both damages overlap eachother. so if you land 1 berk for 5k and 2 berks one for 2,5k and another for 3,5k. You just see mush of numbers and 3,5k is on top. While in truth you did 6k.
    2 When 2 used they kinda miss more often ( its just my feel of the skill ) no proof or any evidence for it tho.

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Without having looked too much into the combat log. I think untraited Berserker outdamages the traited 2 Berserkers when not hitting bunkers.

    It is worth mentioning that when I tested I had swapped to the 15% illusion damage so I’m sure that adds to the disparity.

    0.67*2= 1.33 vs 1.15 so GS trait gives more dmg still than empowered illusions.

    What you haven’t factored in is that you also do 2 armor checks instead of one.

    Except that the damage reduction coming from the armor is relative, not absolute as far as I'm aware, so it doesn't matter

    Not relative, just simple math if you’re playing the odds.

    I'm not sure to understand what you mean. When I said armor reduction is relative, not absolute, I meant that the reduction is a percentage of the initial hit(s) and not a flat number, so whether you do one hit or two the reduction will be at the same percentage (therefore the number of hit does not matter). I am not english so perhaps that wasn't the proper term

    Multiple hits allow options for counterplay, random aegis proc, prot, dodge, whatnot.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Without having looked too much into the combat log. I think untraited Berserker outdamages the traited 2 Berserkers when not hitting bunkers.

    It is worth mentioning that when I tested I had swapped to the 15% illusion damage so I’m sure that adds to the disparity.

    0.67*2= 1.33 vs 1.15 so GS trait gives more dmg still than empowered illusions.

    What you haven’t factored in is that you also do 2 armor checks instead of one.

    Except that the damage reduction coming from the armor is relative, not absolute as far as I'm aware, so it doesn't matter

    Not relative, just simple math if you’re playing the odds.

    I'm not sure to understand what you mean. When I said armor reduction is relative, not absolute, I meant that the reduction is a percentage of the initial hit(s) and not a flat number, so whether you do one hit or two the reduction will be at the same percentage (therefore the number of hit does not matter). I am not english so perhaps that wasn't the proper term

    Multiple hits allow options for counterplay, random aegis proc, prot, dodge, whatnot.

    thats even bigger argument for 2 zerkers being better. since singular hits are smaller and they deliver more hits, blind/aegis protects for less on average.

  • Gryxis.6950Gryxis.6950 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Without having looked too much into the combat log. I think untraited Berserker outdamages the traited 2 Berserkers when not hitting bunkers.

    It is worth mentioning that when I tested I had swapped to the 15% illusion damage so I’m sure that adds to the disparity.

    0.67*2= 1.33 vs 1.15 so GS trait gives more dmg still than empowered illusions.

    What you haven’t factored in is that you also do 2 armor checks instead of one.

    Except that the damage reduction coming from the armor is relative, not absolute as far as I'm aware, so it doesn't matter

    Not relative, just simple math if you’re playing the odds.

    I'm not sure to understand what you mean. When I said armor reduction is relative, not absolute, I meant that the reduction is a percentage of the initial hit(s) and not a flat number, so whether you do one hit or two the reduction will be at the same percentage (therefore the number of hit does not matter). I am not english so perhaps that wasn't the proper term

    Multiple hits allow options for counterplay, random aegis proc, prot, dodge, whatnot.

    The illusionary blade you throw when using gs4 tends to hit before the phantasms, so the aegis won't make a difference. When it comes to other counterplay options, as the phantasms hits are usually synchronised, if you dodge/block/invul one you'll do the same with the other one

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    First of all, people that agrue that 1x berk deals MORE damage then 2 berks are wrong.
    0,66x2=1,32.
    1x0,15=1,15
    1,32/1,15=1,15.
    Meaning that double berk deals 15% more damge.
    There is couple of things that COULD change your perception of it. Or potentially damage.
    1 Both damages overlap eachother. so if you land 1 berk for 5k and 2 berks one for 2,5k and another for 3,5k. You just see mush of numbers and 3,5k is on top. While in truth you did 6k.
    2 When 2 used they kinda miss more often ( its just my feel of the skill ) no proof or any evidence for it tho.

    It deals roughly the same.
    You won't see the difference with and without trait on damage.
    Useless trait overall.

    The degenerate

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    First of all, people that agrue that 1x berk deals MORE damage then 2 berks are wrong.
    0,66x2=1,32.
    1x0,15=1,15
    1,32/1,15=1,15.
    Meaning that double berk deals 15% more damge.
    There is couple of things that COULD change your perception of it. Or potentially damage.
    1 Both damages overlap eachother. so if you land 1 berk for 5k and 2 berks one for 2,5k and another for 3,5k. You just see mush of numbers and 3,5k is on top. While in truth you did 6k.
    2 When 2 used they kinda miss more often ( its just my feel of the skill ) no proof or any evidence for it tho.

    It deals roughly the same.
    You won't see the difference with and without trait on damage.
    Useless trait overall.

    Better than the other options for gs builds

    // Yanim

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The more I think about mesmer the more I realize how ridiculous the nerf to gs was.
    No more cripple, upped CD, less damage, no stun, no boonrip, etc etc. Yikes.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    The more I think about mesmer the more I realize how ridiculous the nerf to gs was.
    No more cripple, upped CD, less damage, no stun, no boonrip, etc etc. Yikes.

    If you take this into account it gets even more hilarious
    "In this update, we're making some changes to the greatsword and to the Domination trait line in order to provide a more reliable baseline ranged damage build for mesmers."

    Follow the phantasm 300dmg attack on summoning "it is to help with sustain damage".
    Classic ANerf talking out of their kitten.

    The degenerate