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Burning is abusive

anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

There is no intention of nerf on burning? It seems way op

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  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Burning is fine, it's only hurting but with good dmg, and you can remove it or block or evade attacks that gives you burn

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    how do u wanna nerf it? Put down the damage? Then its like bleeding, just with shorter duration.

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    @choovanski.5462 said:
    imagine not playing warrior and neutering burnguard with just weapon swap

    ??

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    actually fb and to a lesser extent burn dh have plenty of cover condis.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • When a certain class can abuse burning, then this class should be nerfed, and not burning itself !
    Damage is abusive too

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Burning itself is fine. all problems stem from the conversion from duration to intensity stacking. In doing that, ANet was either lazy or short-sighted. Instead of increasing durations to compensate for the lower per-stack damage, they mostly just increased stacks to match the original level of damage. The result is that when you apply burns from a single source, it's like having multiple of the original burning stacks ticking simultaneously.

    The fix is to simply reduce number of stacks and increase duration. With few exceptions, this would mean one skill provides one stack.

  • Lordrosicky.5813Lordrosicky.5813 Member ✭✭✭

    Burning isn't fine. It does too much on too many classes and stacks too easily. Burning needs a minor reduction then all condi specs would be fine.

    Necromancer 1 trick

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:
    imagine not playing warrior and neutering burnguard with just weapon swap

    Lmao yeah champ u get 36k multiple burns bursts being contantly applied while weapon swapping to remove 1 condi every 5 sec and see how that works out for u. Perfect talk is cheap example.
    Burns are definitely grossly overperforming right now.

    Yeah pull another number like 36k ticks out if you want anyone to ever take ya seriously.

    Except there a recent post showing just that, u kno unless its photoshopped and all so....

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2020

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    Burning itself is fine. all problems stem from the conversion from duration to intensity stacking. In doing that, ANet was either lazy or short-sighted. Instead of increasing durations to compensate for the lower per-stack damage, they mostly just increased stacks to match the original level of damage. The result is that when you apply burns from a single source, it's like having multiple of the original burning stacks ticking simultaneously.

    The fix is to simply reduce number of stacks and increase duration. With few exceptions, this would mean one skill provides one stack.

    Which doesn't work because if you need to buff a condy attack increasing duration increases probability of removal to the point where it does nothing.

    Its confirmation bias at play here (overturned classes aside). If it takes say 5 attacks to get that burn up, compare against equivelant dmg from 5 power attacks and you will see that power is more dangerous.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    Which doesn't work because if you need to buff a condy attack increasing duration increases probability of removal to the point where it does nothing.

    Its confirmation bias at play here (overturned classes aside). If it takes say 5 attacks to get that burn up, compare against equivelant dmg from 5 power attacks and you will see that power is more dangerous.

    It absolutely works. Just like a power build can't dump all their attacks into an evade, a condi build shouldn't expect to unload all their cooldowns and not have it be cleansed. The counter play to cleanse would be to only use a few abilities, wait for the cleanse, then dump more. This is nearly predicated on toning down power creep in cleanse at the same time.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2020

    Thrn that wouldn't be a condy burst that people are complaining about would it.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Gwaihir.1745 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:
    imagine not playing warrior and neutering burnguard with just weapon swap

    Lmao yeah champ u get 36k multiple burns bursts being contantly applied while weapon swapping to remove 1 condi every 5 sec and see how that works out for u. Perfect talk is cheap example.
    Burns are definitely grossly overperforming right now.

    Yeah pull another number like 36k ticks out if you want anyone to ever take ya seriously.

    Except there a recent post showing just that, u kno unless its photoshopped and all so....

    Wasn't that a minionmancer who went DS after a fire weaver stacked a ton of burning on the necro and minions. Going DS drew the conditions to the necro which resulted in the silly high burn stacks and tick?

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes burning is quite effective against players with a skillbar full of pve utilities standing still and pressing 1. I've seen that a few times. That's the same type of player that dies to power mirage these days.

    I haven't seen more than a stack of 3 burns in my condi bar for months. Is this even still possible when you are not afk?

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I clicked on the topic because obvious bait, turns out to be a serious thread... what is happening?

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Burning overall but also on Guardians is just another thing that went under the radar, it was pretty whack but avoidable in the past because of the sustain, with all the nerfs that we got it's been power creeping a little too much as people didn't really care for expertise either.

    None of it was changed, but here we had people complaining about 15 Torment when 7 burns which is easily handed out can do more overtime and faster on sage amulet. Damage is basically the same as before.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    Burning itself is fine. all problems stem from the conversion from duration to intensity stacking. In doing that, ANet was either lazy or short-sighted. Instead of increasing durations to compensate for the lower per-stack damage, they mostly just increased stacks to match the original level of damage. The result is that when you apply burns from a single source, it's like having multiple of the original burning stacks ticking simultaneously.

    The fix is to simply reduce number of stacks and increase duration. With few exceptions, this would mean one skill provides one stack.

    Which doesn't work because if you need to buff a condy attack increasing duration increases probability of removal to the point where it does nothing.

    Its confirmation bias at play here (overturned classes aside). If it takes say 5 attacks to get that burn up, compare against equivelant dmg from 5 power attacks and you will see that power is more dangerous.

    Except you don't have to hit someone constantly at CQC range, you can sit down and let the AoE spam do the work and with Expertise amulets gone, everyone has Power now and if you look it up yourself, burning/power without crits outperforms 80% of all Berserker builds with less risk. Guardians need to be looked into.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2020

    @anjo.6143 said:
    There is no intention of nerf on burning? It seems way op

    +1
    -i actually walked into wvw and was baffled and astonished....how can this not be taken seriously?-

    how was this not included in the hotfix patch??

    there is no serious urge of urgency to remove this Toxicity, that's it!!

    yeah, that's it folks!!

    -a bad design stealth mechanic is fine, a bad design mesmer/thief profession are fine, an elementalist profession having absolutely no identity is fine, +1 shot is fine, exploiting teleports is fine too...folks...everything is fine as always-

    nothing new to see here folks

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Burning does stack pretty aggressively, but it only gets heavy in bursts. Fight guards and FBs tactically and you should be fine.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Burning does stack pretty aggressively, but it only gets heavy in bursts. Fight guards and FBs tactically and you should be fine.

    Tactically is hard when 5 burn stacks that's easily achieved deal more damage than a typical power burst over and over. You can get rid of one and be tossed another one right away without much of a choice but to suck it up and die, the multi hit mechanic is cool but the end results need to be looked into, it's too rewarding for nothing and is basically the same even after the patch.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • FrownyClown.8402FrownyClown.8402 Member ✭✭✭

    Only an issue when paired with 4 other condi classes in a team fight. Condis are only a problem in team fights imo. Amount of condis applied far outlasts condi removal.

  • Hope burning and poisoning could be the core version: 1 stack, high damage.

    And another idea: buring and freezing should be only one of them on the same person. After all, fire won't be on ice.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Ele virtually does zero dmg outside burning...they have nothing left as they nerfed even arcane skill already low dmg, now you deal 600 dmg with utilities meant for dmg while a ranger pet deal 5x more dmg...yet people want more nerfs on ele...the class can't kill anything outside silver at this point

    This is why we look objectively at the core of the problem, because as you mention Ele, there's other people that also use burning and are not major issues, example being Condi Engi or Condi Rev.

    Ele is super easy to down if you have any resemblance of skill..dunno any easier class to down atm, if you get killed by a burn weaver you should point the fingers at yourself, there is no class I used so far that struggle against an ele..if anybody call me biased pls jump on an ele and video record it

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    Any player that is pro burn, doesnt play with burn build atm?

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think power damage is abusive ....it's way OP! How am I supposed to manage skills that deal 11k damage? I can't cleanse it like I would have cleansed burn with my million cleanses. Yes, I can dodge, but there are just 2 dodge if you are not playing mirage! Remove power damage from the game!

  • Wayne.6253Wayne.6253 Member ✭✭✭

    burn a problem???? ahahahahaha let's speak about torment?

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2020

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    I think power damage is abusive ....it's way OP! How am I supposed to manage skills that deal 11k damage? I can't cleanse it like I would have cleansed burn with my million cleanses. Yes, I can dodge, but there are just 2 dodge if you are not playing mirage! Remove power damage from the game!

    People that hit 11k with power has 11k hp, no cleanses, 2 dogdes, no evades, etc, you have to make ALL your traits for damage. With burn is the same?

    I just fought against one Ele, the guy has power dmg, burn, high hp, def and high heals, wth is that? The patch was supposed to make ppl to choose between things, how the hell this class can have it all yet ?

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I fail to see the logic in your "counter argument" - pardon me.

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    I fail to see the logic in your "counter argument" - pardon me.

    You can hit high with power, but you have to abdicate of HP, healing, defense, etc. With a build based on burn, do you need to abdicate those things? (Also big condi circles are an advantage to secure a node, so it shouldnt take the same damage in comparison melee atacks)

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Power skills also have AOE, and not every burn skill is AOE. And yes, you have to make sacrifices too if you want to deal enough damage with burn - as you said have to abdicate of HP, healing, defense, etc. .

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    Power skills also have AOE, and not every burn skill is AOE. And yes, you have to make sacrifices too if you want to deal enough damage with burn - as you said have to abdicate of HP, healing, defense, etc. .

    That is weird, I found an Ele that was tank, healer AND burner, alone almost killed the entire team and could easily hold an node against 2 player.

    All the time that im looking my combat log, is like 2, 3, 4k power skills and other condis and 18, 30, 45k burn. There is any explanation for that ? What im doing right with all the stuff and doing wrong with burn? How to handle it?

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2020

    @anjo.6143 said:

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    Power skills also have AOE, and not every burn skill is AOE. And yes, you have to make sacrifices too if you want to deal enough damage with burn - as you said have to abdicate of HP, healing, defense, etc. .

    That is weird, I found an Ele that was tank, healer AND burner, alone almost killed the entire team and could easily hold an node against 2 player.

    All the time that im looking my combat log, is like 2, 3, 4k power skills and other condis and 18, 30, 45k burn. There is any explanation for that ? What im doing right with all the stuff and doing wrong with burn? How to handle it?

    Remove/steal/corrupt its might stacks? Ele is a hybrid class by design, but isn't much of a threat without it.

    Edit: also don't stand in the fire.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2020

    @anjo.6143 said:
    Any player that is pro burn, doesnt play with burn build atm?

    Here. I play straight power damage nine times out of ten and am fine with racking up burn stacks. If people think it's overperforming then sure look into it, but I haven't seen a major, major issue with it as of yet.

    Ive fought a few burnguards since the patch and they havent been incredibly unmanagable. Yeah, if you pick up like 7 burn stacks it'll kill you if you dont manage cleanse properly, but they also have a hard time chasing you, so you can kite and come right back in most cases.

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    I think power damage is abusive ....it's way OP! How am I supposed to manage skills that deal 11k damage? I can't cleanse it like I would have cleansed burn with my million cleanses. Yes, I can dodge, but there are just 2 dodge if you are not playing mirage! Remove power damage from the game!

    Speaking of, there's an axe scepter mirage out there named Zips or something (He wears a standard issue mesmer mask and dresses in gray) performing really kitten well even with the mirage nerfs. Pretty impressive.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Ele is super easy to down if you have any resemblance of skill..dunno any easier class to down atm, if you get killed by a burn weaver you should point the fingers at yourself, there is no class I used so far that struggle against an ele..if anybody call me biased pls jump on an ele and video record it

    I fought a Dagger Dagger Weaver named Hm Ok on grieving and cele. He's pretty strong.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:
    imagine not playing warrior and neutering burnguard with just weapon swap

    Lmao yeah champ u get 36k multiple burns bursts being contantly applied while weapon swapping to remove 1 condi every 5 sec and see how that works out for u. Perfect talk is cheap example.
    Burns are definitely grossly overperforming right now.

    hey man, you're crying in the forum about burns- m not dude. seems like it's working fine

    smh so salty

    must be really taking a toll getting farmed by all these condi builds

    It's coming for me through the trees
    Help me someone
    Help me please
    Take my shoes off and throw them in the lake

  • Serenity.6304Serenity.6304 Member ✭✭✭

    Question to necro mains (with classic build not the signet tanky one): Due to huge impact of burning, is it a good choice to use the trait dhuumfire instead of eternal life in the soul reaping line? I do more dmg but using it feels clunky cus of slooow cast time...

    ~ Miyu Chan / twitch miyu_chan_serenity

  • pninak.1069pninak.1069 Member ✭✭✭

    I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

    for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @pninak.1069 said:
    I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

    for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Fire
    this alone is about 9k burn dmg.
    1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...
    oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

  • pninak.1069pninak.1069 Member ✭✭✭

    yea sure it does 9k burn over the entire duration, but it doesn reach a 11k dmg tick in one second.

  • Erzian.5218Erzian.5218 Member ✭✭✭

    @Serenity.6304 said:
    Due to huge impact of burning, is it a good choice to use the trait dhuumfire instead of eternal life in the soul reaping line? I do more dmg but using it feels clunky cus of slooow cast time...

    just pay attention to how many lifeblasts you are hitting. Unless the answer is a lot, dhuum fire isn’t worth it. Tbh I always thought the trait sucked ever since they reworked it’s broken form to what it is now. I’d rather use crit+ferocity or the defensive option as better opponents will avoid/los most of your life blasts anyway (assuming they are pressured) as the skill is so slow to execute.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @pninak.1069 said:
    I want to know where players think 11k burns come from. tbh I think it is a blatant lie, because you forgot to count in the dmg part of skills which can do quite more than condis on top. condis are just the stuff added on the side. so for condis your dmg is far lower but it stacks together with condis leading to such myths.

    for example if I have 2k condi dmg burn does 443 dmg per second. so to reach 11k burn I need 11k:443= 25 stacks burning. this number is unlikely to get reached, because even with my 100% burn guard I can't get past 12 in pve.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Fire
    this alone is about 9k burn dmg.
    1 skill. dunno how the rest works but the fact that 1 ability can whack people for over half HP, with no cast time on low cooldown AOE pulsing...
    oh and a passive that does the same every 10s. :D

    How are you getting 9k?