GW2 WvWvW Memes

I would like to open a discussion about balance and how it affects WvWvW with the community. Every expansion has added better skills and synergies to classes over core specs. As the players learn how to use each elite spec we see that the game is introducing more powerful builds. Each of these builds counters each other in a way.

For example many people complain about scourges but as a nomad's firebrand using the tome of resolve especially but also courage. We have aoe condition clears on resolve 2 and 5 and healing thoughout the tome. And in courage we have basically permanent reflect on 3 and resistance on 4. Combine this with the mantra that removes conditions and stability shout of course and you even get to choose 2 of the 3 very strong defensive options core guardian has to further augment the build.

Of course it isn't as easy as facerolling the keyboard for dps like most dire condition specs but if you build for defensive stats with healing power, toughness and vitality you can certainly survive even full blob server fights. Of course we all knew guardian could do this but in bringing up the hard counter of scourge I would like to explain something.

If I want to be a viable support I need healing power there is no way around it. You can have all the vitality and toughness you want but without a way to refill your health its useless. This is where a sacrifice has to be made for the build to function. I personally run nomad's armor and play in a way to support my commanders from pinsnipers and ressurect them under focus fire.

If I were to wear dire armor I would do more damage to an enemy group and synergise better with the 1 push mentality of stack dps to win that seems to be the whole game's focus. In wvw the 1 place where I have always went to experience some form of teamwork I do not like this direction of gameplay. What sacrifice does dire armor make when stacked in a zerg of scourges? They corrupt enemy boons and give each other barriers.

A spellbreaker who is also almost permanently immune to damage if played well only makes a scourge stack even better. The focus on damage over healing is so obvious for so many years this game has been out. People say its boring to play healers? I find it more boring if fights last a couple of seconds.

Many people will call me biased as a person who wants to push my playstyle onto others. I'm sorry if you feel that way but this game only recently with heart of thorns even included druid as a healing focused class at all. For many years it was run zerker armor or gtfo in pve. I guess at least condition users get their turn to have fun too.

But let us not forget an mmo needs many players so why not encourage all playstyles? I find myself seeing empty pvp servers and wvw even in T1 emptier because of closed servers. If you truly believe that dps is the answer to having fun then wouldn't everybody be content to simply bash away at the target golem forever?

I don't mean to offend anybody with this post I just would like to see more people trying to counter the meta this game seems to have. I love this game and only want the best for it and would like to see players not demand nerfs for revenge because of their own class being nerfed.

I have a few ideas to balance WvWvW such as stability being the old boon without the stacking mechanic so it would scale to blob fights. Also I don't how its even possible to fix but aoes can stack conditions on you for every aoe you're affected by. They ignore the aoe cap because they stack basically endlessly. Perhaps the 1st step is to simply remove stats like dire armor that are simply too strong defensively and offensively.

We all know some classes scale better than others in wvw. It will never be perfectly balanced but I truly believe each class has their place in roaming or blobbing. After all we all have many tomes from reward tracks simply make a new character and try out something new. We only learn and progress by challenging ourselves by playing differently than we usually do. Without the ability to adapt to new circumstances the human race would not have evolved to this point.

TL;DR: I don't think the answer is to nerf classes but rather change the game mechanics, split skills for wvw and nerf armor sets like in pvp that simply overperform. More power creep to balance power creep...If everything is overpowered is it balanced?

@getalifeturd.8139 said:Perhaps the 1st step is to simply remove stats like dire armor that are simply too strong defensively and offensively.Yes, perhaps it is exactly like we've been saying for years but unfortunetly the Anet WvW balance guy or girl seem to be constantly passed out drunk and unable to walk.

More op to counter more op just makes the fastest bomb win.

If anet cares enough about power creeping, they would have push out balance changes every month and not every 3 months.

GW2 years ago had less conditions sources and a few condis didn't even exist (torment and slow).

Basically over the years anet has been increasing condi and boon sources, condi clears, boon corruption, etc. Boon corruption used to be super rare and only a few necro skills had it. Now ALL scourge skills corrupt boon aoe. It is a constant power creep of everything. Boons used to be more scarce, now there are so many traits, weapons, etc that give boons.

Anet's logic:

Too much condi clear: nerf condi clear? No, Increase condi spam.Too much boons: reduce boons? No, spamable boon removal.Too much condi: nerf condi? No, increase condi clear spam.

Boon corrupt spam has gotten so high that it honestly feels like having boons helps the enemy more than it helps you, yet without stability you aren't getting anywhere near the other side of that choke. The only winning move is to not play.

@xDudisx.5914 said:Too much condi: nerf condi? No, increase condi clear spam.More like no counter it with more condi, lol.Last night I had a ridiculous siituation where we where fighting a scourge heavy group. Only about 20 peeps so not too big, but still, circles everywhere. I have my mesmer cleanse mantra up.

Get 5 condis on me, condi cleanse 3 of them - I now have 7 different condis on me and dropping HP faster than before. Instantly cleanse 3 more condis - I cant tell the difference because my bar is still covered in about 7 condis.

Dafuq am I supposed to do? We need icd on stupid condi application?

Thanks for the replies and discussion guys. The fact that I have to bring every condition removal available to me to be able to remove enough conditions in a zerg...Along with pulsing resistance until I actually need to use the condition removal. I guess what I'm trying to say is when you have to play a certain class with every available counter it gets a bit much for the average player.

People don't want to play a game that's not fun and with conditions it's either you have enough removal or you die. Especially in a blob it doesn't scale at all to the numbers. I hope Arenanet notices that the community would like conditions to be balanced somehow since they ignore toughness too unlike power damage. As you people said it's punishing to have boons and in an mmo...It almost discourages people to play together.

As a matter of fact, i completely dropped boon Duration. I don't see any sense in it anymore since everything about boons that is Lasting longer than 2 seconds will be stripped anyway.So nomad is a good choice though i went with celestial, or as a Substitute a mix of magi and crusader. I even dropped stand your ground. You really dont Need it in large scale fights. (can't tell much about gvg). I took the sigil of judgment which gives me another stunbreak, some burn and has a cooldown which is short enough to use it several times. It is quite hard getting used to it, and i am still not sure if the signe is the one to go with or if you rather should take another skill with more Utility like wall of reflection.

I really don't think that the Meta right now is as imbalanced as everyone is saying. The skill cap just got raised by a significant amount for certain classes like the Guardian. (Not you, necro.) If you are willing to adapt then you are quite fine with the meta.

@xDudisx.5914 said:GW2 years ago had less conditions sources and a few condis didn't even exist (torment and slow).

Basically over the years anet has been increasing condi and boon sources, condi clears, boon corruption, etc. Boon corruption used to be super rare and only a few necro skills had it. Now ALL scourge skills corrupt boon aoe. It is a constant power creep of everything. Boons used to be more scarce, now there are so many traits, weapons, etc that give boons.

Anet's logic:

Too much condi clear: nerf condi clear? No, Increase condi spam.Too much boons: reduce boons? No, spamable boon removal.Too much condi: nerf condi? No, increase condi clear spam.

Its because they're trying to "fix" a meta by using a sledge hammer. When WvW first started, Stability was king because of its ability to completely bypass lock down skills; with the result being railroading cleave trains. Bombs weren't anywhere near effective, because they aren't in there long enough to take damage, and Guardians and Warriors could clear condi with Trooper/Shout builds as they passed through. But when Stability was changed to stacks, suddenly you could stop a train with enough Ground CCs and bomb on top of it.... which lead to a raise in Staff Ele builds, Necro Wells, and the Pirate ship meta. To counter that, the meta shifted to boon sharing and Dive Comp, because Pirate ship is mostly squishy backline, and they needed the defensive boons to reach them. To counter that, front line shifted further to defense stats and relied even more on the binary effectiveness of boons and hard CCs to stop enemy movement, and let the back line bomb focus on area damage. Boons became core to that, as condi cleanses has to be used more sparingly with the rate HOT specs were restacking condi. Resistance was also a big deal in this meta, because well over 80% of the incoming damage was AOE condi.... with so few sources, the need to boon share for uptime became important.

Which leads us to now..... the meta is "too much boons", so Anet's answer is to have every PvP focused spec to remove boons. On the one hand, this was the obvious choice given Guardian's top tier role as Bunker; where practically all of its unstoppable durability comes from easy Boon application and condi clearing. Since nothing could tear through that, stripping them to make them vulnerable is supposedly meant to promote other classes to go bunker.

The next step is to do what they've been stubbornly avoiding for 4 years..... unique buffs over boons, which can't be stripped. And the only way to make this work without it stacking out of control, is to make boons less reliable and more bursty in nature.

starlinvf.1358 i doubt they are trying to fix anything bout that, they rather enforce something than actually fix, and game and conditins are designef for PVE, anythign that changers pve wont be touched.

This game as reached is limit, next expect more aoe condis more aoe cleanses more aoe boons... redudancy, and they will need to be better than PoF, to be the new coo kid gimmicks.

@Aeolus.3615 said:starlinvf.1358 i doubt they are trying to fix anything bout that, they rather enforce something than actually fix, and game and conditins are designef for PVE, anythign that changers pve wont be touched.

This game as reached is limit, next expect more aoe condis more aoe cleanses more aoe boons... redudancy, and they will need to be better than PoF, to be the new coo kid gimmicks.

Indeed

--don't forget Anet 'balance' meta's rotations: power>condi>bunkerannouncement of cele-bunker arriving soon

If you guys truly hated this game so much you would move on and play other games...Instead there are so many people that stay on the forums simply to hate on the game. I know people have passion for this game and want it to be balanced more often. But that won't be achieved by telling people to quit and give up. Apathy is not a solution to anything.

I've seen some people often mention Elder Scrolls online as a more competitive game. I myself have played this game and completed veteran maelstrom arena on a magicka sorcerer. The gameplay was the most repetitive thing I've ever experienced in an mmo. Spam health shield spells constantly to survive 1 shots while basically dropping aoes at your feet. I've seen other classes in Eso have to do pretty much the same except blocking attacks with their shield or dodging.

At least in Guild Wars 2 we have more varied gameplay because we do not rely on a magicka/stamina system for most classes. Instead its based on cooldowns which means that in fact you cannot spam as you would in Eso. Also in Eso there is no aoe limit in its wvw system in Cyrodil. This enforces a meta where the most aoes wins and there's even a destruction ultimate that follows your character allowing no thought to land the dps either.

Eso can be summarised by health shield stacking, shield block spamming and may the best gear and champion points grinder win. I personally prefer a game which isn't so boring and Gw2 may have its flaws but at least it's a fun game to play even if it is catered to casuals.

I come from Runescape when I quit when evolution of combat was released and if there's a boring combat system then Rs3 is it. We don't how good we've got it until it's gone...I was addicted to pre eoc and the game was complex with many rewards from quests that were powerful and strong. Then the uniqueness disappeared when Jagex in many people's opinion basically tried to copy WoW.

If we want to blame anybody for the state of mmos nowadays then it's WoW's fault. First it was buy to play with the disc and then it was subscriptions. Then it was expansions and finally pay2win microtransactions. Greed will ruin gaming when its more about the profit than the content and making a fun game...

@getalifeturd.8139 said:If you guys truly hated this game so much you would move on and play other games...Instead there are so many people that stay on the forums simply to hate on the game. I know people have passion for this game and want it to be balanced more often. But that won't be achieved by telling people to quit and give up. Apathy is not a solution to anything.

I think ur reading it wrong, no one is telling players to quit, problem is ANet ideals... that are not doing a good job, ATM following ANet feels like the car seller that says amazing stuff for their product it has everything but they only sold half of the car, or any time car goes to factory they say its improved but ends with more problems that will requires more fixes...

(p.s i got nothing against car sellers)

i actually already started to play 2 other pve games and both are very old (atm having little time to decide wich ill keep playing), but i like to play with some players on this game on WvW once in a while(my server already lost alot of players that stoped playing, and when the current players stop wvw ill probably quit the game).

It cringes to see how can some dev's or game designer have their hand and feet tied, anythign that was bad implemented ANet rather enforces its use than actually it fixes, and when they said they fix or improve its more like 2 steps back that will require further atention and fixes than anything good....Gw2 ended to be a pretty game but not a good game

Gw2 as reached the limit...with the current class design and game ideal, even on visual clutter due skill spam the game is very ugly to watch....from outside...

Its slightly worse then that.... and one thats been plaguing the MMO industry as a whole; Studios either can't, or even refuse to, refine a solid identity out of fear of alienating too much market share. Its something uniquely crippling to MMO games, as they need both well defined identities AND mass appeal to sustain themselves.

GW1 accomplished its goals through its Buildcraft; but its combat system isn't fluid enough to survive against Action RPGs. It was the right choice, even if it came at the cost of some of the buildcraft potential of Dual Classing. Our problems (GW2), however, are very heavily rooted in the Stat system, which was added to conform to MMORPG norms of "bigger numbers" (which is partly why all our base stats are 1000, when smaller scales could just as easily work). The side effect of this has evolved into this mess of "bigger numbers", which hit a new Peak with POF given the amount of unique multipliers, unique buffs, Stacking effects, and the sheer number of "things" that are currently overrunning the buff bar of the UI.
Previously I found one of this game's biggest saving graces was its minimalist approach to Upkeep modifiers, and kept most of it in passive traits...... thats actually a Big deal when you consider its PvP roots, to keep the UI (especially the status of your target) as coherent as possible. The system is regressing into a skill spamming game like WoW, but its defensive side is still caught in Active Mitigation setup from its original design...... which is why WvW kept evolving the way it did.

But the previous poster blamed WoW as being the source of the problem.... but thats not entirely accurate. WoW's hooks are Social, not Mechanical; thus cloning it doesn't result in success. However, GW2 had a better (or at least more Modern) mechanical system which proactively promotes socially cooperative game play. The thing here is that Anet didn't know how to respond to its popularity; and the community itself didn't understand the dynamic to convey things in Feedback. What followed (only in hindsight) can be best described as a lack of a Show Runner to keep things coherent. I've seen the Dev's flip flop between half-implemented good ideas, to outright ignoring problems, both of which eventually compound into frustration on both sides of the situation. Players of all types saw the potential in the game..... but the constant fighting to drag it in different directions never helped the design process find underlying issues. In fact, a lot of it gets muddied because consensus is often conflated as being rigorously proven. Though I'd argue you have to find the right people to ask, as top tier players are both a wealth of information, but invariably jaded in their view points.

Right now the Game is at the strongest design its ever been..... but thats largely because its hugely focused on one thing right now... PvE content. WvW is suffering because its disparate from PvE's DPS scaled design doctrine; and actually could had been avoided had there been better Top level Direction. However, NCsoft threw in too much interference... and the game as a whole now suffers, years later, because of their involvement. I would even go as far as argue that PvE would probably be weaker, but the easier movement between WvW and PvE would had more then made up for it. And this isn't even scratching the surface of the whole story......

All in all, the game is still salvageable. But we're so hamstrung from 3 years of not having a solid direction, that'll take at least a few more years to sort out all the systemic issues in the game. PvE is where it needs to be now..... but WvW is currently collateral damage, and in need of a bottom up assessment of how it operates to better mesh with this game direction. WvW's big problem right now is how it handles Open Field Combat, and how Siege gameplay exists as a separate concept. Just as a thought experiment- consider how the game mode would work with Friendly Fire Enabled. Aside from the obvious (it wouldn't), if you examine how it impacts behavior, it gives huge clues as to why open field and siege in this game mode keeps breaking down into blob fights.

After 5 years of playing WvW almost exclusively, one thing I can say is from my viewpoint WvW will need a big overhaul (insert salty meme here) in content and a huge balance pass on all classes with WvW only effects on skills.

Neither of those things will happen anytime soon, if at all. Though WvW is still a decently fun playable game mode and there have been some changes to systems what we need is content, not rewards or scoring crap. Class balance should always be a must as that's the biggest part for PvP in any game, but WvW content needs to be different and better. Performance needs improvement, WvW IMO should get entire map changes, bigger maps, make mounts for WvW, change up siege and bring new siege in, more objectives for all types of groups etc.

But today WvW is almost identical to what is was at launch. I'd gladly enjoy WvW more with absolutely no rewards if it had things like I described above.

"TL;DR: I don't think the answer is to nerf classes but rather change the game mechanics, split skills for wvw and nerf armor sets like in pvp that simply overperform. More power creep to balance power creep...If everything is overpowered is it balanced?"

indeed and the balance certainly has become power creep vs power creep: whomever with the most power creep wins...whomever spams power creep wins.

Toxicity vs Toxicity..... whomever spams the most toxicity wins.

That is not balance and Never will. Toxicity, Power Creep, Bad Design are the ultimate death to all Competitions.

(My prediction: by the rate things are going.......pvp+wvw game servers will shut down in 2018, leaving Pve fighting for its survival.)

(2019 will be the ultimate death of gw2 pve)

Extreme roles are bad because it becomes a counter vs counter battle. If somebody is running full zerker damage set then you need to either be zerker too or bunker up or condition them. The damage mitigation just isn’t enough to outlast the dps in this game. This means the fights don’t last very long unless you’re in a huge zerg (wvw) but even then pro guilds will wipe pugs every time.

Also base stats like toughness and health are different across professions. Stability, condition removal, healing, crowd control and dps is unevenly spread across them too. This means that some professions are more suited to “tank” roles. While others are more suited to “condition spam”. Then there are others suited to “zerker” burst dps.

This makes the game very difficult to balance because it is unbalanced to begin with. While yes it is true every profession can be any role some are more suited to it than others. The game can not be balanced except by numbers it seems.

There is many lessons to be taken from gw1 such as all professions having the same base health. Also healing being much more effective than it currently is. Then the pvp in this game might be more than just spamming of conditions and dps. There would be a true counter rather than just damage avoidance.

I think the biggest problem is balancing for different skill levels. Because some players have better reflexes or more experience playing a profession. This means that it is not even the professions that are unbalanced but the actual players themselves.

So what I have seen Arenanet do is make very easy builds like condition bunkers that everyone can use. Then there’s zerker thieves, elementalists, bunker guards, etc, that take a bit more skill. The main problem as discussed in Sirlin’s book is balancing for skill.

This is very difficult and he said that by giving easier options that can work, but don’t work as well as something which requires more skill. That is balance and I think Arenanet know this and what we have is a game balanced for different skill levels.

That seems to be the logical way of thinking about the metas of this game in pvp and wvw. And to me it does seem balanced and if people complain they simply need to “learn to play”. But that does not mean that builds that require much more skill should faceroll everybody either.

So in conclusion Balance is very subjective but if you balance for different skill levels it becomes much easier. And that is why a game can not ever be truly balanced. Because players and people have so many different skill levels.

The way we experience competition is by winning or losing. But also I understand that by being too subjective in our opinions of balance is bad feedback. By making the pvp combat challenging but also not too hard to learn creates a diverse pvp community.

The problem is when the game is objectively balanced completely without any player feedback then it becomes very unpopular quickly. This is why Balance is subjective because players who pvp want to have fun which is highly subjective. This is just my opinions of course because I’m sure that general balance is much harder than it seems.

Let's use the conquest meta as an example. We fight each other on small circles. And we have to hold these circles to win the game.

It’s not the condition amulets or boon corruptions that is the reason these condition classes are the best. It’s simply the fact that everything else that could counter the Conquest Meta has been nerfed by Arenanet to make way for Esports.

Instead of a power based twitch reaction time meta we have an abundance of conditions and passive gameplay. We have area of effect skills ticking away on a point. We have Bunker Specs putting out enough damage to kill players.

Why is this? Because Arenanet has slowly nerfed burst damage and replaced active damage mitigation with passive invulnerabilities. Now instead of dodging power based attacks with well timed evades we have classes running max AOE condition bunkers.

These condition classes are dominating because other classes cannot bring enough sustain to compete with them. They are kings of conditions and AOE at the same time with the best ability to stack boons.

You want to know why this game isn’t an ESport Arenanet? Because you catered too much to casuals and made this game too simple. If we had Monks they at least could heal the other classes without sustain directly instead of them slowly dying to AOE and conditions.

I call this game Gank Wars 2 and there’s a simple reason why. Immobilise stacking, Stun/Daze chaining and CC spam is neverending and only certain classes have enough Stability or condition removals to escape.

There is a general lack of sustain and too much dps (both conditions and power). What is the counter to DPS? Nothing…but in GuildWars 1 it was a Monk and that is why this game lacks depth. Dodge rolls aren’t a replacement for healing and protection that a monk class would offer.

I find it funny when people assume GW1 was only theorycrafting builds and counters. The combat was just as if not more active than GW2. The fact is it had interrupts and hexes (based around punishing enemy for spamming). Proper protection and healing spells (able to almost full heal from a spike of dps). Along with Conditions, Melee and kiting, Aoes, block skills/spells and teleports. Also I probably need to mention you couldn’t just spam skills either. They were reliant on energy which you had a supply of and when you ran out it had to regenerate.

^ There’s an example of what is possible with monks. Also here’s a list of monk spells in gw1: “Monks…with their unparalleled gift for keeping their allies alive” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_monk_skills

Just some ideas and my opinion about the different builds. Since the meta seems to be either extreme conditions bunker or burst spike with not much room in the middle. I’m hoping healing support can be made more viable instead of people just seeing green numbers but not getting any loot.

Bunker and support do very little damage unless they’re a hybrid to do conditions but you generally need some healing power to be a good support player.

Arenanet are buffing support healing and I am glad for it. Problem is most of the full zerker burst spike damage just cannot be outhealed. There’s not much you can do to mitigate the damage either apart from your main heal, dodges, blocks, invulns and evades.

A full zerker amulet player will die in a couple of hits yet can 1shot other players, while a full on bunker such as a guardian can tank hits from multiple players. Also the condition guys in the middle cant really be blamed either since he needs to tank and do some dps through the toughness of the bunkers.

Even Monks can die and be pressured from burst damage as seen in the video but most importantly it gives a real counter to spamming of dps (either conditions or power damage). Right now it’s just a race to see who can spam and avoid the most damage to win hence we have all these “passive” condition builds and burst spikes that rely on being invulnerable.

Boons run out and can be stripped not to mention if the player isn’t in bunker gear they won’t be enough usually unless they have a good amount of toughness. Healing and condition removal is what keeps you alive in an actual fight and it seems to only work in wvw with lots of players running support.

Evades/dodges, condition removal, block and invulnerable skills all have cooldowns meanwhile the damage just keeps coming from autoattacks and aoes. This is why I think this game would benefit from having a monk, to counter the insane burst damage.

What I want simply is a game with monks like gw1 had where fights can actually last longer than a couple of minutes. But apparently Arenanet decided that healers are boring and everyone should just kill each other with dps. Healing and Damage Mitigation needs a real buff if this game wants to have any chance at being competitive and balanced.

Fights lasting longer hones skills and teamwork with players. The best example I can use in gw2 is wvw where there is enough support and the aoe limit of 5 prevents players being bursted down instantly if they make a mistake. The stacking zerg meta is there for a reason and all zerker and condition damage does is make it even more needed.

Remember gw1 we had so many skills and different builds and they could all be used because they countered each other. But that didn’t mean that some builds weren’t better than others for certain things. There is too many players complaining that 1 build is too powerful but in my opinion its all based on skill level. Burst can 1-shot bunker or condis but they have more defense making it harder.

Do you guys want a game with no “Overpowered” skills and everything the same and boring? Half the fun of games is to have fun and in gw1 I sure had fun in pve with my shadow form tank lol. So in all honesty maybe try different classes more and try to learn all the different skills and how they can be countered. There is no reason for nerfs because you guys refuse to adapt to the meta.

I played gw1 had fun but this combat system is more dynamic being able to actively dodge and every class having their own heals. I just get bored of the whole dps wins everything while damage mitigation and healing is not even considered. I think gw2 lacks depth and with a monk it could easily have it.

Maybe I’m just the type of player that likes when I’m needed such as Shadow Form tanks in gw1. There are many other players that I think want to be able to feel like they can help the party and be useful instead of just another player. This is why I love healing and damage mitigation and tanking is so fun.

I truly believe Thief's burst meta with bunker Guardian’s tankiness and Warrior’s Healing Signet and invuln stances balance each other out. Also Engineer’s, Necromancer's and Elementalist’s Aoe damage controls conquest points. Meanwhile Ranger's pets and long distance damage can take out these targets from a distance. Mesmer’s spamming of clones also allows them to easily confuse an enemy long enough for them to burst them down. This is truly the best meta we can get and if you don’t like it experiment with builds and kill the passive no skill builds as you call them.

If some builds don’t have a counter then reroll to them since they’re obviously so overpowered and never die. Maybe try playing as a team instead of trying to 1v1 everything. Burst/zerker will die quickly that’s a fact. Would you prefer the meta to be bunkers and conditions only?

This is the state of the meta and Arenanet will not change it because it attracts the most players. Do you think that there is more skill to playing your build and everything else is cheese? This is called not playing to win and making excuses.

Everybody plays for or against a profession and thinks it is Overpowered. Well I am simply going to say that is your opinion. There is no balance when everything is “overpowered”.

Arenanet will not listen to your complaints obviously biased against certain professions. Because all you want is for them to be nerfed and your own profession buffed. I will link “Playing to win” by Sirlin now.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:Too much condi: nerf condi? No, increase condi clear spam.More like no counter it with more condi, lol.Last night I had a ridiculous siituation where we where fighting a scourge heavy group. Only about 20 peeps so not too big, but still, circles everywhere. I have my mesmer cleanse mantra up.

I had a random shower thought (probably bad since it might be a puzzle to interpret but I hope it makes sense, haha) regarding ICD on SPECIFIC condi application from player(s). Probably 'good on paper wouldn't work in reality' mentality yet I dare to wonder - would it be plausible to have an ICD against specific conditions only if it's from the same enemy who applied it? My most common scenario's have played out where I cleanse 10 torment stacks only to instantly get another lot on me from that same person after using a cleanse ability. Having an ICD so that singular condi isn't applied instantly from the same enemy might help with the bursty nature of condi spam on certain classes. I'd imagine it would work better in small-scale/1v1 roaming. On the downside side which I am aware, this may cause further imbalance with certain classes' abilities to sustain/tank (guard/warri) even more if they have an extra 0.75 time frame of certain condi application immunity.

It's certainly mind boggling to balance, unfortunately.

TLDR: ICD on incoming application of x condi from x player so you don't get insta x condi applied to you again from that same player after using a cleanse ability (0.75 seconds)

I agree with some of the OP points. Though this expansion is much more interesting than the last - Anet haven't kept an eye on the flow of combat since the vanilla game. I'm specifically referring to the power creep here. Combat in the vanilla game use to have more of a 'tug of war' kind of feel, whereas now, its over in a single condition spike and we see the return of 'pirating shipping' which I hope many would agree is boring to play. This type of meta also encourages less skillful play in general. People are right in saying that the addition of extra boons and conditions have not helped this - but this specifically, is not the real problem.

On condition damage - As an individual who enjoys 'damage over time' effects, I am glad condition damage is actually a usable play-style compared to the vanilla game, BUT, I will agree it has got far too out of hand. I have no issue with DOTS hitting hard, but there should be a ramp up window. The OP mentions removing dire gear this is an incorrect assumption - the issue is not with the gear itself, but with how the stat allocation [or lack of] for condition damage works. The base line right now, especially in WvW is that you really only need 'condition damage' as a single stat allocation to boost your damage, whereas, power builds require two addition stats [outside of 'power'] to even be close to on par. This, is what allows condition damage builds to do excellent damage, whilst also being able to build into tank stats at no cost to their damage output.A possible 'simple' solution to this, would be to lower the 'base' condition damage across the board for all conditions that produce damage, but, at the same time, allow them to critically hit. This would mean that condition builds would have access to precision and ferocity [but still provide a different play-style]. The only issue here, would be how to deal with 'condition duration' - but believe this to be a separate issue [i believe condition duration should be part of the actual build trees for condition damage, rather than on gear]. I truly think a change such as this would help balance of the overall game [if handled well] and also provide more build diversity.*Also is it just me or are the servers particular bad are handling mass condition spam?** The additive nature of conditions is an issue in WvW [its obvious], but, I honestly don't know what could be done about that. The game isn't built to have multiple single applications of conditions from different sources.

On splitting skills Do not do this. It is not the answer and there is already enough of this in the game. The whole 'PVE affecting WVW' argument doesn't stand true to me. All PVE builds are essentially 'full glass cannon' builds and should in theory be weak against WVW focused builds.

Overall, I think there is a little too much of everything right now - condition application, condition removal, boon corruption, boon application, CC sources ETC ETC. Things don't need nerfing, they just need toning.

gw2 player would cry on gw1 since they cant win with a sword on monk(they woudl be unable to understand why use of that or a -25 energy set even if they play the game for 3-4 years...), and they will call every one that interrupts instant casting hackers...

Gw2 is for .. i cant find even words to describe it.. the mess of the game they have putted together.This developers need to change the game.. 4-5 years and the game feels like a 10+ year game... old and oudated as f***..

Pitty that ANet quality is rather enforce awfull combat for carry players than actually change and improve, learn and see what they can fork up from gw1.

@Aeolus.3615 .,

Honest question: why post here? You find nothing remotely salvageable about the game, your comments tend to be extremely negative on pretty much everything, from game, to developers, to players.

I guess I can't understand as if I felt this way about something, it wouldn't be worth my time..

I mean, you own the game so you certainly have the right to post, but...

Well not all my comments arent negative, but tend to be blunt , its the game quality that pushes me to do it, and the lack of response of the devs to improve the game, with PoF as a WvW player it feels like i have to fight where nobody is due lag FPS drops.. etc.. oon a pvp enviroment i feel like ANet does not even care the pve skill design with inflict issues on other gamemodes, this is the things that cringes me :pensive:

And just playing some wvw while joking and trolling with players on the forum that show off build with 20k damage in 1 hits..has skillful and decent build.

P:S the post i made here earlier, it a bit of a joke of comparison of ther overall players quality in gw1 and from gw2, games are designed for diferent targets.

I propose we change the title to 'Condi Creep' rather than Power Creep. There is nothing about power that is creeping anywhere nowadays, except maybe down.

As for the gw1 reference, 90% of the gw2 player base would not be able to function in gw1. Different mechanics, no 'spam aoe and run in the other direction and win' tactics, etc. GW1 was on a hands on, skill-based combat, watching bars for skills, using interupts intentionally rather than spamming, etc.