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Druid: Suggestions To Improve Supportive Performance, Competitive Focus


Soilder.3607

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Hello. Now that the dust has begun to settle from the latest balance patch, and after having played support Druid nigh exclusively since, I feel confident in making balanced suggestions to improve the supportive capabilities of this elite spec, with a focus on competitive formats, e.g WvW and sPvP.

Firstly, support Druid offers substantial healing output, as it has since its release. With that being its biggest strength, Druid has tended to lack in a few important areas when it comes to support, namely boon application and allied condition clearing. Druids lack of boon sharing is by design, and this design can be further exemplified by Arenanets tendency to grant the Druid support options that are either unique buffs or non-boon buffs, such as stealth and superspeed, or the since removed unique Grace of the Land.

The newly introduced Glyph of the Stars is an example of Arenanet attempting to continue one of these past trends, i.e the preference for unique buffs over boons (Glyph of the Stars essentially grants a more powerful, unstrippable version of the Resistance boon for its duration), while moving past the other, i.e the lack of allied condition removal.

The suggestions below would align with Arenanets recent trends for the balancing of the Druid class. No suggestion would be a direct buff to any skill nor trait; all suggestions would come with tradeoffs as an attempt to continue the recent revert and avoidance of power creep. The ultimate goal of these suggestions is to make the Druid more competitive with other support oriented specializations, such as the Firebrand or Scrapper, in competitive game modes.

Druidic Clarity

  • Instead of clearing all conditions from the Druid, this trait will now remove 3 conditions from the Druid and 3 more conditions from up to 5 allies around the Druid, with an AoE radius of 300. This change would shift the power of this skill away from supporting solely the Druid to supporting himself and his teammates, thereby making the Druid more vulnerable to conditions yet enhancing his ability to cleanse his allies.

Verdant Etching

  • The Lesser Seed of Life spawned by this skill will now remove 2 conditions instead of 1, and its base heal will be lowered by 10%. A simple change to enhance the Druids ability to cleanse his allies while making Glyph more appealing.

Sublime Conversion

  • This skill will no longer grant regeneration to allies. Instead, allies that pass through the barrier will receive protection for 4 seconds, and enemies that pass through the barrier will receive weakness for 4 seconds. Its base healing will be reduced by 33%. This change will place a superior boon in the hands of the Druid by replacing the easily accessible (for the ranger) regeneration with protection. The base healing of the skill itself will see a significant reduction in exchange.

Seed of Life

  • The radius of this skill will be increased to 240. Correspondingly, the blind duration will be reduced to 3 seconds. This radius increase is significant enough to make Seed of Life a much more reliable tool for cleansing allies, as the prior radius of 180 is limited. It is now much more likely to affect its total potential of 5 targets.

Lingering Light

  • When entering Celestial Avatar mode, instead of your next attack blinding your foe and healing yourself, up to 5 enemies near you are immediately blinded for 4 seconds at a radius of 300. The 50% increase in healing to allies would remain the same. This trait has a design flaw in that entering Celestial Avatar mode removes much of your ability to attack enemies by replacing your skill bar with Celestial Avatar skills. The Lingering Light effect as it is now only lasts for 5 seconds, during which time it is likely that the Druid will spend most of his time healing and not attacking foes, wasting some potential of the trait.

That is all, thanks.

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@Soilder.3607 said:

Druidic Clarity

  • Instead of clearing all conditions from the Druid, this trait will now remove 3 conditions from the Druid and 3 more conditions from up to 5 allies around the Druid, with an AoE radius of 300. This change would shift the power of this skill away from supporting solely the Druid to supporting himself and his teammates, thereby making the Druid more vulnerable to conditions yet enhancing his ability to cleanse his allies.

A neat idea for increasing its appeal for a support choice, although I don't know how severely this would impact non-support Druids. Wondering what others think of this idea.

Verdant Etching

  • The Lesser Seed of Life spawned by this skill will now remove 2 conditions instead of 1, and its base heal will be lowered by 10%. A simple change to enhance the Druids ability to cleanse his allies while making Glyph more appealing.

Personally I find it fair that the lesser version only cleanses one condition considering it is a master and not a grandmaster trait, and the seeds still leave a light field. My idea would instead have the trait increase lesser and normal Seed of Life to 240 radius. I would also like the seeds to bloom ~0.25s faster, untraited. In general though, I agree with your direction of wanting to make the seeds become more reliable. I would say that is a problem for CA1 as well: numbers-wise I'd argue that it's fine considering it is a 1200 range heal, but it is extremely hard to actually land and get value from if the target is moving.

Sublime Conversion

  • This skill will no longer grant regeneration to allies. Instead, allies that pass through the barrier will receive protection for 4 seconds, and enemies that pass through the barrier will receive weakness for 4 seconds. Its base healing will be reduced by 33%. This change will place a superior boon in the hands of the Druid by replacing the easily accessible (for the ranger) regeneration with protection. The base healing of the skill itself will see a significant reduction in exchange.

Honestly I really like having regen on the skill considering how potent it can be for Druids while in CA. It is a nice way of diversifying access to the boon and a change that I really am happy that they made. I would really love for the skill to instead be a dome or ring effect in order to increase its versatility. As for the protection: well I'd like for Ancestral Grace to provide prot to allies (not self) affected by the heal. The removal of the evade was a huge blow to the skill, and having it only apply to allies would help keep its bunker potential in check.

Lingering Light

  • When entering Celestial Avatar mode, instead of your next attack blinding your foe and healing yourself, up to 5 enemies near you are immediately blinded for 4 seconds at a radius of 300. The 50% increase in healing to allies would remain the same. This trait has a design flaw in that entering Celestial Avatar mode removes much of your ability to attack enemies by replacing your skill bar with Celestial Avatar skills. The Lingering Light effect as it is now only lasts for 5 seconds, during which time it is likely that the Druid will spend most of his time healing and not attacking foes, wasting some potential of the trait.

Your idea is much more elegant than the current implementation. Alternatively to a blind, I think this is the trait that could be made to ease access to Celestial Avatar, by perhaps increasing the astral force gain from healing allies (not self). This should be the CA trait.

Otherwise, I have some ideas of my own. Perhaps I am thinking too far in the direction of powercreep, but there are still things that I find to be rather lackluster as far as its viability as a support spec:

  • Staff is my biggest pain point with the spec. Staff 1, 2, and 4 are all awkward. More than anything I'd like to see this weapon improved upon (yes, buffed). I would 100% rather see it pushed in the direction of a strong standalone support weapon, rather than pushing it in the direction of it being a better power/condi weapon.
  • Glyph of Unity feels too weak in comparison to the other glyphs, especially with its current cooldown. Without completely reworking its functionality, I think there are a few directions they could go for it. One idea for the CA version:
    • Reduce its cooldown to 25 seconds
    • Have it also increase incoming healing for tethered allies (not self) by 20% for its duration. (Bringing back the old CA Glyph of Empowerment in a way that makes the skill more impactful, versatile, and worthy of slotting)
    • Perhaps the non-CA version could additionally reduce outgoing damage of tethered foes.
  • Glyph of Alignment's non-CA version just feels like it suffers from both a lack of creativity and identity. I'd like to see the skill reworked more, perhaps to remove 2 boons and apply poison and weakness or something. We already have plenty of immob access without this skill.
  • I'd like to see CA-Glyph of Equality get a radius increase to 360 in order to increase the reliability of the group stunbreak, which is the defining feature of the skill. I like slotting Protect Me in addition to GoE because the skill is much more reliable as a group stunbreak.
  • Core pets in general have rather mediocre support capabilities. I was really hoping that Jacaranda would be the new shiny go-to support pet before PoF was playable, but alas.
  • Certain aspects of the core class are a bit lackluster as well. Invigorating Bond and Spirits, for example. I'd like for the Nature Magic grandmaster choices to become more competitive for support in competitive modes, and frankly I'd like for a complete rework of Spirits. I liked the idea somebody here had of them becoming more like spirit weapons (with charges), but for Stone Spirit in particular to have a strong support emphasis rather than yet another immob skill for Ranger..
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Truth be told, the foremost reason I dislike the druid is not for its' lack of support options (except its' only source of stability tied to a core elite skill), but rather the utter lack of offensive ones.

In choosing the druid specialization you get little to no options for condition damage builds, bar the ancient seeds trait, staff simply doesn't offer any condition damage, just like celestial avatar. The boons it provides are either so abundant that there's no point in investing in boon duration (i.e. regeneration), or lacking (i.e. stability, protection*, resistance, aegis... etc.)

So stat wise you're looking at healing power and power**. As the ranger's supposedly the jack of all trades, able to adjust to any given situation, the druid specialization doesn't reflect this.

*There are no options to grant other allies protection uptime**Precision, Ferocity and bunker stats are a given. Condition duration can be valuable, but again: it's counterintuitive without offensive options.

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@JorneMormel.9850 said:So stat wise you're looking at healing power and power**. As the ranger's supposedly the jack of all trades, able to adjust to any given situation, the druid specialization doesn't reflect this.

Because the focus of the Druid is on healing and group support. That’s the point of elite specs, to specialize in something.

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@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:Because the focus of the Druid is on healing and group support. That’s the point of elite specs, to specialize in something.

My point being that the support is limited to healing and (mostly non-boon) utility, but across the entire specialization offers only 1 trait that would synergize with condition specializations, and not a single weapon skill (out of the 5 available from staff, and 5 from celestial avatar.)

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Most of the changes seem good, but the overall vision of druid getting more boon application I don't like. Don't mind changing a few things to protection for a short duration, but in my opinion, the only way to fix the support problem in this game(fb being the most flushed out Jack of all trades, but also the best at most things thus leaving most other specs in the dirt)

What needs to happen, is that all support specs need to specialize.

What we need, is 5 different support specializations ( not specs, but 4-5 things each spec has to choose 2 of )

Those 5 things being:

1: condi cleanse allies

2: raw healing allies

3: defensive boons like protection, resistance applied only at the right time before a burst, to make it more skillfull and not spammable.

4: other defensive measures like blinds, aegis, reflects, walls enemies can't cross ( this is what FB should be about, and it needs it's other supportive abilities toned down a LOT )

5: offensive boon support, like might stacking for short duration before his allies land their burst, fury, other class specific buffs that enhance offensive abilities to increase dmg or other maybe even CC last longer. Can also include just have a good CC kit, like shock aura share tempest currently has.

TLDR:

the idea here is, that no spec in the game should be able to fill more than 2 out of 5 of these roles.

FB should be only 3 and 5,Tempest should be 5 and 2,Druid is 1 and 2,Scrapper could be 2 and 4.

See where I'm getting at? That's exactly what this game needs.

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@JorneMormel.9850 said:Truth be told, the foremost reason I dislike the druid is not for its' lack of support options (except its' only source of stability tied to a core elite skill), but rather the utter lack of offensive ones.

In choosing the druid specialization you get little to no options for condition damage builds, bar the ancient seeds trait, staff simply doesn't offer any condition damage,

Why would the foremost reason for disliking a support spec being a lack of offensive options? I mean, once you accept the fact that it is a support elite spec, that shouldn't be an issue to begin with. Especially when the entire reason druid falls behind other classes in PvP and WvW is the lack of a decent support output. You already have offensive options for both core and SB, the latter is specifically designed for it.

Druid's biggest problem is the exact opposite. It's the fact that it is an elite spec designed almost entirely for support (which is fine and with the addition of SB and core ranger's lack of support, how it should be), but is entirely outclassed at doing it outside of PvE group content where it is simply carried by core ranger spirits.

The problem shouldn't be that Ancient Seeds and Glyph of Alignement are its only condi options, the problem is those skills being there to begin with. Strip druid for all of its unnecessities that has only made Anet nerf it due to its annoying duel capabilities and give it options to be played like it is supposed to be played. A support spec.

It's ridiculous that Scrappers and Spellbreakers can excell at supporting in WvW zergs while not explicitly being support specs, while druid is hardly even worth it in smallscale fights where the pet is still useable. The existence of pets to begin with is also dragging the entire spec down. But I doubt Anet will make such drastic changes as to make druid petless in exchange for a more potent support mechanic that still works with pet traits/skills in the same vain a merged soulbeast does, so whatever.

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I'd also like to see a change to the staff skill #2. The condi removal change you suggested on avatar sounds great.. I still miss that stun break though. At the moment my hardest thing to find with the current druid is where to bring a staff (outside of pve?). After all the nerfs it just feels like a very underwhelming weapon.

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@Strider.7849 said:I'd also like to see a change to the staff skill #2. The condi removal change you suggested on avatar sounds great.. I still miss that stun break though. At the moment my hardest thing to find with the current druid is where to bring a staff (outside of pve?). After all the nerfs it just feels like a very underwhelming weapon.

I agree that staff #2 is underwhelming. It is not terrible if used, and successfully landed, on an enemy player who is utilizing a melee weapon. Yet this is not particularly easy to do, and the low travel speed of the projectile enhances this difficulty.

I did not make a suggestion for staff #2 as I do not have any ideas in regards to buffing or reworking it. That said, I would prefer the skill to be reworked as some sort of ground targeted support spell, preferably healing allies while debilitating foes.

Guardian staff #2 received a similar rework while it was previously a fairly usable skill, chiefly due to the detonation ability which allowed the Guardian some control over the healing aspect of the skill. It's reworked version is much superior to the old version, healing and damaging allies and foes, respectively, with greater reliability than before, while also featuring new functionality as a blast finished.

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Yeah, Staff 2 is a very weak skill that has overall low impact for almost any aspect of PvP/WvW. Although I would like a total rework of the skill, I would be happy if they at least had it circle the player (Druid) if cast with no target. That way it would at least be a reliable AoE heal, albeit a weak one with a small radius. Staff 4 is another skill that would really benefit from some attention. What the skill does is great, but the cast time, travel time, and thin radius make it very awkward and often impractical. Speeding up the cast and travel time and making it a conal effect would make the skill legitimately good.

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@Lazze.9870 said:Why would the foremost reason for disliking a support spec being a lack of offensive options? I mean, once you accept the fact that it is a support elite spec, that shouldn't be an issue to begin with. Especially when the entire reason druid falls behind other classes in PvP and WvW is the lack of a decent support output. You already have offensive options for both core and SB, the latter is specifically designed for it.

Which wouldn't be much of a problem if I were to consider the ranger (druid) a jack of all trades, but a master of none. Offensive utility by means of condition damage ( i.e. poison, possibly confusion), immobilization and cripple, or in the best case scenario even stuns would bring more to the table because it would force enemies to burn their cleanses.

@Lazze.9870 said:Druid's biggest problem is the exact opposite. It's the fact that it is an elite spec designed almost entirely for support (which is fine and with the addition of SB and core ranger's lack of support, how it should be), but is entirely outclassed at doing it outside of PvE group content where it is simply carried by core ranger spirits.

The problem shouldn't be that Ancient Seeds and Glyph of Alignement are its only condi options, the problem is those skills being there to begin with. Strip druid for all of its unnecessities that has only made Anet nerf it due to its annoying duel capabilities and give it options to be played like it is supposed to be played. A support spec.

And by doing so, as it stands now, completely foregoing any utility other than condition cleansing, the occasional might stacking and raw healing? As for your suggestion to strip the druid of all unnecesary skills in exchange for more support, it'd better be some strong support then... Having said that, I agree the current options are underwhelming.

@Lazze.9870 said:It's ridiculous that Scrappers and Spellbreakers can excell at supporting in WvW zergs while not explicitly being support specs, while druid is hardly even worth it in smallscale fights where the pet is still useable. The existence of pets to begin with is also dragging the entire spec down. But I doubt Anet will make such drastic changes as to make druid petless in exchange for a more potent support mechanic that still works with pet traits/skills in the same vain a merged soulbeast does, so whatever.

The existence of pets have brought rangers down from the start and soulbeasts' lack of aoe have made their work-around neligible in WvW when taking into account the plethora of reflection other classes bring, when taking projectile attacks (as one of the very few options) into consideration. For melee options, there's simply not enough varied support (i.e. uncommon boons, boon stripping, finishers, non-pet combo-fields) to warrant a ranger, be it druid or otherwise.

I don't expect this to change and the suggestions in this thread would beeline the druid into becoming a guardian without the boon support, just with blind instead of aegis and stronger condition cleansing instead of boon support. While I did like the suggested change to Sublime Conversion and I agree that Lingering Light's blindness application is counter-intuitive to trigger on an attack when you would be healing, I don't see these changes alone to change anything about the druid's current stalemate.

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@"JorneMormel.9850" said:Which wouldn't be much of a problem if I were to consider the ranger (druid) a jack of all trades, but a master of none. Offensive utility by means of condition damage ( i.e. poison, possibly confusion), immobilization and cripple, or in the best case scenario even stuns would bring more to the table because it would force enemies to burn their cleanses.

At that point you've already doomed Druid to mediocrity. Being a jack of all trades worked out for Ranger in GW1 due to its primary profession attribute and the game's dual class system. It meant ranger could run several different builds and take advantage of other attribute-tied skills from other professions. In GW2 it has never panned out well, I also doubt it was Anet's attention to make it so. Druid should be designed to offer ranger a solid support option, not to add to its "jack of all trade-ness".

Stripping away stuff to make it actually perform as a support spec kinda implies that it should be a relatively strong support spec..

And no, the changes OP suggests alone wouldn't change druid's stalemate, it would just adress some of the glaring issues without doing complete reworks while still pushing it in the right direction. I think it is a necessity to tone down other support builds aswell to make Druid relevant. Purity of Purpose (engineer) is grossly overpowered in combination with scrapper in WvW etc.

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Been out for awhile because Anet kept hammering Druid again and again. Are pets still at half stats as Druid? Because that REALLY needs to go if it is. Any sort of viability (almost none) it had in spvp was taken away with that nerf. You cannot nerf a class's main mechanic... at that point just get rid of the pet.

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@Aylpse.6280 said:Been out for awhile because Anet kept hammering Druid again and again. Are pets still at half stats as Druid? Because that REALLY needs to go if it is. Any sort of viability (almost none) it had in spvp was taken away with that nerf. You cannot nerf a class's main mechanic... at that point just get rid of the pet.

It is 20% of base stats(not 50%) and it is much less noticeable this patch. Druid is viable this patch, not top tier but viable.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you're talking about WvW it still won't be viable until the pet is removed completely or stow-able permanently until you let it out. The reason why people run firebrands, scrappers, and tempests is not because of the things you suggested. You're more likely to run cele scourge than druid if you start adding barriers to it which eat warrior's cunning damage bonuses (+50% in WvW).

  1. If you run a druid, you need to build astral force. The healing is mediocre and not on tap until then. A lot of engagements are decided on sustain at first push and snowballs from there.
  2. You won't replace firebrand with respect to aegis and stability. You could run a hybrid firebrand with 600+ heal power and have 70-80% of heal effectiveness and still put out stability.
  3. Spirits are useless versus AoE and need to be re-positioned : it's the same reason why warrior banners that don't die to AoE aren't used.
  4. Projectile weapons aren't viable , neither is slow ramp condi which comes on dagger (2 targets) and axe mainhand. Shortbow poison spam (6-8 recharge) you might as well run daredevil. That's why soulbeast with Greatsword + stance share was a more viable WvW build than druid before Feb 25 patch ; with the hit to Maul + Worldly impact on top of the reduction to merged bonuses it isn't that strong anymore.
  5. The reason people run scrappers is stealth gyro + condi clears in bulk (5+ at a time) without necessarily a large DPS loss. You can run DPS scrapper and slot in elixir gun (which gives you a toolbelt stunbreak alternative to elixir U) + med kit or med kit + purge gyro.
  6. Tempest has larger heal range of 600 and staff tempest heals on auto attack ; staff tempest can still drop static field , geyser, and other combos (eruption blast finisher) and if running multiple equip templates can swap to meteor down siege on the backside of a wall.
  7. The pet runs everywhere out of stealth gyro let alone mesmer veil ; blasting smoke fields doesn't necessarily stealth the pet even if the ranger is stealthed
  8. Scrapper and tempest have ally stunbreaks and superspeed (Eye of the Storm , Toss Elixir U) which is a way to deal with stability being boon ripped . Celestial Shadow is counterproductive if you are trying to sustain because you need to drop out of Celestial Avatar.

Arenanet needs to stop taking suggestions from people that play only one class "exclusively".

"That is all, thanks."

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Yeah, Staff 2 is a very weak skill that has overall low impact for almost any aspect of PvP/WvW. Although I would like a total rework of the skill, I would be happy if they at least had it circle the player (Druid) if cast with no target. That way it would at least be a reliable AoE heal, albeit a weak one with a small radius. Staff 4 is another skill that would really benefit from some attention. What the skill does is great, but the cast time, travel time, and thin radius make it very awkward and often impractical. Speeding up the cast and travel time and making it a conal effect would make the skill legitimately good.

Staff 2 I don't even bother using. 4 I've found useful only when casting from behind you - never towards an opponent - even then it's hard to actually hit someone with it because of how narrow it is and the low duration immobilization really only gives you a few extra feet to be able to kite/create distance. With how slow it is to cast, I wouldn't be able to unroot the average ally before the immob wears off as well.

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@"Infusion.7149" said:If you're talking about WvW it still won't be viable until the pet is removed completely or stow-able permanently until you let it out. The reason why people run firebrands, scrappers, and tempests is not because of the things you suggested. You're more likely to run cele scourge than druid if you start adding barriers to it which eat warrior's cunning damage bonuses (+50% in WvW).

  1. If you run a druid, you need to build astral force. The healing is mediocre and not on tap until then. A lot of engagements are decided on sustain at first push and snowballs from there.
  2. You won't replace firebrand with respect to aegis and stability. You could run a hybrid firebrand with 600+ heal power and have 70-80% of heal effectiveness and still put out stability.
  3. Spirits are useless versus AoE and need to be re-positioned : it's the same reason why warrior banners that don't die to AoE aren't used.
  4. Projectile weapons aren't viable , neither is slow ramp condi which comes on dagger (2 targets) and axe mainhand. Shortbow poison spam (6-8 recharge) you might as well run daredevil. That's why soulbeast with Greatsword + stance share was a more viable WvW build than druid before Feb 25 patch ; with the hit to Maul + Worldly impact on top of the reduction to merged bonuses it isn't that strong anymore.
  5. The reason people run scrappers is stealth gyro + condi clears in bulk (5+ at a time) without necessarily a large DPS loss. You can run DPS scrapper and slot in elixir gun (which gives you a toolbelt stunbreak alternative to elixir U) + med kit or med kit + purge gyro.
  6. Tempest has larger heal range of 600 and staff tempest heals on auto attack ; staff tempest can still drop static field , geyser, and other combos (eruption blast finisher) and if running multiple equip templates can swap to meteor down siege on the backside of a wall.
  7. The pet runs everywhere out of stealth gyro let alone mesmer veil ; blasting smoke fields doesn't necessarily stealth the pet even if the ranger is stealthed
  8. Scrapper and tempest have ally stunbreaks and superspeed (Eye of the Storm , Toss Elixir U) which is a way to deal with stability being boon ripped . Celestial Shadow is counterproductive if you are trying to sustain because you need to drop out of Celestial Avatar.

Arenanet needs to stop taking suggestions from people that play only one class "exclusively".

"That is all, thanks."

I think you mistook the intention of my post.

The suggestions I put forward are intended to push Druid closer to parity with other support specializations in competitive formats, those formats being sPvP and WvW. I do not anticipate Druid ever supplanting Firebrand as the most important supportive character in a zerg nor small composition groups without considerable buffs from Arenanet, likely in the realm of a significant overhaul. The most likely spot for a Druid to replace in a zerg would be that of the Scrapper or Tempest. This would be difficult to achieve without significant adjustments to the Druid, but I do not think it impossible. Furthermore, I do not exclusively play one class. From the time of the patch, to the time at which I submitted this post, I played only support Druid, a mere two weeks isolation . I have played Firebrand in zergs; I know what it is capable of. I used to play healing Tempest pre-PoF in zergs for quite some time, though I no longer do.

My post was intended to be as neutral and unbiased as possible, with the suggestions put forth as balanced as possible. As I said prior, short of a significant overhaul, Druid will likely never be Meta in a zerg comp, though it is possible it may be returned to Meta status in sPvP, as it had been for some time.

Lastly, you're quoting of me saying "That is all, thanks." Is needlessly aggressive. If you cannot express an opinion in a respectful manner, don't express it at all.

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Lately a lot of players have been complaining about pets being too powerful. I have to strongly disagree with that.

However, in relation to this thread is what equally bothers me is to think of what will happen to druid pets. Nerfing core might just tip the Druids pet into making it almost a decoration.

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