Retiring Lich Form

Lich Form is an equally loved and irritating part of the Necromancer kit. While transform skills are incredible flavor, their inclusion in the elite slot takes away from other more viable options, particularly notable when the list is not large to start with.

Lich form is essentially Necro's Rampage.The problem with it is that it isn't nerfed much, like at all.

Solution : nerf it.

@Yasai.3549 said:Lich form is essentially Necro's Rampage.The problem with it is that it isn't nerfed much, like at all.

Solution : nerf it.

Didn't they just cut it's duration in half? Isn't 50% enough of a nerf?

@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Lich form is essentially Necro's Rampage.The problem with it is that it isn't nerfed much, like at all.

Solution : nerf it.

Nerf it again :^)

Doesn't need pulsing stab. Give it initial stab and its g2g

Necromancer already is a transformation class. Lich form should honestly be a skill that changes your shroud into Lich's shroud to give it some unique combinations with specs and some interesting synergies for core necro.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Lich form is essentially Necro's Rampage.The problem with it is that it isn't nerfed much, like at all.

Solution : nerf it.

Honestly, for sheer faceroll bunker, I've been having fun getting baked out of my mind and playing scourge. Of course, I'm a complete noob playing unranked solo queue pvp. But I can usually hold off other noobs pretty much indefinitely until i get dogpiled and focused down. Even then it takes time while I just occasionally cast whatever pops up.

Personally and this is my opinion, we should change it so that it doesn't get nerfed again.

It needs to be strong because it has 150-sec cd and 10-sec duration, the problem is that summon madness can absolutely wreck you with 1 hit with the trait.

If you nerf the dmg then it becomes an obsolete piece of junk not worth using anymore, because it has a 150 second and it would be pointless to use if its dmg got nerfed hard.

So options are change it, revamp it somehow so it can be used without some meme 1shot build that's going to eventually get nerfed into the ground.

@Yasai.3549 said:Lich form is essentially Necro's Rampage.The problem with it is that it isn't nerfed much, like at all.

Solution : nerf it.

It's been nerfed and reworked plenty in the past. I tend to agree with the 10 sec change as a way to prevent spamming a burst but there are other professions that need their burst nerfed even more. 4k on a skill with a big tell and long cool down with 10 sec up-time is not too bad. Just avoid the obvious for 10 sec and no more Lich. It's not like 15k+ out of stealth from a normal rotation.

I agree with Lilly. Lich is enough like shroud that there might as well be an expac that converts Death Shroud to Lich Shroud and replaces Lich with a more standard elite that is not a transform.

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Lich form is essentially Necro's Rampage.The problem with it is that it isn't nerfed much, like at all.

Solution : nerf it.

I didn't say it should be removed in favor of an elite spec. I think it should just be a skill that replaces your current shroud with its unique lich shroud.

Edit: this means while its active you wouldn't have access to death shroud, reaper's shroud or Shades.

how about we stop removing things just because some ppl don't like them. i'm still upset they removed plague form and replaced it with trash lands.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:how about we stop removing things just because some ppl don't like them. i'm still upset they removed plague form and replaced it with trash lands.

Weren't some of you guys complaining that summon madness was op in the past because of massive amounts of the summons and it got nerfed?

I don't want it to be trash, but I have a bad feeling its gonna get hit one way or another sooner or later.

Maybe I'm thinking of a different ability if not that had a lot of pets summoned, but it summons Lotsa pets that really kill players fast.

@Lily.1935 said:Necromancer already is a transformation class. Lich form should honestly be a skill that changes your shroud into Lich's shroud to give it some unique combinations with specs and some interesting synergies for core necro.

I quite like this idea.

In all honesty I havent seen anyone use Lich form in a very long time, it's kinda of garbage in PvE or at the very least nowhere near as useful as other Elites.Having it provide a buff to you instead that gives you bonus stats/HP could be a fun idea specially if it also replaces your shroud with Lich skills.It would certainly make for interesting combinations with elite specs as well, specially if Lich form grants different skills based on whether you're a Core, Reaper or Scourge Necromancer.

I very much like Grim Spectre, and summon madness could very well replace bone minions

@"Lily.1935" said:Necromancer already is a transformation class. Lich form should honestly be a skill that changes your shroud into Lich's shroud to give it some unique combinations with specs and some interesting synergies for core necro.

I like the idea but unfortunately it doesn't seem easy to introduce.

As for my opinion on the thread, I'd say: "Replace lich form by anything that is not a transformation and fit the spectral skill thematic."

Replace it with an Elite Well.

I don’t really want our last elite transformation to be replaced with something else.

Anyway, I’m not against a small rework of Lichform (maybe replace skill 1 and 2 with something else).

I also hope for the return of Plague, it was so much more interesting than Plaguelands.

Lichform in its current state, after the cooldown nerf, makes really no sense to me (PvP and WvW).

I propose these changes:

• Faster transformation.
• Lichform skill 1 doing cleave damage (600 range, similarly to Wail of Doom) instead of being a projectile. Damage lowered.
• Lichform skill 2 changed to do aoe blind or to remove conditions.
• Faster casting time and higher range on Lichform skill 3, also instant teleport when activating it again.
• Cooldown lowered to 75 seconds.

The changes to skill 1 would make its usefulness more consistent (right now its slow projectiles can easily be blocked or reflected).

The changes to skill 3 would make it more manageable and suitable for melee combat.

Replace lich form with a spectral skill with grim specter effect when it ends the player gains 15% life force.As alternative an elite well that destroy projectiles incoming and inside chill and weaken enemies on low cd

@NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:Replace lich form with a spectral skill with grim specter effect when it ends the player gains 15% life force.As alternative an elite well that destroy projectiles incoming and inside chill and weaken enemies on low cd

Better yet, keep it as a spectral elite (as a completely new skill in keeping with the spectral theme), but then add all the missing skills on all professions - our elite well included.

Replace with a power oriented elite, similar to how plaguelands replaced plagueform.

I like Lich Form, it is fun. It is also SUPER OP right now seeing that it did not get its damage nerfed like most of everything else. The cases where a part of each class was forgotten during the damage nerf are all overperforming. Spellbreaker F1s for example. Ranger pets are another. In this case it is Lich Form for Necro. Each of these need to get brought down to the current meta.

Lichform is not “super op”, it is generally nearly useless. After the duration nerf it got in PvP I really hope it can get a rework.

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:Replace lich form with a spectral skill with grim specter effect when it ends the player gains 15% life force.As alternative an elite well that destroy projectiles incoming and inside chill and weaken enemies on low cd

Filling up all the missing skills won't happen as long as Anet doesn't want to create a completely new skill archetype for the engineer.Problem is that every other class has access to 5 different skill types, while engineer just has 4 (elixirs, turrets, gadgets, kits).

The only "missing" skill for engineers is an elite gadget, they have a complete set of every other skill type in their arsenal. And it would simply feel unfair if other professions get 1 new healing skill and 2 new elite skills, while the engineer just gets 1 new elite.

So either they just give every class 1 new elite, or they go all in and give engineer a new set.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:Replace lich form with a spectral skill with grim specter effect when it ends the player gains 15% life force.As alternative an elite well that destroy projectiles incoming and inside chill and weaken enemies on low cd

Well never say never but for example engineer got the mortar kit added in 2015 so I'm all up for a new elite skills, also necromancer miss an elite signet, an elite well and even basic spectral heal. Anet should work on completing all the sets of utilies on all classes.Let's keep in mind also that engineer in the slots of utilities(not healing not elite) has 5 skills for each type: 5kits, 5 elixirs, 5 gadgets, 5 turrets while the rest of all the other classes only have 4 skills for each type. So if you create a 5th category for engineer should we just remove 1 for each category of them before granting new 4 skills or should we give 1 option more to all the classes on all the categories?