5y later, Smokescale is still the STRONGEST PET hands down.

I have played a LOT of ranger, and since it is inevitable that Anet looks at ranger next I want to bring up what I feel is the MAIN issue with the class: The Smokescale. Before I get to why smokescale is so broken, I want to go over the meta pets since HoT.

There are 47 non-aquatic pets with unique skill combinations, yet for the past 5 years sPvPers have used: Smokescale, Bristleback, Rock Gazelle, Jacaranda, Iboga, Snow Owl, Saimoth, Electric Wyvern. Those 8 pets are a middling 17% or the total, and only two, TWO of them (4.25%) are core pets. I get that you want to sell more Expansions Anet, but that's one of those things where the Xpac pets could be left OP for about a month or two after release, then brought into line. The obscene amount of time that these pets have been left unchecked is unconscionable. This is why I believe these pets are as strong as they are:Electric Wyvern: This is a FAST CC machine. This pet has 2 CCs by default, but the SB skills add to 2 more so that's 4 hard CCs. F2 is very hard to see coming.Saimoth: Unlike the Wyvern, this pet is (was) ONLY strong with the Soulbeast. The F2 grants 2, very useful, (effectively)no CD Drops that don't have to target a foe. The Pet has a 3sec Knockdown by default, though it often misses. The SB gains a 3 sec knockdown charge attack, a follow-up heavy hitting maul, and a stunbreak with 4sec invulnerability and soft CC removal.Snow Owl: This pet deals very heavy auto attacks and it's F2 is heavy damage+6 sec of Chill with a very short CD. This is also one of the most sticky and hard-to-see and avoid pets out there. It's weakness is it's health, but since the SB revives pets on merge, this is a non-issue. The pet class is mostly used because it's merged swoop ability lets the player disengage easily.Iboga: While I don't see this one much anymore, it had strong aoe damage and was very useful because of it's subtle 1200 range pull and immobilize combo.Jacaranda: This pet has quite a lot of on-demand utility for a Soulbeast. It can root a foe from range for long periods, dealing pulsing ranged damage. It can grant regeneration and resistance and Heal.
Bristleback: This pet doesn't see use anymore thanks to how many reflects are around, but it can pack a serious ranged punch that cannot be strafed away from.
Rock Gazelle: This pet almost has it all; An on demand hard CC, a passive charging heavy hitting CC, a merged charging CC, Heavy passive damage, Ferocious Archetype allowing for use of one of the heaviest hitting skills in the game. This pet is tanky to bootSmokescale: This pet is your one stop shop for everything you would ever need in a pet for GW2 PvP! Even without taking the Soulbeast Spec, this pet outshines the rest. Smokescale is very sticky, and will hit you most of its auto attacks. The pet will frequently attack with a skill that there is no wind-up for and deals decent damage. The pet is also evading the whole time it is using the skill. Also the skill follows the player no matter how far away they go. Also the pet gains might for the each hit landed during the 1.5s animation so you don't want to let the pet hit you bumping up it's follow-up knock-down and auto-attacks, so both dodges are needed to evade the whole attack. Also, after that attack the pet almost always immediately uses a 1 second knockdown that cannot be moved away from, even with superspeed since the pet animation happens at nearly the exact time the knockdown occurs and the attacks range is farther than the actual knockdown animation would suggest (Another dodge req ofc). Also, the F2 is a smoke field that, while inside it, the smokescale is invulnerable to incoming attacks. Also the smoke field will be used by the ranger player to gain anywhere from 3-12s of stealth and can be done so before the fight starts. Also the ranger can blind you using projectiles through the smoke field. Did I mention that the pet has above average Toughness and HP? WHEW I think that's everything on the smokescale. . . OH WAIT, There's Soulbeast merging! So, on top of all that previous stuff, the merged player will gain access to the same 1.5 sec massively stacked attack, a 2 second Knockdown, and a very heavy damage aoe leap finisher. Oh, also the player gets more power and ferocity while merged (the two most desired stats for PvP). Oh yeah and did I mention that the player can also activate skills while in the middle of the 1.5 sec evading attack?

So, how can we fix the state of pets in this game?First thing that needs to be done is that Smoke Assault needs to be reworked so that the pet and player version have the same wind-up animation that the rev has on his Unrelenting Assault. Secondly, the skill should either fizzle if any part of it is evaded OR the skill needs to deal the majority of it's damage on the first hit or Last hit. The skill needs to lose it's might generation. Takedown needs to be more dodgeable insofar as the animation of the skill needs to precede the knockdown by at least half a second and be clear where the player needs to be to get hit. Finally, the smoke field should no longer count as one for the purposes of combo finishers. There. I said it. Until these changes are made to the smokescale, the balance of this class will forever be insufficient.

How to explode pet build diversity:Remove the ability for Soulbeasts to revive pets on merge. Additionally, there should not ever be more than one CC for Pet Merged abilities.Many of the issues of Core game pets are in the AI, not the pet stats or skills.Certain pets with condition damage based skills, especially those with Condition Damage on their F2 need to have a bump in condition damage (for example, the forest Spider should need more condi damage while the cave spider could be left with higher power).Skills like the Salamander Drake's Flame Breath need to track the target so that they must be moving to avoid the attack. This attack in particular should have increased range and half the cast time.
The Felines are in a good place as they saw pretty heavy use back in coreCanines are in a decent place as well, but the Wolf should probably have it's CC duration reduced.Spiders are decent, but the tracking on their attacks needs to be improved to make them more reliable.Moas are pretty pathetic. The F2 Needs to track, have higher range, and perhaps a slightly shorter cast time. The Frenzied Attack should probably not root them. The pet should not use Harmonic Cry unless it, or a nearby ally can gain the full benefit of the healingDevourers: Faster attacks perhaps, better tracking perhaps.Porsine: The forage abilities of these pets are seriously outdated. First of all, The Forage ability needs to be on a separate CD timer for each type of Porcine pet. If I want to run a Pig and a Boar, I shouldn't be punished for wanting to do so. All drops should have 0 (or very low) CD so that the ranger can be sure that all items foraged can actually be used (Looking at you Skull). Additionally, all Foraged items from the same type of Porcine should have a similar function or at least be useful to players running standard build archetypes. It seems to just be a coincidence that the Saimoth ended up being as useful as it was in this regard . . . Finally, the charge needs to miss less often.

Okay, it's like 1:15am on the night that we are leaping forward and losing an hr, and I'm fighting a cold. I'm not proofreading or editing this. I'm pretty sure you all already understood most of this anyway, I just wanted to re-bring it to anets attention since they have a new person overseeing balance who seems to genuinely care. Cheers!

And now try to re-write this without using any exaggerations.

Oh, have you encountered the bird? 7k dmg and 5 conditions if it touches you.

Oh Anet…. plizz nerf Bambi, Dogy and Birdly!

Well canines were solid but their only damage was on their hugely telegraphed CC. And that got nerfed.

Cats and birds are kinda memey but are too squishy for permanent play.

Moa and devourer have never been viable.

Bear is for pve.

Spider is niche

River Drake had its day once but got nerfed.

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:And now try to re-write this without using any exaggerations.

No can do. Against non-outlyingly strong builds, these things are not actually exaggerations. Plus, I have bigger fish to fry.

Ranger Profession Pet

Evolution

'A pet automatically evolves as it levels up, and its specific evolution depends on the kind of fighting it gains experience from. Average evolutions go from Unevolved to Elder, but pets usually evolve from the defensive Playful to Hearty or from the offensive Aggressive to Dire. The easiest way to get a pet of the desired evolution is to unlock all possible evolutions by death leveling the animal in the Zaishen Menagerie Grounds.'

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger

Give Guild Wars 2 Ranger Pets the ability to evolve as its predecessor than we call it fair and square??

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Ranger Profession Pet

Evolution

'A pet automatically evolves as it levels up, and its specific evolution depends on the kind of fighting it gains experience from. Average evolutions go from Unevolved to Elder, but pets usually evolve from the defensive Playful to Hearty or from the offensive Aggressive to Dire. The easiest way to get a pet of the desired evolution is to unlock all possible evolutions by death leveling the animal in the Zaishen Menagerie Grounds.'

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger

Give Guild Wars 2 Ranger Pets the ability to evolve as its predecessor than we call it fair and square??

Sounds fun. Also sounds broken if the pet can be leveled up outside the match. idk if that's the case tho.

One of the better posts on the forums actually worth the time to read unlike others that write as much. Take the easy thumbs up.

Don't necessarily agree with OP's solutions, but he does point out the huge disparity with pets. Smokescale needs a nerf.

This post is nonsense. No offense but you have no idea what you're talking about OP.

I main Ranger since start of the game, played druid and soulbeast pretty much every game, which brings me to a simple conclusion. You're annoying by the knockdown, which is a strong skill, makes sense. But that's it. That's all there is to the pet. Many other pets deal MORE DAMAGE compared to the smokescale.

It's only over-used because of the smoke field, which is only a defense mechanic for the pet, the rangers just use it for stealth. THAT is why the smokescale is good, stealth ability for the Ranger.

Other pets (f.e. Tiger, owl, gazelle) deal way more damage.

@"lorddavito.2395" said:This post is nonsense. No offense but you have no idea what you're talking about OP.

I main Ranger since start of the game, played druid and soulbeast pretty much every game, which brings me to a simple conclusion. You're annoying by the knockdown, which is a strong skill, makes sense. But that's it. That's all there is to the pet. Many other pets deal MORE DAMAGE compared to the smokescale.

It's only over-used because of the smoke field, which is only a defense mechanic for the pet, the rangers just use it for stealth. THAT is why the smokescale is good, stealth ability for the Ranger.

Other pets (f.e. Tiger, owl, gazelle) deal way more damage.

Half of what you said, the OP already stated. They mentioned the heavy damage of other pets. They NEVER stated that smokescale does the most damage either.They mentioned the utility, as you just pointed out, and the fact that it's a very "sticky" pet that tends to land more of its attacks, which in actual combat (now my opinion) actually makes it cause more damage overall than some of the "1 big hit" pets.

@Exedore.6320 said:

How to explode pet build diversity:Remove the ability for Soulbeasts to revive pets on merge. Additionally, there should not ever be more than one CC for Pet Merged abilities.

How do you create diversity by playing a profession with one perpetually dead pet? How should the pet resurrect if it cannot exchange it?If soulbeast gets pet skills, why shouldn't he be able to use CC? If Ranger can use those CCs with pets, why should Slb not be able to use them himself with the only remaining pet? What is the explanation for this.

This post is full of contradictions

@Revolution.5409 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:

How to explode pet build diversity:Remove the ability for Soulbeasts to revive pets on merge. Additionally, there should not ever be more than one CC for Pet Merged abilities.

A good ranger player doesn't let his pet die in the first place. If it DOES die and they are on Soulbeast, then just stay merged. I should also have clarified that pets should revive over time, even while merged, just slowly. Well I also meant to say that pets themselves shouldn't have more than one CC, in which case the other statement I make makes better sense. Also, there was no promise anet made that the exact skills the pets use can be used by merged soulbeasts.

Most of this latest patch feels like an oversight, Dragon hunter longbow was comparable to ranger longbow before, shorter range, a little slower, a little less burst damage, but a little more overall damage.Barrage has cripple(soft cc) at every tick of damage, but also has high damage, DH LB 5 has a harder cc so the damage very low now, but you don't get the cc unless they eat 3 seconds or more of the attack, and they must be in the attack when it ends.Point blank shot 1/2 second cast auto aimed fast projectile skill, while DH has 3/4 second cast manual aim slow projectile with big animation(as to why this skill had damage before).Rapid fire always hit harder than true shot, but even bigger gap now even if you can get them to stand in symbol of energy.Ah but guardian is melee class so go fight that GS maul with a sword and symbol.Fought a 1v2 last night, downed their guardian(trap DH like I am), ranger resurrects him, down the ranger, guardian resurrects him, over and over because auto attack chain from berserk armor does less damage than 1 person resurrecting, and so little damage people sit in the cleave unpressured by the damage, so unless you can out play in a 2v1 to the extent they die from downed penalty whats the use anymore.

@Ovark.2514 said:

A good ranger player doesn't let his pet die in the first place. If it DOES die and they are on Soulbeast, then just stay merged. I should also have clarified that pets should revive over time, even while merged, just slowly. Well I also meant to say that pets themselves shouldn't have more than one CC, in which case the other statement I make makes better sense.

So how do I teach my pet to dodge Aoe or direct damage when I can't merge with him to save it?

How fast would my pet's HP regenerate? Because I would not want to not be able to use my exchange traits, finding myself with a dead pet because it has not recovered enough HP and is so unusable.

@Ovark.2514 said:Also, there was no promise anet made that the exact skills the pets use can be used by merged soulbeasts.

What does it mean?

@Ovark.2514 said:

@"HeadCrowned.6834" said:And now try to re-write this without using any exaggerations.

non outlying strong builds :)

barely any monthly AT presence in NA

"strong builds"

barely any representation amongst good players because other classes do better - cough D/F LR Ele , Necro , Condi Rev, FB, thief...

"strong builds"

:)

Oops I forgot to mention the Gazelle merged charge for it's point rotation and disengage.

Like half the pets in the game can't even hit a moving target without BM's speed boost lol. There's an old video of a moa struggling to hit a moving target until a mesmer hits it with a signet of humility, at which point it can. Mister Bear can't hit a moving target even with the speed boost, iirc.

I don't think it's necessarily a problem that there's a handful of "PvP pets" like Smoke though. Ones that have the most desired utilities/merge skills, stats, whatever.Not really realistic to expect every family to have a PvP use, and trying to do so probably ends up hurting more than helping in the end.

The fix just ends up being making its damage significantly lower, since it has a stealth, evade, knock, teleport, and is fairly beefy.

It'd probably be pretty unpopular for both fighting as and against, but I don't think it'd be a big deal if the ranger had to choose between a high damage pet that just does raw damage, and a pet that does very little but has CCs, blinds, stealth, whatever. Especially now with Soulbeast being locked to just one in combat.Someone would get the dumpstering by a damage pet and be pretty annoyed though since it's from an AI (can't really blame em, it feels pretty awful to get chased by a robot that can actually murder you).

Having said all that, I think pets would have worked better from the very beginning as entities that scale based on the ranger's stats, or have been relegated to mostly utility choice in PvP.Alternatively, you force the ranger to activate skills delivered through the pet, like GW1 ones were.

There's a lot of different approaches you could have made for pets, but a threatening, AI based one that can randomly outskill you with no input from the player is like all of the negatives of a pet class archetype with little to none of the positives associated with it.

@Ovark.2514 said:Oops I forgot to mention the Gazelle merged charge for it's point rotation and disengage.

Do not forget the leap of the canines, it has an animation that can be canceled, it is definitely OP

Delete gazelle please.

@"Thorstienn.1642" said:They mentioned the utility, as you just pointed out, and the fact that it's a very "sticky" pet that tends to land more of its attacks, which in actual combat (now my opinion) actually makes it cause more damage overall than some of the "1 big hit" pets.So your problem is that it's actually capable of hitting a moving target, unlike literally every other pet.

Wow, such a mystery why people keep using it...

Even after one pet nerf on SB we still got criers like OP talking nonsense. Takedown is perfectly dodgeable unless you shut off brain while fighting against rangers. 99% of times the pet activates right after smoke assault.If a ranger player wanted some damages from pets one would choose birds/felines for constant auto attacks or nice burst and cc from gazelle.The main reason why most would choose smokescale over anything else is it gives only access to smoke field.

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Thorstienn.1642" said:They mentioned the utility, as you just pointed out, and the fact that it's a very "sticky" pet that tends to land more of its attacks, which in actual combat (now my opinion) actually makes it cause more damage overall than some of the "1 big hit" pets.So your problem is that it's actually capable of hitting a moving target, unlike

literally every other pet

.

I have no problem with the smokescale. I didnt create this thread. I didnt say it was "OP" or anything of the sort. It would be nice if other pets could actually be more useful.