Perma-stealth thieves hiding in keep vol 2

[Svarty.8019]

No prizes for guessing McLain's favourite class.

[enkidu.5937]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@enkidu.5937 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@enkidu.5937 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:the differences between the portals has nothing to do with wether the thief can be caught or not

How do you catch a thief that is outside of the keep (but his portal exit inside the lordroom)?

Thief places the exit in the lordroom and jumps out of the keep: the cooldown of the skill is already ticking, though the portal is not being used yet-> waits 60 seconds-> ports back to the lord room, the portal CD is off, immediately places a new exit-> jumps out of the keep-> waits 60 seconds-> ports back etc.

if you have enough people that are good enough to hunt the thief inside the lordroom, they most certainly will also catch you doing that as your movement is even more predictable so you can be easier marked and put in combat. if they dont put a thought in how to get the thief, then even a huge zerg will fail anyway.i have been doing this far longer than we have portals, the portal just gets a zerg in incase the thief is inpatient, everything else the thief could already do.

Did you even read my post? Lets take the keeps on EBG, with a single wall separating the lord room from the outside of the keep. What exactly is predictable when a perma stealth thief jumps in and out at will through an invisible portal?

yes i did read your post, thank you for questioning my intelligence.ebg keep might be the only one were it does matter, but only after the portal is fixed. right now with that buggy thing you dont want to jump out too often.if just 1 or 2 clueless are searching for you, it doesnt matter wether you have a portal or not. thats why i started with:

if you have enough people that are good enough to hunt the thief inside the lordroom

that would mean that most of the keep is trapped, plenty of people around to pin you down once you show your tail and trying to track audio/visual tells.in such a case you will want to walk as little as possible. in most keeps were you would need to walk from inner to the outer quite a bit it will be difficult to prestack enough stealth that you can port back and run out again without any audio/visual tell and then you still need to hope they didnt trap the place while when you just stay inside and move little, then you atleast can keep track of your surroudings wich you wont do around the portal. IMO spamming portal on cd would not be the best way to utilize it. i would use it as a safety tool. meaning in case i get into a trap i will walk a bit or shadow step, place the portal and mount up, trigger as much as i can, might even jump out and go back again with now a much larger safezone.

I still don't know what you are talking about, when looking at this:https://www.twitch.tv/videos/461573055(at 03:47:30)

Spamming portal is used to avoid getting constantly marked on the mini map, after the enemy took your keep and you want to flip it back.

The other situation, where your or an enemy zerg opened a keep but did not manage to take it (like in the vid above), its even more simple, because you're not getting marked.

You can stack stealth with e. g. pistol 5 outside of the keep, jump back in, almost instantly place a new portal, and run out of the keep again. There is not a single tell.

Theef places his portal exit at a single tiny location, then jumps off from the walls, runs out of the keep, ports back. The chance to place a trap directly on this spot by chance is close to zero.

[DemonSeed.3528]

I just wanted to mention after looking at that clip above - this is SM. You are never marked in sm after a flip, this was changed a long time ago so people are free to move undetected using stealth/hiding but they can be pinged by sniff if not using stealth.That guy isn't really in any danger to be honest, no one even came to bother chasing him or the Mesmer down, just one guy. Chances are someone from the Zerg below should have clearly seen but probably just ignored, and they probably ignored the one guy who went to check and report in map. I see this happen all the time, even when it's not mes or thief, people just don't bother with top floor sm many times.You should find someone using the portal more effectively, the guy in the clip is doing a bad job at how much better it could be put to use.

[bq pd.2148]

@enkidu.5937 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@enkidu.5937 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@enkidu.5937 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:the differences between the portals has nothing to do with wether the thief can be caught or not

How do you catch a thief that is outside of the keep (but his portal exit inside the lordroom)?

Thief places the exit in the lordroom and jumps out of the keep: the cooldown of the skill is already ticking, though the portal is not being used yet-> waits 60 seconds-> ports back to the lord room, the portal CD is off, immediately places a new exit-> jumps out of the keep-> waits 60 seconds-> ports back etc.

if you have enough people that are good enough to hunt the thief inside the lordroom, they most certainly will also catch you doing that as your movement is even more predictable so you can be easier marked and put in combat. if they dont put a thought in how to get the thief, then even a huge zerg will fail anyway.i have been doing this far longer than we have portals, the portal just gets a zerg in incase the thief is inpatient, everything else the thief could already do.

Did you even read my post? Lets take the keeps on EBG, with a single wall separating the lord room from the outside of the keep. What exactly is predictable when a perma stealth thief jumps in and out at will through an invisible portal?

yes i did read your post, thank you for questioning my intelligence.ebg keep might be the only one were it does matter, but only after the portal is fixed. right now with that buggy thing you dont want to jump out too often.if just 1 or 2 clueless are searching for you, it doesnt matter wether you have a portal or not. thats why i started with:

if you have enough people that are good enough to hunt the thief inside the lordroom

that would mean that most of the keep is trapped, plenty of people around to pin you down once you show your tail and trying to track audio/visual tells.in such a case you will want to walk as little as possible. in most keeps were you would need to walk from inner to the outer quite a bit it will be difficult to prestack enough stealth that you can port back and run out again without any audio/visual tell and then you still need to hope they didnt trap the place while when you just stay inside and move little, then you atleast can keep track of your surroudings wich you wont do around the portal. IMO spamming portal on cd would not be the best way to utilize it. i would use it as a safety tool. meaning in case i get into a trap i will walk a bit or shadow step, place the portal and mount up, trigger as much as i can, might even jump out and go back again with now a much larger safezone.

I still don't know what you are talking aboutmy point is that you focus too much on the portal and forget what the thief can already do without the portal, such behaviour is pretty common with new things in this game and leads to nerfs that dont really 'fix' the issue the people complaining had to begin with and then after some more weird nerfs anet might get the right thing after like 20 tries and wont do anything about all the other things they had nerfed. such has happened in one way or another to almost every profession so far.

but anyway again the portals ..usually the mesmers portal would be alot better on the thieves bar than his own portal, because:

• when you use a portal you wont make a suicide portal for your zerg anyway, you will use it when noone or not enough defenders are around. => wether the portal has tells or not doesnt matter in such a case.
• you can get 20 people through the portal instead of 5
• it is reliable (thief portal right now is buggy and has a chance of what feels like 1/10 to go on cooldown without creating a portal)
• you dont ever need more than 30s to cover the portal distance anyway

the method you described would be rather stupid considering that the thief portal is still buggy, so you wont find actual good video where the thief is really under pressure inside and can overcome it by spamming a portal, firstly it is super rare that the thief is under serious pressure when he is not marked, if he is marked then it just takes 1-2 half decent players to hunt him down durin the portal runs. only because it does work out for the thief as noone is hunting, doesnt mean it is a good or even op tactic.

in a more realitic scernario as i literally do that for hours per week, sometimes for hours each day... is that they either dont even notice and ignore you. or you have like 2-3 people who just want to find you, they place a trap every know and then, sniff a bit and spamm some skills, usually without even having a thought on what to do if a hit connects. now with the portal i can just get a group in and flip it with them inside, but by no means i do need the portal to stay inside. before the portal i could either kill them and then the lord, depending on how how good/many they are and how well the communicate with their server that is not always an option or bore them out/distract with my allies and take the keep solo then. it basically just saves both groups some boredom, unless the scouts are able to regularly beat my allies zerg, then it can take a while.

so overall my point is you focus too much on the portal. even without portal it wont be easier for you to catch the thief and even without portal nothing is safe with a thief inside. so if you have an issue with the thieves ability to play hide and seek and flip the keep, then the portal is just a tool to speed it up, it alone does not enable it and it is not required.

[enkidu.5937]

@MUDse.7623 said:my point is that you focus too much on the portal and forget what the thief can already do without the portalThe huge advantages of having such a portal are totally obvious imo.

the method you described would be rather stupid considering that the thief portal is still buggyThe only bugs I am aware atm are not relevant for hide-and-seek in keeps (jumping into water, mounting, not using a formerly placed portal exit).

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Enemy's cant see thief portal