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Why DuoQ Should be Removed for Season 18 and Never Come Back


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@GoldenPants.1870 said:I disagree, I am a silver 3 player and I often duo queue with my gold 1 and 2 friends, duo queue is the only thing that makes rankes pvp fun, that you are able to play with your friends in a competetive enviroment.

I feel you. This is an MMO, and you should be able to play competitively with friends. The problem is, that DuoQing in low ranks right now only makes you a prime target for the Legendary DuoQs, whether you're being placed with or against them to try and compensate for the large skill disparity. They make way less than a whole number% of the population. When they stack together there is next to no chance of that DuoQ ever being mirrored properly, and they know it. They thrive off of it.

DuoQ doesn't exist to let you play competitively with friends. It's there to trick lower ranks into losing with their friends, and for the higher ranks to exploit. I for one think DuoQ was absolutely fine; rare as it was, when it was locked behind 1600 rating, but if a higher ranked player was to call that unfair, they wouldn't be wrong.

Generally I think the better way to play competitive with friends is along the lines of what @Deadly Moonshiner.1354 and @Twilight Tempest.7584 mentioned to answer your, @zealex.9410 , and @Snellibee.2761 's questions.

Split TeamQ or even a 2v2 Arena with its own separate leaderboard ensures you're only as weak as the people you decide to queue with, and it's fair by not sniping soloQ players who might be trying to learn the game, or just don't want to go through the hassle of finding someone else of similar ranking to play this game with. Split TeamQ especially is naturally very competitive, and being able to play with 4 other friends rather than just 1 other makes the game even more social. If people think the population is too low, and queue times would be too long drop the team size to 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4. We could be playing ranked with as many friends as we want essentially, but we're limited to just 1 other, to be thrown together into a group of 8 randoms of vastly different skill levels.

Whatever arena we get really doesn't matter, so long as the option to queue with friends is fair and competitive.

If anyone isn't on board with those options, I have to ask; why merged queue? I really can't see the sense in that level of self-limitation, unless you unabashedly want to stomp noobs instead of being matched with players of similar skill rating which; mind you, is the entire reason ranked or skill-based matchmaking exists in any competitive game really.

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@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:There is a large group of players in the pvp scene that duo q only and probably would stop playing if they couldn't duo Taking that away I know a lot of people who would no longer find enjoyment in ranked and will go back to either memeing on dumb kitten solo(causing more griefing/unnecessary throws because no one cares) if theyre bored and ultimately quit ranked. This isn't speculation, all of this HAS happened when anet tried solo

Then it could be restricted behind a rating threshold once again. Lower rated DuoQ's aren't the problem, and the higher rated DuoQs that Duo purely for the numbers advantage don't even cumulatively make up a whole number % of the population. If merged queues are replaced with split queues, everyone gets what they want anyway; because that wouldn't limit your ability to queue with friends, it'd only take away your power to stomp uncoordinated lower ranked players, and; if that's an issue for you, then miss me with that:

If you are upset duos are farming you try to learn and improve because those players get on comms coordinate opener strats, recovery strats, snowballs, and kills, and comp switches to accommodate the match

"get good" nonsense. Getting good is a gradual process based on match quality, and it's nearly impossible for the average or lower rated player to do when they're constantly matched against people of wildly different skill levels.

To which, SoloQ can do better than DuoQ matchmaking wise. Ben mentioned so back in this thread a few times: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/80419/what-is-up-with-the-matchmaker/p1

Ben already mentioned more afking/griefing/throwing happens when its solo.

Like I said in my original post, classic wintrading/match manipulation is near-extinct with the modern Legendary DuoQ. There's no reason for anyone to expend the effort when you can just DuoQ and get even better results. So yes, i'd say compared to today SoloQ had more, but the comparison isn't the most fair; seeing how the game has changed.

When DuoQ first came back though, MM was still rampant. Remember in Season 13 when; for a while, a DuoQ partner could leave a game and their team would lose 0 rating? That worked SUPER well with the fact that there's no cap on how far apart two ratings can queue together. I remember people being like "Oh my gosh, DuoQ is really working! Ratings have increased across the board!" When in reality, that was little more than inflation.

And then in those opening seasons, if someone was going to throw a game on purpose; like I mentioned in my OP, was leagues easier when you had more control over who was getting into a match and on what team.

misinformed paragraphs and riling up the people who aren't fully aware by trying to seem sympathetic to golds who run into legend duos but what you leave out is the fact that those matches are outliers and only a few happen out of the 100s of games legend players play.

It all comes from personal experience, and sources here on the forums. I could link you to some interesting reads if you like. That being said, with the scope of the threads complaining about it, I definitely wouldn't call it the result of a few outliers. I mean, 2 alone(that I know of) trace back to you specifically, and that's people who actually took the time to take evidence from the match and bring it back here to the forums to complain. The law of averages is a bit fallacious, so take this with yet another grain of salt; but, i'm sure there's been way more instances than only what's been documented.

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If duo que is restricted above 1600 again, I'm quitting the game on the spot. I know at least a dozen of other good players that will as well.

I refuse to play this game if it punishes me for being a good player and prevents me from playing with friends in my preferred gamemode. Solo que was a shit show. There was more wintrading, more afking, more griefing, more trolling, more of everything you wouldn't want in a competitive environment.

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:
There is a large group of players in the pvp scene that duo q only and probably would stop playing if they couldn't duo
Taking that away I know a lot of people who would no longer find enjoyment in ranked and will go back to either memeing on dumb kitten solo(causing more griefing/unnecessary throws because no one cares) if theyre bored and ultimately quit ranked. This isn't speculation, all of this HAS happened when anet tried solo

Then it could be restricted behind a rating threshold once again. Lower rated DuoQ's aren't the problem, and the higher rated DuoQs that Duo purely for the numbers advantage don't even cumulatively make up a whole number % of the population. If merged queues are replaced with split queues, everyone gets what they want anyway; because that wouldn't limit your ability to queue with friends, it'd only take away your power to stomp uncoordinated lower ranked players, and; if that's an issue for you, then miss me with that:

If you are upset duos are farming you try to learn and improve because those players get on comms coordinate opener strats, recovery strats, snowballs, and kills, and comp switches to accommodate the match

"get good" nonsense. Getting good is a gradual process based on match quality, and it's nearly impossible for the average or lower rated player to do when they're constantly matched against people of wildly different skill levels.

To which, SoloQ can do better than DuoQ matchmaking wise. Ben mentioned so back in this thread a few times:

Ben already mentioned more afking/griefing/throwing happens when its solo.

Like I said in my original post, classic wintrading/match manipulation is near-extinct with the modern Legendary DuoQ. There's no reason for anyone to expend the effort when you can just DuoQ and get even better results. So yes, i'd say compared to today SoloQ had more, but the comparison isn't the most fair; seeing how the game has changed.

When DuoQ first came back though, MM was still rampant. Remember in Season 13 when; for a while, a DuoQ partner could leave a game and their team would lose 0 rating? That worked SUPER well with the fact that there's no cap on how far apart two ratings can queue together. I remember people being like "Oh my gosh, DuoQ is really working! Ratings have increased across the board!" When in reality, that was little more than inflation.

And then in those opening seasons, if someone was going to throw a game on purpose; like I mentioned in my OP, was leagues easier when you had more control over who was getting into a match and on what team.

misinformed paragraphs and riling up the people who aren't fully aware by trying to seem sympathetic to golds who run into legend duos but what you leave out is the fact that those matches are outliers and only a few happen out of the 100s of games legend players play.

It all comes from personal experience, and sources here on the forums. I could link you to some interesting reads if you like. That being said, with the scope of the threads complaining about it, I definitely wouldn't call it the result of a few outliers. I mean, 2 alone(that I know of) trace back to you specifically, and that's people who actually took the time to take evidence from the match and bring it back here to the forums to complain. The law of averages is a bit fallacious, so take this with yet another grain of salt; but, i'm sure there's been way more instances than only what's been documented.

You just don't get it, and I don't think you will. Match quality dropping hard is always bad for any competitive environment where winning matters.This game is meant to be played in a coordinated fashion.I am going to say this again one last time: If every match is 5 pugs running straight in to die or somehow stumble on a win, then respawn and just run wherever until the game ends people who are gold 2+ will quit. If there is nothing to strive for and everyone is qing ranked to meme(exactly what happened last solo season) then winning no longer matters and competition will die. You don't even realize how ridiculous your argument is. You want to change the entire structure of a competitive mode that is proven to work BETTER than what you're suggesting because 3 people made a post crying about being mismatched? Grow up dude thousands of matches happen daily and you are using fallacies to get an emotional reaction out of people in the forums to go back to a system that killed ranked when it was in place. We all know how hard it is for anet to revert back on changes they make, and they did with their solo q decision, ask yourself why.

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@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:You just don't get it, and I don't think you will. Match quality dropping hard is always bad for any competitive environment where winning matters.This game is meant to be played in a coordinated fashion.I am going to say this again one last time: If every match is 5 pugs running straight in to die or somehow stumble on a win, then respawn and just run wherever until the game ends people who are gold 2+ will quit. If there is nothing to strive for and everyone is qing ranked to meme(exactly what happened last solo season) then winning no longer matters and competition will die. You don't even realize how ridiculous your argument is. You want to change the entire structure of a competitive mode that is proven to work BETTER than what you're suggesting because 3 people made a post crying about being mismatched? Grow up dude thousands of matches happen daily and you are using fallacies to get an emotional reaction out of people in the forums to go back to a system that killed ranked when it was in place. We all know how hard it is for anet to revert back on changes they make, and they did with their solo q decision, ask yourself why.

Personally I don't think the game is about only winning. Winning means nothing if there's no competition, and it only feels good if it comes with a challenge. Surely there's at least one player other than myself above gold2 who can appreciate playing competitive competitively rather than the easiest way possible.

Saying DuoQ is proven to work better is a bit dishonest, because it's already been restricted once before, and people continue to complain about it now that it's still here.

I'm not saying that ranked should be SoloQ only either, as i've said before 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, TeamQ are all ways to play competitively with friends that guarantee similar coordination that can't exist in merged queues. There is no feasible excuse as to why uncapped merged queues should exist in this game unless you want to farm uncoordinated, low-rated players. In the low population, with the 5v5 gamemode limited by a 2-person queue we have now, there will always be at least 2 players in every match that will be at an inherent disadvantage; though, that's a perfect world scenario, and there's usually more than that every match. Do you think getting rolled or carried by two people like you, hundreds of rating above their own satisfies their want for competition? Do you think that's healthy, keeping the population growing rather than draining? Do YOU consider that competition?

That being said, would split 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, or TeamQ becoming a permanent or rotating split ranked arena with their own separate leaderboards appeal to you, @shadowpass.4236 ? Or does it absolutely have to be as it is now, no exceptions?

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@Multicolorhipster.9751

Don't get me wrong, I would love 1v1s and 4v4s and everything in between. However, I believe that new gamemodes require the population to be higher otherwise que times would be abysmal.

Currently, duo que is better than solo que for ranked. Solo que is not only boring, but it's also extraordinarily frustrating. I play games to compete and have fun. If I wanted to play alone, I wouldn't be playing an MMO.

Naru is correct. PvP in GW2 was meant to be played coordinated. It all started going downhill after Anet removed team que. This decision started a downwards spiral as nearly every single PvP guild in the game (ya know, those communities that help bring in and retain players) died on the spot. In fact, whatever handful of guilds that were left suffered heavily when it became solo que only above 1600.

For example, my all ranger guild of 250+ (mostly PvPers) lost nearly 150 people the week following the patch because we could no longer play ranked together.

If you want the gamemode to stay alive, alienating the good players is not the way to do it. Neither is forcing people to play solo in an online, team-based gamemode. Do you think those loners are going to bring their friends into the game? What would be the point? They wouldn't even be able to play together.

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@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

There is a large group of players in the pvp scene that duo q only and probably would stop playing if they couldn't duo
Taking that away I know a lot of people who would no longer find enjoyment in ranked and will go back to either memeing on dumb kitten solo(causing more griefing/unnecessary throws because no one cares) if theyre bored and ultimately quit ranked. This isn't speculation, all of this HAS happened when anet tried solo

Then it could be restricted behind a rating threshold once again. Lower rated DuoQ's aren't the problem, and the higher rated DuoQs that Duo purely for the numbers advantage don't even cumulatively make up a whole number % of the population. If merged queues are replaced with split queues, everyone gets what they want anyway; because that wouldn't limit your ability to queue with friends, it'd only take away your power to stomp uncoordinated lower ranked players, and; if that's an issue for you, then miss me with that:

If you are upset duos are farming you try to learn and improve because those players get on comms coordinate opener strats, recovery strats, snowballs, and kills, and comp switches to accommodate the match

"get good" nonsense. Getting good is a gradual process based on match quality, and it's nearly impossible for the average or lower rated player to do when they're constantly matched against people of wildly different skill levels.

To which, SoloQ can do better than DuoQ matchmaking wise. Ben mentioned so back in this thread a few times:

Ben already mentioned more afking/griefing/throwing happens when its solo.

Like I said in my original post, classic wintrading/match manipulation is near-extinct with the modern Legendary DuoQ. There's no reason for anyone to expend the effort when you can just DuoQ and get even better results. So yes, i'd say compared to today SoloQ had more, but the comparison isn't the most fair; seeing how the game has changed.

When DuoQ first came back though, MM was still rampant. Remember in Season 13 when; for a while, a DuoQ partner could leave a game and their team would lose 0 rating? That worked SUPER well with the fact that there's no cap on how far apart two ratings can queue together. I remember people being like "Oh my gosh, DuoQ is really working! Ratings have increased across the board!" When in reality, that was little more than inflation.

And then in those opening seasons, if someone was going to throw a game on purpose; like I mentioned in my OP, was leagues easier when you had more control over who was getting into a match and on what team.

misinformed paragraphs and riling up the people who aren't fully aware by trying to seem sympathetic to golds who run into legend duos but what you leave out is the fact that those matches are outliers and only a few happen out of the 100s of games legend players play.

It all comes from personal experience, and sources here on the forums. I could link you to some interesting reads if you like. That being said, with the scope of the threads complaining about it, I definitely wouldn't call it the result of a few outliers. I mean, 2 alone(that I know of) trace back to you specifically, and that's people who actually took the time to take evidence from the match and bring it back here to the forums to complain. The law of averages is a bit fallacious, so take this with yet another grain of salt; but, i'm sure there's been way more instances than only what's been documented.

You just don't get it, and I don't think you will. Match quality dropping hard is always bad for any competitive environment where winning matters.This game is meant to be played in a coordinated fashion.I am going to say this again one last time: If every match is 5 pugs running straight in to die or somehow stumble on a win, then respawn and just run wherever until the game ends people who are gold 2+ will quit. If there is nothing to strive for and everyone is qing ranked to meme(exactly what happened last solo season) then winning no longer matters and competition will die. You don't even realize how ridiculous your argument is. You want to change the entire structure of a competitive mode that is proven to work BETTER than what you're suggesting because 3 people made a post crying about being mismatched? Grow up dude thousands of matches happen daily and you are using fallacies to get an emotional reaction out of people in the forums to go back to a system that killed ranked when it was in place. We all know how hard it is for anet to revert back on changes they make, and they did with their solo q decision, ask yourself why.

What match quality are you even rumbling about? If people did not know any better, they would read your comment and think that ranked queue is thriving with duo queuers everywhere, when the reality is that a really low percentage of the PvP playerbase duo queue. And when you say "the matches are better" it translates to "I'm stomping 5 solo players mostly of the time and rarely facing another duo queue, even rarer another duo queue of similar level".

Seriously. I laughed my ass out! "Matches are better!" when 95% of the time you are facing 5 solo players on the other team. This is just LOL.

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@"bluri.2653" said:If anything its a myth soloq increases the match quality LOL

It's truth, not myth.

To be a myth would require some degree of mystery, or lack of closure. That's why the whole "the matchmaker only uses the rating of the highest rated player in a duo" myth, is a myth. There's been no comment by Arenanet(As far as I know, hmu if you find something that suggests otherwise) and there exists nothing in the matchmaking algorithm that would suggest this is true. Therefore it's all conjecture and myth.

SoloQ increasing match quality is truth, because that's something Arenanet actually confirmed multiple times, one example being
when they removed DuoQ the first time.

Still, it feels kind of dirty to put SoloQ up on a pedestal. I don't want to give off the impression that SoloQ is perfect, because it's not. It's just the infinitely better option to DuoQ.

The only reason I wanted duo queue back in the game was because the top players kept telling me that win trading didn't exist below plat (even though it did).So I didn't mind advocating to open the flood doors on them too (and now look at all the complaining about it).So now we have reached the extreme levels that effects everyone and not just mid ranks, maybe Anet will have to chose between solo only for all ranks (which goes against thier vision of playing with friends) or to simply just allow team queue again.

Personally I'd prefer it if they just allowed team queue till plat 1 then after that it can be solo queue.

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The entire OP is based on nonsense. But people believe it because they refuse to admit they lose because they're bad.

Face the facts:

  • People will match manipulate no matter what the system is; they did it when it was solo queue above 1600. Why pretend like it won't happen again.
  • The game was far more fun when there was actual teamwork happening because of team queue. Back in core, we had a solo and team (1-5player) queue. The solo queue died out because it a was crap-shoot who would win with piles of toxic players and almost no teamwork. It's mind-boggling why we're trying to do that again.
  • If you allowed full team queue, maybe people could actually stand up against the legendary duo queues late at night making it harder to match manipulate! And if you have a full team of 5, there's no one to sabotage you!

Restricting competitive PvP in a team-based game has already done enough damage. Restricting it even more will completely kill it (though unabated power creep has accomplished most of that already).

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@Exedore.6320 said:The entire OP is based on nonsense. But people believe it because they refuse to admit they lose because they're bad.

Face the facts:

  • People will match manipulate no matter what the system is; they did it when it was solo queue above 1600. Why pretend like it won't happen again.
  • The game was far more fun when there was actual teamwork happening because of team queue. Back in core, we had a solo and team (1-5player) queue. The solo queue died out because it a was kitten-shoot who would win with piles of toxic players and almost no teamwork. It's mind-boggling why we're trying to do that again.
  • If you allowed full team queue, maybe people could actually stand up against the legendary duo queues late at night making it harder to match manipulate! And if you have a full team of 5, there's no one to sabotage you!

Restricting competitive PvP in a team-based game has already done enough damage. Restricting it even more will completely kill it (though unabated power creep has accomplished most of that already).

You're one of the very few people here who remember it the way I did.Mixed queue was great. Solo queue was bad and it was always better to queue under team queue even if you're alone. (Because a 4 man premade would carry you LOL jokes I did it for extra tokens)

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@NotoriousNaru.1705 said:You just don't get it, and I don't think you will. Match quality dropping hard is always bad for any competitive environment where winning matters.This game is meant to be played in a coordinated fashion.I am going to say this again one last time: If every match is 5 pugs running straight in to die or somehow stumble on a win, then respawn and just run wherever until the game ends people who are gold 2+ will quit. If there is nothing to strive for and everyone is qing ranked to meme(exactly what happened last solo season) then winning no longer matters and competition will die. You don't even realize how ridiculous your argument is. You want to change the entire structure of a competitive mode that is proven to work BETTER than what you're suggesting because 3 people made a post crying about being mismatched? Grow up dude thousands of matches happen daily and you are using fallacies to get an emotional reaction out of people in the forums to go back to a system that killed ranked when it was in place. We all know how hard it is for anet to revert back on changes they make, and they did with their solo q decision, ask yourself why.

Personally I don't think the game is about only winning. Winning means nothing if there's no competition, and it only feels good if it comes with a challenge. Surely there's at least one player other than myself above gold2 who can appreciate playing competitive competitively rather than the easiest way possible.

Saying DuoQ is proven to work better is a bit dishonest, because it's already been restricted once before, and people continue to complain about it now that it's still here.

I'm not saying that ranked should be SoloQ only either, as i've said before 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, TeamQ are all ways to play competitively with friends that guarantee similar coordination that can't exist in merged queues. There is no feasible excuse as to why uncapped merged queues should exist in this game unless you want to farm uncoordinated, low-rated players. In the low population, with the 5v5 gamemode limited by a 2-person queue we have now, there will always be at least 2 players in every match that will be at an inherent disadvantage; though, that's a perfect world scenario, and there's usually more than that every match. Do you think getting rolled or carried by two people like you, hundreds of rating above their own satisfies their want for competition? Do you think that's healthy, keeping the population growing rather than draining? Do YOU consider that competition?

That being said, would split 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, or TeamQ becoming a permanent or rotating split ranked arena with their own separate leaderboards appeal to you, @shadowpass.4236 ? Or does it absolutely have to be as it is now, no exceptions?

Sure I don't mind team queue but look at all the other comments of vet players talking about how it was back when team q/solo q were a thing. Team q was great and solo qs sucked. Even those playing solo ended up going to the team q. Know why? Because of exactly what I tried to tell you and you failed to understand: match quality. The way I see it is if they can create that system again go for it BUT if they can't the ONLY option absolutely CANNOT be solo only because those who do care about winning and competing will leave and that is bad for everyone and I dont mean just legend players i mean majority of plat players and some of gold too.

I'm giving you valid reasons as to why solo is objectively worse. All you're giving me is how the plat 2-3+ players are bad and cheat but what you fail to realize is thats going to happen no matter what, infact more griefing will happen in solo. You mentioned legend duos dodging each other for easier games but based on your logic wouldn't that be worse when legend/plat mix teams dodge each other and now they are farming those same low rated players but now its 100% of the time rather than carrying some of them occasionally? I just don't see your point. You want both qs back but if you do some research you will come to realize everyone will flock to team q, even solo players.

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You know most you guys could actually just do this weird thing and learn how the game actually works instead of constantly complaining on here. Pinning your own misplay and misrotations on matchmaking and every other factor other than yourself is exactly how you stagnate as a player and never ever improve.

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@"shadowpass.4236" said:Don't get me wrong, I would love 1v1s and 4v4s and everything in between. However, I believe that new gamemodes require the population to be higher otherwise que times would be abysmal.

Currently, duo que is better than solo que for ranked. Solo que is not only boring, but it's also extraordinarily frustrating. I play games to compete and have fun. If I wanted to play alone, I wouldn't be playing an MMO.

Naru is correct. PvP in GW2 was meant to be played coordinated. It all started going downhill after Anet removed team que. This decision started a downwards spiral as nearly every single PvP guild in the game (ya know, those communities that help bring in and retain players) died on the spot. In fact, whatever handful of guilds that were left suffered heavily when it became solo que only above 1600.

If you want the gamemode to stay alive, alienating the good players is not the way to do it. Neither is forcing people to play solo in an online, team-based gamemode. Do you think those loners are going to bring their friends into the game? What would be the point? They wouldn't even be able to play together.

I totally agree there tbh, and i'm not asking and I never for ranked to be restricted to SoloQ only. Coordination encourages competition, merged queues don't encourage coordination; because coordination is hardly necessary when you're matched with people several divisions below you.

Really, the argument is solely against merged queues. Coordination is more encouraged when everyone is given the chance to play at that same level of coordination, and to pick who they queue with. In a 5v5 gamemode, DuoQ doesn't present that chance.

Again, low population is an argument against merged queues, not for them. Waiting longer in queue should be expected when you queue at the very highest possible level, and it's worth it if the match is more fair, and you get to play with 4 more friends.

Plus, the actual effect split TeamQ would have on queue times is unknown; because it's been gone for a long while. To write it off as "the population is too low, so don't bother" is rather close-minded and self-limiting. How do you go about valuing quantity over quality and not get called out for farming?

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@Exedore.6320 said:The entire OP is based on nonsense. But people believe it because they refuse to admit they lose because they're bad.

Face the facts:

  • People will match manipulate no matter what the system is; they did it when it was solo queue above 1600. Why pretend like it won't happen again.
  • The game was far more fun when there was actual teamwork happening because of team queue. Back in core, we had a solo and team (1-5player) queue. The solo queue died out because it a was kitten-shoot who would win with piles of toxic players and almost no teamwork. It's mind-boggling why we're trying to do that again.
  • If you allowed full team queue, maybe people could actually stand up against the legendary duo queues late at night making it harder to match manipulate! And if you have a full team of 5, there's no one to sabotage you!

Restricting competitive PvP in a team-based game has already done enough damage. Restricting it even more will completely kill it (though unabated power creep has accomplished most of that already).

My OP pretty much covers everything you've said here.

SoloQ has its fair share of wintrading, but the leaderboards never looked as disgusting as they do right now.

TeamQ, and team-based gameplay in general is something i'm all for. My argument only refers to merged queues because of the arbitrary restrictions they impose on how many friends you can queue with, and the fact that everyone isn't allowed to experience and learn the game that way despite being thrown into matches with people that can.

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Don't get me wrong, I would love 1v1s and 4v4s and everything in between. However, I believe that new gamemodes require the population to be higher otherwise que times would be abysmal.

Currently, duo que is better than solo que for ranked. Solo que is not only boring, but it's also extraordinarily frustrating. I play games to compete and have fun. If I wanted to play alone, I wouldn't be playing an MMO.

Naru is correct. PvP in GW2 was meant to be played coordinated. It all started going downhill after Anet removed team que. This decision started a downwards spiral as nearly every single PvP guild in the game (ya know, those communities that help bring in and retain players) died on the spot. In fact, whatever handful of guilds that were left suffered heavily when it became solo que only above 1600.

If you want the gamemode to stay alive, alienating the good players is not the way to do it. Neither is forcing people to play solo in an online, team-based gamemode. Do you think those loners are going to bring their friends into the game? What would be the point? They wouldn't even be able to play together.

I totally agree there tbh, and i'm not asking and I never for ranked to be restricted to SoloQ only. Coordination encourages competition, merged queues don't encourage coordination; because coordination is hardly necessary when you're matched with people several divisions below you.

Really, the argument is solely against merged queues. Coordination is more encouraged when everyone is given the chance to play at that same level of coordination, and to pick who they queue with. In a 5v5 gamemode, DuoQ doesn't present that chance.

Again, low population is an argument against merged queues, not for them. Waiting longer in queue should be expected when you queue at the very highest possible level, and it's worth it if the match is more fair, and you get to play with 4 more friends.

Plus, the actual effect split TeamQ would have on queue times is unknown; because it's been gone for a long while. To write it off as "the population is too low, so don't bother" is rather close-minded and self-limiting. How do you go about valuing quantity over quality and not get called out for farming?

I'm not one to write off new gamemodes. I'd love to see BR in GW2. However, the population needs to be higher or splitting the population between modes is just going to make longer que times for everyone + an even higher rating difference between players.

However, if Anet finds that adding these new gamemodes will breathe new life into the game, then I'm all for it.

Variety is good.

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:In a duo queue, the Matchmaker the mmr the highest rated player. It has been like this since season 5. I know many top players, myself included that would just stop if they removed duo, due to how unbearably low the skill in most games are.

Actually this is just a common myth. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that it only uses the rating of the higher rated player, but there is evidence to suggest an average of the two ratings is used.

Like, at Plat2 if I DuoQ with a gold 1, I get very little rating from wins with that gold and get smashed with huge rating deductions for losses. Since rating is tied to the other players in your match, it shouldn't be unreasonable to assume they're all a lower average rating. Unless you mean to suggest that single gold 1 player is the cause, but if that's the case; that means they're just being dragged along to essentially punish my team.

That also begs the question: If there's the potential to gain less/lose more, and the higher rated player's ranking is always used, why would the top player for this season be handicapping themself?

Most games already look like +5-10 -15-20. Making it even harder to climb is just ridiculous.

If we're going by rating gain/loss alone, SoloQ actually allows for more because the rating of the other players determines that, and there's objectively more rating disparity with DuoQ than without it.

Queued on alt yesterday, 1670 something in eu. I had a mirage camping every beast in Forest, even dying to it once. Me winning 1v2 against Firebrand scourge. Blowing up midfights in 2-5 seconds.

Duo makes the game bearable for me.

Oh yeah, winning 1v2s, blowing up midfights. That sounds tragic. On further consideration, I think I see your point. It's a hard-knock SoloQ life.

A couple months ago, I had dug through this entire subforum, quoting conversations between Ben & Cal, in response to the question of: "Does duo que use higher rated player's rating? or does it use the average rating of both players?"

Long story short, I'm not going to dig up those quotes again, but I can say that the duo que system does use the average rating between the two players qued. So if you have a 1600 with a 1400, it ques that duo has a 1500 duo.

People who believe it uses the higher player's rating as the duo rating, are remembering a patch from a very very very long time ago.

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@"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:Sure I don't mind team queue but look at all the other comments of vet players talking about how it was back when team q/solo q were a thing. Team q was great and solo qs sucked. Even those playing solo ended up going to the team q. Know why? Because of exactly what I tried to tell you and you failed to understand: match quality. The way I see it is if they can create that system again go for it BUT if they can't the ONLY option absolutely CANNOT be solo only because those who do care about winning and competing will leave and that is bad for everyone and I dont mean just legend players i mean majority of plat players and some of gold too.

I'm giving you valid reasons as to why solo is objectively worse. All you're giving me is how the plat 2-3+ players are bad and cheat but what you fail to realize is thats going to happen no matter what, infact more griefing will happen in solo. You mentioned legend duos dodging each other for easier games but based on your logic wouldn't that be worse when legend/plat mix teams dodge each other and now they are farming those same low rated players but now its 100% of the time rather than carrying some of them occasionally? I just don't see your point. You want both qs back but if you do some research you will come to realize everyone will flock to team q, even solo players.

Then SoloQ dies, I guess? If TeamQ is in your opinion, the better way to queue; people migrating over from Solos would be nothing but a good thing. Just having the option to go back and forth is important, because sometimes people don't want to LFG, or they don't have the team they normally play with available, so they SoloQ. Really, there's reason to play both gamemodes, and even if all this speculation proves to be right, SoloQ falling out of favor in place of TeamQ in a team-based game isn't exactly a bad thing. No matter which option people choose to favor, they at least have the option to be matched with similarly coordinated players. Merged queues take away that choice.

Anyway, I played between Season 9 and now, and like I said in the OP the means for wintrading have changed. In my opinion, it's much worse now than it was with SoloQ. With SoloQ the matchmaking is less tractable. It's harder to get two people on the same team, who don't want to be on the same team, and that's just a fact; basic math.

You look at the LBs now and you have multiple alts with upwards of 80% winrates. It wasn't like that in SoloQ, not even close. So you can tell me all you want really, that SoloQ will be worse. I'm more inclined to go by the results I physically witness, than than the word of the "scissors to the paper" as someone put it earlier.

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