Purging Flame could really use some update.

[Virtuality.8351]

[This post is mostly in regard to WvW]

First of all, let's take a brief look back at the history.

Before Heart of Thorn, the most popular way to deal with incoming conditions in a organized group fight was at the beginning cleansing. Practically every single Guardian and Warrior player I knew was equipped with Runes of the Soldier (nowadays, Trooper) and slotted with at least two or three Shout skills. Then, people realized that if one could reach a certain percentage of condition duration reduction, incoming conditions just could not get applied at all. With proper equipment and Purging Flame, it was possible to reach 90% or even higher peak duration reduction, resulting in practice immunity to any incoming condition pressure.

With the release of Heart of Thorn though, Resistance was introduced and Revenant with Legendary Demon Stance soon became the go-to anti-condition setup. Purging Flame quickly lost favor, with the majority of the Guardian players back then I knew would instead slot two utility slots for group Stability ('Stand Your Ground!' & Hallowed Ground; or heck even sometimes three with Fragments of Faith) and one for personal mobility (Meditation) or group Protection ('Hold the Line!').

However, with Path of Fire, the sheer scale of boon corruption brought up by Scourge demands more active condition management, that is, constant cleansing. Firebrand with its Tome of Resolve and Mantra of Lore, and then after several reworks, Scrapper, became the dominant force against conditions. Purging Flame is still picked against serious condition pressure, but more often then not, some other utility skill would be more preferred, than 3 conditions cleansed on a 35 cooldown plus little to no help from the duration reduction against consistently applied incoming and stacking conditions.

To make Purging Flame back on par with other condition management skills, certain changes must be done. One I can immediately come up with, is to replace the group reduction effect with group Resistance, one of the least accessed boon across all professions. The cooldown could also be adjusted in accordance with the duration of the boon.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Makes sense, as it seems this utility is using outdated mechanics. Is Resistance really worth it though? I think if we got to pick, converting conditions to boons would be preferred, but Pure of Voice already gives that ability to Guards. Maybe transfer conditions to enemy targets? Beef up the damage potential of this utility?

[otto.5684]

Talking from sPvP, even if it provides resistance, I will still not use it. Condi cleanse is far more reliable than resistance. And considering the skill's CD and cast time it is not worth using. I think this is even a more presistant problem in WvW zerg fights.

Also, this skill as well as out of PvE meta, now that condi FB runs zeal instead of virtues.

I think the best option is to reduce cast time to 0.5 sec and condis removed to 5 and remove the duration decrease entirely. This way it could be at least used as an AOE big cleanse. On the damage side, I think it should deal damage in pulses, so not one enemy cleanse makes the damage disappear.

[Virtuality.8351]

@otto.5684 said:Talking from sPvP, even if it provides resistance, I will still not use it. Condi cleanse is far more reliable than resistance.

I agree. Back in the old days in WvW, I considered resistance a temporal counter measure when committing into hot zones and choke points, similar to pre-cast stability. Combined with the old, pre-nerfed boonshare meta, it guaranteed safe passage through the most AoE covered areas, but after that, cleansing remained much mandatory. Or maybe Resistance and cleansing are just reliable under different scenarios or for different purposes/situation.

@otto.5684 said:I think the best option is to reduce cast time to 0.5 sec and condis removed to 5 and remove the duration decrease entirely. This way it could be at least used as an AOE big cleanse. On the damage side, I think it should deal damage in pulses, so not one enemy cleanse makes the damage disappear.@Turkeyspit.3965 said:Is Resistance really worth it though? I think if we got to pick, converting conditions to boons would be preferred, but Pure of Voice already gives that ability to Guards. Maybe transfer conditions to enemy targets? Beef up the damage potential of this utility?

Personally, I do not think it would match the theme of Consecration and other skills within this category, to buff the damage potential of this skill. The lineup, obsolete or not, has been pretty focused on providing utility (projectile reflection, condition duration reduction, ensured area passage for ally via pulsing Stability, and area denial of enemy) instead of, say, providing additional source of damage.

In regard of how exactly the skill could help against condition pressure, both massive cleansing and conversion do seem good to me. Another interesting feature would probably be preventing boon corruption from happening for a short duration. I can't tell myself if it would be favored in other game modes though.

[Zephoid.4263]

Apply 1s of resist for 4 ticks, cleanse 1 condi per tick, apply 1 stack of burning per tick. 25s cd, .5s cast time. I'd take that in PVP if i saw a scourge on the opposing team. Yeah, resist is mediocre, but if you can get a 25s cd AoE condi cleanse with resist, i'd take that. Most guard skills have the dual problem of too high CD AND too little effect.

[Virtuality.8351]

@Zephoid.4263 said:Most guard skills have the dual problem of too high CD AND too little effect.

Besides the solid proposal, this is pretty spot on, even in PvE. I mean, just look at Sanctuary, core Virtue of Courage, Shield of Wrath on Focus, Interventions of Meditation, 'Save Yourselves', etc.

[Henrik.7560]

the correct answer is stop buffing things and tone down elite specs, passive traits, and skills which do several things at once and bring things in line with how the skills were originally designed however that won't happen sadly. Why cleanse 3 conditions on a 35 sec cooldown when i can press tome 2 number 2 and convert them into healing on a 3 second cooldown.

[Zephoid.4263]

I swear some people are ignorant of their own suggestions. Purging Flames was always bad, even before HoT. It was used grudgingly because there was nothing else. I still ran Save Yourself+ Contemplation of Purity in wvw over trying to rely on a 3 condi cleanse ability with a 3/4 cast time and no stun break. 90% of guardian utilities have been bad since this game came out. It doesn't matter if you tone down elites, people still won't take purging flames.

[LetoII.3782]

It's not even the worst consecration xd

[Aeolus.3615]

@LetoII.3782 said:It's not even the worst consecration xd

So true....