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Soo, can we stop scaring kids with T1 Siren's Reef?


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I am a big fan of the game. I play it every day and I plan on not quitting till I reach Fractal God status in the next few years.NOW! I am starting to see less and less ppl doing fractals. I assume new players are quitting game for good after tasting T1 Reef. Can we tone it down or remove it from T1? Why is it still more difficult than Observatory. I found T1 Reef really annoying with my 250ess CMs team today.

Thanks for listening to my rant!Cred X

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What makes Reef hard are the instabilities. T1/T2 Reef isn't any more of a challenge than any other fractal to a T4 capable group.

In the recent past if I saw T4 Sirens I would just skip that night, but have never walked away when it was a recommended. Nowadays when I see Reef as a T4, I zone in on my Heal Scourge :)

This is for LFG mind you. Static groups likely have no problems with Reef, at least I would imagine.

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I think Siren's Reef is more annoying than anything else, thanks to the mobs not clearing per boss and the enemies having 10000 aggro range or something. It's also kinda long. The circle mechanic can also trouble many people. Overall, it's not very fun.

T4 sirens isn't that hard unless it comes with bad instabilities. Now, granted I usually play with some friends and 1-2 random people, but we're used to pretending they're not there anyways. The only one I refuse to deal with is Social Awkwardness, but that's terrible on any fractal.

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@maniksdi.1765 said:I found T1 Reef really annoying with my 250ess CMs team today.

Wait what? That's definitely a bunch of people pinging copied chat codes then. T1 should be a breeze for anyone with the slightest bit of T4 experience. Your argument for it driving away new players seemed valid until you brought up something as ridiculous as regular CM runners having any sort of difficulty with anything in T1.

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IMO sirens reef gets easier the higher the teir; instabilities can be annoying sure, but the main thing is no matter the teir you want a healer (especially one with condi cleanse) + want people to actually stick together (for shark). the latter is a given in any group with even a little competence, t1 is super lax for every other fractal near enough + teir for newbs not used to stacking for boons, so you see that less. t1 also basically requires no specific build for any fractal....EXCEPT sirens reef, while this is technically true for t4s too lots of groups like bringing a healer just because the dps output of enemies is pretty high, so you're more likely to see that also. And i will say, i imagine pro statics prolly can do without a healer, but in my experience it's much easier and more reliably done with randoms if you have a healer.

Removing it from t1 causes a whole bunch of problems, like when they get dropped into a new fractal at t2 they never learned to deal with without the extra scaling + instability. If -anything- should be toned down, IMO in teir 1 only the conditions when falling into water should apply at a slower rate and shorter duration. That said, i don't really believe it's needed.

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@"VanWilder.6923" said:I DISLIKE this "Siren Reef" SO MUCH and I choose not to play it. PeriodDid you want to explain why you dislike it?The OP's claim is that T1 is too difficult, even for CM fractalers (although there seems little support for that theory). Other people have expressed distaste for how long it takes, even if you're group is good at the mechanics. What's your reason?

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The difficulty of Siren's Reef decreases proportionally based on the amount of Scourges you have in your party.

I'm serious. Everything that makes Reef's final boss fight a challenge is trivialized by Scourge, and the more Scourges, the more trivial it becomes.

No Pain no Gain? ScourgeWe Bleed Fire? ScourgeFrailty? Biggest health pool in the game ScourgeStick Together / Outflanked? Largest/Spammable AoE in the gameAfflicted? Condition cleanse built into Largest/Spammable AoE in the game.

Spammable barrier, fear, AoE's out the whazoo, a Scourge laughs at this fractal.

If I was a conspiracy nut, I'd say that whoever designed Reef wanted a fractal to showcase the power of Scourge.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"VanWilder.6923" said:I DISLIKE this "Siren Reef" SO MUCH and I choose not to play it. PeriodDid you want to explain why you dislike it?The OP's claim is that T1 is too difficult, even for CM fractalers (although there seems little support for that theory). Other people have expressed distaste for how long it takes, even if you're group is good at the mechanics. What's your reason?

You didn't ask me, but I also reallu dislike this fractal.I find it takes too long and I'm not good enough as a druid (my only class set up for T4) for it and people blame failure on the druid.

Saying that T1 and T2 Reef, is not a problem at all, altho, still too long. I prefer shorter fractals.

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Reflects make such a huge difference in this Fractal, give things like Wall of Reflection a try. All the adds are almost exclusively ranged and projectile based. If you keep up projectile defense, it's almost like they aren't even there and the rest is very easily outhealed, no matter if there's Bleed Fire or what have you.

Get in the habit of looking at fights or fractals you are struggling with and what parts of them are killing you or making you dislike them, then search for a solution to them in your kit and adapt it for the encounter.

Now, instead of this constant annoyance when playing this Fractal, you suddenly have a unique job to do that makes you an asset to have around because you and everybody else has a better time.That tends to work much better than complaining.

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@"Asum.4960" said:Reflects make such a huge difference in this Fractal, give things like Wall of Reflection a try. All the adds are almost exclusively ranged and projectile based. If you keep up projectile defense, it's almost like they aren't even there and the rest is very easily outhealed, no matter if there's Bleed Fire or what have you.

Get in the habit of looking at fights or fractals you are struggling with and what parts of them are killing you or making you dislike them, then search for a solution to them in your kit and adapt it for the encounter.

Except the adds should be focused and burned down, not ignored. The bosses spawn adds every 25% drop in health. The boss on their own isn't too hard to manage.

Drop boss 100% - 75% healthTarget switch - focus addsDrop Boss 75% - 50% healthTarget switch - focus adds...

Doesn't seem too complicated, but then neither is Subject 6 - it's only a problem when people are convinced the only way to succeed is to press 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 as fast as possible and burn the target down. If players would actually just observe and follow the fight mechanics for this boss, each kill would be flawless.

Who would think that the ability to watch the bosses' health bar and the skill to switch targets would be the key to success here?

EDIT: as I've said on other threads, this encounter reminds me so much of an old boss fight in WoW (https://www.wowhead.com/npc=24744/vexallus ). When I used to pug that 5-man, I would implore the other players to follow the strategy of throttling DPS. Most disagreed, but after the 2nd/3rd wipe, agreed to try, and many then said it was the first time they had defeated him.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Reflects make such a huge difference in this Fractal, give things like Wall of Reflection a try. All the adds are almost exclusively ranged and projectile based. If you keep up projectile defense, it's almost like they aren't even there and the rest is very easily outhealed, no matter if there's Bleed Fire or what have you.

Get in the habit of looking at fights or fractals you are struggling with and what parts of them are killing you or making you dislike them, then search for a solution to them in your kit and adapt it for the encounter.

Except the adds should be focused and burned down, not ignored. The bosses spawn adds every 25% drop in health. The boss on their own isn't too hard to manage.

That depends entirely on how good your group is. If you are struggling then making an active effort to clear the adds as well definitely can help.

If you have good DPS, you can just burst the bosses while a reflect is up, and then 2 people go fetch the treasure while 3 stay and clear the left over adds.For Crowe you obviously need decent DPS as well if you don't actively clear, but since a good sup FB for example can keep up permanent projectile mitigation, it's not really an issue unless people run around like headless chicken.

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I personally skip this fractal on T4's because it's simply annoying. The fractal isn't fun in any way, it just feels like Anet's trying to make it difficult by making it frustrating. The Maze is annoying when the eye AoE's turn to come after you and give you no room to avoid them, the enemies in general are obnoxious but not the worst, but the kicker is the final section. Crowe herself is just frustrating because no matter what, you're being hindered in some way. She dazes non stop, and her winds are just infuriating. Couple that with her AoE mechanics and it just becomes a slog to get through. I've done the fractal with no issues plenty of times, I often go healer if I have to pug, but it's just not a fun experience when Anet decides to take a note from UMvC3 and just fill the screen with stuff. I personally think this is the worst fractal they've ever made.

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@Asum.4960 said:That depends entirely on how good your group is. If you are struggling then making an active effort to clear the adds as well definitely can help.

I agree, but if your group isn't struggling, you're not likely going to be coming to this forum to complain about the fractal :wink:

So if someone is here complaining about it, either they or the players they run with / LFG with are having issue.

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@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Asum.4960 said:That depends entirely on how good your group is. If you are struggling then making an active effort to clear the adds as well definitely can help.

I agree, but if your group isn't struggling, you're not likely going to be coming to this forum to complain about the fractal :wink:

So if someone is here complaining about it, either they or the players they run with / LFG with are having issue.

That's absolutely fair and I'm not disagreeing with you.

Still Reflects are a valuable thing to bring, even if you plan to focus on clearing adds.

But if you notice your group having good DPS, one or two players clearing can be the thing that causes issues if otherwise you could have bursted the boss within the uptime of the reflects.Just depends on the group, and while I'm personally not a huge fan of the Fractal either, I can appreciate the challenges it provides at times, as well as the different approaches to dealing with them.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"VanWilder.6923" said:I DISLIKE this "Siren Reef" SO MUCH and I choose not to play it. PeriodDid you want to explain why you dislike it?The OP's claim is that T1 is too difficult, even for CM fractalers (although there seems little support for that theory). Other people have expressed distaste for how long it takes, even if you're group is good at the mechanics. What's your reason?

The Fractal is too long, endless annoying adds/mechanics, when someone dislikes something, they tend to dislike everything about it. And I cleared it all the time in T4 since its release.

For my own good, playing the game to have fun and relax but this kitten Reef does not give me either, so I choose not to play "Siren Reef" forever (even in T1). That's my problem and its solved.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:What makes Reef hard are the instabilities. T1/T2 Reef isn't any more of a challenge than any other fractal to a T4 capable group.It's not the impact on veteran fractal players we're talking about. It's how it impacts the
new
players. That's why, i believe, OP mentioned T1 and not T4.

You should read his post again then. Keep going until you hit

I found T1 Reef really annoying with my 250ess CMs team today.

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