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Why you guys hate CI and MOD? Because you do not try to cancel your skills or cast it one by one!


TAIKA.1903

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@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Does meta mirage even run sword though?

And why is thief being dragged into this debate over ci, this isn't a sprint race debate.

P.s nerf holo.

I noticed that I made a grave error in making a comparison that was supposed to have the conclusion of "MoD(without CI) is balanced because its use case as it currently stands is similar to headshot, with its advantages reasonably compensating for the mechanical differences between both of those classes" and bailed from the argument.My point didn't get made because its foundation isn't believed. I didn't intend for this to be a thief discussion.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:I'm inclined to agree with @"bravan.3876" on this.

MoD on its own is not a problem. if you're on your last legs and the mesmer hasnt burned MoD to try to stop you from eating their HP, then you already lost the fight.The synergy with that and CI is too much, because immob on daze can lead to immob locks just like the bugged entangle, that ALSO breaks your attempt to clear the immob if your clear of choice has a cast time.

on its own, MoD is fine. You can generally tell when the mesmer is going to use it. Itll either be burned trying to stop you from bursting them, or to stop you from healing. You can stow to bait it if you're 1200R away or less, move further, to heal for free, or pressure the mes into a cast to heal. While I think its obnoxious that they can just daze whatever they want, I'm not sure nerfing specifically it is going to help. It may be instant cast, but keep in mind that mesmers are generally slower than thieves and a long range cast may be necessary to interrupt people wanting to leave a fight theyre losing. I bet any nerf that causes them to, say, lose every encounter with warrior because rush/whirl (or swoop) outspeeds Power lock is going to feel really kitten bad.

You balance CI, and put a projectile tell on Arcane thievery, and I think you can call it a day until the next busted synergy.

Yeah Mesmers havent been slower than thieves in a long time. Unless you mean they are less good at running away, which sure, thats true, but Mesmer doesnt need to run away. Oh and if youre worried that you wont be able to stop a Warrior from running away if they save all their skills to do so? Good. Thieves havent been able to stop that for years, its about time Mesmer cant either." Yeah Mesmers havent been slower than thieves in a long time " <----- what ?

usually 1 dash/blink and swiftness is enaught to run away from mesmer, so preety much every class can do that right now.

Thats not been true ever since Mirage was around. They also have that blink in, well, blink. They also have 2 jaunts. And they have superspeed on demand that beats your swiftness. And repeatable 600 unit dashes. Youre not getting away from Mesmers unless you have a
lot
of mobility.

alright so you want sword mirage to chase someone using blink,jaunt and ambush sword?first of all using sword means you are power mirage ( that kinda sucks ) or you are trolling so nobody even needs to run away from you. Cmirage with sword means that for 9s you are useless, kinda like selfdaze for 9s.you just used our strongest mobility tools, too bad you cant use them if you wanna have impact.if i use superspeed,blink,sword and jaunt.it means i went chaos traitline with jaunt as power mesmer, what it means is that i have no damage, cc, survivibility and in return i have good mobility, on par with warriors, mb slightly better due to jumping on ledges.what you spew out is what usually happens with people that dont play the class they whine about, you play against condi mirage, you get whooped by good condi and you think, kitten mirage has good dueling ability!then different build power mirage kills you, and you think kitten mirage has a good burst damage !, then different build mirage runs away from you and you think kitten it even has amazing mobility!!!!, while in reality those are 3 different builds. cant have it all in 1 thing.

You get pseudo-superspeed from mirage. So no need for chaos traitline. Though, I should probably stop calling it superspeed, since while its twice as good as swiftness, its not quite as good as super-speed. No, you get that just from being mirage, no need to get any other traitlines. So, you still have the ludicrous power shatter burst that can kill almost anyone, mobility that outperforms warriors, and survivability that you get from being, well, a power shatter mirage. And no, you can have it all in one thing. I should know. I used it for a while, with all of these benefits in one build.

superspeed from being mirage -> LOLmobility better then warrior -> LOLshatter burst that can kill almost anyone LOOOL

66% extra movement speed. As I said, not quite as good as superspeeds 100%, but twice as good as Swiftness's 33%. Mobility better than warrior, well if you want to experience it first hand, try playing Warrior in WvW and see if you can run away from mirages. Unless you rush immideatly while a good distance away, you wont. And yeah, the GS shatter combo can kill almost anyone, you usually hit around, hm, 19k damage? More if you use the damage mantra but I always felt that was just unneccessary overkill.

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@Tayga.3192 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Are we pretending vigor and instant endurance regeneration doesnt exist again? The first reduces the baseline regeneration to 7.5 secondsNatural regen is 5%/s or 10 seconds for one dodge. With vigor, it's 7.5%/s or 6.67 seconds for one dodge.

but then you have 2 seperate ways to regain 50 endurance instantly. One of which has 9 seconds of cooldown. Thief only has 1, and thats a 60 second cooldown stunbreak. So, yeah, a lot easier to regain endurance.Thief has so many evades (and permavigor) they can afford to not take energy sigils, lol.

"no swiftness at all", so were first going to ignore that mirage gets better swiftness on mirage cloak?So you have approximately 7.5% (or 11.2% if you have permavigor, which you don't) uptime, which comes in 0.75 seconds bulks.Don't forget swiftness is already near speedcap out of combat too so you won't get any noticable difference between swiftness and Mirage dodge.

Were also going to ignore the fact that Superior Sigil of Agility gives swiftness?Nearly all sidenoders have way more swiftness than mirages anyway.

Alright, guess if you want results you cant get normally, you need to bend the truth a little. Also, Leap on 10 second, blatant lie, 900 range on infiltrators arrow, I assume youre not familiar with how it works (you move while its midair. It ends up being about 700 range usually, unless porting up ledges). So yeah, I suppose if you bend everything to your whims, even the truth can be false.You can port in Z direction unlike leap. Are we really comparing teleports to leaps?

Looks like you aren't the most knowledgeable when it comes to GW2's mechanics.

Edit: It also looks like you are talking about a Mirage who has Domination, Dueling and Chaos at the same time or something like that.

I was talking about initiative restoration, not endurance restoration. Endurance restoration is a different thing alltogether, though that being said you use energy sigils as thief. Both as S/D, and D/P thief. Its still probably the best sigil to have on shortbow.

Were talking specifically in combat, not out of combat. The whole context was chase scenarios. Out of combat, yes, thief is still more mobile. Elevation advantage alone makes sure they would be.

Which when chasing, doesnt matter unless youre chasing a thief, since theyre the only ones who will be porting ledges more than once. At which point it doesnt matter, because if a theif got to the stage where they can port back to back, youre not gonna catch up with them ever.

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@bravan.3876 said:Why you guys still feed this troll? What he says doesn't even worth any attention. In his world stowing, kiting, los and using environment are no valid plays and for that valid counters. Blocks, stabi, blinding etc are no counterplays. I guess he stands on points double dodge when he see a target watching in his direction and then runs out of ideas what to do to stay alive because nothing else is a counter than dodge, nothing else are valid and skilled plays. Just dodge nohead! If you can't dodge it you can just go afk and stop fighting the target because you lost already, yes sir that is how the game works

in bronze!Just let him talk to himself !Mirage dodgespeed is only to make Mirage able to move with a dodge like every other class can, it doesn't add any more movement than all other classes have with a dodge. Also claiming Mirage is faster than Thief... i mean rly he can't even get convinced by the obvious, stop wasting your time on him! I guess he is a close friend to the mouse guy complaining about Halos

You still have yet to explain how you stow cancel to prevent an instant interrupt. In fact, strangely whenever that gaping flaw in your argument ,that completely destroys it gets brought up, you just suddenly go quiet. I assume you have no retort and admit that youre just wrong? Also, you do know that, outside of thieves dash, the distance you cover by dodging, is the same distance you would cover by walking, right?

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Why you guys still feed this troll? What he says doesn't even worth any attention. In his world stowing, kiting, los and using environment are no valid plays and for that valid counters. Blocks, stabi, blinding etc are no counterplays. I guess he stands on points double dodge when he see a target watching in his direction and then runs out of ideas what to do to stay alive because nothing else is a counter than dodge, nothing else are valid and skilled plays. Just dodge nohead! If you can't dodge it you can just go afk and stop fighting the target because you lost already, yes sir that is how the game works

in bronze!Just let him talk to himself !Mirage dodgespeed is only to make Mirage able to move with a dodge like every other class can, it doesn't add any more movement than all other classes have with a dodge. Also claiming Mirage is faster than Thief... i mean rly he can't even get convinced by the obvious, stop wasting your time on him! I guess he is a close friend to the mouse guy complaining about Halos

You still have yet to explain how you stow cancel to prevent an instant interrupt. In fact, strangely whenever that gaping flaw in your argument ,that completely destroys it gets brought up, you just suddenly go quiet. I assume you have no retort and admit that youre just wrong? Also, you do know that, outside of thieves dash, the distance you cover by dodging, is the same distance you would cover by walking, right?

Search in a gaming lexicon for mind games, maybe that will help you. Aside from that last advice i don't talk to you anymore and the others should just do the same (can't deny i am a little bit selfish here because i always get notification when you answer him... annoying much). The waste of life time makes me cry.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:Also, you do know that, outside of thieves dash, the distance you cover by dodging, is the same distance you would cover by walking, right?

Dodge is 300 units per 0.75 sec in every direction while walking is 294 per sec OOC and 210 per sec IC.Mirage dodge is 261.5 per 0.75 sec in combat, only going forwards.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:I'm inclined to agree with @"bravan.3876" on this.

MoD on its own is not a problem. if you're on your last legs and the mesmer hasnt burned MoD to try to stop you from eating their HP, then you already lost the fight.The synergy with that and CI is too much, because immob on daze can lead to immob locks just like the bugged entangle, that ALSO breaks your attempt to clear the immob if your clear of choice has a cast time.

on its own, MoD is fine. You can generally tell when the mesmer is going to use it. Itll either be burned trying to stop you from bursting them, or to stop you from healing. You can stow to bait it if you're 1200R away or less, move further, to heal for free, or pressure the mes into a cast to heal. While I think its obnoxious that they can just daze whatever they want, I'm not sure nerfing specifically it is going to help. It may be instant cast, but keep in mind that mesmers are generally slower than thieves and a long range cast may be necessary to interrupt people wanting to leave a fight theyre losing. I bet any nerf that causes them to, say, lose every encounter with warrior because rush/whirl (or swoop) outspeeds Power lock is going to feel really kitten bad.

You balance CI, and put a projectile tell on Arcane thievery, and I think you can call it a day until the next busted synergy.

Yeah Mesmers havent been slower than thieves in a long time. Unless you mean they are less good at running away, which sure, thats true, but Mesmer doesnt need to run away. Oh and if youre worried that you wont be able to stop a Warrior from running away if they save all their skills to do so? Good. Thieves havent been able to stop that for years, its about time Mesmer cant either." Yeah Mesmers havent been slower than thieves in a long time " <----- what ?

usually 1 dash/blink and swiftness is enaught to run away from mesmer, so preety much every class can do that right now.

Thats not been true ever since Mirage was around. They also have that blink in, well, blink. They also have 2 jaunts. And they have superspeed on demand that beats your swiftness. And repeatable 600 unit dashes. Youre not getting away from Mesmers unless you have a
lot
of mobility.

alright so you want sword mirage to chase someone using blink,jaunt and ambush sword?first of all using sword means you are power mirage ( that kinda sucks ) or you are trolling so nobody even needs to run away from you. Cmirage with sword means that for 9s you are useless, kinda like selfdaze for 9s.you just used our strongest mobility tools, too bad you cant use them if you wanna have impact.if i use superspeed,blink,sword and jaunt.it means i went chaos traitline with jaunt as power mesmer, what it means is that i have no damage, cc, survivibility and in return i have good mobility, on par with warriors, mb slightly better due to jumping on ledges.what you spew out is what usually happens with people that dont play the class they whine about, you play against condi mirage, you get whooped by good condi and you think, kitten mirage has good dueling ability!then different build power mirage kills you, and you think kitten mirage has a good burst damage !, then different build mirage runs away from you and you think kitten it even has amazing mobility!!!!, while in reality those are 3 different builds. cant have it all in 1 thing.

You get pseudo-superspeed from mirage. So no need for chaos traitline. Though, I should probably stop calling it superspeed, since while its twice as good as swiftness, its not quite as good as super-speed. No, you get that just from being mirage, no need to get any other traitlines. So, you still have the ludicrous power shatter burst that can kill almost anyone, mobility that outperforms warriors, and survivability that you get from being, well, a power shatter mirage. And no, you can have it all in one thing. I should know. I used it for a while, with all of these benefits in one build.

superspeed from being mirage -> LOLmobility better then warrior -> LOLshatter burst that can kill almost anyone LOOOL

66% extra movement speed. As I said, not quite as good as superspeeds 100%, but twice as good as Swiftness's 33%. Mobility better than warrior, well if you want to experience it first hand, try playing Warrior in WvW and see if you can run away from mirages. Unless you rush immideatly while a good distance away, you wont. And yeah, the GS shatter combo can kill almost anyone, you usually hit around, hm, 19k damage? More if you use the damage mantra but I always felt that was just unneccessary overkill.

last time i took a look it was in pvp section, unless something changed ?in wvw mirage gets MUCH more energy generation ( dueling vigor ) + food + energy sigils give 50% instead of 25% so you get more ambushes = more mobility.the fact that you think 0,75s of 66% movespeed bonus counts as a mobility on dodge, yikes.also if you use mobility to chase down warrior, be it wvw or pvp you die. you dont run up close to warrior by using all your defensive tools and expect to survive.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Why you guys still feed this troll? What he says doesn't even worth any attention. In his world stowing, kiting, los and using environment are no valid plays and for that valid counters. Blocks, stabi, blinding etc are no counterplays. I guess he stands on points double dodge when he see a target watching in his direction and then runs out of ideas what to do to stay alive because nothing else is a counter than dodge, nothing else are valid and skilled plays. Just dodge nohead! If you can't dodge it you can just go afk and stop fighting the target because you lost already, yes sir that is how the game works

in bronze!Just let him talk to himself !Mirage dodgespeed is only to make Mirage able to move with a dodge like every other class can, it doesn't add any more movement than all other classes have with a dodge. Also claiming Mirage is faster than Thief... i mean rly he can't even get convinced by the obvious, stop wasting your time on him! I guess he is a close friend to the mouse guy complaining about Halos

You still have yet to explain how you stow cancel to prevent an instant interrupt. In fact, strangely whenever that gaping flaw in your argument ,that completely destroys it gets brought up, you just suddenly go quiet. I assume you have no retort and admit that youre just wrong? Also, you do know that, outside of thieves dash, the distance you cover by dodging, is the same distance you would cover by walking, right?

read about human reaction time ( The average reaction time is 284 milliseconds. ). it means that from the moment you start the casttime, if you stof weapon after 0,25s. your enemy will make decision to interupt, but he wont notice you stowing, since his reaction time is 284 milisecounds. Im sory man but no human alive can react instantly.

as for dodges, in combat dodge is better then moving forward and expecially better when you are slowed,chilled,hobbled.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:I'm inclined to agree with @"bravan.3876" on this.

MoD on its own is not a problem. if you're on your last legs and the mesmer hasnt burned MoD to try to stop you from eating their HP, then you already lost the fight.The synergy with that and CI is too much, because immob on daze can lead to immob locks just like the bugged entangle, that ALSO breaks your attempt to clear the immob if your clear of choice has a cast time.

on its own, MoD is fine. You can generally tell when the mesmer is going to use it. Itll either be burned trying to stop you from bursting them, or to stop you from healing. You can stow to bait it if you're 1200R away or less, move further, to heal for free, or pressure the mes into a cast to heal. While I think its obnoxious that they can just daze whatever they want, I'm not sure nerfing specifically it is going to help. It may be instant cast, but keep in mind that mesmers are generally slower than thieves and a long range cast may be necessary to interrupt people wanting to leave a fight theyre losing. I bet any nerf that causes them to, say, lose every encounter with warrior because rush/whirl (or swoop) outspeeds Power lock is going to feel really kitten bad.

You balance CI, and put a projectile tell on Arcane thievery, and I think you can call it a day until the next busted synergy.

Yeah Mesmers havent been slower than thieves in a long time. Unless you mean they are less good at running away, which sure, thats true, but Mesmer doesnt need to run away. Oh and if youre worried that you wont be able to stop a Warrior from running away if they save all their skills to do so? Good. Thieves havent been able to stop that for years, its about time Mesmer cant either." Yeah Mesmers havent been slower than thieves in a long time " <----- what ?

usually 1 dash/blink and swiftness is enaught to run away from mesmer, so preety much every class can do that right now.

Thats not been true ever since Mirage was around. They also have that blink in, well, blink. They also have 2 jaunts. And they have superspeed on demand that beats your swiftness. And repeatable 600 unit dashes. Youre not getting away from Mesmers unless you have a
lot
of mobility.

alright so you want sword mirage to chase someone using blink,jaunt and ambush sword?first of all using sword means you are power mirage ( that kinda sucks ) or you are trolling so nobody even needs to run away from you. Cmirage with sword means that for 9s you are useless, kinda like selfdaze for 9s.you just used our strongest mobility tools, too bad you cant use them if you wanna have impact.if i use superspeed,blink,sword and jaunt.it means i went chaos traitline with jaunt as power mesmer, what it means is that i have no damage, cc, survivibility and in return i have good mobility, on par with warriors, mb slightly better due to jumping on ledges.what you spew out is what usually happens with people that dont play the class they whine about, you play against condi mirage, you get whooped by good condi and you think, kitten mirage has good dueling ability!then different build power mirage kills you, and you think kitten mirage has a good burst damage !, then different build mirage runs away from you and you think kitten it even has amazing mobility!!!!, while in reality those are 3 different builds. cant have it all in 1 thing.

You get pseudo-superspeed from mirage. So no need for chaos traitline. Though, I should probably stop calling it superspeed, since while its twice as good as swiftness, its not quite as good as super-speed. No, you get that just from being mirage, no need to get any other traitlines. So, you still have the ludicrous power shatter burst that can kill almost anyone, mobility that outperforms warriors, and survivability that you get from being, well, a power shatter mirage. And no, you can have it all in one thing. I should know. I used it for a while, with all of these benefits in one build.

superspeed from being mirage -> LOLmobility better then warrior -> LOLshatter burst that can kill almost anyone LOOOL

66% extra movement speed. As I said, not quite as good as superspeeds 100%, but twice as good as Swiftness's 33%. Mobility better than warrior, well if you want to experience it first hand, try playing Warrior in WvW and see if you can run away from mirages. Unless you rush immideatly while a good distance away, you wont. And yeah, the GS shatter combo can kill almost anyone, you usually hit around, hm, 19k damage? More if you use the damage mantra but I always felt that was just unneccessary overkill.

last time i took a look it was in pvp section, unless something changed ?in wvw mirage gets MUCH more energy generation ( dueling vigor ) + food + energy sigils give 50% instead of 25% so you get more ambushes = more mobility.the fact that you think 0,75s of 66% movespeed bonus counts as a mobility on dodge, yikes.also if you use mobility to chase down warrior, be it wvw or pvp you die. you dont run up close to warrior by using all your defensive tools and expect to survive.

You are. WvW Mirage Shatter is much higher than 19k. And I was looking at PvP energy generation, not WvW either, again, tis much higher. And yes, the 66% does count. Its not much, but it adds up. And you usually chase a warrior if theyre low and youre about to kill them. Not if they can just turn around and kill you if you do.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:I'm inclined to agree with @"bravan.3876" on this.

MoD on its own is not a problem. if you're on your last legs and the mesmer hasnt burned MoD to try to stop you from eating their HP, then you already lost the fight.The synergy with that and CI is too much, because immob on daze can lead to immob locks just like the bugged entangle, that ALSO breaks your attempt to clear the immob if your clear of choice has a cast time.

on its own, MoD is fine. You can generally tell when the mesmer is going to use it. Itll either be burned trying to stop you from bursting them, or to stop you from healing. You can stow to bait it if you're 1200R away or less, move further, to heal for free, or pressure the mes into a cast to heal. While I think its obnoxious that they can just daze whatever they want, I'm not sure nerfing specifically it is going to help. It may be instant cast, but keep in mind that mesmers are generally slower than thieves and a long range cast may be necessary to interrupt people wanting to leave a fight theyre losing. I bet any nerf that causes them to, say, lose every encounter with warrior because rush/whirl (or swoop) outspeeds Power lock is going to feel really kitten bad.

You balance CI, and put a projectile tell on Arcane thievery, and I think you can call it a day until the next busted synergy.

Yeah Mesmers havent been slower than thieves in a long time. Unless you mean they are less good at running away, which sure, thats true, but Mesmer doesnt need to run away. Oh and if youre worried that you wont be able to stop a Warrior from running away if they save all their skills to do so? Good. Thieves havent been able to stop that for years, its about time Mesmer cant either." Yeah Mesmers havent been slower than thieves in a long time " <----- what ?

usually 1 dash/blink and swiftness is enaught to run away from mesmer, so preety much every class can do that right now.

Thats not been true ever since Mirage was around. They also have that blink in, well, blink. They also have 2 jaunts. And they have superspeed on demand that beats your swiftness. And repeatable 600 unit dashes. Youre not getting away from Mesmers unless you have a
lot
of mobility.

alright so you want sword mirage to chase someone using blink,jaunt and ambush sword?first of all using sword means you are power mirage ( that kinda sucks ) or you are trolling so nobody even needs to run away from you. Cmirage with sword means that for 9s you are useless, kinda like selfdaze for 9s.you just used our strongest mobility tools, too bad you cant use them if you wanna have impact.if i use superspeed,blink,sword and jaunt.it means i went chaos traitline with jaunt as power mesmer, what it means is that i have no damage, cc, survivibility and in return i have good mobility, on par with warriors, mb slightly better due to jumping on ledges.what you spew out is what usually happens with people that dont play the class they whine about, you play against condi mirage, you get whooped by good condi and you think, kitten mirage has good dueling ability!then different build power mirage kills you, and you think kitten mirage has a good burst damage !, then different build mirage runs away from you and you think kitten it even has amazing mobility!!!!, while in reality those are 3 different builds. cant have it all in 1 thing.

You get pseudo-superspeed from mirage. So no need for chaos traitline. Though, I should probably stop calling it superspeed, since while its twice as good as swiftness, its not quite as good as super-speed. No, you get that just from being mirage, no need to get any other traitlines. So, you still have the ludicrous power shatter burst that can kill almost anyone, mobility that outperforms warriors, and survivability that you get from being, well, a power shatter mirage. And no, you can have it all in one thing. I should know. I used it for a while, with all of these benefits in one build.

superspeed from being mirage -> LOLmobility better then warrior -> LOLshatter burst that can kill almost anyone LOOOL

66% extra movement speed. As I said, not quite as good as superspeeds 100%, but twice as good as Swiftness's 33%. Mobility better than warrior, well if you want to experience it first hand, try playing Warrior in WvW and see if you can run away from mirages. Unless you rush immideatly while a good distance away, you wont. And yeah, the GS shatter combo can kill almost anyone, you usually hit around, hm, 19k damage? More if you use the damage mantra but I always felt that was just unneccessary overkill.

last time i took a look it was in pvp section, unless something changed ?in wvw mirage gets MUCH more energy generation ( dueling vigor ) + food + energy sigils give 50% instead of 25% so you get more ambushes = more mobility.the fact that you think 0,75s of 66% movespeed bonus counts as a mobility on dodge, yikes.also if you use mobility to chase down warrior, be it wvw or pvp you die. you dont run up close to warrior by using all your defensive tools and expect to survive.

You are. WvW Mirage Shatter is much higher than 19k. And I was looking at PvP energy generation, not WvW either, again, tis much higher. And yes, the 66% does count. Its not much, but it adds up. And you usually chase a warrior if theyre low and youre about to kill them. Not if they can just turn around and kill you if you do.

they can turn around and kill you if you chase them, its not gonna take long. 0,3s for bullcharge and 0,5s for arcing and you are dead, heck could be even faster with quickness. Warrior doesnt even have to commit, gs3 throught mirage and continue kiting, mirage loses 1/4 hp and all clones. warrior gets healed gets might, if mirage keeps chasing that he gets 2shot and thats it.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Why you guys still feed this troll? What he says doesn't even worth any attention. In his world stowing, kiting, los and using environment are no valid plays and for that valid counters. Blocks, stabi, blinding etc are no counterplays. I guess he stands on points double dodge when he see a target watching in his direction and then runs out of ideas what to do to stay alive because nothing else is a counter than dodge, nothing else are valid and skilled plays. Just dodge nohead! If you can't dodge it you can just go afk and stop fighting the target because you lost already, yes sir that is how the game works

in bronze!Just let him talk to himself !Mirage dodgespeed is only to make Mirage able to move with a dodge like every other class can, it doesn't add any more movement than all other classes have with a dodge. Also claiming Mirage is faster than Thief... i mean rly he can't even get convinced by the obvious, stop wasting your time on him! I guess he is a close friend to the mouse guy complaining about Halos

You still have yet to explain how you stow cancel to prevent an instant interrupt. In fact, strangely whenever that gaping flaw in your argument ,that completely destroys it gets brought up, you just suddenly go quiet. I assume you have no retort and admit that youre just wrong? Also, you do know that, outside of thieves dash, the distance you cover by dodging, is the same distance you would cover by walking, right?

read about human reaction time ( The average reaction time is 284 milliseconds. ). it means that from the moment you start the casttime, if you stof weapon after 0,25s. your enemy will make decision to interupt, but he wont notice you stowing, since his reaction time is 284 milisecounds. Im sory man but no human alive can react instantly.

as for dodges, in combat dodge is better then moving forward and expecially better when you are slowed,chilled,hobbled.

They dont have to react instantly. If youre planning to do that, youre just gonna cancel your own skill. They have no reason to press the button. Youre basically hoping to predict their action, but you run into the problem that you have too many variables. Reaction time varies from person to person, there is input and network lag, so on and so forth. So, you have a very high likelyhood of trying to stowcancel too late and getting interrupted, or cancelling too early and just giving them a free cancelled skill. Your odds of actually getting the timing right are very low. So, this doesnt really owrk.

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I didnt ask questions from you, they all were adressed to Trevor, he seems to ignore all my posts.

That's because you aren't attacking anyone or creating logical fallacies. Although you may be disagreeing with me, you only state your opinions with a supporting comment or two, which is what you're supposed to be doing, and then move on with your day.

I don't feel a need to respond very often when people have proper conduct, unless I agree with what they are saying and have something to add.

~ Cheers

Edit -Oh and about this though:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Why are you calling @bravan.3876 mirage main if he is not?Why you talking about wvw in pvp section?Didnt you "quit" ?You said yourself power mesmer need it and without its weak but condi...(in fact it was easier to kill cmirage who ran mantra for me and way harder if they didnt) but still complaining ... I'm confused.If you want to nerf cmirage, you should understand what makes cmirage so strong ( I'm a bit lazy to make thread about it and most likely wont be heard xD) but a small hint is -> bleed on crit trait + IH + Scepter ambush = a lot of hits = a lot of bleeds. Tldr reduce number of hits from scepter ambush to reduce amount of bleeds produced. Or second solution would be give mesmer a real AMBUSH with the damage and make clone ambush condi duration lasts 0.5s so they do close to zero damage, this way you have to avoid only mesmer ambush and render clone ambush pretty useless.In short: its not condi mirage thread nerf, you are overestimating MoD as without interrupt traits its a waste of utility slot that could be filled with something way more useful, who are you trying to fool? You admit yourself that you just hate mirage and want to see the class nerfed.

  1. I don't believe for a second that guy isn't a Mirage main, or at least used to be one.
  2. I did quit, for the 2nd time actually. I spent a week looking for new games and then realized "again" that other games are actually shit tier quality compared to Guild Wars 2. People think the competitive scene is bad/dead in GW2, but I can assure you that is far worse in other games of the same genre. I don't want to quit GW2 for several reasons, but boy do I want to have a quality que system again wherever it is that I'm at.
  3. When I was discussing Power vs Condi requirement for MOD, I was talking about kill potential and defensive values both actually.
  4. No, I don't want to Mirage to be touched at all tbh, I like the way the class feels both power & condi, which I have been playing a lot more lately. But I have to be honest with feedback when I say that I believe clone ambush spam damage via IH is THE problem that makes everything on Condi Mirage feel overwhelming no matter what build variant that it runs.
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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I didnt ask questions from you, they all were adressed to Trevor, he seems to ignore all my posts.

That's because you aren't attacking anyone or creating logical fallacies. Although you may be disagreeing with me, you only state your opinions with a supporting comment or two, which is what you're supposed to be doing, and then move on with your day.

I don't feel a need to respond very often when people have proper conduct, unless I agree with what they are saying and have something to add.

~ CheersIts not an answer I was hoping for :disappointed:
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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Why you guys still feed this troll? What he says doesn't even worth any attention. In his world stowing, kiting, los and using environment are no valid plays and for that valid counters. Blocks, stabi, blinding etc are no counterplays. I guess he stands on points double dodge when he see a target watching in his direction and then runs out of ideas what to do to stay alive because nothing else is a counter than dodge, nothing else are valid and skilled plays. Just dodge nohead! If you can't dodge it you can just go afk and stop fighting the target because you lost already, yes sir that is how the game works

in bronze!Just let him talk to himself !Mirage dodgespeed is only to make Mirage able to move with a dodge like every other class can, it doesn't add any more movement than all other classes have with a dodge. Also claiming Mirage is faster than Thief... i mean rly he can't even get convinced by the obvious, stop wasting your time on him! I guess he is a close friend to the mouse guy complaining about Halos

You still have yet to explain how you stow cancel to prevent an instant interrupt. In fact, strangely whenever that gaping flaw in your argument ,that completely destroys it gets brought up, you just suddenly go quiet. I assume you have no retort and admit that youre just wrong? Also, you do know that, outside of thieves dash, the distance you cover by dodging, is the same distance you would cover by walking, right?

read about human reaction time ( The average reaction time is 284 milliseconds. ). it means that from the moment you start the casttime, if you stof weapon after 0,25s. your enemy will make decision to interupt, but he wont notice you stowing, since his reaction time is 284 milisecounds. Im sory man but no human alive can react instantly.

as for dodges, in combat dodge is better then moving forward and expecially better when you are slowed,chilled,hobbled.

They dont have to react instantly. If youre planning to do that, youre just gonna cancel your own skill. They have no reason to press the button. Youre basically hoping to predict their action, but you run into the problem that you have too many variables. Reaction time varies from person to person, there is input and network lag, so on and so forth. So, you have a very high likelyhood of trying to stowcancel too late and getting interrupted, or cancelling too early and just giving them a free cancelled skill. Your odds of actually getting the timing right are very low. So, this doesnt really owrk.

lets assume you play someone with good perfect connection. and you want to interupt important 1/2s casttime skill.lets assume also you have above average reaction time of 220 milisec, what it means is that stowing would be best made in 219 milisec, if perfectly made. oponent would be capable of noticing and reacting in abovementioned 220milisec adding up to 439milisec. if done correctly it gives 61milisec of leeway for the person using interupt to make a decision of canceling or not. this also assumes person using MoD has perfect internet connection, has above average reaction time while being 100% focused on interupting the ability.

if you KNOW that opponent WILL want to cancel your ability, if you stowed properly, you are more likely to succeed then to fail.

And if you do stow, and oponent doesnt daze, you lose 0,4s .... its not the end of the world in fact, it doesnt matter almost at all.

And whoever said that mirages movespeed on dodge is worse then thiefs swiftness on dodge ..... holly cow no words for you man.if you do some basic math you would realize that it takes 4 mirage dodges to cover as much ground as thief will cover with 1 dodge worth of swiftness. and thats not including long range dash from daredevil.

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I didnt ask questions from you, they all were adressed to Trevor, he seems to ignore all my posts.

That's because you aren't attacking anyone or creating logical fallacies. Although you may be disagreeing with me, you only state your opinions with a supporting comment or two, which is what you're supposed to be doing, and then move on with your day.

I don't feel a need to respond very often when people have proper conduct, unless I agree with what they are saying and have something to add.

~ CheersIts not an answer I was hoping for :disappointed:

Check the edit.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Why you guys still feed this troll? What he says doesn't even worth any attention. In his world stowing, kiting, los and using environment are no valid plays and for that valid counters. Blocks, stabi, blinding etc are no counterplays. I guess he stands on points double dodge when he see a target watching in his direction and then runs out of ideas what to do to stay alive because nothing else is a counter than dodge, nothing else are valid and skilled plays. Just dodge nohead! If you can't dodge it you can just go afk and stop fighting the target because you lost already, yes sir that is how the game works

in bronze!Just let him talk to himself !Mirage dodgespeed is only to make Mirage able to move with a dodge like every other class can, it doesn't add any more movement than all other classes have with a dodge. Also claiming Mirage is faster than Thief... i mean rly he can't even get convinced by the obvious, stop wasting your time on him! I guess he is a close friend to the mouse guy complaining about Halos

You still have yet to explain how you stow cancel to prevent an instant interrupt. In fact, strangely whenever that gaping flaw in your argument ,that completely destroys it gets brought up, you just suddenly go quiet. I assume you have no retort and admit that youre just wrong? Also, you do know that, outside of thieves dash, the distance you cover by dodging, is the same distance you would cover by walking, right?

read about human reaction time ( The average reaction time is 284 milliseconds. ). it means that from the moment you start the casttime, if you stof weapon after 0,25s. your enemy will make decision to interupt, but he wont notice you stowing, since his reaction time is 284 milisecounds. Im sory man but no human alive can react instantly.

as for dodges, in combat dodge is better then moving forward and expecially better when you are slowed,chilled,hobbled.

They dont have to react instantly. If youre planning to do that, youre just gonna cancel your own skill. They have no reason to press the button. Youre basically hoping to predict their action, but you run into the problem that you have too many variables. Reaction time varies from person to person, there is input and network lag, so on and so forth. So, you have a very high likelyhood of trying to stowcancel too late and getting interrupted, or cancelling too early and just giving them a free cancelled skill. Your odds of actually getting the timing right are very low. So, this doesnt really owrk.

lets assume you play someone with good perfect connection. and you want to interupt important 1/2s casttime skill.lets assume also you have above average reaction time of 220 milisec, what it means is that stowing would be best made in 219 milisec, if perfectly made. oponent would be capable of noticing and reacting in abovementioned 220milisec adding up to 439milisec. if done correctly it gives 61milisec of leeway for the person using interupt to make a decision of canceling or not. this also assumes person using MoD has perfect internet connection, has above average reaction time while being 100% focused on interupting the ability.

if you KNOW that opponent WILL want to cancel your ability, if you stowed properly, you are more likely to succeed then to fail.

And if you do stow, and oponent doesnt daze, you lose 0,4s .... its not the end of the world in fact, it doesnt matter almost at all.

And whoever said that mirages movespeed on dodge is worse then thiefs swiftness on dodge ..... holly cow no words for you man.if you do some basic math you would realize that it takes 4 mirage dodges to cover as much ground as thief will cover with 1 dodge worth of swiftness. and thats not including long range dash from daredevil.

@bravan.3876 said:Why you guys still feed this troll? What he says doesn't even worth any attention. In his world stowing, kiting, los and using environment are no valid plays and for that valid counters. Blocks, stabi, blinding etc are no counterplays. I guess he stands on points double dodge when he see a target watching in his direction and then runs out of ideas what to do to stay alive because nothing else is a counter than dodge, nothing else are valid and skilled plays. Just dodge nohead! If you can't dodge it you can just go afk and stop fighting the target because you lost already, yes sir that is how the game works

in bronze!Just let him talk to himself !Mirage dodgespeed is only to make Mirage able to move with a dodge like every other class can, it doesn't add any more movement than all other classes have with a dodge. Also claiming Mirage is faster than Thief... i mean rly he can't even get convinced by the obvious, stop wasting your time on him! I guess he is a close friend to the mouse guy complaining about Halos

You still have yet to explain how you stow cancel to prevent an instant interrupt. In fact, strangely whenever that gaping flaw in your argument ,that completely destroys it gets brought up, you just suddenly go quiet. I assume you have no retort and admit that youre just wrong? Also, you do know that, outside of thieves dash, the distance you cover by dodging, is the same distance you would cover by walking, right?

read about human reaction time ( The average reaction time is 284 milliseconds. ). it means that from the moment you start the casttime, if you stof weapon after 0,25s. your enemy will make decision to interupt, but he wont notice you stowing, since his reaction time is 284 milisecounds. Im sory man but no human alive can react instantly.

as for dodges, in combat dodge is better then moving forward and expecially better when you are slowed,chilled,hobbled.

They dont have to react instantly. If youre planning to do that, youre just gonna cancel your own skill. They have no reason to press the button. Youre basically hoping to predict their action, but you run into the problem that you have too many variables. Reaction time varies from person to person, there is input and network lag, so on and so forth. So, you have a very high likelyhood of trying to stowcancel too late and getting interrupted, or cancelling too early and just giving them a free cancelled skill. Your odds of actually getting the timing right are very low. So, this doesnt really owrk.

lets assume you play someone with good perfect connection. and you want to interupt important 1/2s casttime skill.lets assume also you have above average reaction time of 220 milisec, what it means is that stowing would be best made in 219 milisec, if perfectly made. oponent would be capable of noticing and reacting in abovementioned 220milisec adding up to 439milisec. if done correctly it gives 61milisec of leeway for the person using interupt to make a decision of canceling or not. this also assumes person using MoD has perfect internet connection, has above average reaction time while being 100% focused on interupting the ability.

if you KNOW that opponent WILL want to cancel your ability, if you stowed properly, you are more likely to succeed then to fail.

And if you do stow, and oponent doesnt daze, you lose 0,4s .... its not the end of the world in fact, it doesnt matter almost at all.

And whoever said that mirages movespeed on dodge is worse then thiefs swiftness on dodge ..... holly cow no words for you man.if you do some basic math you would realize that it takes 4 mirage dodges to cover as much ground as thief will cover with 1 dodge worth of swiftness. and thats not including long range dash from daredevil.

220 is actually probably about average. Im assuming youre taking your stats from the website that specifically doesnt have a way to deal with input and network leg, that skews the numbers upwards, but I suppose we can go with that. Again, the problem is, there is up to 100 ms variance in terms of human reaction time, easily 50 ms variance in network lag, and 20 in input lag. You have to deal with 170 ms variance you cant predict. Now, lets assume you stow at 220 ms. At that point, the enemy mightve already interrupted your skill, or mightve not used their interrupt yet. In fact, thats more likely than hitting the skill at that exact point in time. The other problem is that there is also the fact that auditory reaction time is faster, and stowing has a distinct sound, so they likely just dont end up using their interrupt.

No, you are more likely to fail than to succeed. You need to get lucky, because whatever point you choose in that 170 ms variance, the difference between visual and auditory reaction time means youre likely to cancel your own skill, or likely to fail to stow in time. While youre unlikely to time it right. And no, you lose 4 seconds. Skills that you cancel yourself or that cant finish executing go on a baseline 4 second cooldown. 4 seconds is a lot. Its enough time for mirage to kill you, even.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I didnt ask questions from you, they all were adressed to Trevor, he seems to ignore all my posts.

That's because you aren't attacking anyone or creating logical fallacies. Although you may be disagreeing with me, you only state your opinions with a supporting comment or two, which is what you're supposed to be doing, and then move on with your day.

I don't feel a need to respond very often when people have proper conduct, unless I agree with what they are saying and have something to add.

~ CheersIts not an answer I was hoping for :disappointed:

Check the edit.

Bravan never been mesmer main nor mirage main. I remember him for mesmer hate posts all around and everyone claimed that he is mesmer hater just like you.Mantra itself feeling useless without meaningful traits that support it, there are better utilities than it is.About IH+ambushes on condi, thats only a problem because of multiple hitting nature of the ambush, that procs bleeds, on hybrid it doesnt feel as opressive as this deadshot/wanderer crit chance amulets,not even close. That is a must have to be looked at, as mesmer main I see this clear that need a fix asap to stop this endless complaints, I would even suggest to make scepter ambush as one hit ability like staff ambush. Staff base duration slightly shaved on clones at least. I even suggested how to solve the issue with IH and clones. Fact is - ambush from the mesmer feels really underwhelming and actually its really weak, axe ambush got slaughtered and it does exact same damage as a clone, much meh. But overall without IH mirage would be a pretty dead spec, without it its just cant exist IMO.An example : just by spamming scepter ambush you will get barraged by crits from clones and stacking insane bleed amounts, when other ambushes wouldnt benefit from it much, axe to some extent but its kinda weak rn. Condi duration amulets are also at fault, never should have been introduced.I think condi mirage need to be looked at namely : scepter ambush and staff. Power mesmer really need a hand, at least revert unjustified nerfs :angry:

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CI has been in the game with a 2s immob since mid 2013: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chaotic_Interruption

In that state of balance even an "interrupt build" would only have about 5-6 CC's over about a 40s time period.Chaos StormMagic Bullet x2Mantra of Distraction x2 chargesDiversion 1-4 depending on clones

Now there were also trade offs, taking CI cost you either Illusionary Persona (shatter effect on self) or damage as you couldn't take IP and damage traits in domination and clone generation in duelling. Mantras also took over 3s to cast and you couldn't dodge while doing this.

In this iteration CI and mantra was balanced as you had less resources to interrupt with and higher trade offs for taking interrupts and their associated traits.

Fast forward to the current iteration of Arena Net and their idea of balance and we have a different state where over about a 40s period of time you will have:Chaos Storm x2 (+1 on heal)Magic bullet x3 (can have x4 with chain rupts and trait)Mantra of Distraction x4 chargesDiversion 2-8 depending on clones (diversion recharges by 15s when casting mantra)If you were in a power build as per original lock down build using sword you can add another 8 or so from mirage thrust.

Chaotic Interruption by contrast barely changed, it received might and a 2nd boon at specialisation update where it was still considered fine as CC hadn't been crept to cuckoo levels. Something else did also change though, we got expertise so now those condition duration can get increased so that 2s immob becomes 3s, we also got annulment sigil that rips stab as a priority, whoever put the green light on that should probably be told not to do it again as stability is an incredibly important and (supposed to be) rare boon. The mantra now also casts under 3s and you can dodge while casting now to prevent any counterplay.Edit: On top of this you have more damage from buffs to core over expansions as well as various aspects of the elite specs, mirage being one of the more egregious.

The question everyone needs to really ask themselves is are you happy with this much CC being in the game?

If you're happy with it then sure nerf CI and every on CC trait or interrupt trait into the floor and below, break out the guy who invented the abomination of balance that is sbooning and sic'em onto it.

If you're not happy with it then maybe you should be actively telling the devs you are not happy with the power creeped mess and spamfiesta that this game has become. Where every measure of skilful game play has been removed, dumbed down or mutilated.

The problem is not JUST MoD or CI or Chaos storm (edit) or elite specs, it's all of it. It's the successive power creep of HoT and everyone embracing it, finding excuses for the creep and patting ANet on the back for maintaining this power level. You showed them power creep is tolerated so when PoF came around and took it to the next level you shouldn't have been surprised by what you got.

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@"apharma.3741" said:CI has been in the game with a 2s immob since mid 2013: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chaotic_Interruption

In that state of balance even an "interrupt build" would only have about 5-6 CC's over about a 40s time period.Chaos StormMagic Bullet x2Mantra of Distraction x2 chargesDiversion 1-4 depending on clones

Now there were also trade offs, taking CI cost you either Illusionary Persona (shatter effect on self) or damage as you couldn't take IP and damage traits in domination and clone generation in duelling. Mantras also took over 3s to cast and you couldn't dodge while doing this.

In this iteration CI and mantra was balanced as you had less resources to interrupt with and higher trade offs for taking interrupts and their associated traits.

Fast forward to the current iteration of Arena Net and their idea of balance and we have a different state where over about a 40s period of time you will have:Chaos Storm x2 (+1 on heal)Magic bullet x3 (can have x4 with chain rupts and trait)Mantra of Distraction x4 chargesDiversion 2-8 depending on clones (diversion recharges by 15s when casting mantra)If you were in a power build as per original lock down build using sword you can add another 8 or so from mirage thrust.

Chaotic Interruption by contrast barely changed, it received might and a 2nd boon at specialisation update where it was still considered fine as CC hadn't been crept to cuckoo levels. Something else did also change though, we got expertise so now those condition duration can get increased so that 2s immob becomes 3s, we also got annulment sigil that rips stab as a priority, whoever put the green light on that should probably be told not to do it again as stability is an incredibly important and (supposed to be) rare boon. The mantra now also casts under 3s and you can dodge while casting now to prevent any counterplay.Edit: On top of this you have more damage from buffs to core over expansions as well as various aspects of the elite specs, mirage being one of the more egregious.

The question everyone needs to really ask themselves is are you happy with this much CC being in the game?

If you're happy with it then sure nerf CI and every on CC trait or interrupt trait into the floor and below, break out the guy who invented the abomination of balance that is sbooning and sic'em onto it.

If you're not happy with it then maybe you should be actively telling the devs you are not happy with the power creeped mess and spamfiesta that this game has become. Where every measure of skilful game play has been removed, dumbed down or mutilated.

The problem is not JUST MoD or CI or Chaos storm (edit) or elite specs, it's all of it. It's the successive power creep of HoT and everyone embracing it, finding excuses for the creep and patting ANet on the back for maintaining this power level. You showed them power creep is tolerated so when PoF came around and took it to the next level you shouldn't have been surprised by what you got.

Sry but no, CI never was a balanced trait even without Mantra it was at least problematic. With Mantra it is totally insane. An instant lock down should not exist, no matter how much cd it has. Mantra was op with stun and it was even more op with immob in addition to daze or stun. And don't say Mesmer had no dmg when taking chaos. The old lock down Mesmer just as current Mesmers had/ have still more than enough dmg even when taking one defensive traitline. Current core Mantra Mesmer still can oneshot most targets with inspiration just as a stealthspam chaosline pu core Mes can. Even when a chaos Mesmer can't oneshot totally tanky targets, the burst was/is still high enough to pressure the target very hard and make the Mesmer highly favored in a fight when hit a lucky interrupt on autoattack and immob so target need to use stunbreak+condiremove (at least every class doesn't have a teleport stunbreak out of dmg range) to avoid the burst. Since the gs burst is possible to do in under 1 secs it is immpossible to remove the daze/stun and the immob right on time.

CI+Mantra rly barely have any counterplay because interrupting autoattacks is enough, means you rly would need to cover every single play over the whole fight duration by one of the 10 counters i listed for Mantra alone. Means pretty much don't fight the Mesmer at all because no one can perma cover autoattacks/ every single skill you wanna use vs the Mesmer.

Taking Mantra out of the math we are still left with an interupt trait giving so much reward that braindead spamming (not instant) cc and hope for a lucky interrupt on ONLY autoattacks is enough to flip the fight in Mesmers favor or even completely win it. Same problem we had with Pulm. Impact on Thief pre nerf when the dmg could crit and was so high, that spamming it and hope for some autoattack interrupt was rewarding enough for the Thief to use all initiative on it. Don't you remember all the pro Headshotspammer pre nerf of Pulm.Impact?

CI itself is and always was highly problematic without Mantra already, because interrupt traits aren't allowed to be that strong that interrupting an autoattack accidently/ random by mindlessly spamming cc is already enough to win the fight (and Mesmer always had enough cc more than dodges and surely enough to make one of it hit by accident on autoattack even when played bad). If Anet is able to make interrupt traits not proc on autoattack than interrupt traits could be designed a bit stronger than currently but atm it shouldn't be stronger than Powerblock what has laughable dmg, no killer condieffect and the main part (higher cd on interrupted skills) doesn't even work on autoattacks or skills without any cd.

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@apharma.3741 said:You showed them power creep is tolerated so when PoF came around and took it to the next level you shouldn't have been surprised by what you got.Remind me when everyone told them EM shouldnt be released but it was, also everyone defend their broken specs and enjoy it, heh.Also where I can find annulment boon remove priority if you say it has stab removal as first priority?

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@bravan.3876 said:Sry but no, CI never was a balanced trait even without Mantra it was at least problematic. With Mantra it is totally insane. An instant lock down should not exist, no matter how much cd it has. Mantra was op with stun and it was even more op with immob in addition to daze or stun. And don't say Mesmer had no dmg when taking chaos. The old lock down Mesmer just as current Mesmers had/ have still more than enough dmg even when taking one defensive traitline. Current core Mantra Mesmer still can oneshot most targets with inspiration just as a stealthspam chaosline pu core Mes can. Even when a chaos Mesmer can't oneshot totally tanky targets, the burst was/is still high enough to pressure the target very hard and make the Mesmer highly favored in a fight when hit a lucky interrupt on autoattack and immob so target need to use stunbreak+condiremove (at least every class doesn't have a teleport stunbreak out of dmg range) to avoid the burst. Since the gs burst is possible to do in under 1 secs it is immpossible to remove the daze/stun and the immob right on time.

I agree lots of u said before, but I disagree this one. CI+MOD was a bad build because there was a stun trait in domination before. And I could said, only me play this CI+MOD+ power Chrono about 6 seasons before in plat. Because if mesmers wanna one shot people, they would choice domination and dueling because they do not have to care if they could interrupt target or not. They do not have to check or guess if enemy is casting or would cast at next sec. And there are lots of good traits for dealing damage in domination and dueling.

If a power mesmer choices the Choas, that means he can't one shot anyone.In my experience, I need 2~3 interrupts when I 1v1.When I did interrupt them, I must have damage skills or I just stand there, auto-attack and then waste the chance.(Please remeber, power mesmers have to wait about 10 sec for a burst, if I did not interrupt them or interrupt them at wrong time, all I can do is gs1 them. But if I hold my burst and wait for interrupt, most of time all I can do is auto-attack, too. that is why I said most of mesmers would not choice CI+MOD before. It is so useless in some situations.)

The reason I played CI+MOD before is for teamfights, most of time, even if I stun good players (plat1~legendary), they still have skills for breaking stun.But if I focused on their casting time and did interrupt, they couldn't just run away with stunbreak skills, because they got immobilized.

But as I said, I must choice Chaos trait, that means I can choice only dueling or domination for the last trait I can take.You must know mesmers have to focus on interrupting and then CI would be good. If mesmers just MOD randomly, CI would become a useless thing.

I just want you know if CI+MOD is OP, it can't stay in gw2 since 2013. People hate it now because CI+MOD+pistol trait+condi mirage can create so many kinds of condi and people can't clean all of them even they bring condi clean skills. But for power mesmers, CI+MOD is ok.

Whatsoever, anet already think CI is unbalance...., I just hope they would only remove the immobilize.(But I guess they would remove CI forever.... sigh... So tired.)

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@TAIKA.1903 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Sry but no, CI never was a balanced trait even without Mantra it was at least problematic. With Mantra it is totally insane. An instant lock down should not exist, no matter how much cd it has. Mantra was op with stun and it was even more op with immob in addition to daze or stun. And don't say Mesmer had no dmg when taking chaos. The old lock down Mesmer just as current Mesmers had/ have still more than enough dmg even when taking one defensive traitline. Current core Mantra Mesmer still can oneshot most targets with inspiration just as a stealthspam chaosline pu core Mes can. Even when a chaos Mesmer can't oneshot totally tanky targets, the burst was/is still high enough to pressure the target very hard and make the Mesmer highly favored in a fight when hit a lucky interrupt on autoattack and immob so target need to use stunbreak+condiremove (at least every class doesn't have a teleport stunbreak out of dmg range) to avoid the burst. Since the gs burst is possible to do in under 1 secs it is immpossible to remove the daze/stun and the immob right on time.

I agree lots of u said before, but I disagree this one. CI+MOD was a bad build because there was a stun trait in domination before. And I could said, only me play this CI+MOD+ power Chrono about 6 seasons before in plat. Because if mesmers wanna one shot people, they would choice domination and dueling because they do not have to care if they could interrupt target or not. They do not have to check or guess if enemy is casting or would cast at next sec. And there are lots of good traits for dealing damage in domination and dueling.

If a power mesmer choices the Choas, that means he can't one shot anyone.In my experience, I need 2~3 interrupts when I 1v1.When I did interrupt them, I must have damage skills or I just stand there, auto-attack and then waste the chance.(Please remeber, power mesmers have to wait about 10 sec for a burst, if I did not interrupt them or interrupt them at wrong time, all I can do is gs1 them. But if I hold my burst and wait for interrupt, most of time all I can do is auto-attack, too. that is why I said most of mesmers would not choice CI+MOD before. It is so useless in some situations.)

The reason I played CI+MOD before is for teamfights, most of time, even if I stun good players (plat1~legendary), they still have skills for breaking stun.But if I focused on their casting time and did interrupt, they couldn't just run away with stunbreak skills, because they got immobilized.

But as I said, I must choice Chaos trait, that means I can choice only dueling or domination for the last trait I can take.You must know mesmers have to focus on interrupting and then CI would be good. If mesmers just MOD randomly, CI would become a useless thing.

I just want you know if CI+MOD is OP, it can't stay in gw2 since 2013. People hate it now because CI+MOD+pistol trait+condi mirage can create so many kinds of condi and people can't clean all of them even they bring condi clean skills. But for power mesmers, CI+MOD is ok.

Whatsoever, anet already think CI is unbalance...., I just hope they would only remove the immobilize.(But I guess they would remove CI forever.... sigh... So tired.)

You are right, that the oneshot Mes using Mantra of Distraction wth a Stun in old CS trait in Domination was also broken. I even said that myself. The reason is just the same: instant range lock down. In these builds Mantra wasn't used for intrrupts at all, it was used for a lock down to hit other dmg skills. But that something else was also broken is no argument against that Ci was problematic too. Both traits now got addressed and that is one of the few changes i think Anet did good with. Yes my first reaction to the complete disable was the same: What a bad way of balancing. I know it is a temporary hotfix but would it be so much more work to only disable the immob and not the whole trait? Maybe there are problems with only disable the immob, i dunno.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Sry but no, CI never was a balanced trait even without Mantra it was at least problematic. With Mantra it is totally insane. An instant lock down should not exist, no matter how much cd it has. Mantra was op with stun and it was even more op with immob in addition to daze or stun. And don't say Mesmer had no dmg when taking chaos. The old lock down Mesmer just as current Mesmers had/ have still more than enough dmg even when taking one defensive traitline. Current core Mantra Mesmer still can oneshot most targets with inspiration just as a stealthspam chaosline pu core Mes can. Even when a chaos Mesmer can't oneshot totally tanky targets, the burst was/is still high enough to pressure the target very hard and make the Mesmer highly favored in a fight when hit a lucky interrupt on autoattack and immob so target need to use stunbreak+condiremove (at least every class doesn't have a teleport stunbreak out of dmg range) to avoid the burst. Since the gs burst is possible to do in under 1 secs it is immpossible to remove the daze/stun and the immob right on time.

I agree lots of u said before, but I disagree this one. CI+MOD was a bad build because there was a stun trait in domination before. And I could said, only me play this CI+MOD+ power Chrono about 6 seasons before in plat. Because if mesmers wanna one shot people, they would choice domination and dueling because they do not have to care if they could interrupt target or not. They do not have to check or guess if enemy is casting or would cast at next sec. And there are lots of good traits for dealing damage in domination and dueling.

If a power mesmer choices the Choas, that means he can't one shot anyone.In my experience, I need 2~3 interrupts when I 1v1.When I did interrupt them, I must have damage skills or I just stand there, auto-attack and then waste the chance.(Please remeber, power mesmers have to wait about 10 sec for a burst, if I did not interrupt them or interrupt them at wrong time, all I can do is gs1 them. But if I hold my burst and wait for interrupt, most of time all I can do is auto-attack, too. that is why I said most of mesmers would not choice CI+MOD before. It is so useless in some situations.)

The reason I played CI+MOD before is for teamfights, most of time, even if I stun good players (plat1~legendary), they still have skills for breaking stun.But if I focused on their casting time and did interrupt, they couldn't just run away with stunbreak skills, because they got immobilized.

But as I said, I must choice Chaos trait, that means I can choice only dueling or domination for the last trait I can take.You must know mesmers have to focus on interrupting and then CI would be good. If mesmers just MOD randomly, CI would become a useless thing.

I just want you know if CI+MOD is OP, it can't stay in gw2 since 2013. People hate it now because CI+MOD+pistol trait+condi mirage can create so many kinds of condi and people can't clean all of them even they bring condi clean skills. But for power mesmers, CI+MOD is ok.

Whatsoever, anet already think CI is unbalance...., I just hope they would only remove the immobilize.(But I guess they would remove CI forever.... sigh... So tired.)

You are right, that the oneshot Mes using Mantra of Distraction wth a Stun in old CS trait in Domination was also broken. I even said that myself. The reason is just the same: instant range lock down. In these builds Mantra wasn't used for intrrupts at all, it was used for a lock down to hit other dmg skills. But that something else was also broken is no argument against that Ci was problematic too. Both traits now got addressed and that is one of the few changes i think Anet did good with. Yes my first reaction to the complete disable was the same: What a bad way of balancing. I know it is a temporary hotfix but would it be so much more work to only disable the immob and not the whole trait? Maybe there are problems with only disable the immob, i dunno.They can disable traits without need to update the game(patch).Without a stun/immobilize power burst is nearly impossible to land, unless they are willingly eat it without evading/blocking/whatnot. Missing/not killing with a burst for glassy mesmer means he most likely get killed himself.Aned seen @Lincolnbeard.1735 and added conversion from daze to stun as he suggested, at least somewhere to help with a burst landing.I still have well written moment in my memory from Helseth's stream during core days without this CS trait, it was on temple of the silent storm, he was raging the entire game because couldnt land his burst on anyone :P
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@praqtos.9035 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Sry but no, CI never was a balanced trait even without Mantra it was at least problematic. With Mantra it is totally insane. An instant lock down should not exist, no matter how much cd it has. Mantra was op with stun and it was even more op with immob in addition to daze or stun. And don't say Mesmer had no dmg when taking chaos. The old lock down Mesmer just as current Mesmers had/ have still more than enough dmg even when taking one defensive traitline. Current core Mantra Mesmer still can oneshot most targets with inspiration just as a stealthspam chaosline pu core Mes can. Even when a chaos Mesmer can't oneshot totally tanky targets, the burst was/is still high enough to pressure the target very hard and make the Mesmer highly favored in a fight when hit a lucky interrupt on autoattack and immob so target need to use stunbreak+condiremove (at least every class doesn't have a teleport stunbreak out of dmg range) to avoid the burst. Since the gs burst is possible to do in under 1 secs it is immpossible to remove the daze/stun and the immob right on time.

I agree lots of u said before, but I disagree this one. CI+MOD was a bad build because there was a stun trait in domination before. And I could said, only me play this CI+MOD+ power Chrono about 6 seasons before in plat. Because if mesmers wanna one shot people, they would choice domination and dueling because they do not have to care if they could interrupt target or not. They do not have to check or guess if enemy is casting or would cast at next sec. And there are lots of good traits for dealing damage in domination and dueling.

If a power mesmer choices the Choas, that means he can't one shot anyone.In my experience, I need 2~3 interrupts when I 1v1.When I did interrupt them, I must have damage skills or I just stand there, auto-attack and then waste the chance.(Please remeber, power mesmers have to wait about 10 sec for a burst, if I did not interrupt them or interrupt them at wrong time, all I can do is gs1 them. But if I hold my burst and wait for interrupt, most of time all I can do is auto-attack, too. that is why I said most of mesmers would not choice CI+MOD before. It is so useless in some situations.)

The reason I played CI+MOD before is for teamfights, most of time, even if I stun good players (plat1~legendary), they still have skills for breaking stun.But if I focused on their casting time and did interrupt, they couldn't just run away with stunbreak skills, because they got immobilized.

But as I said, I must choice Chaos trait, that means I can choice only dueling or domination for the last trait I can take.You must know mesmers have to focus on interrupting and then CI would be good. If mesmers just MOD randomly, CI would become a useless thing.

I just want you know if CI+MOD is OP, it can't stay in gw2 since 2013. People hate it now because CI+MOD+pistol trait+condi mirage can create so many kinds of condi and people can't clean all of them even they bring condi clean skills. But for power mesmers, CI+MOD is ok.

Whatsoever, anet already think CI is unbalance...., I just hope they would only remove the immobilize.(But I guess they would remove CI forever.... sigh... So tired.)

You are right, that the oneshot Mes using Mantra of Distraction wth a Stun in old CS trait in Domination was also broken. I even said that myself. The reason is just the same: instant range lock down. In these builds Mantra wasn't used for intrrupts at all, it was used for a lock down to hit other dmg skills. But that something else was also broken is no argument against that Ci was problematic too. Both traits now got addressed and that is one of the few changes i think Anet did good with. Yes my first reaction to the complete disable was the same: What a bad way of balancing. I know it is a temporary hotfix but would it be so much more work to only disable the immob and not the whole trait? Maybe there are problems with only disable the immob, i dunno.They can disable traits without need to update the game(patch).Without a stun/immobilize power burst is nearly impossible to land, unless they are willingly eat it without evading/blocking/whatnot. Missing/not killing with a burst for glassy mesmer means he most likely get killed himself.Aned seen @Lincolnbeard.1735 and added conversion from daze to stun as he suggested, at least somewhere to help with a burst landing.I still have well written moment in my memory from Helseth's stream during core days without this CS trait, it was on temple of the silent storm, he was raging the entire game because couldnt land his burst on anyone :P

Ok ty for the information. Still don't see a problem to make a patch to only disable immob but it explains it a little bit at least.Didn't they have stun on f3 and Mantra in core days? Hardly remember, i only know Memser was played as Power without Inspiration or Chaos in PvP meta or wasn't played at all in higher ranked/ esl and if yes than only because of portal. Mesmer never had a balance issue worth remembering on Power without one of these low skill ceiling traitlines (Inspiration, Chaos). I only remember few ppl running chaos lock down power in core days in PvP (mostyl trolling in hotjoin or in WvW) and it was always annoying to fight against. I remember Helseth's video from core days saying Mesmer is not viable but i am.I know they had stun in Domination since traitline reword right before hot release and i remember that because Powerblock hit with like 7-10k after the traitline patch and needed to be fixed fast.

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@"bravan.3876" said:-snip-I dont know what you are discussing here tbh.All issues been caused by condi mirage and even without CI, with or without mantra, its still an issue.Mad mesmer haters trying to get mesmer nerfed everywhere now, literally.Pretty ironically they called mesmer ci "degenerate" when condi thief and spamsmith are still there and get zero attention

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