[Suggestion] Male Norn looking like hunters....

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@coso.9173 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Frostfang.5109" said:(All this referres to MALE Norn)Norn are hunters... Then why do they look like super heavy weightlifters? No creature that heavy would be able to track and hunt an animal for any distance.

Can we have one even slimmer/more slender (yet muscular) norn body type so you can make a Norn that looks like a real hunter!?

The slimmest now existing is the ONLY one I find looking decent.

Their proportions is one of the key things that differentiates norn from just being "tall humans". If anything, female norn should be made wider.

And let's face it, even if the norn were skinnier like humans, at the height they have, they'd still be heavy.

"their proportions" only apply for males though, because god forbid we have females that look like that....

I did mention that the female norn should be wider.

Though if we're to be technical, there is at least one aspect of female norn which are larger than any human female's.

[Tiviana.2650]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@coso.9173 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Frostfang.5109" said:(All this referres to MALE Norn)Norn are hunters... Then why do they look like super heavy weightlifters? No creature that heavy would be able to track and hunt an animal for any distance.

Can we have one even slimmer/more slender (yet muscular) norn body type so you can make a Norn that looks like a real hunter!?

The slimmest now existing is the ONLY one I find looking decent.

Their proportions is one of the key things that differentiates norn from just being "tall humans". If anything, female norn should be made wider.

And let's face it, even if the norn were skinnier like humans, at the height they have, they'd still be heavy.

"their proportions" only apply for males though, because god forbid we have females that look like that....

I did mention that the female norn should be wider.

Though if we're to be technical, there is at least

one

aspect of female norn which are larger than any human female's.

^^ she has huge ...tracks of land?

[coso.9173]

my issue is they made males pretty deformed, short stumpy legs, no necks and not defined muscles, which are things not considered attractive to most people. and then they go out and make female norns amazon supermodels, with huge boobs, and tiny waists. it's like "really?"but that ship sailed a long time ago. I'd love to play a norn, but those proportions are way off and I have trouble seeing how people actually play them and it doesn't bother them. :/

[Elspereth.1280]

@"coso.9173" said:my issue is they made males pretty deformed, short stumpy legs, no necks and not defined muscles, which are things not considered attractive to most people. and then they go out and make female norns amazon supermodels, with huge boobs, and tiny waists. it's like "really?"but that ship sailed a long time ago. I'd love to play a norn, but those proportions are way off and I have trouble seeing how people actually play them and it doesn't bother them. :/

I, for one, like the sexual dimorphism (and I play norn males and females).

[coso.9173]

to me it dpeends which kind of sexual dimorphism, when it perpetuates the stereotype of "even if the males are horrible, the females have to be sexy, because no one will play a different kind of female character" I don't agree with it.

[Elspereth.1280]

But that's just it, in my opinion the males aren't horrible.

[coso.9173]

of course tastes differ wildly betwen everyone. but if you show a female norn, 90% of the people would say it's physically attractive. now try the same with a male norn, do you think the same thing would happen?

[Elspereth.1280]

I am not disagreeing that to most people the norn females are physically attractive and the men are not. I see it more like Robert Asprin's Myth series where the inhabitants of the dimension of Trollia are Trollops (the females) and Trolls (the males).And if you think there is some type of stereotype being perpetuated, does that mean that players of charr and asura necessarily find those characters to be sexy (maybe they do, maybe they don't) or do they just want to play something other than humans (and I don't consider norn to be nothing more than big humans)?

[coso.9173]

to clarify, just because i think they followed that stereotype with norns doesn't mean i think they followed it with all races.clearly with others there is much more consistency.

[Westenev.5289]

@coso.9173 said:of course tastes differ wildly betwen everyone. but if you show a female norn, 90% of the people would say it's physically attractive. now try the same with a male norn, do you think the same thing would happen?

If I may pull numbers from your department of fake statistics, 90.8% of people would swoon over a norns elaborate mustashe.

[Ben K.6238]

@coso.9173 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Their proportions is one of the key things that differentiates norn from just being "tall humans". If anything, female norn should be made wider.

And let's face it, even if the norn were skinnier like humans, at the height they have, they'd still be heavy.

"their proportions" only apply for males though, because god forbid we have females that look like that....

If female norn had the bodybuilder physique of the male norn, I might have created one because that actually sounds interesting.

[coso.9173]

@Westenev.5289 said:

@coso.9173 said:of course tastes differ wildly betwen everyone. but if you show a female norn, 90% of the people would say it's physically attractive. now try the same with a male norn, do you think the same thing would happen?

If I may pull numbers from your department of fake statistics, 90.8% of people would swoon over a norns elaborate mustashe.

fake statistics? so you'll just ignore that female norns look like mostly any kind of female fitness model? that's a body most people find attractive. do male norns look like a male fitness model? or ANY kind of model? no. they don't. they look like a cartoon version of a strongman, but with tiny thin legs.

[SexyMofo.8923]

Bears only eat honey.

[Game of Bones.8975]

It's Bergmann's Law. Essentially, the larger the animal the more likely they are to inhabit Northern, colder climates and smaller animals inhabit the the Southern, warmer climates.

Look at the bears, moose, bison, wolves, and elk as primary examples. There are plenty of smaller animals in the arctic as well; snowshoe hares, fox, owls, and the weasel family. Even reindeer aren't that big.

The Dev's are just focusing on the fact it takes a hearty individual to live in that environment year-round.

[Tarlonniel.6534]

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"coso.9173" said:"their proportions" only apply for males though, because god forbid we have females that look like that....

If female norn had the bodybuilder physique of the male norn, I might have created one because that actually sounds interesting.

This concept art from the GW1 wiki is interesting:

It's as if the artist was giving three different interpretations, the right hand one more in line with lore, the left hand one your bog standard amazon giantess, and the middle one a compromise between the two.

I think "bog standard" is pretty much what we got, though. That's a shame.

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

@Tarlonniel.6534 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"coso.9173" said:"their proportions" only apply for males though, because god forbid we have females that look like that....

If female norn had the bodybuilder physique of the male norn, I might have created one because that actually sounds interesting.

This concept art from the GW1 wiki is interesting:

It's as if the artist was giving three different interpretations, the right hand one more in line with lore, the left hand one your bog standard amazon giantess, and the middle one a compromise between the two.

I think "bog standard" is pretty much what we got, though. That's a shame.

All three of those made it into GW1: the ["bog standard" one](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Tanni_Silvermane.jpg ""bog standard" one") is one of the most common female norn in the game, but both the ["lore" one](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Myrun.jpg ""lore" one") and the ["compromise" one](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Birna.jpg ""compromise" one") are used for a few NPCs.

Personally, my main problem with how norn player characters look is that they can't get the clothes and robes their shamans and havrouns wear...

[Frostfang.5109]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:It's Bergmann's Law. Essentially, the larger the animal the more likely they are to inhabit Northern, colder climates and smaller animals inhabit the the Southern, warmer climates.

Look at the bears, moose, bison, wolves, and elk as primary examples. There are plenty of smaller animals in the arctic as well; snowshoe hares, fox, owls, and the weasel family. Even reindeer aren't that big.

The Dev's are just focusing on the fact it takes a hearty individual to live in that environment year-round.

Elephants, giragfes, oxes, gazelles, large cats, gorillas, hippos, crocodiles, .... . they all live in warm climates and they are quite big to me.

[Frostfang.5109]

@Tiviana.2650 said:I think we are applying earth hunter gatherer types to tyria. Its a make believe world anything can be a hunter. Besides my family has big men 6'2 to 6'7 they all hunt, some bowhunt, try telling them they are too big to hunt.

But i guess that they are not as wide as they are tall? Some norn frames are almost as wide as they are tall. I dont think the hight is the problem, the belgian-blue syndrome of musslemass is.

[Ashen.2907]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:It's Bergmann's Law. Essentially, the larger the animal the more likely they are to inhabit Northern, colder climates and smaller animals inhabit the the Southern, warmer climates.

Look at the bears, moose, bison, wolves, and elk as primary examples. There are plenty of smaller animals in the arctic as well; snowshoe hares, fox, owls, and the weasel family. Even reindeer aren't that big.

The Dev's are just focusing on the fact it takes a hearty individual to live in that environment year-round.

Most of the largest land animals live in warm to temperate environments.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

@Tarlonniel.6534 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"coso.9173" said:"their proportions" only apply for males though, because god forbid we have females that look like that....

If female norn had the bodybuilder physique of the male norn, I might have created one because that actually sounds interesting.

This concept art from the GW1 wiki is interesting:

It's as if the artist was giving three different interpretations, the right hand one more in line with lore, the left hand one your bog standard amazon giantess, and the middle one a compromise between the two.

I think "bog standard" is pretty much what we got, though. That's a shame.

All three of those made it into GW1: the ["bog standard" one](

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Tanni_Silvermane.jpg

""bog standard" one") is one of the most common female norn in the game, but both the ["lore" one](

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Myrun.jpg

""lore" one") and the ["compromise" one](

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Birna.jpg

""compromise" one") are used for a few NPCs.

That concept art wasn't really "what should female norn look like" but rather designs for "warrior/hunter" - "shaman" - "merchant" in GW1.

I think the main reason it didn't convert to GW2 is because all NPCs of playable races (mostly) effectively use the character creation to make the models, so the NPCs' limits in GW2 are the PCs' limits. Why they didn't include wider options is the question, but throughout GW2's history, it's been slowly going further and further from the level of GW1's realism in fantasy.

[Game of Bones.8975]

https://www.britannica.com/science/Bergmanns-Rule

Bergmann’s Rule, in zoology, principle correlating external temperature and the ratio of body surface to weight in warm-blooded animals. Birds and mammals in cold regions have been observed to be bulkier than individuals of the same species in warm regions. The principle was proposed by Carl Bergmann, a 19th-century German biologist, to account for an adaptive mechanism to conserve or to radiate body heat, depending on climate.

In my initial post, I was merely giving a very simple overview of the rule, not the complete version. I know that some of the largest animals live closer to the equator, but they don't have a direct species link to any animal living in a colder climate. If mastodons still roamed the tundra, I'm sure they would be larger then the elephants of today.

[Linken.6345]

@"coso.9173" said:to me it dpeends which kind of sexual dimorphism, when it perpetuates the stereotype of "even if the males are horrible, the females have to be sexy, because no one will play a different kind of female character" I don't agree with it.

Asura say hello with their diffrent kind of female.

[Tiviana.2650]

@Tarlonniel.6534 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"coso.9173" said:"their proportions" only apply for males though, because god forbid we have females that look like that....

If female norn had the bodybuilder physique of the male norn, I might have created one because that actually sounds interesting.

This concept art from the GW1 wiki is interesting:

It's as if the artist was giving three different interpretations, the right hand one more in line with lore, the left hand one your bog standard amazon giantess, and the middle one a compromise between the two.

I think "bog standard" is pretty much what we got, though. That's a shame.

Umm no we got the middle one. The chest and shoulders are broader on gw2 female norn than the one on the left of that picture. And no way they have that small a waist. I would say if anything we have a mix of middle and left.

[aetemes.2603]

Wow norn males aren't sexy??? really??? I didn't know that's the consensus??? for real??

Julius Bjornsson??? are there any females commenting on this that I missed??.

If anything it's human males that look a little uhh...like what is that fiddling with their hands that they do are they about to enter a buisness meeting?.

Norn females all have doll faces...I don't see how they manage their hairs and faces even their bodies as hunters...Eir has a bare leg out you know...cause hunters need to not ignore their mate calls..like come on give it a rest already -_iii.