Advice from a long time WvW veteran.

Lightsbane.9012 · August 8, 2019

you (had) one of the most unique game modes on the mmorpg market for five years running. One of the most dedicated communities that built their own story with their own accomplishments and heroism in battle. Yet you do not seem to love WvW like I do, ArenaNet. It disappoints me as a gamer. WvW is still dripping with potential and you leave it in the dust for nonsensical beyond easy pve content. I, like probably many others, like a challenge with my video games, otherwise there is no fun in it. Fighting AI is not a challenge. Fighting mobs that do not move are not a challenge, no matter how or where you fight them. Once you know their mechanics, you win. You cannot do this with players, especially a large group of organized players. Why do you neglect WvW? Do you not realize how big the WvW playerbase is? Do you not realize how many people play your game JUST for WvW?

Let's talk about the maps. Desert borderland is an experiment that should've been a jungle map instead. I mean, thieves hiding in bushes, rangers sniping from tree tops, not to mention edge of the mists which would've been much better off as the fourth map instead of a wait for queue to pop zone. You have so much space to work with in what we, the players of your game, can see alone. The mass of land/misted out areas surrounding eternal battlegrounds. The mass of water in the middle of nearly all of it, it just feels like you've run out of passion for what caused me to fall in love with your game. Why don't you put any focus into this game mode? Why? As a fellow artist I can't imagine why you don't put more work and love into this. Let me tell you, If i am not sketching, painting, lifting, or doing my other day to days, I am here, at home, gaming. What you had with Wvw was something i always wanted, the open world pvp, the objective based combat, the free flowing movement of an army at battle, and how skill and discipline will always beat a meta, every single day. Yet the game mode has stagnated beyond the point of no return, I believe. Unless something drastic happens, unless you have some massive map in the works for a new expansion, I don't know how much longer it has. and it pains me to say that, it really does. I love this game, I love the classes, and at this point my advice to you is to watch the Wvw forum like it's your duty. Take note of what the players are saying, and do things based off of that within reason. You give everything to the pve players as if they do not already have it, and give us nothing. When does wvw get the same respect as living story?

Blockhead Magee.3092 · August 8, 2019

Why? Money. Simply money. PVE makes it, WvW didn't and doesn't. Until they figure out how to monetize it better, we won't get bubkus.

Turkeyspit.3965 · August 8, 2019

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:Why? Money. Simply money. PVE makes it, WvW didn't and doesn't. Until they figure out how to monetize it better, we won't get bubkus.

This, but also, by it's very nature, pvp modes don't need as much new content injected to it as does PvE. You see this even in subscription based MMOs like WoW. Do you think their PvP game modes get anywhere near a fraction of the content added to their game mode that PvE does? But it doesn't have to, because the content of pvp is the players you are fighting, not as much the map you are on.

While that's no excuse for the lack of content added to both pvp modes; WoW still managed to add many maps to arena and battlegrounds, as well as adding other open world pvp events over the year despite PvE being their primary content, but you will never see the same amount of content added to WvW/PvP as LW because it's not necessary.

Lightsbane.9012 · August 8, 2019

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:
@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:Why? Money. Simply money. PVE makes it, WvW didn't and doesn't. Until they figure out how to monetize it better, we won't get bubkus.

This, but also, by it's very nature, pvp modes don't need as much new content injected to it as does PvE. You see this even in subscription based MMOs like WoW. Do you think their PvP game modes get anywhere near a fraction of the content added to their game mode that PvE does? But it doesn't have to, because the content of pvp is the players you are fighting, not as much the map you are on.

While that's no excuse for the lack of content added to both pvp modes; WoW still managed to add many maps to arena and battlegrounds, as well as adding other open world pvp events over the year despite PvE being their primary content, but you will never see the same amount of content added to WvW/PvP as LW because it's not necessary.

i disagree that wvw/pvp need less content. They are constant chaos. Constant chaos needs new things that often. And you have no idea how many players it might draw in to the game mode if they added something even resembling a living story for pvp or wvw.

XenesisII.1540 · August 8, 2019

It was stated a while ago that they're not working on new maps. I would say a combination of them not wanting to give wvw resources to create new content, and players not liking what they got with the previous two maps. A new map every couple years doesn't hurt to spruce up the section, even just doing a refresher on the old maps would help, although not if they were going to give it the desert pve treatment which went overboard in annoyances. And at this point if there were enough maps they could do proper rotations and even increase or decrease the use of maps in a matchup according to server populations, like these days it feels like they could just do with three maps in a matchup, but it's not really possible unless ebg is the one they remove.

Overall I feel the same way about wvw, I think it's been a huge wasted opportunity to develop something more unique to the mmo space, since there isn't a lot of other games that have it, and the ones that did either got old, died, or are in development hell. But anet choose to make living story and skins their main content and revenue stream as they need to keep their largest audience of pve players happy, there have been of course many suggestions to monetize wvw, not that I think wvw players would support much these days, only so much third wheel treatment players will take before moving on, and many already have.

I wouldn't expect much for wvw in the future.

Paradoxoglanis.1904 · August 8, 2019

The only half decent wvw mmo of its kind, amazing combat system, huge potential for a strong competitive game with no competition from other game studios, and the entire game is focused around solo story based pve. Yes wvw has a small but relatively stable population now, but most gw2 players never play wvw or pvp. The game had its chance and they blew it.

People claim that WvW cant make money, yet somehow other competitive games can make ridiculous amounts, anet just never added anything to wvw that could bring in revenue. For starters, the game is largely based around guild vs guild combat, whether its a guild leading a pug group around taking keeps, or a gvg focused fight guild. Add custom guild camp, tower, keep, siege skins to the gem store. Customizable guild cosmetic gear, unique guild finishers, pick nearly anything that lets guilds stand out from others and people will pay time and money for that. Give guilds/servers a reason to win the weekly matchup and people will become more competitive and feel a sense of pride for the group they represent. Its ridiculous to think that wvw couldnt be more than a niche gamemode when so many ideas for content have never been attempted.

zinkz.7045 · August 8, 2019

@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:The only half decent wvw mmo of its kind, amazing combat system, huge potential for a strong competitive game with no competition from other game studios, and the entire game is focused around solo story based pve. Yes wvw has a small but relatively stable population now, but most gw2 players never play wvw or pvp. The game had its chance and they blew it.
People claim that WvW cant make money, yet somehow other competitive games can make ridiculous amounts, anet just never added anything to wvw that could bring in revenue. For starters, the game is largely based around guild vs guild combat, whether its a guild leading a pug group around taking keeps, or a gvg focused fight guild. Add custom guild camp, tower, keep, siege skins to the gem store. Customizable guild cosmetic gear, unique guild finishers, pick nearly anything that lets guilds stand out from others and people will pay time and money for that. Give guilds/servers a reason to win the weekly matchup and people will become more competitive and feel a sense of pride for the group they represent. Its ridiculous to think that wvw couldnt be more than a niche gamemode when so many ideas for content have never been attempted.

They could monetize it better, but that is all. As a competitive game mode it is a joke just like every other attempt at RvR, which ultimately is why all these types of games die off after a couple of years.

Good, fun PvP requires competition, WvW lacks the mechanisms to provide that in every aspect.

When it comes to "winning" the matchup (PPT) no one sane cares or has ever cared, because a 24/7 game mode, where the teams are different sizes, with different coverage and "gameplay" that is more boring than PvE (PvDoor, avoid fights, jump maps, etc) makes "winning" meaningless and the "gameplay" dull.

Same thing for fights, a guy roaming who has played 10k hours jumping on a guy in a zerg build or a guy who has played 100 hours or a guy who is 70 years old, etc is dull trash tier PvP, same for large scale, no good tryharding with whatever meta cheese, all on TS/Discord and having nothing to fight, because every dumb tryhard is on two servers, so other comms just log off after a couple of fights.

RvR is a flawed game mode, that basically only appeals to bads who are fine with trash tier "PvP" and trash tier gameplay, which is why it is dead in the handful of games that even bother to try it (and they only try because of rose tinted DAoC spectacles some devs are wearing).

They would have been better off going with battlegrounds, that way casual players could face casual players, guilds could face guilds (and actually have some sort of competitive ladder / league) and the quality of PvP would be better and more fun plus it would have been way easier to add content to and keep things fresh.

XenesisII.1540 · August 8, 2019

Dunno how you can state that when they had spvp to do exactly all that and still failed.

Safandula.8723 · August 8, 2019

i think noone except for Ben cares

Paradoxoglanis.1904 · August 8, 2019

@zinkz.7045 said:
@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:The only half decent wvw mmo of its kind, amazing combat system, huge potential for a strong competitive game with no competition from other game studios, and the entire game is focused around solo story based pve. Yes wvw has a small but relatively stable population now, but most gw2 players never play wvw or pvp. The game had its chance and they blew it.
People claim that WvW cant make money, yet somehow other competitive games can make ridiculous amounts, anet just never added anything to wvw that could bring in revenue. For starters, the game is largely based around guild vs guild combat, whether its a guild leading a pug group around taking keeps, or a gvg focused fight guild. Add custom guild camp, tower, keep, siege skins to the gem store. Customizable guild cosmetic gear, unique guild finishers, pick nearly anything that lets guilds stand out from others and people will pay time and money for that. Give guilds/servers a reason to win the weekly matchup and people will become more competitive and feel a sense of pride for the group they represent. Its ridiculous to think that wvw couldnt be more than a niche gamemode when so many ideas for content have never been attempted.

They could monetize it better, but that is all. As a competitive game mode it is a joke just like every other attempt at RvR, which ultimately is why all these types of games die off after a couple of years.

Good, fun PvP requires competition, WvW lacks the mechanisms to provide that in every aspect.

When it comes to "winning" the matchup (PPT) no one sane cares or has ever cared, because a 24/7 game mode, where the teams are different sizes, with different coverage and "gameplay" that is more boring than PvE (PvDoor, avoid fights, jump maps, etc) makes "winning" meaningless and the "gameplay" dull.

Same thing for fights, a guy roaming who has played 10k hours jumping on a guy in a zerg build or a guy who has played 100 hours or a guy who is 70 years old, etc is dull trash tier PvP, same for large scale, no good tryharding with whatever meta cheese, all on TS/Discord and having nothing to fight, because every dumb tryhard is on two servers, so other comms just log off after a couple of fights.

RvR is a flawed game mode, that basically only appeals to bads who are fine with trash tier "PvP" and trash tier gameplay, which is why it is dead in the handful of games that even bother to try it (and they only try because of rose tinted DAoC spectacles some devs are wearing).

They would have been better off going with battlegrounds, that way casual players could face casual players, guilds could face guilds (and actually have some sort of competitive ladder / league) and the quality of PvP would be better and more fun plus it would have been way easier to add content to and keep things fresh.

Yes i would agree the gamemode is fundamentally flawed, but to think that gw2 WvW couldnt have been improved is silly which was my whole point.

juno.1840 · August 8, 2019

@Lightsbane.9012 said:I love this game, I love the classes, and at this point my advice to you is to watch the Wvw forum like it's your duty. Take note of what the players are saying, and do things based off of that within reason.

At least half the ideas I see in the forums are garbage -- so that's the last thing I want ANet developers to do.

I'm all for new content, but not designed by players that don't understand beans about software development, and who don't have a good vision of the complexity of the game architecture.

zinkz.7045 · August 8, 2019

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:The only half decent wvw mmo of its kind, amazing combat system, huge potential for a strong competitive game with no competition from other game studios, and the entire game is focused around solo story based pve. Yes wvw has a small but relatively stable population now, but most gw2 players never play wvw or pvp. The game had its chance and they blew it.
People claim that WvW cant make money, yet somehow other competitive games can make ridiculous amounts, anet just never added anything to wvw that could bring in revenue. For starters, the game is largely based around guild vs guild combat, whether its a guild leading a pug group around taking keeps, or a gvg focused fight guild. Add custom guild camp, tower, keep, siege skins to the gem store. Customizable guild cosmetic gear, unique guild finishers, pick nearly anything that lets guilds stand out from others and people will pay time and money for that. Give guilds/servers a reason to win the weekly matchup and people will become more competitive and feel a sense of pride for the group they represent. Its ridiculous to think that wvw couldnt be more than a niche gamemode when so many ideas for content have never been attempted.

They could monetize it better, but that is all. As a competitive game mode it is a joke just like every other attempt at RvR, which ultimately is why all these types of games die off after a couple of years.

Good, fun PvP requires competition, WvW lacks the mechanisms to provide that in every aspect.

When it comes to "winning" the matchup (PPT) no one sane cares or has ever cared, because a 24/7 game mode, where the teams are different sizes, with different coverage and "gameplay" that is more boring than PvE (PvDoor, avoid fights, jump maps, etc) makes "winning" meaningless and the "gameplay" dull.

Same thing for fights, a guy roaming who has played 10k hours jumping on a guy in a zerg build or a guy who has played 100 hours or a guy who is 70 years old, etc is dull trash tier PvP, same for large scale, no good tryharding with whatever meta cheese, all on TS/Discord and having nothing to fight, because every dumb tryhard is on two servers, so other comms just log off after a couple of fights.

RvR is a flawed game mode, that basically only appeals to bads who are fine with trash tier "PvP" and trash tier gameplay, which is why it is dead in the handful of games that even bother to try it (and they only try because of rose tinted DAoC spectacles some devs are wearing).

They would have been better off going with battlegrounds, that way casual players could face casual players, guilds could face guilds (and actually have some sort of competitive ladder / league) and the quality of PvP would be better and more fun plus it would have been way easier to add content to and keep things fresh.

Yes i would agree the gamemode is fundamentally flawed, but to think that gw2 WvW couldnt have been improved is silly which was my whole point.

The only things that are "silly" are the confused notion that a game mode that is fundamentally flawed on a competitive basis has "huge potential for a strong competitive game". Or that minor improvements will make any meaningful difference when they will be nothing more than band-aids when those fundamental flaws still exist.

Eremes Guile.1480 · August 8, 2019

you could always have a go at fortnite, and try win 3 million dollars /shrug

Paradoxoglanis.1904 · August 9, 2019

@zinkz.7045 said:
@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
@zinkz.7045 said:
@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:The only half decent wvw mmo of its kind, amazing combat system, huge potential for a strong competitive game with no competition from other game studios, and the entire game is focused around solo story based pve. Yes wvw has a small but relatively stable population now, but most gw2 players never play wvw or pvp. The game had its chance and they blew it.
People claim that WvW cant make money, yet somehow other competitive games can make ridiculous amounts, anet just never added anything to wvw that could bring in revenue. For starters, the game is largely based around guild vs guild combat, whether its a guild leading a pug group around taking keeps, or a gvg focused fight guild. Add custom guild camp, tower, keep, siege skins to the gem store. Customizable guild cosmetic gear, unique guild finishers, pick nearly anything that lets guilds stand out from others and people will pay time and money for that. Give guilds/servers a reason to win the weekly matchup and people will become more competitive and feel a sense of pride for the group they represent. Its ridiculous to think that wvw couldnt be more than a niche gamemode when so many ideas for content have never been attempted.