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A week on after "changes" thief sucks in wvw


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Thief the assassin class is fine but bit useless in combat? Lol the class is the worst 1v1 class while being the most glassy. Right now it's only a viable runner to decap nodes. In wvw their a joke beyond meme builds. I love seeing on my reaper lol they either run or die in seconds, must be fun for em. They are far from fine.

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I dont know about the thf nerfs as i never played one. all i know is they are boring as fuck to fight in wvw. every thf i fight 100% goes like this .... pew pew pew *i approach, -thf vanishes and appears at random location a few second later , pew pew pew, and so on. and if i managed to hit it at all. hes back at full health , fight starts over again thanks to their unlimted reset button. so they are broing af to fight because its always the same disappearing gun you down crap

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@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Thief I literally a garbage class now, good job arenanet. DD is over all worse now at what it did.adding like 2% more sustain to a class that has horrible sustain will not make it a viable brawler. The range nerf hit d/p hard, a already weak build. DE stealth was nerfed for what? So u could give scrapper 15 sec of it at push of button(now 12) and recently mesmers stealth. While DE the stealth sniperclass had to spend 80% of its playtime leaping through smoke fields lmao like seriously? Here comes another ban for saying somthing negative about the company lmao ridiculous.

Friend, if you claim that thief is garbage, especially in wvw, I would suspect your honesty. Thief, although not even close to what it was before HoT, is not in "that" bad state. With the recent preparations introduction, it quickly became a valuable asset for havoc squads and for some zergs. Paired with a mesmer, it is the best possible tower flipper in my opinion. And you can easily one shot many professions. About DD, i feel it works ok-ish but I have been playing dd with my thief for 4 years and never liked another weapon set (except for D/P craze with daredevil). So I am biased about that.

Problem is that anet balance team cannot decide what to do with thief (and mesmer). Will it be an assassin? A duelist? A brawler? A mobility class? Stealth class? So on. I am gravely pessimistic about thief and mesmer professions' future.

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I really don't get it. I don't play thief, of course, but looking at it from the outside, I'd say they are still highly dangerous. You don't see them coming, you can't grab hold of them (where is that teleport, that everyone seems to have for my spellbreaker?), some pewpew you from distance, others jump in, dish out damage, jump out again. When you finally think you can grab hold of them, they disappear. Some elite spec even disappears right after being revealed.The only time I am pretty safe from them is, if I'm on my warclaw and heading toward a safe objective. And even then: If it's more than one person ganking me, I am far from safe.

No, I don't feel sorry for you thieves out there. I might be, one day, but until reveals are a lot more common, that's not gonna happen.

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Still fight plenty of good thieves in wvw, and on all 3 specs, unlike say mesmer which now have no choice but mirage and barely even see mesmers around now, everyone is on their warrior thief eng ranger, even revs, for roaming and small groups.

If you're trying to zerg or not picking the right squishy targets as a thief I dunno what to tell you.

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@Nickguy.5467 said:I dont know about the thf nerfs as i never played one. all i know is they are boring as kitten to fight in wvw. every thf i fight 100% goes like this .... pew pew pew *i approach, -thf vanishes and appears at random location a few second later , pew pew pew, and so on. and if i managed to hit it at all. hes back at full health , fight starts over again thanks to their unlimted reset button. so they are broing af to fight because its always the same disappearing gun you down kitten

That's your problem. U don't play 1 and are clueless about the class and its mechanics and will always be boring.

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@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:My hate for stealth remains as strong today as it was when GW2 was released. Thief has always been the most hated user of that hated skill. I cheer every nerf and continue to hunt and kill thieves whenever they rear their low down, dirty, evil face. Manta is: All thieves must die! Nerf them to the ground and eliminate the class.

Aside from that, yeah, thief took a big hit and aren't as much of a threat as they used to be.

The problem isn't stealth. Stealth as a mechanic is fine. The problem is there should be a tradeoff for being able to stealth, i.e you move slower (you are trying to be sneaky). Also, once in combat, it should prevent being able to restealth (I can see deadeye being the exception to this, but with a single restealth, not an ammo skill). Stealth should not be a timed thing, it should just be a thing (turn on, turn off - no timer). Players should also be able to see a stealthed player if they walk through them (very small radius around them). There are soo many things Anet could do to fix the problem with the games stealth mechanics, but I doubt anything will ever change. In fact, they keep adding bonuses for being in stealth, like superspeed, which compounds the problems.

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@Ubi.4136 said:

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:My hate for stealth remains as strong today as it was when GW2 was released. Thief has always been the most hated user of that hated skill. I cheer every nerf and continue to hunt and kill thieves whenever they rear their low down, dirty, evil face. Manta is: All thieves must die! Nerf them to the ground and eliminate the class.

Aside from that, yeah, thief took a big hit and aren't as much of a threat as they used to be.

The problem isn't stealth. Stealth as a mechanic is fine. The problem is there should be a tradeoff for being able to stealth, i.e you move slower (you are trying to be sneaky). Also, once in combat, it should prevent being able to restealth (I can see deadeye being the exception to this, but with a single restealth, not an ammo skill). Stealth should not be a timed thing, it should just be a thing (turn on, turn off - no timer). Players should also be able to see a stealthed player if they walk through them (very small radius around them). There are soo many things Anet could do to fix the problem with the games stealth mechanics, but I doubt anything will ever change. In fact, they keep adding bonuses for being in stealth, like superspeed, which compounds the problems.

The tradeoff is that we have no access to stability, and extremely limited access to block (one skill, daredevil only) and protection (one trait, DE only). One hit against a Thief chunks 1/3 of their hp most of the time. I would gladly accept your proposals for the fair trade of Thief buffs that comes with them. The question is would you like fighting Thieves better when they have 15k base hp, access to perma protection and good stability and blocks?

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@Faaris.8013 said:

@"ruller.2084" said:Okay so you need to understand that literally anything works fine when you're a zerling, just because its not on metabattle or in your worlds build spreadsheet doesnt make it bad. Literally anything that does damage will work with a zerg.

This is just my way of rationalising why I play a class that sucks compared to all other classes. Truth is, why should anyone pick thief for anything except stealth ganking? I find no rational reasons to do that, I'm just kind of emotionally connected to the class.

That's the answer every thief player would ever give...."stealth ganking", until recently it could be done with impunity and thief players want that to return to the dismay of the rest of the community.

"Fucked up ....hmm np though" infliltrator's return and all is fine while the enemy spent important CD to avoid being 2 shotted, a 1200 range get of jail on demand

"Time to disapppear"...np shortbow 5 and cya or stealth camping

The ability to start and ending fights at will with impunity..is what will always attract nerfs unless that get fixed at design level

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@"LaFurion.3167" said:Tried to play my thief I really did. It was my main for a while. Since the change to swipe I have given up on dagger main hand.

I feel like in wvw thief is in a terrible spot. Can't zerg and for "roaming" you don't have enough damage to even do half a warclaws hp bar to dismount them. And when you do dismount people you have no energy and probably used shadow step or steal just to stick to and take mount down. Plus you are down all your initiative.

The only dagger thief builds I see are full glass back stab thieves. You cannot fight somebody as a daredevil or even core with dagger mainhand and win since you are at a serious serious disadvantage. And the amount of passives in the game warrior and ranger auto invuln namely, coupled with INSANE damage from aoe if you are near means the only way for a thief to "win" is to just one shot. If you fail this you lose.

When was the last time you had a -fight- with a thief? Like a proper fight. Supposed to be assassin class that excell in duels but we are among the weakest hitting and squishiest classes...

Gonna just go full dire renegade or warrior who's bulls charge crits for 9k, or move my gear to ranger and laugh at every thief I come across as 1/3rd of rapid fire kills them with sic me.

Also can dagger thief even get scrapper or holo below 90% hp without dying? I haven't seen it.

Thief is the weakest and most redundand class in gw2. Glass thieves is the only thing you can play and then you are OP, Otherwise you don't do anythiong.

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This is thieves, we're the only ones running glassy to get our stealth one shot kills, only 13k hp poor us, meanwhile in wvw they're running around with 12 boons tanky evading everything, porting all over and still getting kills. If that doesn't describe you then maybe it's, as you would tell other classes, a learn to play issue.

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Lol, thread necro much.

Thief has some stuff that still works, mainly gank builds. The thing I'd ask non thief players to think about is why do you not see tank thieves, healing thieves, etc?

They're simply not viable, that's why. We have one niche; high damage with high mobility or stealth in order to +1 or gank, and in order to achieve that damage, we have to be glass (yes, marauder is still glass when you start with 12k health, have no blocks or protection outside of one skill/trait each that can't be taken together, and when every class can pull off 20k combos should they wish).

The only other niche we used to have was condi, but with the amount of cleanse on some classes these days plus antitoxin rune and cleansing sigil that's now an exercise in futility. So when our niche gets nerfed either directly or indirectly, it disproportionately affects the class as there is no effective way to play thief other than than that one niche. Other classes can swap roles easily, we can't.

So yeah, thief does still do what it does better than most. We're just seeing other classes get damage and mobility comparable to thief on top of their usual advantages and wondering what the trade-off is supposed to be, and if there isn't one, why are thieves forced into a niche as a trade-off for what we do? As Turk said, a lot of us would happily give up the stealth, but how would you feel if we had higher health plus access to blocks and protection to compensate?

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Actually it's not the fact that Thieves can't roam anymore, it's the fact Mounts essentially killed any class which used to capitalize on mobility advantage against other roamers.

Thieves used to be one of the few classes which had unparalleled catching and escaping power, along with Soulbeast and Warrior.

The introduction of Mounts made it so that defenders can reach yu quicker, Defenders are immune to yur opening burst (which is extremely important to Thief) and Defenders can basically stay on pace or outpace yu with Mounts.

Adding onto the fact Thieves have weak presence in Zerg fights, Thieves are being pushed to either Deadeyes, or just stop roaming altogether.

Yu still see DDs and Cores here and there, but they are usually running around in Havocs or Pug zergs, and are there to catch Zerg tails, Scout and tap, and use Stealth to drop Portal/ use Siege disablers.

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@XenesisII.1540 said:This is thieves, we're the only ones running glassy to get our stealth one shot kills, only 13k hp poor us, meanwhile in wvw they're running around with 12 boons tanky evading everything, porting all over and still getting kills. If that doesn't describe you then maybe it's, as you would tell other classes, a learn to play issue.

My stat damage isn't great but I get bonus damage for taking those boons and it's less of theirs I have to chew through. They can be taken right back and I'll probably have to bail before I get nuked by something and I could die running if they have any reach.

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Funny thing, I saw an entirerly new type of thief today: DE rifle condi.

Yeah you read that right, rifle and condi. Seemed completely immortal as a roamer, like 90% uptime on stealth, always popped condis at range that locked you down, then vanished again. Sure you could knock 20-40% of hp off when you saw him, then he just stealthed and came back with 100% hp, every time. Half the time spent "fighting" him you suddenly just had condis on you that he applied while in stealth.

TL;DR the cheese is still alive and well, situation normal.

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@"Vavume.8065" said:… Meanwhile, my build got stronger...

i agree

not too long ago i was hit +1 shotted with Thief death judgement https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment for 24k than quickly logged out

-Nothing changed for the better. Nothing new to complain about really. Logging in to games which promotes healthy competitive gameplay. See you guys there. have a nice day :)-https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/5756/deaths-judgment/p1

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@"Dawdler.8521" said:Funny thing, I saw an entirerly new type of thief today: DE rifle condi.

Yeah you read that right, rifle and condi. Seemed completely immortal as a roamer, like 90% uptime on stealth, always popped condis at range that locked you down, then vanished again. Sure you could knock 20-40% of hp off when you saw him, then he just stealthed and came back with 100% hp, every time. Half the time spent "fighting" him you suddenly just had condis on you that he applied while in stealth.

TL;DR the cheese is still alive and well, situation normal.

This has actually existed since pof came about, people only flocked back to it after changes to deadly arts and shadow arts made more lucrative.

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@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Lol, thread necro much.

Thief has some stuff that still works, mainly gank builds. The thing I'd ask non thief players to think about is why do you not see tank thieves, healing thieves, etc?

They're simply not viable, that's why. We have one niche; high damage with high mobility or stealth in order to +1 or gank, and in order to achieve that damage, we have to be glass (yes, marauder is still glass when you start with 12k health, have no blocks or protection outside of one skill/trait each that can't be taken together, and when every class can pull off 20k combos should they wish).

The only other niche we used to have was condi, but with the amount of cleanse on some classes these days plus antitoxin rune and cleansing sigil that's now an exercise in futility. So when our niche gets nerfed either directly or indirectly, it disproportionately affects the class as there is no effective way to play thief other than than that one niche. Other classes can swap roles easily, we can't.

So yeah, thief does still do what it does better than most. We're just seeing other classes get damage and mobility comparable to thief on top of their usual advantages and wondering what the trade-off is supposed to be, and if there isn't one, why are thieves forced into a niche as a trade-off for what we do? As Turk said, a lot of us would happily give up the stealth, but how would you feel if we had higher health plus access to blocks and protection to compensate?

It would be paradise...imagine a world where you as thief can't stealth reset when you fuck up....and people can chase you down now..no more stealth and run away...

PLEASE PLEASE anet remove stealth from thieves and give them whatever they wish....just remove the bloody stealth uptime...I wonder how many would still play thief without stealth

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@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Funny thing, I saw an entirerly new type of thief today: DE rifle condi.

Yeah you read that right, rifle and condi. Seemed completely immortal as a roamer, like 90% uptime on stealth, always popped condis at range that locked you down, then vanished again. Sure you could knock 20-40% of hp off when you saw him, then he just stealthed and came back with 100% hp, every time. Half the time spent "fighting" him you suddenly just had condis on you that he applied while in stealth.

TL;DR the cheese is still alive and well, situation normal.

This has actually existed since pof came about, people only flocked back to it after changes to deadly arts and shadow arts made more lucrative.US servers or something?

I've literally never seen such build on any EU tier, not even when when PoF was fresh and everyone was running DE - they where all power rifle builds. Any condi build was running other weaponry, mostly of the dump-6+-condis-in-one-trap-burst type. This thief only used the rifle and barely anything else. I suspect he even used double rifle, lol.

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Let me introduce you to online combat player mentality. People hate range, because being kited makes them feel annoyed and helpless. Instead of adapting, as they hate disrupting their min maxing builds, thry complain.

People hate assassins. They feel powerless against them. They do not care how well the assassin prepared, what is his skill level and build etc. They hust complain.

Dear Anet devs, may they be forced to play their own game, found a quick solution. Projectile hate for ranged (except rev but class is meh now so only thing it has is CoR dmg) and making thief a complete joke for assassinations.

Is thief powerful? Hell yes. I feel safe when I play my thief. Is thief annoying? Hell yes. I can dodge and shadowstep/inf arrow all day and annoy the hell out of anyone except thieves. But does thief satisfy its player base? Dont think so. A class that used to be really good at assassination became a hyperactive acrobat with great dance moves.But it is not limited to thief sadly. Many professions lost their core archetype after HoT.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Funny thing, I saw an entirerly new type of thief today: DE rifle condi.

Yeah you read that right, rifle and condi. Seemed completely immortal as a roamer, like 90% uptime on stealth, always popped condis at range that locked you down, then vanished again. Sure you could knock 20-40% of hp off when you saw him, then he just stealthed and came back with 100% hp, every time. Half the time spent "fighting" him you suddenly just had condis on you that he applied while in stealth.

TL;DR the cheese is still alive and well, situation normal.

This has actually existed since pof came about, people only flocked back to it after changes to deadly arts and shadow arts made more lucrative.US servers or something?

I've literally never seen such build on any EU tier, not even when when PoF was fresh and everyone was running DE - they where all power rifle builds. Any condi build was running other weaponry, mostly of the dump-6+-condis-in-one-trap-burst type. This thief only used the rifle and barely anything else. I suspect he even used double rifle, lol.

Yeah it was used both na and eu, but of course it was not as prevalent as stealth de. It had a resurgence when World of enders made a vid on it, then it went away, and made one more return with a long void, and now it's back again. It wasn't used much because it was niche immob spam and poison etc. When pof came out I made condi and hybrid variants but I prefer hybrid one for rifle. Condi can still work as you are offloading most of it not from the rifle itself but from marked/stolen skill/util

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