The loss of IP seems to be the tradeoff for alacrity. Maybe we can brainstorm fairer ones instead?

[Daniel Handler.4816]

Scrapper had an F skill replaced and a minor trait given a buff/nerf. And I would argue the balance team took the same approach with distortion and alacrity. Our version of losing vitality to gain barrier is losing IP to keep the benefit of alacrity. However, since raids are the only game mode with long/predictable fights, all the tradeoff does is devalue Chrono in the rest of the game.

My idea would be to reduce the max number of illusions and restore illusionary persona. But I am sure there are better ones. Any other ideas?

[Hiraga Taichiru.1580]

Well, kent... you and I know that the loss of IP means less condi cleanse (also mean the fail for using support) since you were even better than me in chrono support.lets revise this for a bit OK?they made clone effects when shatter (alacrity and quickness) added to your boons after the clone is shattered, With IP was OK, since you atleast get alacrity and quickness when you shatter yourself. but now with IP nerf, you wont be able to get alacrity when you fight AoE characters in which they will destroy clones before they deal damage or grant boons. i highly recommend to take the IP nerf back. if not then i suggest the whole chronomancer class get reworked. the Weapon in which Chronomancer gain access too is a shield, and by definition shield is a weapons/armor to defend with, and i don't see any buff/stats increasing about vitality or toughness in the traits for that. In fact as you can see, in the previous updates, chrono was nerfed too many times in which they destroyed chrono support. however if look into the traits of the chrono all of it, you will end up seeing this. (CHRONO: can only support or inlflict high dmg... meaning no conid dmg).they really did remove the most of the support chrono and increased the usability of the dmg chrono, however by removing IP they completely erased Support chrono and most of dmg chrono to buff condi chrono as you might have tested... maybe with F2, however its not that great and mirage do much better job than this. Which leads us to chrono Utility skills, what is it lacking ? to be frank, these skills are the most worthless skills ever in GW2, in fact chrono was fine with shatter, since it granted boons and condi cleanse almost every 5-10 secs, however with the removal of IP, it had me questioned the utility skills of chrono and had me thinking (Worthless) , i mean why would anyone want to stand static in PvP fight or WvW, everyone will move , however in PVE its fine since NPC does not move too much thus players do not then thats OK. whats more , Assuming we all accepted that to stand still in a fight to get the boon, but then don't u think 5 targets to get the boon is way too low, don't you think if you are in a zerg and then someone put this well and lets say 20 people out of 50 stood there to get the buff, and 5 people of them gets it while 15 doesn't ? is this fair ? also the same goes for the healing skill (its the most EPIC fail skill in GW2 i have ever seen, where even scourge can make you fear and get out of the well when you can't cleanse nor do nothing) just wasted healing skills and condi cleanse for no reason.Finally let me say that ANET had me thinking, if they want to get rid of Support chrono then why would they put in the traits of the CHRONOMANCER a healing effect when using worthless skills ?, this trait does not even reduce the cd for the wells, what i believe that is the alacrity and the buff of the alacrity in the chrono traits should be mandatory in which every chrono should have by default. I again say this, E-spec should be fully reworked

[Daniel Handler.4816]

@Pyroatheist.9031 I'm not the best at math. What would the Mind Wrack numbers you calculated be if you factored in alacrity? If its still far behind I think restoringIP but having a two clone limit would be a good solution. But you would know better than I if that would mess up pve.

[Lagosta.9683]

That's not so linear as to take off something to give something.Take thieves for example, they lost range on steal and got unblockable on steal and 3 better dodges instead.Let's face it ANet deleted IP for the sake of deleting IP. Losing distortion is already more than sufficient as a trade-off considering chrono has weak survival (pvp pov).

[praqtos.9035]

Alacrity...as trade off? what.................................. ?

@Lagosta.9683 said:That's not so linear as to take off something to give something.Take thieves for example, they lost range on steal and got unblockable on steal and 3 better dodges instead.Let's face it ANet deleted IP for the sake of deleting IPPretty much this.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

@Lagosta.9683 said:That's not so linear as to take off something to give something.Take thieves for example, they lost range on steal and got unblockable on steal and 3 better dodges instead.Let's face it ANet deleted IP for the sake of deleting IP. Losing distortion is already more than sufficient as a trade-off considering chrono has weak survival (pvp pov).

Its not about being linear. Mirage also gains two things for one. Its about equivalent impact.

Chrono only has weak survival because we lost IP. If we kept it, along with shield and reduced cooldowns on defensive abilities, how much of a tradeoff would that be? Especially given we gained CS in exchange.

This is why I'm suggesting we regain IP but keep the new shatters and their 3 clone limit.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

@praqtos.9035 said:Alacrity...as trade off? what.................................. ?Why would they just give us reduced cooldowns on all of our abilities?

[Levetty.1279]

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:Alacrity...as trade off? what.................................. ?Why would they just give us reduced cooldowns on all of our abilities?

Because core Mesmer cooldowns are too high on almost everything. Chrono isn't much better in that regard.

[Tayga.3192]

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Why would they just give us reduced cooldowns on all of our abilities?

I would kind of agree if alacrity was still a special effect which makes skills recharge 66% or 50% faster while being unique to Chronomancer.Other than that, no, current alacrity is not equal to the loss of distortion.

About IP, it should be in all mesmers no matter how op that spec becomes.

[praqtos.9035]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Why would they just give us reduced cooldowns on all of our abilities?

I would kind of agree if alacrity was still a special effect which makes skills recharge 66% or 50% faster while being unique to Chronomancer.Other than that, no, current alacrity is not equal to the loss of distortion.Daniel is clueless as hell, he pretend that alacrity on shatter is worth loss of IP.... much...hilarious.Chill 1s is the same as 3s of alacrity, wow, much OP ! I can find tons of traits given by elite specs are busted as hell and push the spec way ahead in terms of strenght, alacrity shatters are nowhere near

[Curunen.8729]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Why would they just give us reduced cooldowns on all of our abilities?

I would kind of agree if alacrity was still a special effect which makes skills recharge 66% or 50% faster while being unique to Chronomancer.Other than that, no, current alacrity is not equal to the loss of distortion.

About IP, it should be in all mesmers no matter how op that spec becomes.

I do agree here that it would make sense if alacrity had remained an effect like mirage cloak is, and not changed to a boon that other classes also have, or can or stripped/corrupted etc - then yeah as a unique benefit to Chrono and relevant for having a tradeoff.

Edit - removed because I never want what I joked about to happen. xD

[Xaylin.1860]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Why would they just give us reduced cooldowns on all of our abilities?

I would kind of agree if alacrity was still a special effect which makes skills recharge 66% or 50% faster while being unique to Chronomancer.Other than that, no, current alacrity is not equal to the loss of distortion.

About IP, it should be in all mesmers no matter how op that spec becomes.

This. Even if the loss of IP was a trade-off for Alacrity, why is there Improved Alacrity to begin with?

Not saying it could not be balanced numberwise. Losing IP remains aweful from a gameplay point of view.

[praqtos.9035]

@"Curunen.8729" said:Dude.... Remove your "joke" ideas... I'm dead serious,they will use them and when this happen this wouldnt be fun for anyone, alacrity as a boon was suggested also by some random people... and here we are...

[Curunen.8729]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"Curunen.8729" said:Dude.... Remove your "joke" ideas... I'm dead serious,they will use them and when this happen this wouldnt be fun for anyone, alacrity as a boon was suggested also by some random people... and here we are...

Done. I hope Anet never go down that path. xD

[praqtos.9035]

@Curunen.8729 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:Dude.... Remove your "joke" ideas... I'm dead serious,they will use them and when this happen this wouldnt be fun for anyone, alacrity as a boon was suggested also by some random people... and here we are...

Done. I hope Anet never go down that path. xD

They are masters of implementing horrible ideas and ignoring really good ones. Thats anet for you

[Delofasht.4231]

I think a fair change could be to double down on Alacrity for the Chrono, make the Improved Alacrity trait baseline to the specialization, merged with Flow of Time. They can then make a trait for using CS without a clone and providing some base vitality and toughness, with a bit extra based on concentration (a fully defensive utility oriented trait).

Another option could be to make Illusionary Reversion baseline instead, and use the same idea for a replacement trait as outlined above. The idea of having a reset baseline to Chrono seems logical, as the specialization is all about resets.

Last thought is that they could just make Signet of Illusions actually work with Chrono shatters, with the reset only halving CS recharge instead of fully resetting it. This would make it very usable, and would solve a lot of issues with the specialization.

Last comment on Chrono, the changes they have made shifted the gameplay... it is growing on me, there being no reason to ever go in melee range without IP boost of damage means just fully staying at range and spamming reminder for permanent cripple, and all the alacrity to make Split Second and Time Sink available more often.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Why would they just give us reduced cooldowns on all of our abilities?

I would kind of agree if alacrity was still a special effect which makes skills recharge 66% or 50% faster while being unique to Chronomancer.Other than that, no, current alacrity is not equal to the loss of distortion.Daniel is clueless as hell, he pretend that alacrity on shatter is worth loss of IP.... much...hilarious.Chill 1s is the same as 3s of alacrity, wow, much OP ! I can find tons of traits given by elite specs are busted as hell and push the spec way ahead in terms of strenght, alacrity shatters are nowhere near

If I thought that why would I be suggesting we get IP back but have a more minor tradeoff like one less illusion?

Alacrity on its own is not equal to losing distortion. But obviously they think Alacrity and CS together is overcompensating or we would still have IP.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Why would they just give us reduced cooldowns on all of our abilities?

I would kind of agree if alacrity was still a special effect which makes skills recharge 66% or 50% faster while being unique to Chronomancer.Other than that, no, current alacrity is not equal to the loss of distortion.

But CS and alacrity are more than enough. At least to them. Or they would have stopped at that and not taken IP as well.

About IP, it should be in all mesmers no matter how op that spec becomes.

I agree. Hence the suggestion bring back IP but keep new shatters and their three limit.

[Hiraga Taichiru.1580]

Honestly i think most people will agree with me on this..

chrono is shatter based character , by going chrono all mesmer skills gain reduced CD with alacrity buff, however not many thought too much about chrono wells (Which are not good at all). When ANET devs dropped the shatter Dependency overtime for chrono, players are forced to look at chrono utility skills .... i mean come on, even when you were playing support , you only used 2 wells at maximum, and when you play dmg, you most likely to use 1 well which is the elite...If you remember, they buffed the wells to give more boon duration.. but wait!!... why would i think of this as useful if there is a chance of me not getting the boon at all ???. EVEN the caster of the skill can't.============================================ end of the common groundsSo if Anet thinks the IP nerf is good, then i suggest the following :

• Every utility/healing/Elite skill should be reworked to better skills which could be used underwater also generates clone when used.
• shield skill 4 should have 2 phantasms, one for defending and one for attacking
• the buff of alacrity in the traits, should be mandatory and not a selective trait... as chrono this should differentiate this class from support revenent which also provide alacrity
• quickness can be provided by core mesmer , therefore it should not be a feature for the chrono, and thus the shield skill 5 should only grant alacrity for 8 sec as before, and also grants enemies slow condi on top of the jade effect... why ? cuz when this class fight an enemy class with stability, then it should lower the speed of enemy actions increasing the chance of their survivability.
• Buff but not boon, this should be applied on chrono traits which allows the chrono to summon clones when using phantasm skills (stacks up to 5, and recharges every 10 secs by default)
• Time catches Up, is a worthless trait unless it grants the chrono, something like Super speed for less time than clones..? Maybe ??

Of-course these are my suggestions, im sure if all were applied this class would be somehow OP, but im sure some ideas might be applied to chrono in the next update.. that is if the devs see this.

[Levetty.1279]

Thinking about it Renegade has alacrity but doesn't have IP so maybe they are on to something here.

[Zin Dau.1749]

@Levetty.1279 said:Thinking about it Renegade has alacrity but doesn't have IP so maybe they are on to something here.

Really now? stooping to direct class to class comparisons? Ok to make it a fair comparison, Renegade can't swap legends without any clones. Also Renegade damage is reduced by half unless they have clones out. Nah let's make all classes not able to use F abilities if they don't have clones out. Now all classes can be compared to mesmer.

[Hiraga Taichiru.1580]

nah if you want to compare chrono to revenent specs then easy, you play revenent having 50/100 energy as a baseline, but imagine you always start with 0 so it will be 0/100, and use specific skills to generate energy and there are skills which consume energy.Its like ranger but pet die in one hit.its like elementalist but has like 10-20 sec for swapping elements.its like thief but the base line of initiatives are 0/10 or 0/13 and some skills generate initiatives and some uses it.its like engineer class and specs but whenever you go in combat the toolbelt skills start CD before using it.its like gaurdian but can't use any of F1-F3 without triggering the passive of F1... etc

[praqtos.9035]

@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:But obviously they thinkThey are not. The most logical thing to do would be to adapt traits for the new trade off and shave split cd by half minimum,at least for pvp/wvw but what we have got, pathetic nothing, shatter rename and called it a day, enjoy your "new" shatters losers ! :joy:

[Delofasht.4231]

@Hiraga Taichiru.1580 said:nah if you want to compare chrono to revenent specs then easy, you play revenent having 50/100 energy as a baseline, but imagine you always start with 0 so it will be 0/100, and use specific skills to generate energy and there are skills which consume energy.Its like ranger but pet die in one hit.its like elementalist but has like 10-20 sec for swapping elements.its like thief but the base line of initiatives are 0/10 or 0/13 and some skills generate initiatives and some uses it.its like engineer class and specs but whenever you go in combat the toolbelt skills start CD before using it.its like gaurdian but can't use any of F1-F3 without triggering the passive of F1... etc

Pretty much this ^

Let us be honest here, Mesmer is literally the only profession who has a resource for using their skills that can be destroyed by the opponent or environment. Some cannot be used until being in combat (Warrior), but NONE can be destroyed. To add more fuel to the fire, that singular resource (clones), is also the profession defense (deception when acting as a clone _and_distortion) and ALSO the profession's damage (shatters and condition application) and disruption (diversion and ambushes).

All the eggs in one basket... something was bound to break when things got moved. Turns out, that over time, most of the entire profession has broken because of this... with little surprise here, as nothing was ever replaced in the basket, all the profession tools are still linked to the same resource and fail to function without them. I cannot see how they could fix the problem without reworking clones, in the same kind of mentality that they used when approaching phantasms... except those weren't actually as broken as clones as a resource have always been.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

I thought the removal of IP was a slap-dash nerf to delete the GS burst on chrono (by literally halving the dmg on 1 clone F1), the ability to 0 clone CS and dry shattering in CS for instant extra dmg.

Other than that, I don’t think there was any other intent behind removing IP, and for some PvE players, it was very uncalled for (and as appealing as Rewinder seems, it would have been far better to fix condi on core, which was what I thought all these ‘trade offs’ were about (and which it obviously isn’t)).