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Suggestion regarding Mounts and Roaming.


Yasai.3549

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Not sure if this topic has been raised over and over, but I would like to tackle it again.

Mounts are horrible for roaming.

No matter what people try and argue with, this is gonna be a well established fact.Mounts give Defenders too much movement advantage, it is near suicide for a Roamer to even exist in enemy territory, mounted or not.Mounts have given Defenders vastly increased reaction time when one of their camps or towers get contested, essentially tripling their movement speed in their own territory.Mounts have killed professions which are prized on their superior mobility compared to other players, such as Thief (by adding a second healthbar to shield against opening bursts, and by outpacing if not keeping up with Thieves)

Right now the only map which forbids usage of any Expansion mechanics is Edge of the Mists, but I think Anet can very well extend this modifier to other maps.

Alpine : This map is extremely vast and Mounts could be allowed here.EBG : This map should be the only map with all mechanics enabled.Desert : I think Mounts could be disabled here, due to the rocky terrain disagreeing with the Mount's pathing and very steep cliffs which make Mount travel sometimes worse than traversing on foot.

Or maybe we should have a new BL soon, because we don't really need 2 Alpines.(Something like a Cavern BL which runs underneath the Mists, with the map mostly flat with various cave systems, and having limited Gliding and disabled Mounts)

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@"Yasai.3549" said:

Alpine : This map is extremely vast and Mounts could be allowed here.EBG : This map should be the only map with all mechanics enabled.Desert : I think Mounts could be disabled here, due to the rocky terrain disagreeing with the Mount's pathing and very steep cliffs which make Mount travel sometimes worse than traversing on foot.

i do not prefer mounts ( dont like them but i do not hate them either ) < solo / small scale roamer with passion >but when you want to " reduce " mounts you have to change the maps.

EBG = Zero mounts = less lagsAlpine = no mount because it is THE roamer map.Desert: mounts on because its the biggest map and the majority dont play it

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@"Marxx.5021" said:If Anet would care about WvW they would not have added mounts add all. OK roaming was already dead before mounts. But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

I have a mixed feelings toward that. No, I won't say mounts are bad. What mounts do is that they unify the movement speed of a group, that is, your "slow" units can stay within a group.

What I don't like at all is that dismounting is so horribly difficult. In the previous game I played, WvW-style game mode had mounts, but they were very low health and people could be dismounted (and knocked down for second or so) with one attack. Mounts were only to take you to your objective through the landscape.

This (dismount difficulty) of course benefits people who are traveling from spawn point back to group, as they don't need to worry much about possible enemies on the way. It shifts the action more to larger groups and map objectives, as traveling alone is safer for you (no need to wait more people to come to form escort), your entire team can stay together no matter of class's mobility differences and so on.

I understand that it is not possible (or difficult) to scale down mount health, but at the moment they are like armored vehicles in a war zone from where you can relative safely observe your surrounding while it takes you from point A to point B.

Maybe we could get "special" action to dismount enemy player when there is one in suitable range? Maybe we could get some "spike mats" (bit similar to PoF map NPC spike mats) to be thrown to the way to stop the enemies to advance, and to force them to fight instead of reaching their destination with ease? Maybe we could get some roadside bombs that would be only triggered by mounted enemies and not only dismounting them, but do also hit them relatively heavy.

It can also be difficult to decrease the mount speed to give more room for high mobility builds, but I'd really adjust it to fit to the classes.

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I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they still wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.

The point is no one populates EotM.

Why would anyone roam just to Pve, that's just Pve.

I mean thats all i do. My servers never busy enough to attempt taking keeps or towers when im playing so all i -can- do is capture camps, and kill yaks and sentrys.For that, i love my mount, as i can finally flee from fucking mesmers and thiefs on my ele.

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You can adapt in this situation. Although I was really against mounts and thought that it would kill roaming (and it did really hurt, a lot) I adapted to the situation. Mounts did lessen the fights and gankers are still ganking. Before, only 1 person was ganking, now there are at least 2, one to dismount, one to instantly kill you if you are too slow to dismount (stun). Scouting became more important yet harder than it was before.

On the other hand I thought it would widen the build/profession variety in wvw, and it did a little. Although I see the general win button-cheesy builds a lot, I tend to see some experimental builds too. Even I tried many different builds and professions (some worked brilliantly and some made me feel like a vocal punching bag). I am very happy for necros as they can roam now with the help of the warclaw. WET temptests can roam too if the profession balance was not horrible (old time tempest, still bitter about balance).

Sadly it is way past the fix time for this mount-roaming issue. Only thing we can do is adapt now. At least this is my opinion.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

@gebrechen.5643 said:Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.

The point is no one populates EotM.

Why would anyone roam just to Pve, that's just Pve.

Perfect description of our current WvW...

Australian player here and Ive never seen the game so empty since warkitty became a thing.Pretty much most people from my country were roamers due to our time zone but warkitty killed it all off... I can now take keeps and an entire side of EB with 3 or 4 people and not see a single defender and for my time zone, all defenders were roamers converging on pugs taking stuff.... now theyre not around to stop us.

I might see one guy actually... but hes in spawn crying and using emotes to befriend us.

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So like, mounts are kinda bugged, cause like when I hop hop and try to pounce it will like go on cooldown, and then like I can only keep hop hop until it goes off cooldown which is like, super annoying, o, m, g, annnnoying, so like, they should like, I dunno like, fix it, cause I didn't like press it, so like why is it like going on cooldown, it's like better to dismount, but that's like unfair, so like fix it.

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Yesterday I faced a condi mesmer. Both came in mounted, both dismounted, he got a massive condi burst in within the first 10s of the fight and I died from it because I couldnt cleanse it all.

So I respawned, mounted up and returned... He was still there. Now I was much more cautious, ranged and evaded the condi burst. As he failed, he teleported OOC.

So I engaged again, he stealthed and... failed his condi burst again. Then he teleported OOC.

So I engaged again, we danced, he stealthed and... failed his condi burst again. He teleported OOC and mounted up. As I mounted up to pursue, he vanished (tp to spawn presumable).

Buisness as usual with or without mounts.

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I still only roam, still haven't been affected by mounts . . .

@gebrechen.5643 said:Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.I don't think enough ppl care about the score for that to make a difference. Adding pips and participation to EotM would probably do it though . . .@Turk.5460 said:I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they still wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

I continue to maintain that one of the best things the mount has done for roaming is eliminate all the worthless fights against opponents who aren't up for it. The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

@Warkind.6745 said:Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.I still don't understand why this is taking so long. The last we heard about it was that it was basically ready. Then nothing for what seems like ever . . .@Anput.4620 said:

@Marxx.5021 said:But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

Why don't the bads get this?

It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

Sry I'm late, was playing the game . . .

Based on the decisions they have made it seems clear what anet wants for wvw is more large scale combat in more active maps. The mount helps facilitate this. Those of us looking for something else must adapt or move on . . .

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@Gop.8713 said:I still only roam, still haven't been affected by mounts . . .

@gebrechen.5643 said:Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.I don't think enough ppl care about the score for that to make a difference. Adding pips and participation to EotM would probably do it though . . .@Turk.5460 said:I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they
still
wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

I continue to maintain that one of the best things the mount has done for roaming is eliminate all the worthless fights against opponents who aren't up for it. The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

@Warkind.6745 said:Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.I still don't understand why this is taking so long. The last we heard about it was that it was basically ready. Then nothing for what seems like ever . . .@Anput.4620 said:

@"Marxx.5021" said:But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

Why don't the bads get this?

It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

Sry I'm late, was playing the game . . .

Based on the decisions they have made it seems clear what anet wants for wvw is more large scale combat in more active maps. The mount helps facilitate this. Those of us looking for something else must adapt or move on . . .

This is true. Sadly most seem to have taken the "move on" option... and it doesnt help League has introduced a new game mode which is taking the world by storm.Gotta play them Nobles and Knights ?(Its oddly addictive)

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I still only roam, still haven't been affected by mounts . . .

@gebrechen.5643 said:Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.I don't think enough ppl care about the score for that to make a difference. Adding pips and participation to EotM would probably do it though . . .@Turk.5460 said:I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they
still
wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

I continue to maintain that one of the best things the mount has done for roaming is eliminate all the worthless fights against opponents who aren't up for it. The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

@Warkind.6745 said:Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.I still don't understand why this is taking so long. The last we heard about it was that it was basically ready. Then nothing for what seems like ever . . .@Anput.4620 said:

@"Marxx.5021" said:But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

Why don't the bads get this?

It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

Sry I'm late, was playing the game . . .

Based on the decisions they have made it seems clear what anet wants for wvw is more large scale combat in more active maps. The mount helps facilitate this. Those of us looking for something else must adapt or move on . . .

This is true. Sadly most seem to have taken the "move on" option... and it doesnt help League has introduced a new game mode which is taking the world by storm.Gotta play them Nobles and Knights ?(Its oddly addictive)

Come play Smite with me lol.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I still only roam, still haven't been affected by mounts . . .

@gebrechen.5643 said:Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.I don't think enough ppl care about the score for that to make a difference. Adding pips and participation to EotM would probably do it though . . .@Turk.5460 said:I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they
still
wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

I continue to maintain that one of the best things the mount has done for roaming is eliminate all the worthless fights against opponents who aren't up for it. The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

@Warkind.6745 said:Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.I still don't understand why this is taking so long. The last we heard about it was that it was basically ready. Then nothing for what seems like ever . . .@Anput.4620 said:

@"Marxx.5021" said:But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

Why don't the bads get this?

It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

Sry I'm late, was playing the game . . .

Based on the decisions they have made it seems clear what anet wants for wvw is more large scale combat in more active maps. The mount helps facilitate this. Those of us looking for something else must adapt or move on . . .

This is true. Sadly most seem to have taken the "move on" option... and it doesnt help League has introduced a new game mode which is taking the world by storm.Gotta play them Nobles and Knights ?(Its oddly addictive)

Come play Smite with me lol.

I haven't tried that yet lmao I might yet...

Edit: had a look, not my sort of game.

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don't sure what we should care about roaming. ppl who roam is should be(they think so) extra skilled, and should have fail and fails, and fails ..
They think that they a elite, so don't try stole that from roamers. Don't make this candy something another thing.

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@Gop.8713 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they
still
wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

They were circling me on their mounts? They did not leave the area and waited until I started attacking them? They were obviously not going to any objective...?

The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

Sure, me trying to get a fight where its 2 them vs 1 of me is so cowardly. :eyeroll:

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Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

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