Please gut Condi Daredevil and Acro Staff Daredevil

[Tsuchinoko.7546]

Condi Daredevil and Acro Staff Daredevil have been running rampant in ranked and are some of the most unhealthy specs in this game atm. Condi thief with high poison uptime because of Deadly Ambition( which is bugged btw if u use a skill that multi hits like clusterbomb it applies the 2 poison per hit)and panic strike which gives even more poison output + has 4 condis to cover it just from 1 dodge(cripple,torment,bleed,weakness). Acro staff thief perma evades on node by abusing staff 3 evade while jumping which cancels the rollback animation vuln frame and is almost impossible to kill without line of warding like spells (Hammer 5 on guard, Fear ring on necro, earth wall on ele). Escapists Foritude grants staff thief ridiculous amounts of clear (1 condi clear per evade) and needs an icd increase. Deadly Ambition needs to have its icd increased like the ranger trait refined toxins which does 1 STACK OF POISON ON A 15 SEC CD(formerly 5sec) and perhaps apply the poison on crit instead of any strike. Panic Strike also needs to have an icd for the poison it grants because currently sword 2 is a spammable free immob + 2 stacks of poison(1 if not traited).

[ILoveBeer.1570]

Agreed both builds are abominations and encourage degenerate gameplay.

[Alatar.7364]

DrD Staff was running rampant in Ranked? O.o

[Carnifex.3275]

So daredevil is the weakest class right now after so many nerfs.. and we still want to nerf it? Sure sure.. Make steal range 100. Delete condi clear on dodge cuz it's so OP (apparently condi players don't know how to cancel their skills while DrD is dodging i guess.) And.. make staff #3 cost 300 initiative. Alrighty. Oh and nerf staff dmg by 99%. Should be okey for like 1 season atleast.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Dave.6819 said:So daredevil is the weakest class right now after so many nerfs.. and we still want to nerf it? Sure sure.. Make steal range 100. Delete condi clear on dodge cuz it's so OP (apparently condi players don't know how to cancel their skills while DrD is dodging i guess.) And.. make staff #3 cost 300 initiative. Alrighty. Oh and nerf staff dmg by 99%. Should be okey for like 1 season atleast.

Weakest at what? Sure d/p daredevil took a hit with the swipe range, cant think of anything else that's ruined that build regards to theif traits it self.

Staff daredevil took no hits at all in a while and probably gave it a small buff with the weakness change, as well as condi clear on dodge.

Condi da traits with poison stacking is annoying though, like 1 choking gas did something like instant 5 stacks

[Carnifex.3275]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Dave.6819 said:So daredevil is the weakest class right now after so many nerfs.. and we still want to nerf it? Sure sure.. Make steal range 100. Delete condi clear on dodge cuz it's so OP (apparently condi players don't know how to cancel their skills while DrD is dodging i guess.) And.. make staff #3 cost 300 initiative. Alrighty. Oh and nerf staff dmg by 99%. Should be okey for like 1 season atleast.

Weakest at what? Sure d/p daredevil took a hit with the swipe range, cant think of anything else that's ruined that build regards to theif traits it self.

Staff daredevil took no hits at all in a while and probably gave it a small buff with the weakness change, as well as condi clear on dodge.

Condi da traits with poison stacking is annoying though, like 1 choking gas did something like instant 5 stacks

Just roll back post-HoT or even HoT days and check the list how many nerfs we had.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Dave.6819 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Dave.6819 said:So daredevil is the weakest class right now after so many nerfs.. and we still want to nerf it? Sure sure.. Make steal range 100. Delete condi clear on dodge cuz it's so OP (apparently condi players don't know how to cancel their skills while DrD is dodging i guess.) And.. make staff #3 cost 300 initiative. Alrighty. Oh and nerf staff dmg by 99%. Should be okey for like 1 season atleast.

Weakest at what? Sure d/p daredevil took a hit with the swipe range, cant think of anything else that's ruined that build regards to theif traits it self.

Staff daredevil took no hits at all in a while and probably gave it a small buff with the weakness change, as well as condi clear on dodge.

Condi da traits with poison stacking is annoying though, like 1 choking gas did something like instant 5 stacks

Just roll back post-HoT or even HoT days and check the list how many nerfs we had.

I am well aware of the changes. Still didn't stop daredevil until boon pof came out, even dash nerf wasn't noticed.

[Tycura.1982]

@Alatar.7364 said:DrD Staff was running rampant in Ranked? O.o

Can't speak for ranked but it's being abused in AT for sure. It's not your typical vault and bound spam.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:DrD Staff was running rampant in Ranked? O.o

Can't speak for ranked but it's being abused in AT for sure. It's not your typical vault and bound spam.

They are the staff thieves to be worried about, that use #2#3#4 more than anything else

[AsiraasiB.7165]

My god how many nerf thief threads are there? Please go play a thief...I melt condi thieves on my core necro.. Druid no problem.. Most my ele builds....

And when i run condi thief any competent player does just fine.

[Carnifex.3275]

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:My god how many nerf thief threads are there? Please go play a thief...I melt condi thieves on my core necro.. Druid no problem.. Most my ele builds....

And when i run condi thief any competent player does just fine.

That's what i'm saying. U can take any class in the game and pretty much destroy thief/drd no matter the build they're playing. I've never had any problems against em. I got problems only when i play one.

[Yannir.4132]

If Deadly Ambition is bugged, I understand that needs a fix but other than that this is a L2P-issue.

[Alatar.7364]

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:DrD Staff was running rampant in Ranked? O.o

Can't speak for ranked but it's being abused in AT for sure. It's not your typical vault and bound spam.

I didn't meet any in neither Ranked nor ATs, I get that people can have different experience, but it seems a suspicious statement anyway.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Daredevil/Acro lines are indeed granting too much. Thief needed a buff, but it didn't need literally "permanent dodge/evade spam and condi cleanse". I don't even care about the damage output, that's fine. It's the "infinitely slippery" part that makes it too much.

In team fights where they actually have stability being splashed on them, you seriously cannot kill these new Daredevil builds. Because the one moment you do land a CC, it won't CC it. And boon removal isn't reliable to use when you miss the Thief 9/10s you attempt to strike it. It's too much defensive play.

Upon that, it creates this effect where the Thief cannot be struck for 3/4ths of the time you are engaging it, as it stands in your face nontheless. And when it does make itself vulnerable, it's landing with a Vault and spamming condis all over, that you have to eat if you want to strike it. It's just more of that "I am 100% defensing you while I 100% offense you stuff" and that pisses everyone off. Arenanet needs to STOP adding this kind of play to the game. It's so braindead and the more they add this type of gameplay, the less interactive & skillful the game dynamic becomes.

I thought we already learned this from older tanky Mirage builds. Not sure why this is happening again on Daredevil.

[Tycura.1982]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:DrD Staff was running rampant in Ranked? O.o

Can't speak for ranked but it's being abused in AT for sure. It's not your typical vault and bound spam.

I didn't meet any in neither Ranked nor ATs, I get that people can have different experience, but it seems a suspicious statement anyway.

Ive ran up against it three times in late day ATs. Twice with JonesBoy and once from some other named Private somthing. That's in the last week.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Daredevil/Acro lines are indeed granting too much. Thief needed a buff, but it didn't need literally "permanent dodge/evade spam and condi cleanse". I don't even care about the damage output, that's fine. It's the "infinitely slippery" part that makes it too much.

In team fights where they actually have stability being splashed on them, you seriously cannot kill these new Daredevil builds. Because the one moment you do land a CC, it won't CC it. And boon removal isn't reliable to use when you miss the Thief 9/10s you attempt to strike it. It's too much defensive play.

New builds, slap it up on build editor if you can

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Daredevil/Acro lines are indeed granting too much. Thief needed a buff, but it didn't need literally "permanent dodge/evade spam and condi cleanse". I don't even care about the damage output, that's fine. It's the "infinitely slippery" part that makes it too much.

In team fights where they actually have stability being splashed on them, you seriously cannot kill these new Daredevil builds. Because the one moment you do land a CC, it won't CC it. And boon removal isn't reliable to use when you miss the Thief 9/10s you attempt to strike it. It's too much defensive play.

New builds, slap it up on build editor if you can

You haven't seen this yet? It's like a sustainy Staff/Shortbow Condi Spam Perma Dodge-Evade build. Not quite exactly sure what they are running for an amulet, but I'm positive it's Deadly/Acro/Daredevil, and probably something like Carrion/Adventurer with double Energy sigils I'm sure. Annoying AF.

They swap into SB and drop #4 for the poison field, and then dodge roll through it for whirl finisher poison bolts, swap back to Staff when they're low on init/endurance and rebuild it all back up while healing off those new traits mind you. It's just too much man. Worst part is, that build can actually hold a node. Only things it can't kill are things with a lot of very frequent small condi cleanses. Things with less frequent larger condi clears or few condi clears in general, get absolutely destroyed by this build. There is no counter play. And even if this build somehow begins to lose to something on a node, it can just disengage and leave because it has a shortbow. Annoying AF I tell ya. Heralds will be pushed out of meta eventually this season due to this build.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Daredevil/Acro lines are indeed granting too much. Thief needed a buff, but it didn't need literally "permanent dodge/evade spam and condi cleanse". I don't even care about the damage output, that's fine. It's the "infinitely slippery" part that makes it too much.

In team fights where they actually have stability being splashed on them, you seriously cannot kill these new Daredevil builds. Because the one moment you do land a CC, it won't CC it. And boon removal isn't reliable to use when you miss the Thief 9/10s you attempt to strike it. It's too much defensive play.

New builds, slap it up on build editor if you can

You haven't seen this yet? It's like a sustainy Staff/Shortbow Condi Spam Perma Dodge-Evade build. Not quite exactly sure what they are running for an amulet, but I'm positive it's Deadly/Acro/Daredevil, and probably something like Carrion/Adventurer with double Energy sigils I'm sure. Annoying AF.

They swap into SB and drop #4 for the poison field, and then dodge roll through it for whirl finisher poison bolts, swap back to Staff when they're low on init/endurance and rebuild it all back up while healing off those new traits mind you. It's just too much man. Worst part is, that build can actually hold a node.

Oh, my mistake. Didn't know you was referring to condi staff.

Weaking charge is also a whirl finisher too.

Deadly arts is poison overload now and the I intrupts with choking gas just make it worse.

[BadMed.3846]

I see mesmers flying around here.

[Tayga.3192]

I haven't been playing lately but is condi thief really that big of a problem?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Tayga.3192 said:I haven't been playing lately but is condi thief really that big of a problem?

Middle tier Thieves no. Good Thieves, debatable. Great Thieves, the shit is broken when people know telegraphs well and can actually dodge everything you do that is important because the class is providing them that much dodge/evade power.

But even so, I believe Holosmith is on a higher priority for balancing before Daredevil. Holo stacks in organized AT play is just absolutely disgusting right now. Everything else in the game is getting nerfed hard and begin given drawbacks. Because Holo has not had this yet, it's on a different level than other builds right now. When you have a team with no Holos vs. a team with 2x Holos, it feels like you showed up to a boxing match and your opponent brought a gun with him. Unless they do something about, which I'm sure they won't, it's going to put a nasty flavor on S18.

[KrHome.1920]

Haha funny. People flamed me in the swipe nerf trait when I said staff daredevil became extremely strong in that update and the 600 range decrease means nothing as daredevil now got a free basilisk and perma weakness and damage reduction and can go for dagger storm without any drawback.

Just another proof of how much the teef players in this forum suck at the game.

Get good at your spec folks!

[Abelisk.5148]

The biggest downside to Staff/Staff daredevil is its low defense, one shot from a Ranger LB spammer or anyone with strong ranged attack can shut the build down.

[Lighter.5631]

it's still here? i saw those staff thieves weeks ago before i went to play other games, i thought they would have been patched by now..they literally holds point against 3 people in plat...

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Dave.6819 said:

@AsiraasiB.7165 said:My god how many nerf thief threads are there? Please go play a thief...I melt condi thieves on my core necro.. Druid no problem.. Most my ele builds....

And when i run condi thief any competent player does just fine.

That's what i'm saying. U can take any class in the game and pretty much destroy thief/drd no matter the build they're playing. I've never had any problems against em. I got problems only when i play one.

as condimes you cant touch them, even once. if you land any point of damage you can consider it a victory :Dthey can run into 2 chaos storm on top of a reflect field, and take no damage while killing you. fun stuff.