The loss of IP seems to be the tradeoff for alacrity. Maybe we can brainstorm fairer ones instead?

[Daniel Handler.4816]

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:I thought the removal of IP was a slap-dash nerf to delete the GS burst on chrono (by literally halving the dmg on 1 clone F1), the ability to 0 clone CS and dry shattering in CS for instant extra dmg.

Other than that, I don’t think there was any other intent behind removing IP, and for some PvE players, it was very uncalled for (and as appealing as Rewinder seems, it would have been far better to fix condi on core, which was what I thought all these ‘trade offs’ were about (and which it obviously isn’t)).

I mean it is a possibility. But it seems a little too cruel to so drastically affect an entire spec for one build.

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:But obviously they thinkThey are not. The most logical thing to do would be to adapt traits for the new trade off and shave split cd by half minimum,at least for pvp/wvw but what we have got, pathetic nothing, shatter rename and called it a day, enjoy your "new" shatters losers ! :joy:

I don't think they were being logical. Or at least not by our standards.

[Levetty.1279]

@Zin Dau.1749 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:Thinking about it Renegade has alacrity but doesn't have IP so maybe they are on to something here.

Really now? stooping to direct class to class comparisons? Ok to make it a fair comparison, Renegade can't swap legends without any clones. Also Renegade damage is reduced by half unless they have clones out. Nah let's make all classes not able to use F abilities if they don't have clones out. Now all classes can be compared to mesmer.

Yeah but renegade doesn't have IP.

[Axl.8924]

@Hiraga Taichiru.1580 said:Honestly i think most people will agree with me on this..

chrono is shatter based character , by going chrono all mesmer skills gain reduced CD with alacrity buff, however not many thought too much about chrono wells (Which are not good at all). When ANET devs dropped the shatter Dependency overtime for chrono, players are forced to look at chrono utility skills .... i mean come on, even when you were playing support , you only used 2 wells at maximum, and when you play dmg, you most likely to use 1 well which is the elite...If you remember, they buffed the wells to give more boon duration.. but wait!!... why would i think of this as useful if there is a chance of me not getting the boon at all ???. EVEN the caster of the skill can't.============================================ end of the common groundsSo if Anet thinks the IP nerf is good, then i suggest the following :

• Every utility/healing/Elite skill should be reworked to better skills which could be used underwater also generates clone when used.
• shield skill 4 should have 2 phantasms, one for defending and one for attacking
• the buff of alacrity in the traits, should be mandatory and not a selective trait... as chrono this should differentiate this class from support revenent which also provide alacrity
• quickness can be provided by core mesmer , therefore it should not be a feature for the chrono, and thus the shield skill 5 should only grant alacrity for 8 sec as before, and also grants enemies slow condi on top of the jade effect... why ? cuz when this class fight an enemy class with stability, then it should lower the speed of enemy actions increasing the chance of their survivability.
• Buff but not boon, this should be applied on chrono traits which allows the chrono to summon clones when using phantasm skills (stacks up to 5, and recharges every 10 secs by default)
• Time catches Up, is a worthless trait unless it grants the chrono, something like Super speed for less time than clones..? Maybe ??

Of-course these are my suggestions, im sure if all were applied this class would be somehow OP, but im sure some ideas might be applied to chrono in the next update.. that is if the devs see this.

illusionary leap has cripple plus vuln and that shield has echo of memory

phantasmal berserker has also cripple and F3 has slow seems to me like a decent amount of cripple. Slow seems like something less easy to get, but cripple is one I don't get.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:I thought the removal of IP was a slap-dash nerf to delete the GS burst on chrono (by literally halving the dmg on 1 clone F1), the ability to 0 clone CS and dry shattering in CS for instant extra dmg.

Other than that, I don’t think there was any other intent behind removing IP, and for some PvE players, it was very uncalled for (and as appealing as Rewinder seems, it would have been far better to fix condi on core, which was what I thought all these ‘trade offs’ were about (and which it obviously isn’t)).

I mean it is a possibility. But it seems a little too cruel to so drastically affect an entire spec for one build.

It’s not cruelty, it’s just standard anet logic. I mean, look at the initial legendary sigil/rune implementation and the ‘customise’ feature - they thought it was a such a great idea but in reality, it came out as a broken feature before being quick-fixed thanks to anet’s more-than-obvious priorities.

The same can be said the loss of IP - apart from shaking up the shatters (and leaving chrono like all the other ‘replaced-a-weaker-core-mechanic’ especs, except not stronger this time), they thought it was a great idea to implement an experimental and clearly untested bandaid to GS burst/double cast/CS dry shatter chrono as part of the ‘trade off(s)’ at the same time (can we really stop calling them trade offs, they really aren’t). Guess what, it came out broken like pretty much 50% of all the other content that anet releases, but the problem isn’t about that - it’s about anet’s evidently great priorities and ‘plans for future balance’ /s, infuriatingly long response times (QQ for 3+ months is not a joke) and refusal to ever revert bad changes or at least provide test servers/pre-week ‘test patches’ so that players themselves can gauge potential changes for them before they release the finalised patch (where anet can actually put their ‘metrics’ to good use by fixing, delaying or outright removing broken content).

[praqtos.9035]

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:Instead of fixing mirage ambushes in pvp(scepter/staff) they will delete entire class like they did with a chrono. There is no hope in einal net

[SaferMurderweapon.7143]

"The loss of IP seems to be the tradeoff for alacrity"

Revenant would like to have a word with you...

[Xstein.2187]

What are the comparatively worse shatters tradeoffs for?

I'm honestly really surprised the new shatters weren't AoE support focus since chrono was designed primarily as a support spec.I suppose changing shatters that much would have took too much time.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:I thought the removal of IP was a slap-dash nerf to delete the GS burst on chrono (by literally halving the dmg on 1 clone F1), the ability to 0 clone CS and dry shattering in CS for instant extra dmg.

Other than that, I don’t think there was any other intent behind removing IP, and for some PvE players, it was very uncalled for (and as appealing as Rewinder seems, it would have been far better to fix condi on core, which was what I thought all these ‘trade offs’ were about (and which it obviously isn’t)).

I mean it is a possibility. But it seems a little too cruel to so drastically affect an entire spec for one build.

It’s not cruelty, it’s just standard anet logic. I mean, look at the initial legendary sigil/rune implementation and the ‘customise’ feature - they thought it was a such a great idea but in reality, it came out as a broken feature before being quick-fixed thanks to anet’s more-than-obvious priorities.

The same can be said the loss of IP - apart from shaking up the shatters (and leaving chrono like all the other ‘replaced-a-weaker-core-mechanic’ especs, except not stronger this time), they thought it was a great idea to implement an experimental and clearly untested bandaid to GS burst/double cast/CS dry shatter chrono as part of the ‘trade off(s)’ at the same time (can we really stop calling them trade offs, they really aren’t). Guess what, it came out broken like pretty much 50% of all the other content that anet releases, but the problem isn’t about that - it’s about anet’s evidently great priorities and ‘plans for future balance’ /s, infuriatingly long response times (QQ for 3+ months is not a joke) and refusal to ever revert bad changes or at least provide test servers/pre-week ‘test patches’ so that players themselves can gauge potential changes for them

before

they release the finalised patch (where anet can actually put their ‘metrics’ to good use by fixing, delaying or outright removing broken content.

Its a possibility. However Power Chrono isn't meta outside of PvE, and that mode uses CS with clones in its damage rotations. If they had a problem it would be with dryshattering itself, not solely GS burst. Otherwise why remove IP from all shatters.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

@"Vincenzo.3145" said:"The loss of IP seems to be the tradeoff for alacrity"

Revenant would like to have a word with you...

Energy limits their skill use. And in a way being unable to dryshatter is a similar resource limitation.

[Hiraga Taichiru.1580]

Imagine that you play revenent and you have to use skills to generate energy, however if someone hits you one hit you lose 10-30 energy, would you play reverent? what's more imagine the skills you use to generate energy has a CD of 20 secs minimum, would you play?

[praqtos.9035]

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@"Vincenzo.3145" said:"The loss of IP seems to be the tradeoff for alacrity"

Revenant would like to have a word with you...

Energy limits their skill use. And in a way being unable to dryshatter is a similar resource limitation.Your game knowledge amuses me... First you compare 2 different classes.Then if we look at grand concept of "trade off" they lost useless f2 skill for 3 more far better skills with no trade offs.1 of them is free alacrity and free 25 mights. Ah yes, mesmer alacrity SUCKS because it is in WELLS and u have to take utility. According to you, they should had lost second legend as a trade off and never would able to swap.Revenant never start with 0 energy, on swap with low energy he can have 75. Its their resource? But its easly accessable and undestructable, the only class that can suffer from it and the only class that was gutted in a manner to kill1 build and without caring that will kill the elite spec in the process.

[SaferMurderweapon.7143]

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@"Vincenzo.3145" said:"The loss of IP seems to be the tradeoff for alacrity"

Revenant would like to have a word with you...

Energy limits their skill use. And in a way being unable to dryshatter is a similar resource limitation.

Then they might as well have removed it the alacrity from shatters which was not even unbalanced in anyway, but could not even be shared with anyone. You're making a really bad comparison here. The changes might make sense in PvP, but Chrono wasn't and still isn't a problem in PvP. Especially unlike some other classes. There is no merit in these changes.

Not only is dealing with clones more annoying than managing resources on Rev which is actually fun and engaging in comparison, but the alacrity you get from shattters cannot even be shared. So the whole point of Chrono getting free alacrity on dryshattering is not only moot... but in the case of support Chrono, that alacrity and Chronophantasma (which you will have clones for to double-dip on Phantasms and only that), are the only reasons why anyone playing support Chrono would even bother with the first two shatters.

Essentially it would make sense to remove Distort given what they did because Distort wouldn't be viable if you needed a clone to use it. Yet it still exists on CS and it essentially does not. Nobody is going to CS through something they would Distort through and no one is going to get any use out of Distort anytime they would CS.

One second invuln topped with aegis in PvE is invaluable when used properly and the current changes make Chronoplay incredibly restrictive. It also makes CC phases in raids more troubling as tanks because now we can't double our elites anymore like we used to without being subjected to the bad clone resource mechanic

[Daniel Handler.4816]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@"Vincenzo.3145" said:"The loss of IP seems to be the tradeoff for alacrity"

Revenant would like to have a word with you...

Energy limits their skill use. And in a way being unable to dryshatter is a similar resource limitation.Your game knowledge amuses me... First you compare 2 different classes.

Yes? In response to someone mentioning Revenant?

Then if we look at grand concept of "trade off" they lost useless f2 skill for 3 more far better skills with no trade offs.1 of them is free alacrity and free 25 mights. Ah yes, mesmer alacrity SUCKS because it is in WELLS and u have to take utility. According to you, they should had lost second legend as a trade off and never would able to swap.Revenant never start with 0 energy, on swap with low energy he can have 75. Its their resource? But its easly accessable and undestructable, the only class that can suffer from it and the only class that was gutted in a manner to kill1 build and without caring that will kill the elite spec in the process.

You presume I like the change. I would rather believe they have a reason than assume the developers are acting for the sake of things, arbitrarily, or out of malice. Clearly replacing distortion with CS wasn't enough of a trade-off for them. And that makes sense to me, though I also know it doesn't to others. That doesn't mean I agree with is how far they went. IP needs to be restored.

Also in terms of comparing different classes, this isn't complicated game knowledge. Alacrity only works on cooldowns. And, barring the f2 skill you called useless, Alacrity doesn't help Revenants regain energy. Less benefit means less of a trade-off.