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QoL request since we have invisible tags


Swagger.1459

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Ok.. I must have missed the memo where winning matters again? Someone send it to me please.

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@Swagger.1459 said:it would be beneficial for us to know how many players from your side are on a map. Please add (your server only) population numbers to the WvW UI window please?

I'm not sure I understand what this has to do with private squads. We've never had access to population numbers, we've never known how many roamers or groups run tagless.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

I know, there are spies everywhere and Charr government officers will come take you away at any point, and you’ll never to be seen again! Scary stuff!

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

I know, there are spies everywhere and Charr government officers will come take you away at any point, and you’ll never to be seen again! Scary stuff!

I am doomed.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:it would be beneficial for us to know how many players from your side are on a map. Please add (your server only) population numbers to the WvW UI window please?

I'm not sure I understand what this has to do with private squads. We've never had access to population numbers, we've never known how many roamers or groups running tagless.

Going to go over a couple potential scenarios...

Player: “Any tags up?”

crickets

Player: “Welp, WvW is dead. I’ll come back later to see if there is a tag running.”

Scenario 2...

Player: “Any tags up?”

crickets

Player: “Let me check the wvw map interface to see if there are any of my peeps playing.”

Player: “Sweet, looks like we have 30 people on this BL, I’ll go there and play”

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Tag watching is very much a real thing and not simply some foil hat conspiracy theory.

Simply seeing a tag on map didn't give you any indication of numbers or what they were doing before and seeing numbers now will still give no indication of what they're doing.

I think the change is beneficial in deterring tag watching behavior with alts and also allowing multiple tags to run on a map without appearing conflicting or confusing unsquaded players. Also, closed squads can now run closed without dealing with any expectations from pugs or other commanders, and this is beneficial for a number of reasons.

I see how it can be taken as detrimental in that people log in and check maps for a tag as a gauge for the level of participation, but I would point out that that's really a poor/lazy metric. That tag could be doing any number of things with any size squad from 1-50, or even be a closed squad. There's other ways to gauge what's going on on the map, up to and including getting out on the map!!

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

I know, there are spies everywhere and Charr government officers will come take you away at any point, and you’ll never to be seen again! Scary stuff!

I am doomed.

Yup! You better watch out!

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@Tinnel.4369 said:Tag watching is very much a real thing and not simply some foil hat conspiracy theory.

Simply seeing a tag on map didn't give you any indication of numbers or what they were doing before and seeing numbers now will still give no indication of what they're doing.

I think the change is beneficial in deterring tag watching behavior with alts and also allowing multiple tags to run on a map without appearing conflicting or confusing unsquaded players. Also, closed squads can now run closed without dealing with any expectations from pugs or other commanders, and this is beneficial for a number of reasons.

I see how it can be taken as detrimental in that people log in and check maps for a tag as a gauge for the level of participation, but I would point out that that's really a poor/lazy metric. That tag could be doing any number of things with any size squad from 1-50, or even be a closed squad. There's other ways to gauge what's going on on the map, up to and including getting out on the map!!

Again:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Ok.. I must have missed the memo where winning matters again? Someone send it to me please.
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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Tag watching is very much a real thing and not simply some foil hat conspiracy theory.

Simply seeing a tag on map didn't give you any indication of numbers or what they were doing before and seeing numbers now will still give no indication of what they're doing.

I think the change is beneficial in deterring tag watching behavior with alts and also allowing multiple tags to run on a map without appearing conflicting or confusing unsquaded players. Also, closed squads can now run closed without dealing with any expectations from pugs or other commanders, and this is beneficial for a number of reasons.

I see how it can be taken as detrimental in that people log in and check maps for a tag as a gauge for the level of participation, but I would point out that that's really a poor/lazy metric. That tag could be doing any number of things with any size squad from 1-50, or even be a closed squad. There's other ways to gauge what's going on on the map, up to and including getting out on the map!!

Again:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Ok.. I must have missed the memo where winning matters again? Someone send it to me please.

Who said anything about winning? Winning what?

Winning a fight matters. If you're posturing for a fight where the enemy shouldn't be able to pinpoint you, but can because he has an alt sitting on your map watching your pin location that's problematic. This of course doesn't solve the problem of physically watching the squad rather than just the pin on map, but to do that they have to at least walk their toon out and find the squad, keep up with them, and stay alive. This is a step in a better direction.

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I think it'd be better if the range for green dots was clearer and from a greater distance. You can see your teammate's location in pvp and ironically you can use sentry to see enemy players more easier than allied players.

The disadvantage is of course all those guilds that claim to run only 15 are going to expose themselves easier but then again your average montage blocks off half the screen sooo...

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i do invis tag. but i will invite anyone who asks for a squad in mine. i dont advertise anymore. since we rarely get numbers in nsp but i dont want players who want to join to be left out.

we are still here. but sometimes the expectation and pressure is hard. take for example we are 8 to 12. and we have to take care of cd or ybs 25+

so i make it so that ppl in my group are in coms and if they are not thats fine. but they will get killed quick and pugs following us in a fight get killed too, since they dont go thru the blob.

i tell my guys that because we are few its ok that we die because many should best small numbrrs. but if we can beat small with big, then yey.

i still play as public open tag. but i like this hidden tag now. my guys enjoy it. and ppl who are interested asks.

i tell you i am happy when players join and tag up. its just great if another tag or guild is playing at our sea/eu.

and i wouldnt mind seeing the numbers of population too. i mean starcraft has a max no. of units with x value per unit. the same should be in wvw.

atleast im glad tomorrow is guildmissions day. so we dont have to care about the points for and hour or so. and we're adapting a deso tradition of hosting a commander hotswap event every fridays so ppl can tag and be followed by my committed guild. we're used to dying a lot so, we will follow and give every people a chance to enjoy being a commander without judgment.

tldr. yes, id like to see the population. as a commander, its not easy to be the only one sometimes. we dont close doors to interested party and the pressure isnt easy fighting tanky players. so ty for the invis tag. we get to do wvw raids. and be at peace but answer the call when needed.

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I was thinking about this earlier this week.. since WvW has largely become a bunch of tagless people looking for stuff to do, it would be nice if we somehow could see everyone on our server on a the map where they are. Yes, I realize that is counterproductive to the invisible tag.

In open world PVP MMOs that I have played in before where there is a big map in similar TeamVsTeamVsTeam game modes, having visibility of where your teammates are was extremely important, especially when the population decline would kick in. If I was not able to see teammates on the map in those game modes, I would probably assume no one one was probably on or that it wasn't worth my effort to find the action and log off. But because I could tell there was activity and where it was, this helped keep the game mode alive and in existence. I feel like those game modes would have died without a feature like this, it was that very feature that was keeping them alive.

Sadly, I think the invisible tag option is counter productive to the current population issues we are facing. It's the opposite that we need to be doing to keep this game mode alive.

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@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Tag watching is very much a real thing and not simply some foil hat conspiracy theory.

Simply seeing a tag on map didn't give you any indication of numbers or what they were doing before and seeing numbers now will still give no indication of what they're doing.

I think the change is beneficial in deterring tag watching behavior with alts and also allowing multiple tags to run on a map without appearing conflicting or confusing unsquaded players. Also, closed squads can now run closed without dealing with any expectations from pugs or other commanders, and this is beneficial for a number of reasons.

I see how it can be taken as detrimental in that people log in and check maps for a tag as a gauge for the level of participation, but I would point out that that's really a poor/lazy metric. That tag could be doing any number of things with any size squad from 1-50, or even be a closed squad. There's other ways to gauge what's going on on the map, up to and including getting out on the map!!

Again:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Ok.. I must have missed the memo where winning matters again? Someone send it to me please.

Who said anything about winning? Winning what?

Winning a fight matters. If you're posturing for a fight where the enemy shouldn't be able to pinpoint you, but can because he has an alt sitting on your map watching your pin location that's problematic. This of course doesn't solve the problem of physically watching the squad rather than just the pin on map, but to do that they have to at least walk their toon out and find the squad, keep up with them, and stay alive. This is a step in a better direction.

So.., help me here...

You want to win a fight but you don’t want them to find you..

And if they can find you it should be one scout that tries to keep up to tell his squad where you are to catch up to you....

So, because he can see you on map, you.... won’t get a fight?

Or maybe you don’t want him to see you so you can get into a keep and possibly cap it before he gets to you?

Kinda have to help me out here..,

If PPT isn’t your goal, then why do you care if the opponent knows where you are?

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

There are actually people that tag watch.

Tags can be invis now... so what’s your point?

If people made the effort to watch tags, they’d certainly to the same for player counts. The one difference being that player counts would give them more meaningful information.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Tag watching is very much a real thing and not simply some foil hat conspiracy theory.

Simply seeing a tag on map didn't give you any indication of numbers or what they were doing before and seeing numbers now will still give no indication of what they're doing.

I think the change is beneficial in deterring tag watching behavior with alts and also allowing multiple tags to run on a map without appearing conflicting or confusing unsquaded players. Also, closed squads can now run closed without dealing with any expectations from pugs or other commanders, and this is beneficial for a number of reasons.

I see how it can be taken as detrimental in that people log in and check maps for a tag as a gauge for the level of participation, but I would point out that that's really a poor/lazy metric. That tag could be doing any number of things with any size squad from 1-50, or even be a closed squad. There's other ways to gauge what's going on on the map, up to and including getting out on the map!!

Again:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Ok.. I must have missed the memo where winning matters again? Someone send it to me please.

Who said anything about winning? Winning what?

Winning a fight matters. If you're posturing for a fight where the enemy shouldn't be able to pinpoint you, but can because he has an alt sitting on your map watching your pin location that's problematic. This of course doesn't solve the problem of physically watching the squad rather than just the pin on map, but to do that they have to at least walk their toon out and find the squad, keep up with them, and stay alive. This is a step in a better direction.

So.., help me here...

You want to win a fight but you don’t want them to find you..

And if they can find you it should be one scout that tries to keep up to tell his squad where you are to catch up to you....

So, because he can see you on map, you.... won’t get a fight?

Or maybe you don’t want him to see you so you can get into a keep and possibly cap it before he gets to you?

Kinda have to help me out here..,

If PPT isn’t your goal, then why do you care if the opponent knows where you are?

You're getting it, but does why the enemy tracking you from an alt account is bad really need to be explained?

While you have a point in that there's no value in winning PPT, what's its relevance here?

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Tag watching is very much a real thing and not simply some foil hat conspiracy theory.

Simply seeing a tag on map didn't give you any indication of numbers or what they were doing before and seeing numbers now will still give no indication of what they're doing.

I think the change is beneficial in deterring tag watching behavior with alts and also allowing multiple tags to run on a map without appearing conflicting or confusing unsquaded players. Also, closed squads can now run closed without dealing with any expectations from pugs or other commanders, and this is beneficial for a number of reasons.

I see how it can be taken as detrimental in that people log in and check maps for a tag as a gauge for the level of participation, but I would point out that that's really a poor/lazy metric. That tag could be doing any number of things with any size squad from 1-50, or even be a closed squad. There's other ways to gauge what's going on on the map, up to and including getting out on the map!!

Again:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Ok.. I must have missed the memo where winning matters again? Someone send it to me please.

Who said anything about winning? Winning what?

Winning a fight matters. If you're posturing for a fight where the enemy shouldn't be able to pinpoint you, but can because he has an alt sitting on your map watching your pin location that's problematic. This of course doesn't solve the problem of physically watching the squad rather than just the pin on map, but to do that they have to at least walk their toon out and find the squad, keep up with them, and stay alive. This is a step in a better direction.

So.., help me here...

You want to win a fight but you don’t want them to find you..

And if they can find you it should be one scout that tries to keep up to tell his squad where you are to catch up to you....

So, because he can see you on map, you.... won’t get a fight?

Or maybe you don’t want him to see you so you can get into a keep and possibly cap it before he gets to you?

Kinda have to help me out here..,

If PPT isn’t your goal, then why do you care if the opponent knows where you are?

You're getting it, but does why the enemy tracking you from an alt account is bad really need to be explained?

While you have a point in that there's no value in winning PPT, what's its relevance here?

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Tag watching is very much a real thing and not simply some foil hat conspiracy theory.

Simply seeing a tag on map didn't give you any indication of numbers or what they were doing before and seeing numbers now will still give no indication of what they're doing.

I think the change is beneficial in deterring tag watching behavior with alts and also allowing multiple tags to run on a map without appearing conflicting or confusing unsquaded players. Also, closed squads can now run closed without dealing with any expectations from pugs or other commanders, and this is beneficial for a number of reasons.

I see how it can be taken as detrimental in that people log in and check maps for a tag as a gauge for the level of participation, but I would point out that that's really a poor/lazy metric. That tag could be doing any number of things with any size squad from 1-50, or even be a closed squad. There's other ways to gauge what's going on on the map, up to and including getting out on the map!!

Again:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Ok.. I must have missed the memo where winning matters again? Someone send it to me please.

Who said anything about winning? Winning what?

Winning a fight matters. If you're posturing for a fight where the enemy shouldn't be able to pinpoint you, but can because he has an alt sitting on your map watching your pin location that's problematic. This of course doesn't solve the problem of physically watching the squad rather than just the pin on map, but to do that they have to at least walk their toon out and find the squad, keep up with them, and stay alive. This is a step in a better direction.

So.., help me here...

You want to win a fight but you don’t want them to find you..

And if they can find you it should be one scout that tries to keep up to tell his squad where you are to catch up to you....

So, because he can see you on map, you.... won’t get a fight?

Or maybe you don’t want him to see you so you can get into a keep and possibly cap it before he gets to you?

Kinda have to help me out here..,

If PPT isn’t your goal, then why do you care if the opponent knows where you are?

You're getting it, but does why the enemy tracking you from an alt account is bad really need to be explained?

While you have a point in that there's no value in winning PPT, what's its relevance here?

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@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Tag watching is very much a real thing and not simply some foil hat conspiracy theory.

Simply seeing a tag on map didn't give you any indication of numbers or what they were doing before and seeing numbers now will still give no indication of what they're doing.

I think the change is beneficial in deterring tag watching behavior with alts and also allowing multiple tags to run on a map without appearing conflicting or confusing unsquaded players. Also, closed squads can now run closed without dealing with any expectations from pugs or other commanders, and this is beneficial for a number of reasons.

I see how it can be taken as detrimental in that people log in and check maps for a tag as a gauge for the level of participation, but I would point out that that's really a poor/lazy metric. That tag could be doing any number of things with any size squad from 1-50, or even be a closed squad. There's other ways to gauge what's going on on the map, up to and including getting out on the map!!

Again:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Ok.. I must have missed the memo where winning matters again? Someone send it to me please.

Who said anything about winning? Winning what?

Winning a fight matters. If you're posturing for a fight where the enemy shouldn't be able to pinpoint you, but can because he has an alt sitting on your map watching your pin location that's problematic. This of course doesn't solve the problem of physically watching the squad rather than just the pin on map, but to do that they have to at least walk their toon out and find the squad, keep up with them, and stay alive. This is a step in a better direction.

So.., help me here...

You want to win a fight but you don’t want them to find you..

And if they can find you it should be one scout that tries to keep up to tell his squad where you are to catch up to you....

So, because he can see you on map, you.... won’t get a fight?

Or maybe you don’t want him to see you so you can get into a keep and possibly cap it before he gets to you?

Kinda have to help me out here..,

If PPT isn’t your goal, then why do you care if the opponent knows where you are?

You're getting it, but does why the enemy tracking you from an alt account is bad really need to be explained?

While you have a point in that there's no value in winning PPT, what's its relevance here?

The only thing that maybe would be a problem (if PPT didn’t matter to you) would be if they ran from you.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:Tag watching is very much a real thing and not simply some foil hat conspiracy theory.

Simply seeing a tag on map didn't give you any indication of numbers or what they were doing before and seeing numbers now will still give no indication of what they're doing.

I think the change is beneficial in deterring tag watching behavior with alts and also allowing multiple tags to run on a map without appearing conflicting or confusing unsquaded players. Also, closed squads can now run closed without dealing with any expectations from pugs or other commanders, and this is beneficial for a number of reasons.

I see how it can be taken as detrimental in that people log in and check maps for a tag as a gauge for the level of participation, but I would point out that that's really a poor/lazy metric. That tag could be doing any number of things with any size squad from 1-50, or even be a closed squad. There's other ways to gauge what's going on on the map, up to and including getting out on the map!!

Again:

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Yeah, cause we need to screw over legit players by being paranoid conspiracy theorists over “leech alts” lol

Oh, you would be surprised

@Luranni.9470 said:Yeah coz that won't be exploited by wvw leech-alts at all.

Ok.. I must have missed the memo where winning matters again? Someone send it to me please.

Who said anything about winning? Winning what?

Winning a fight matters. If you're posturing for a fight where the enemy shouldn't be able to pinpoint you, but can because he has an alt sitting on your map watching your pin location that's problematic. This of course doesn't solve the problem of physically watching the squad rather than just the pin on map, but to do that they have to at least walk their toon out and find the squad, keep up with them, and stay alive. This is a step in a better direction.

So.., help me here...

You want to win a fight but you don’t want them to find you..

And if they can find you it should be one scout that tries to keep up to tell his squad where you are to catch up to you....

So, because he can see you on map, you.... won’t get a fight?

Or maybe you don’t want him to see you so you can get into a keep and possibly cap it before he gets to you?

Kinda have to help me out here..,

If PPT isn’t your goal, then why do you care if the opponent knows where you are?

You're getting it, but does why the enemy tracking you from an alt account is bad really need to be explained?

While you have a point in that there's no value in winning PPT, what's its relevance here?

The only thing that maybe would be a problem (if PPT didn’t matter to you) would be if they ran from you.

Them using that knowledge to alter their strategy in any way is problematic. Running is if course one option.

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