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So what is even the future of this game?


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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Raknar.4735" said:I'll also just call myself a veteran since i was here since GW1 and give my thoughts on this.I've seen a lot of people call the open world "single-player" content, yet big metas require a lot of people. Yes, they aren't hard to coordinate, but you need the people. That itself is already enough for me to not call it "single-player". People cooperate to finish the meta, you play as a group, but don't have to be in a group. What's wrong with that?

Whats wrong with that is group content and doing something along xyz other players isnt the same. The realest way i can put it to words would be that anet replaces all players in metas with simple npc bots and nothing would change.

Dungeons, fractals, raids all require more than just others being there and to diff extend they all rely to communication far more than most of the ow.

To describe it in one line ill just quote Woodenpotatpes: Gw2 is the play alone together mmo and thats sad.

You don't need any communication in Dungeons, fractals, raids if everyone knows what he's doing. If you say you can replace players with npcs during metas like Chak gerent, you can do the same with all of the instanced content, since those npcs would be smart enough to do simple mechanics.

I'd rather have a "play alone together mmo", than a "play completely shut off from the rest of the community mmo", since there's nothing massively about instanced content and you don't interact with anyone but a select few.

I still have a question for everyone saying that they want true MMO-content like dungeons/fractals/raids. How is that MMO content? How are 5-10 player groups "massively"? 5-10 Players are the amount of players i normally see on lobby based games. Most shooters have more players in a single match.

I think they refer to the inherent need for communication and interaction between players to innitiate and beat that content. Out of all worlds bosses and metas only tt reliably has had a community around doing it and i find it to be the best example of non single player ow content gw2 has.

I agree that we need more metas like TT, but you always have interaction in open world. Simply rezzing is interaction.It still doesn't change the fact that instanced content isn't truly MMO-content. Back during GW2's release some people even scoffed at the fact that every zone is instanced in itself and not a connected persistent open world.

Don't kid yourself, only because you keep pressing 1 while doing open world metas just to get the reward, doesn't mean everyone is. You're only able to do that, because others are doing your damage.

The others would prob die of boredom if they didnt press anything else tbh.

I quit raids because i nearly fell asleep repeating my rotation, so idk

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@"JTGuevara.9018" said:I ask this question because although obviously gw2 is not dead, it is in trouble. The more I play this game, the more it becomes a single-player, cash grab, WoW "killer", like every other typical MMO. Where's the plan concerning gw2 as it stands? Sure there is living world- s5, but....then what? How long can this game survive with just living world and gem store? I actually don't even CARE about expansions or gw3. Honestly, those will solve nothing, not the core issues regarding this series. If the expansions or gw3 are merely single-player, gem store oriented, cash grabs then what is even the point of playing them?

What I notice about gw2 is the disturbing lack of group content. I'm not even talking about hard content like fractals or raids, just general group content: something that is so basic regarding MMOs. Where are the guild functions? Why have dungeons, spvp & wvw been abandoned? Why is there no group content that people can get into to encourage socialization--example: player housing, bounty systems, job systems, etc? I notice that gw2, like other MMOs, generally caters to the single-player, instant loot gratification crowd.

Honestly, I'd rather scrap the expansions or gw3, and fix the game at this point...

Completely disagree. How long have you been playing GW2?

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@Arden.7480 said:

@ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:I can't help but feel that these kinds of posts are just other mmo users who want to try and sabotage gw2. They just try to make the game seem like its dying even though it's not.

It's a very common thing to see nowadays, check WoW's forums...

GW2 forums and reddit always get anxious 2 months after the episode, the same thing happened before PoF, and in between every episode that GW2 is dying, while seeing that we get constant patches.

We must learn to ignore those kind of posts, and don't comment on them.
There is no use to prove someone is wrong every single week.

True to a certain extent. As a wow player before this i heard years worth of the sky is falling threads, so i tend to chuckle when i see one. But at the same time a game needs to move forward and not stagnate in one place in order to be popular and profitable. You will always have the die hard players that stick with a game to the end saying everything is fine even when it isnt. Well the point is to have a game that not only the die hards play, but you have a good sized population so people can do things together. And if your core game is good then making new content will always keep players interested. Otherwise you wind up with a small playerbase, that dwindles away.

Look its been what, 2 years since pof? The time frame for expansions is usually 1.5 to 3 years for many games in the genre. But expansions are needed not only as a big burst of revenue, but to retain players.

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@"JTGuevara.9018" said:I ask this question because although obviously gw2 is not dead, it is in trouble. The more I play this game, the more it becomes a single-player, cash grab, WoW "killer", like every other typical MMO. Where's the plan concerning gw2 as it stands? Sure there is living world- s5, but....then what? How long can this game survive with just living world and gem store? I actually don't even CARE about expansions or gw3. Honestly, those will solve nothing, not the core issues regarding this series. If the expansions or gw3 are merely single-player, gem store oriented, cash grabs then what is even the point of playing them?

What I notice about gw2 is the disturbing lack of group content. I'm not even talking about hard content like fractals or raids, just general group content: something that is so basic regarding MMOs. Where are the guild functions? Why have dungeons, spvp & wvw been abandoned? Why is there no group content that people can get into to encourage socialization--example: player housing, bounty systems, job systems, etc? I notice that gw2, like other MMOs, generally caters to the single-player, instant loot gratification crowd.

Honestly, I'd rather scrap the expansions or gw3, and fix the game at this point...

What do you consider Teq, TT, Claw of Jormag, or any of the other world bosses? I've made a lot of friends in the game by regularly showing up for these events. Same with the bounties in PoF zones.

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The future of this game is somewhat status quo. People leave... People come back... New Gem Store Items weekly. Semi annual fractal/raid releases. The occasional bone thrown to the pvp game modes. Steady living world updates. Balance patches that enrage the people who abuse said class. Every so often we will get a quality of life update that makes you feel like someone is listening out there. This has been the present, past, and future of this game I am not sure what else to expect.

What I do know is that the proverbial sky has been falling on this game since release and I have not been hit in the head yet by anything. So why people keep pulling the fire alarm is beyond me. If your bored with the game that's ok go play something else because you probably need to. We will all still be here when you come back awaiting your questions in map chat because of how much has changed since you left.

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@"JTGuevara.9018" said:You know, when I see that gw2 has laid off about 1/3 of its workforce,No, ArenaNet laid off an estimated 1/3 of its workforce. Near as we can tell from what little has been mentioned, those resources were allocated towards projects other than GW2.

releases content and updates at a snail's pace,The rate is the same as it's been for years.

gw2 not communicating its direction....They've never been consistent about communicating plans. Sometimes, they gives us a ton of info; most of the time they don't. Lots of companies are like this; a few aren't. It's understandable why companies that share their plans are fan favorites, including ones that produce awesome products (and some that produce less-than-good ones). That doesn't mean that a company must appear collaborative to succeed.

maybe...just MAYBE there's room for questions about the state of the game.You began with a statement that the game was in trouble. That's not "asking questions," that's pushing an agenda.

"Don't worry about it! Enjoy the gemstore!"

A very few of the comments are like that. Some of the comments are closer to "what's different this month from 12 months ago or the last 873 times someone has said that the game was dead or dying or in trouble?"

"gw2 is steady chugging along as usual!!"….You say that like it's a bad thing, as if ANet suddenly changed from a company with a clear sense of how to make fun games that were profitable to one that has no clue. Of course, that's a possibility; we just aren't likely to see evidence of that.

But no....I'm just a veteran, what do I know?

It's what you've claimed that people are disagreeing with. Your preferences and your observations are your own. However, that's not the same as objective facts about the state of the game.

Players just come and go right? Yeah...until they don't....Yes, the sun rises and sets until it doesn't, too. That's not a very useful concept, especially if one is cherry picking facts to suit a narrative.


There are plenty of things to criticize about the game and about the company that makes it. The thing is that most of those criticisms are well-established; they aren't new. That doesn't make them invalid, of course; it just means that they are unlikely to be precursors of the End of Days for the game.

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@Goettel.4389 said:

@JTGuevara.9018 said: Only the HoT metas require cooperation... but people tend not to like those....You mean the most popular group content in the game?Yeah, like I said. Use LFG.

Agreed. Good communication and working together is essential for these. Same as for getting Gold in the Boss Blitz in the festival of the four winds. We've all seen how things go when good comms take the lead and explain what needs to happen and monitor the event to look for trouble spots. That's when groups work at their best.

And I'd bet we've all been there when things go pear-shaped when communication is absent.

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@Zuldari.3940 said:

@ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:I can't help but feel that these kinds of posts are just other mmo users who want to try and sabotage gw2. They just try to make the game seem like its dying even though it's not.

It's a very common thing to see nowadays, check WoW's forums...

GW2 forums and reddit always get anxious 2 months after the episode, the same thing happened before PoF, and in between every episode that GW2 is dying, while seeing that we get constant patches.

We must learn to ignore those kind of posts, and don't comment on them.
There is no use to prove someone is wrong every single week.

True to a certain extent. As a wow player before this i heard years worth of the sky is falling threads, so i tend to chuckle when i see one. But at the same time a game needs to move forward and not stagnate in one place in order to be popular and profitable. You will always have the die hard players that stick with a game to the end saying everything is fine even when it isnt. Well the point is to have a game that not only the die hards play, but you have a good sized population so people can do things together. And if your core game is good then making new content will always keep players interested. Otherwise you wind up with a small playerbase, that dwindles away.

Look its been what, 2 years since pof? The time frame for expansions is usually 1.5 to 3 years for many games in the genre. But expansions are needed not only as a big burst of revenue, but to retain players.

The problem that many players have with Season 5, is actually the vision of another Season that, as Season 3&4 took 2 years to finish, will end in like 2021 or 2022.

And it looks like Anet is gonna talk about Living World during their announcement for 45 minutes, so people start to think Episodes will replace expansions.

But if so... do they have resources to make Episodes have a content for at least 1 week plus?

That this PAX announcement isn't straight up announcement of Expansion 3, that scares people and we still have 2 weeks to wait for 'something', not even knowing what.

WoW in contrary will have the next expansion next year for certain, cos it will be 2 years after BfA, but GW2 offers some episodes...

Everyone is aware of that, that's why recently there is even more posts about uncertainty of this game.

But people need to understand that 30th of August will answer all the questions, and whether we will see an expansion or not... In 15 days we will know...

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@"Aaralyna.3104" said:[...] Also the fact that certain players are lazy to learn their classes well and learn that there is more than spam all keys when they are off cd and don't look at surroundings and mechanics. Part of this is an issue fromout the playerbase, another part by lacking tutorial on dodge/combofields/where to look out for and how to counter certain things. [...]

Adding to what you said - and I agree with most of it - I'm ashamed of probably being one of those players who only uses available skills. After 1.7k hours playing the game and I still hadn't noticed how that was bad until few weeks ago and just now, I am trying to improve it. I'm still trying to understand why that happened.

  • Not being an English native speaker makes things a little harder, specially when pop-ups messages come and go on screen and I couldn't read them or when some NPC tells what to do. Of course others non-English speakers may argue with that, but every person is different.
  • I've always avoided content groups like dungeons or fractals because I did know I was not good enough and I was afraid of being kicked, pointed, named... At least now I am forcing myself to do, face what may come.
  • But main reason for not being good and not completely understand my class was what you said: "...lacking tutorial on dodge/combofields/where to look out for...". I felt that from very first day ingame, nothing is clear, everything seems to be designed expecting players to found out how to solve it, how mechanic of that instance works or when it will be the right moment to use some unique skill to not be killed with one hit by some enemy.

After some time you find yourself more time at Wiki than playing, trying to read some fractal walk though, or what all those stats names mean and how they are related or what are combo, how to use, when to use. If anything of that is ingame, I missed. Just like enemies. Common answer to "know how to deal with some enemies" is "watch the animation". Ok, that may works with some big enemies, but not all. After sometime doing bounties and you will find enemies that once the combat begins and 15+ players are over it (sparkling and shining) you won't see anything.

I love the game, I don't think its dead or dying. Maybe because I'm casual player but I really would like to have the game helping me do things better.

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@JTGuevara.9018 said:You know, when I see that gw2 has laid off about 1/3 of its workforce

Game started with at most 200 employees, and reached 436 employees total in early 2019 (before the layoffs), then went down to 293 after they laid off 143 employees. Notice that they still have way more employees than they did have on release. They more than doubled their number of employees after Path of Fire and judging by the release pace, half the company wasn't working on Guild Wars 2 anymore but those cancelled unannounced projects. In other words Guild Wars 2 didn't lay off any of their workforce, Arenanet did. There is a huge difference here.

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@"Arden.7480" said:But people need to understand that 30th of August will answer all the questions, and whether we will see an expansion or not... In 15 days we will know...

Actually do not count on anybody saying if we will get a new expansion on the 30th. Even if they did plan an expac after lws5, big chance is they won't even tell us to have a hype starting in a year or so when the lws5 is about to finish. They want to hype lws5 and not "we bring a new expac in future but you have to endure lws5 first".

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People are reading too much into this announcement . I see as advertising for the game at a game con.I seriously don't think we will hear expansion to any of those 45 minutes, if they weren't even planning one a year ago (maybe even 2)I hope they are planning one for the games sake, but as the above poster has said, they aren't going to even going to give a stiff of any plans, look at when they did the Q&A on this forum and how rude people were demanding they answered and had broken promises? Now take that to an expansion.Yeah game destroying stuff.

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@Aaralyna.3104 said:

@"Arden.7480" said:But people need to understand that 30th of August will answer all the questions, and whether we will see an expansion or not... In 15 days we will know...

Actually do not count on anybody saying if we will get a new expansion on the 30th. Even if they did plan an expac after lws5, big chance is they won't even tell us to have a hype starting in a year or so when the lws5 is about to finish. They want to hype lws5 and not "we bring a new expac in future but you have to endure lws5 first".

I personally expect nothing, I only empathize with the others :D

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What's the Future hold for Gw2?Well, when you got sites like Dulfy abandoning & not updating Gw2 section.& Popular twitch streamers leaving left & right the game cuz you can't creat real content.Not much holding up this game at the moment. What makes you think it got a Future?After 6 years, it's obvious the future is here, now!

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Dulfy and Streamers.... Keep in mind people also have real lifes. You cannot expect them to create content 24/7 all the time or set aside real life things that are more important. I read that Dulfy did not abandonned but that she simply was too busy in real life atm. Besides there are plenty of guides around (reddit, wiki,...). As for streamers, people never stick at just 1 game (especially gw2 is good to combine with other games). Why is a streamer not allowed to check out some hype game when all other players can? Most even said they will still play gw2 and make content regarding but not as frequent as before (or not as partner).

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"JTGuevara.9018" said:You know, when I see that gw2 has laid off about 1/3 of its workforce,No,
ArenaNet
laid off an estimated 1/3 of its workforce. Near as we can tell from what little has been mentioned, those resources were allocated towards projects other than GW2.

releases content and updates at a snail's pace,The rate is the same as it's been for years.

gw2 not communicating its direction....They've never been consistent about communicating plans. Sometimes, they gives us a ton of info; most of the time they don't. Lots of companies are like this; a few aren't. It's understandable why companies that share their plans are fan favorites, including ones that produce awesome products (and some that produce less-than-good ones). That doesn't mean that a company
must
appear collaborative to succeed.

maybe...just MAYBE there's room for questions about the state of the game.You began with a statement that the game was in trouble. That's not "asking questions," that's pushing an agenda.

"Don't worry about it! Enjoy the gemstore!"

A very few of the comments are like that. Some of the comments are closer to "what's different this month from 12 months ago or the last 873 times someone has said that the game was dead or dying or in trouble?"

"gw2 is steady chugging along as usual!!"….You say that like it's a bad thing, as if ANet suddenly changed from a company with a clear sense of how to make fun games that were profitable to one that has no clue. Of course, that's a possibility; we just aren't likely to see evidence of that.

But no....I'm just a veteran, what do I know?

It's what you've claimed that people are disagreeing with. Your preferences and your observations are your own. However, that's not the same as objective facts about the state of the game.

Players just come and go right? Yeah...until they don't....Yes, the sun rises and sets until it doesn't, too. That's not a very useful concept, especially if one is cherry picking facts to suit a narrative.

There are plenty of things to criticize about the game and about the company that makes it. The thing is that most of those criticisms are well-established; they aren't new. That doesn't make them invalid, of course; it just means that they are unlikely to be precursors of the End of Days for the game.

I dont agree that the pace has been consistent over years. S4 was noticably slower than se3.

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@Vieux P.1238 said:What's the Future hold for Gw2?Well, when you got sites like Dulfy abandoning & not updating Gw2 section.

She's busy with real life and has said so on multiple occasions. Unless that was a blatant lie it's not because GW2 is dead.

& Popular twitch streamers leaving left & right the game cuz you can't creat real content.

Maybe two? Of a section of twitch that is abysmal to begin with. Not the biggest loss and the content that IS created certainly doesn't have much to do with it. more the stuff that isn't (or fast enough).

Not much holding up this game at the moment. What makes you think it got a Future?

What's holding the game up is that we know it will continue for at least another 1 and a half years /shrug

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@"zealex.9410" said:I dont agree that the pace has been consistent over years. S4 was noticably slower than se3.

Not counting the delay between HoT's launch and LS3.1, there was an average of ~73 days between LS3 episodes, with the longest 84 days. For LS4, the average was 90-94 days, depending on whether we ignore the gap between PoF and LS4.1 (which was 59 days).

That's on average 2.5-3 weeks slower. It's mathematically noticeable, but it's still close to the expected/assumed timeline of 2-3 months.

On the other hand, it ignores the density, size, and quality of the releases. Two LS4 releases included new Mounts, for example. Two included double sets of in-game armor collections. LS4 also included a massive tectonic shift at ANet HQ. It also ignores the other content changes we've gotten in between LS releases, including now annual festivals (FotFW and Dragonbash).

So sure, you'd be technically correct that 90 days is noticeably longer than 73. But it's also accurate to describe the overall pace as consistent, in that it's been, on average, along the expectation we think ANet set for us a while back: new stories every 2-3 months, other changes in between.


I am reminded of something my grandmother said when she was in a nursing facility:

The food here is terrible... and the portions are so small.

On the whole, people who are satisfied with the kind of content aren't going to quibble about the days, while people unhappy with the details are going to also focus on the increased gap between LS episodes.

Regardless the point is that things are substantively different, as the OP claimed. The OP wrote "at a snail's pace," which isn't something we can quantify and prove one way or the other, but it's misleading in that ... at worst, the LS episodes come out more slowly. If 90 days equals "snail's pace," why would 73 days be consider "quick"?

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@Xar.6279 said:It all depends on ArenaNet.

People want to play GW2. And likes this game. It's combat system, etc, etc.But even the biggest fans have their patience limit.

Thats the crux of it, i want gw2 to be popular and successful, i want to see it progress. But in the end its in the devs hands, and ncsoft dont forget. There are modes in this game that are dying they need some changes like yesterday. People will start a mass exodus if you dont put some effort into more than just temp content and the gem store. Im not saying that because i am hating on them, im saying it because i want this game to go forward with a healthy playerbase, with everyone at least somewhat happy in their game mode of choice. I want gw2 to rise to the top, i want that feeling of ooo whats next around the corner they are going to release. And im pretty sure most players want to feel the same. Open world, raids and fracts, pvp , wvw, stories and hearts/quests, i want them all to have engaging and re playable content, that when you log in you are going whoo hoo im gonna do this today!

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:I dont agree that the pace has been consistent over years. S4 was noticably slower than se3.

Not counting the delay between HoT's launch and LS3.1, there was an average of ~73 days between LS3 episodes, with the longest 84 days. For LS4, the average was 90-94 days, depending on whether we ignore the gap between PoF and LS4.1 (which was 59 days).

That's on average 2.5-3 weeks slower. It's mathematically noticeable, but it's still close to the expected/assumed timeline of 2-3 months.

On the other hand, it ignores the density, size, and quality of the releases. Two LS4 releases included new Mounts, for example. Two included double sets of in-game armor collections. LS4 also included a massive tectonic shift at ANet HQ. It also ignores the other content changes we've gotten in between LS releases, including now annual festivals (FotFW and Dragonbash).

So sure, you'd be technically correct that 90 days is noticeably longer than 73. But it's also accurate to describe the overall pace as consistent, in that it's been, on average, along the expectation we think ANet set for us a while back: new stories every 2-3 months, other changes in between.

I am reminded of something my grandmother said when she was in a nursing facility:

The food here is terrible... and the portions are so small.

On the whole, people who are satisfied with the kind of content aren't going to quibble about the days, while people unhappy with the details are going to also focus on the increased gap between LS episodes.

Regardless the point is that things are substantively different, as the OP claimed. The OP wrote "at a snail's pace," which isn't something we can quantify and prove one way or the other, but it's misleading in that ... at worst, the LS episodes come out more slowly. If 90 days equals "snail's pace," why would 73 days be consider "quick"?

We been told episodes are developed in conjunction with one another and usually each episode takes smth like 6 or 9 month? So even if near the end of se4 there were some very big changes the episodes should've already been on development for a while.

Lets not forget se3 came right after of another fairly big shake up at anet with the whole restructuring post hot. On the subject of aditional content outside lw itself, namely the mounts the festivals and the armors se3 had similar projects (namely fractal support compaired to festival support, legendary armor for raids, wvw armor and backpiece) The only part the 2 cant realy compaire were the mounts and thats only because mounts and gliders are treated differently from anet as features.

Just to have it mentioned se3 happened over the course of 12 months while se4 happened over 18.

why would 73 days be consider "quick"?

Personally i dont consider it quick i just consider se4 really slow

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