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in twitch.Why are there few people watching Guild Wars 2?


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I'm just going to repost what I said in the other thread:

To try and answer the question... it has to deal with presentation. It is a strange way of looking at it, but really a videogame is a series of inconveniences that you're meant to deal with. Every enemy is problem that demands a solution, as is every puzzle, every dialogue chain, every platforming section, etc. and so on. When Anet made GW2, they sought to eliminate a lot of those inconveniences that plagued other games. Thing is, all of these little trivial problems are what made people watch.

Take waypoints, for example. From the player's perspective, they're really fast and convenient, and in spite of the costs it is never worth it to just run it. However, from an onlookers perspective, the world map is a confusing system of nodes that you teleport around. Effectively, all environments are one-time experiences that are traversed once for map completion, and then forgotten about. In other games, the map is a set piece you continually interact with. As convenient as it is to just warp wherever you need to go, it is incredibly boring for anyone to watch.

Another example is the loot system. Unlike other games, we don't have super rare, flash, legendary drops that are tied to specific areas. At least, not a lot of them. Now, our generalized loot and skin system is very convenient for playing dress-up and for gearing yourself up cheaply. However, for the onlooker, this just makes everything dull and meaningless. There isn't "that one drop" that you need to get from "that one enemy." There is no status recognition beyond legendary weapons, and all a legendary weapon really means is you grinded and/or bought your way to owning a legendary weapon. A lot of what makes the enemies interesting is the targeted drops, and these interesting enemies make the environment interesting, too. You have to traverse the environment to get to those specific enemies. Even if you get a precursor, all an onlooker will see is the icon in your inventory screen.

This isn't an exhaustive list, nor is it just a few big issues. It is death by 1000 cuts, wherein everything added to make gameplay easier just makes it boring to watch.

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It's because gw2 attracts certain types of personalities. Introverted and non-social. Literally, it took me a year to find friends that break that mold because EVERYONE just wants to stay in their bubbles all the time. It's boring. So you except to find streamers that doesn't have that?

I mean yes, we DID have charismatic streamers but they are leaving. WP is the one that is standing strong while the more entertaining folks are pushing off to entertain elsewhere. It's how it is, but people don't like to think that way and try to push away that reality when it's kind of true. Gw2 is not as social as other MMOs that I have personally have been on.

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The answer in this thread is the same as the answer in the other first page thread (please use the search function to prevent replicated threads).

GW2 is a game designed and marketed towards people who either do not care or do not know what Twitch/streaming is, and therefore those who stream it will not get many viewers which makes streaming it pointless so there are less streamers.

Asking why no one is streaming GW2 is like going to a sports bar and asking why none of the TVs are showing soap operas. It's a different target market.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Lilyanna.9361" said:It's because gw2 attracts certain types of personalities. Introverted and non-social.

That's just false.

Well, if you imagine for a second that many players with 6000h in game have spent at least 1000h jumping between 30 Winterberry bushes, pressing F key...or similar "content gameplay" it's not that hard to imagine their psychological profile and OP's impression. Pretty much majority of "achievements" are directly targeting such... personalities.

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@Derdzvero.7051 said:

@"Lilyanna.9361" said:It's because gw2 attracts certain types of personalities. Introverted and non-social.

That's just false.

Well, if you imagine for a second that many players with 6000h in game have spent at least 1000h jumping between 30 Winterberry bushes, pressing F key...or similar "content gameplay" it's not that hard to imagine their psychological profile and OP's impression. Pretty much majority of "achievements" are directly targeting such... personalities.

Just because there are targets available for solo players doesn't mean the game is for introverted and non-social people. You can join 5 guilds and be in a party/squad 24/7 if you desire to do so. What's good about gw2 is its flexibility and casual approach to the player, the statement that it specifically targets non-social players is straight up false.

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@Goettel.4389 said:Nah, reason is Twitch is a kid thing. GW2 is older folk (no source).

Kinda a bit rude to keep bringing up age with this. I'm an oldie and I watch streams IF THEY INTEREST MEI do watch WP now and again. MT only does raids and i don't care about them. I watch AP on a Tuesday now and again and often after a content drop to see her reaction.Currently all what your precious streamers are doing are hyping up their leaving on one foot and trashing the game on the other. I don't want to sit through 4 people bashing this game for views,looking like butter wouldn't melt.If you don't like it why are you even playing? why not go now?

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@Dami.5046 said:

@Goettel.4389 said:Nah, reason is Twitch is a kid thing. GW2 is older folk (no source).

Kinda a bit rude to keep bringing up age with this. I'm an oldie and I watch streams
IF THEY INTEREST ME
I do watch WP now and again. MT only does raids and i don't care about them. I watch AP on a Tuesday now and again and often after a content drop to see her reaction.Currently all what your precious streamers are doing are hyping up their leaving on one foot and trashing the game on the other. I don't want to sit through 4 people bashing this game for views,looking like butter wouldn't melt.If you don't like it why are you even playing? why not go now?

49 here, no intention to be rude. I just find that nobody I talk to even knows about Twitch (NL is like that), and I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

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@Goettel.4389 said:

@Goettel.4389 said:Nah, reason is Twitch is a kid thing. GW2 is older folk (no source).

Kinda a bit rude to keep bringing up age with this. I'm an oldie and I watch streams
IF THEY INTEREST ME
I do watch WP now and again. MT only does raids and i don't care about them. I watch AP on a Tuesday now and again and often after a content drop to see her reaction.Currently all what your precious streamers are doing are hyping up their leaving on one foot and trashing the game on the other. I don't want to sit through 4 people bashing this game for views,looking like butter wouldn't melt.If you don't like it why are you even playing? why not go now?

49 here, no intention to be rude. I just find that nobody I talk to even knows about Twitch (NL is like that), and I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

Apologizes, my comment wasn't an attack - many people on the first thread were making ageist comments regarding twitch and 'us older folk'I agree with you.

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@AnakinJeakin.1604 said:Because maybe people enjoy playing the game more than watching other people telling them how to play it or enjoy it. Twitch is just making money for people preying on idiots

Right. So your logic is to insult and attack people who were able to make a living out of something they love, are passionate about and enjoy? Not to mention annually contribute to charities?

Kay.

No, I insult people that are gullible enough to support people who do this for a living by watching them play a game they could play themselves. While I do not know for sure, I would be very certain that the ones that do donate are in a minuscule minority

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@Ultramex.1506 said:I feel that GW2 needs a review from big youtuber

It did. TotalBiscuit, Angry Joe, Jesse Cox, several Yogscast channels, Boogie2988, Day9, Cryaotic, Markiplier, the list goes on. Even that [insert derogatory term] PewDiePie got in on the action. Some of them were chased out by community inability to accept (or give) criticism.

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@Trise.2865 said:

@Ultramex.1506 said:I feel that GW2 needs a review from big youtuber

It did. TotalBiscuit, Angry Joe, Jesse Cox, several Yogscast channels, Boogie2988, Day9, Cryaotic, Markiplier, the list goes on. Even that [insert derogatory term] PewDiePie got in on the action. Some of them were chased out by community inability to accept (or give) criticism.

GW2 got more than enough reviews and most of them were positive. Unfortunately all of them were from the release version and during the honeymoon period of the game, so many things changed. The expansions had very few reviews

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@"Opopanax.1803" said:Can't see anything in a wvw or pve meta fight due to insane particle effects...how can you meaningfully watch?

Well that is a problem, but i think its more about playerbase. WoW has a big following for pvp, gw2 has a lot of players that wvw/pvp but there isnt a big call for streamers to promote kind of sad. I like watching these things in my off time .

GW2 WVW vs WoW world pvp. they both are visual clusters lol. Go about 6 min into the wow one and you see what i mean about lag and clutter its the same problem with any mass player event.

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@AnakinJeakin.1604 said:

@AnakinJeakin.1604 said:Because maybe people enjoy playing the game more than watching other people telling them how to play it or enjoy it. Twitch is just making money for people preying on idiots

Right. So your logic is to insult and attack people who were able to make a living out of something they love, are passionate about and enjoy? Not to mention annually contribute to charities?

Kay.

No, I insult people that are gullible enough to support people who do this for a living by watching them play a game they could play themselves. While I do not know for sure, I would be very certain that the ones that do donate are in a minuscule minority

Right.

Even though said charity streams raise hundreds of thousands of dollars, up into the millions of dollars? Last year streamers were able to raise 22 million dollars for charity.

http://collider.com/guardiancon-charity-raises-millions-for-st-jude/

"miniscule minority" Kay.

Also I feel this shouldn't need to be repeated but I guess it needs to be; many people who watch streamers also play the game. In fact they may often play with the streamer, or they watch and play at the same time.

Ignorance isn't an excuse for vitriol.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

I guess there's fundamentally wrong with everyone who watches events like the Olympics then.

Um, no, because not everyone can participate in the olympics. Everyone CAN play gW2.

I know people who will watch videos of games their computer cant run properly. Then there are people for whom playing the game would stretch their physical capabilities, but who enjoy watching the spectacle.

And, often it seems, its not watch instead of play, its watch and play. My phone can handle playing videos and streaming but it cannot run gw2 when I am not at home. I personally dont generally watch others play a game. If I am not at my PC to play I will do something else entirely. However, I can imagine player so engaged with their game of choice that they seek out opportunities to interact with it, even indirectly, when they cannot actually play. I also know for a fact that there are those who will watch a stream, or videos, while actually playing the game.

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@Zuldari.3940 said:

@"Opopanax.1803" said:Can't see anything in a wvw or pve meta fight due to insane particle effects...how can you meaningfully watch?

Well that is a problem, but i think its more about playerbase. WoW has a big following for pvp, gw2 has a lot of players that wvw/pvp but there isnt a big call for streamers to promote kind of sad. I like watching these things in my off time .

GW2 WVW vs WoW world pvp. they both are visual clusters lol. Go about 6 min into the wow one and you see what i mean about lag and clutter its the same problem with any mass player event.

But in wow, the user can turn off particle effects all together. In GW2 you cant. That wow video likely had the user not adjusting their effects. You can eliminate them in wow.

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@Ashen.2907 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

I guess there's fundamentally wrong with everyone who watches events like the Olympics then.

Um, no, because not everyone can participate in the olympics. Everyone CAN play gW2.

I know people who will watch videos of games their computer cant run properly. Then there are people for whom playing the game would stretch their physical capabilities, but who enjoy watching the spectacle.

Right .. so like I have been saying ... if they could choose, they would play. Those people don't have choice in your examples.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

I mean...is it though?

Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

I guess there's fundamentally wrong with everyone who watches events like the Olympics then.

Um, no, because not everyone can participate in the olympics. Everyone CAN play gW2.

I know people who will watch videos of games their computer cant run properly. Then there are people for whom playing the game would stretch their physical capabilities, but who enjoy watching the spectacle.

Right .. so like I have been saying ... if they could choose, they would play. Those people don't have choice in your examples.

I merely pointed out that your justification for discounting the sporting comparison, that everyone can play gw2, is incorrect. Certainly more people can play gw2 than can compete in the olympics though.

And when they have a choice, as pointed out elsewhere in my post, they can watch and play.

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@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@AnakinJeakin.1604 said:Because maybe people enjoy playing the game more than watching other people telling them how to play it or enjoy it. Twitch is just making money for people preying on idiots

Right. So your logic is to insult and attack people who were able to make a living out of something they love, are passionate about and enjoy? Not to mention annually contribute to charities?

Kay.

No, I insult people that are gullible enough to support people who do this for a living by watching them play a game they could play themselves. While I do not know for sure, I would be very certain that the ones that do donate are in a minuscule minority

Right.

Even though said charity streams raise hundreds of thousands of dollars, up into the millions of dollars? Last year streamers were able to raise 22 million dollars for charity.

"miniscule minority" Kay.

Also I feel this shouldn't need to be repeated but I guess it needs to be; many people who
watch
streamers
also
play the game. In fact they may often play
with
the streamer, or they watch
and
play at the same time.

Ignorance isn't an excuse for vitriol.

It seems the charity events mentioned in the article are sponsored by larger organizations, rather than by individuals and the proceed do go for a good cause and I applaud those organizations and would support such events. Needless to say, though, I believe that GW2 is a game that people who play it, rather enjoy actually playing the game rather than watching someone else play it, which is the main basis for this topic.The "vitriol" aforementioned was an opinion only and should not have been perceived for as much as it was. For anyone's feelings I stepped on, you have my apologies.

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@AnakinJeakin.1604 said:

@AnakinJeakin.1604 said:Because maybe people enjoy playing the game more than watching other people telling them how to play it or enjoy it. Twitch is just making money for people preying on idiots

Right. So your logic is to insult and attack people who were able to make a living out of something they love, are passionate about and enjoy? Not to mention annually contribute to charities?

Kay.

No, I insult people that are gullible enough to support people who do this for a living by watching them play a game they could play themselves. While I do not know for sure, I would be very certain that the ones that do donate are in a minuscule minority

Right.

Even though said charity streams raise hundreds of thousands of dollars, up into the millions of dollars? Last year streamers were able to raise 22 million dollars for charity.

"miniscule minority" Kay.

Also I feel this shouldn't need to be repeated but I guess it needs to be; many people who
watch
streamers
also
play the game. In fact they may often play
with
the streamer, or they watch
and
play at the same time.

Ignorance isn't an excuse for vitriol.

It seems the charity events mentioned in the article are sponsored by larger organizations, rather than by individuals and the proceed do go for a good cause and I applaud those organizations and would support such events. Needless to say, though, I believe that GW2 is a game that people who play it, rather enjoy actually playing the game rather than watching someone else play it, which is the main basis for this topic.The "vitriol" aforementioned was an opinion only and should not have been perceived for as much as it was. For anyone's feelings I stepped on, you have my apologies.

Right, and the point of view of "People would rather play the game than watch it" does keep popping up. However it has been repeatedly clashed against another perspective; that people are entirely capable of, and do, watch and play at the same time. Or in other circumstances they may be at work (desk job) or on a break from work, or on a train, in a car, laying in bed about to go to sleep, etc and are watching. Some people have streams on in the background, or just on another screen and watch that way while they play video games.

Thats why I really don't view the "they would rather play than watch" as a valid argument as it directly implies that a person needs to choose to do one or the other, as if they are mutually exclusive and can't be done at the same time which is ultimately false.

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