'Rebirth' of Jormag's grand champions?

[crepuscular.9047]

With the community on the hype train for LW S5 to be set in Far Shiverpeaks, and if it turns out to be true, what you guys think the chance for Anet to make Jormag to bring back his grand champions he ever had; i know so far there is no concrete evidence of Jormag had absorbed part of Zhaitan's power, but that was the case with Primordus until we saw the Death-Touched Destroyer at Ember Bay, that indicated that Primordus may have absorbed Zhaitan's magic

On the list include:

• Dragonspawn
• Drakkar
• Frostfang
• Svanir

The whisperer of the whispers in the wind with the new Mysterious norn NPCs could be Dragonspawn or Svanir

I think any old GW1 players like me would be super excited to see these grand champions back in GW2, totally would love a Tequatl Rising style event seeing Drakkar raising from his icy lake grave

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

As far as we know, Drakkar hasn't died. The Dragonspawn didn't leave a corpse behind, so can't really reanimate that, and the same could be said for Svanir.

As for Jormag getting Zhaitan's power, it seems unlikely. In Season 3, it's established that distance plays a good factor into whether or not an Elder Dragon gets a dead ED's magic, which is why Jormag only had the one new dragon minion. Primordus only got Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic because it moved, and before moving it was inbetween Jormag and both Zhaitan and Mordremoth, so on top of distance, Primordus likely took the majority of magic that was heading towards Jormag before moving.

To delve into deeper theorycrafting, I think Kralkatorrik got the lion's share of Zhaitan's death spectrum (and Mordremoth's mind spectrum) while Primordus took Shadow and Plant. I suspect such because Kralkatorrik doesn't really utilize any shadow abilities, never utilized any plant abilities, but did utilize death and mind stuff; meanwhile, Primordus never showcased using mind but did showcase plant, and while we do have the "death-touched" destroyers, they're wrapped in shadows and there's nothing corpsey about any of the S3 destroyers.

So unless Aurene allowed the magic Kralkatorrik got from Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and Balthazar to flow into the world, seeing as she took all of Kralkatorrik's magic, I think Jormag will be largely "square one" in regards to magical abilities - just having his own ice and .

(Which brings up another point: what was Kralkatorrik's second domain? Did they just decide to forget all about that, as they very clearly made that up to explain Mordremoth's mental fuckery with sylvari, and now that it's done they're pretending they never bullshitted Zhaitan's second domain into existence?)

That said, Drakkar should show up again. No one really cares about Frostfang given it's a very minor piece of lore. I would find it hard to believe Svanir's return, but we could easily have a new "nornbear" show up in a Jormag arc (and a "nornraven" a "nornwolf" and "nornleopard" please!).

[Tyson.5160]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:As far as we know, Drakkar hasn't died. The Dragonspawn didn't leave a corpse behind, so can't really reanimate that, and the same could be said for Svanir.

As for Jormag getting Zhaitan's power, it seems unlikely. In Season 3, it's established that distance plays a good factor into whether or not an Elder Dragon gets a dead ED's magic, which is why Jormag only had the one new dragon minion. Primordus only got Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic because it moved, and before moving it was inbetween Jormag and both Zhaitan and Mordremoth, so on top of distance, Primordus likely took the majority of magic that was heading towards Jormag before moving.

To delve into deeper theorycrafting, I think Kralkatorrik got the lion's share of Zhaitan's death spectrum (and Mordremoth's mind spectrum) while Primordus took Shadow and Plant. I suspect such because Kralkatorrik doesn't really utilize any shadow abilities, never utilized any plant abilities, but did utilize death and mind stuff; meanwhile, Primordus never showcased using mind but did showcase plant, and while we do have the "death-touched" destroyers, they're wrapped in shadows and there's nothing corpsey about any of the S3 destroyers.

So unless Aurene allowed the magic Kralkatorrik got from Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and Balthazar to flow into the world, seeing as she took all of Kralkatorrik's magic, I think Jormag will be largely "square one" in regards to magical abilities - just having his own ice and .

(Which brings up another point: what was Kralkatorrik's second domain? Did they just decide to forget all about that, as they very clearly made that up to explain Mordremoth's mental fuckery with sylvari, and now that it's done they're pretending they never bullshitted Zhaitan's second domain into existence?)

That said, Drakkar should show up again. No one really cares about Frostfang given it's a very minor piece of lore. I would find it hard to believe Svanir's return, but we could easily have a new "nornbear" show up in a Jormag arc (and a "nornraven" a "nornwolf" and "nornleopard" please!).

I kinda wonder about the second spheres of influence sometimes. It’s almost like it would have made things easier to just have Mordremoth be just plant and jungle, no need for mind sphere and just have Sylvari go through these mental battles physically by being controlled as plant beings.

[brenda.9723]

@Tyson.5160 That would make so much sense :open_mouth:. I think that most mind controlled creatures were indeed plants.

And the end would be better. Instead of fighting the dragon of mind in his mind (in which he is supposed to be super strong, but he is not??), we fight him in his dream. Then the creation of the pale tree could have been the discovery of the weapon that could ultimately destory mordy.

[brenda.9723]

What if jormag brings back Jora from the dead, and tries to control her XD? I think that would be possible if jormag has zhaitans magic, right?

[Yannir.4132]

But wait, Jormag did get some magic from Mordy and Zhaitan.We fight this guy: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Champion_Unstable_Abomination in "A Crack in the Ice" as well as the maggots surrounding him.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Tyson.5160" said:I kinda wonder about the second spheres of influence sometimes. It’s almost like it would have made things easier to just have Mordremoth be just plant and jungle, no need for mind sphere and just have Sylvari go through these mental battles physically by being controlled as plant beings.

Yup. Been saying that since HoT came out. Hell, didn't even need the contradictory "sylvari are dragon minions" thing either that drove a lot of hardcore fans away.

@"Yannir.4132" said:But wait, Jormag did get some magic from Mordy and Zhaitan.We fight this guy: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Champion_Unstable_Abomination in "A Crack in the Ice" as well as the maggots surrounding him.

Yes, but that was the sole example despite being close to Jormag (Jormag is stated in that episode to be in the frozen tundra just beyond Bitterfrost Frontier; e.g., one or two maps away). The reason why there's not dozens / hundreds of such minions like Kralkatorrik and Primordus is due to Jormag not getting very much of the dead ED's magic due to distance.

[Tarlonniel.6534]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Hell, didn't even need the contradictory "sylvari are dragon minions" thing either that drove a lot of hardcore fans away.

Contradictory? Can you explain why? I hadn't heard this criticism before.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Tarlonniel.6534 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Hell, didn't even need the contradictory "sylvari are dragon minions" thing either that drove a lot of hardcore fans away.

Contradictory? Can you explain why? I hadn't heard this criticism before.

Sylvari lack a number of things that are universal among dragon minions, and have a number of things that dragon minions lack.

Key ones being the "safer" absorption of magic, and a hive mind (no, the Dream is not a hive mind, and not all sylvari are connected to the Dream). These two things are key staples of what a dragon minion is (at the time, so was the lack of free will, which sylvari have and it was even stressed, but that's more a staple of evil Elder Dragons' minions as shown by Caithe and Aurene) yet sylvari lack them completely.

And of course, their "immunity" to dragon corruption is one hell of a conflict where Arenanet devs are constantly going back and forth so much that it's clear they don't have an internal lore bible anymore, even for the simple and important things. The entire "sylvari are immune because they're dragon minions" actually began as players using a theory of them being dragon minions, to explain a theory of why they're immune. The original theory of them being dragon minions was counter to multiple aspects and supported almost unanimously by Glint betraying Kralkatorrik, except it didn't go away when we learned that Glint had to be purified and given free will via magical ritual before she could betray Kralkatorrik - something that still has no mention or implication of in lore for sylvari (but must have happened since they've been confirmed dragon minions). In Season 2 and in HoT promotions (after the reveal) it was established that - except for Mordremoth - sylvari immunity came from the Pale Tree's protection and connection to them (aka the Dream of Dreams) which the first sylvari who fell to Mordremoth forsook by becoming Soundless, and in the core game we have Subject Alpha (but people always explained it away as "it's scientists in a lab; you wouldn't get cloning in the natural world" while ignoring the fact that Inquest "science" hadn't evolved beyond "expose people to corrupting dragon energy" in that dungeon); yet in Season 4 we have Taimi proclaiming the old never-proven fan theory of "sylvari are immune because dragon minions" when Caithe got branded.

There are minor contradictory issues too, all in all brought about by the fact that ArenaNet tried too hard to try to dissuade the notion that "sylvari=dragon minions". There's even a back and forth - similar to the immunity thing - about the Nightmare being Mordremoth's influence on the Dream or not.