Should there be a counter to Invulnerability?

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Should there be a counter to Invulnerability for more healthy plays?Currently almost every defense has a counter.

• Blocks = Unblockables
• Evades = Non-evadable skills
• Invis = Reveals
• Barriers = More DPS
• Immune Physical = Condi
• Immune Condi = Physical
• Boons = Corruption/Strip
• Heal = Poison
• Teleports/Mobility = Range/blinks

But Invulnerability = total immunity.Irregardless of numbers, type, damage etc. they take zero damage.

Should there be a counter introduced irregardless of its...name?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Everything should have a counter other than simply not engaging as that 8s a counter to everything and anything lol

[Zenix.6198]

Overall I think it's fine to have "oh shit"-invuln-buttons in the game.What I don't like about some of them, is how they can be used to go full berserk mode while just using said invuln to not worry about counterpressure.

Thus, at least in my opinion, Invulns like Renewed Focus or Elixir S are good implementations of invulnerability, while skills like Obsidian Flesh, Distortion or Endure Pain (even tho the last one is debatable giving its short duration and only being "semi"- invuln) are way more obnoxious to fight against.

[Tayga.3192]

Aren't there only five skills that grant invulnerable?Mist FormObsidian FleshElixir SRenewed FocusDistortion

[Mbelch.9028]

@"Tayga.3192" said:Aren't there only five skills that grant invulnerable?Mist FormObsidian FleshElixir SRenewed FocusDistortion

There might be one or two others (I don't wanna say that's an exhaustive list) but why I respond to this is to agree and say: For all other forms of "invuln" have some counter. Whether it's by engineer's shield block & knock, shocking aura, necromancer marks, corruptions, ect.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Invul should have a counter to itself baked in, like not being able to cast additional skills or becoming exhausted after using it for a specific amount of time.The pool of invuls across classes is too small to introduce invulnerability counters that people will run unless theyre trying to [insert class here] bust.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if you can get hit thru invuln, then its not invuln.

invulnerable [ in-vuhl-ner-uh-buh l ]adjectiveincapable of being wounded, hurt, or damaged.proof against or immune to attack:A strong navy made Great Britain invulnerable.not open to denial or disproof:an invulnerable argument.

[alain.1659]

Classes that have invulnerability have valid reasons for that. If you wanna remove invul then you should also fix those reasons.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:Invul should have a counter to itself baked in, like not being able to cast additional skills or becoming exhausted after using it for a specific amount of time.The pool of invuls across classes is too small to introduce invulnerability counters that people will run unless theyre trying to [insert class here] bust.

This.

Invuln should be a temporary reprieve, but it should limit what you can do heavily. Elixir S and Renewed Focus are examples of this.

Or it should only be partial invuln, IE endure pain and signet of stone.

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

Invulnerability should never exist in any game with competitive pvp. It should never have been implemented in this game in the first place.

[Zephoid.4263]

Heres the problem: While counters exist for evade and block, they aren't viable except when the skill is already powerful. You don't take anything that gives unblockable if it isn't for another viable aspect. No one takes the reaper shout that makes your attacks unblockable. All the viable counters to evade are area effect abilities and you don't take them except for their innate power. Usually they are tacked on to weapons or are defensive effects like retal.

Block and evade aren't ubiquitous enough to try to create builds that are good against them. They are tacked on to abilities already. So effectively they are the same as invulnerable except vs a tiny subset of weapon skills. Vs power, invulnerable is no more problematic than long durations of either other effect.

The problem comes with the change that invuln now prevents condi ticks. That made invuln skills such an absurd level above any other damage reduction effect that its not even comparable. Imo, revert that change. Distort or Elixer S should not make you immune to condi ticks. Both were already top teir damage mitigation skills, why were they buffed?

[blazefm.1693]

Invul is ok, but it should be used in defensive scenarios and should make you take a defensive stance making you less effective in attack

[Curennos.9307]

I would rather they change skills that give invuln to have a shorter duration, then a lingering aftereffect that gives some sort of damage reduction bonus - maybe barrier?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I love how everyone rally's on about op skills and anets poor balancing yet are most in agreement that their invulnerability skill with no counter is completely fine lmaoI imagine this surprises no one.

[Tayga.3192]

Invulnerable prevents capturing points.

That's a fair drawback tbh.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I love how everyone rally's on about op skills and anets poor balancing yet are most in agreement that their invulnerability skill with no counter is completely fine lmaoI imagine this surprises no one.

With invuln skills such as Elixir S or Renewed Focus, the counter is that neither side is able to do anything. They're just stalling.

My problem with invulns are ones such as Obsidian Flesh, distortion, or the berserker stance/endure pain wombo combo. These allow you to attack/perform actions while invuln, which is supremely irritating. At least with the warrior wombo combo, it takes multiple utility slots to do.

[praqtos.9035]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I love how everyone rally's on about op skills and anets poor balancing yet are most in agreement that their invulnerability skill with no counter is completely fine lmaoI imagine this surprises no one.

With invuln skills such as Elixir S or Renewed Focus, the counter is that neither side is able to do anything. They're just stalling.

My problem with invulns are ones such as Obsidian Flesh, distortion, or the berserker stance/endure pain wombo combo. These allow you to attack/perform actions while invuln, which is supremely irritating. At least with the warrior wombo combo, it takes multiple utility slots to do.Renewed focus cant stomp/revive people, elixir S can(comes with a busted stealth skill on toolbelt). Mad about distortion that consume clones to extend duration or elementalist that need to be in earth as second element (assuming its weaver)? I find that very funny

[Vagrant.7206]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I love how everyone rally's on about op skills and anets poor balancing yet are most in agreement that their invulnerability skill with no counter is completely fine lmaoI imagine this surprises no one.

With invuln skills such as Elixir S or Renewed Focus, the counter is that neither side is able to do anything. They're just stalling.

My problem with invulns are ones such as Obsidian Flesh, distortion, or the berserker stance/endure pain wombo combo. These allow you to attack/perform actions while invuln, which is supremely irritating. At least with the warrior wombo combo, it takes multiple utility slots to do.Renewed focus cant stomp/revive people, elixir S can(comes with a busted stealth skill on toolbelt). Mad about distortion that consume clones to extend duration or elementalist that need to be in earth as second element (assuming its weaver)? I find that very funny

Distortion can stomp as well (free of any utility slot for mesmer), not sure why your criticism doesn't extend there either.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:Invulnerability should never exist in any game with competitive pvp. It should never have been implemented in this game in the first place.

why?

[Swagg.9236]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:Invulnerability should never exist in any game with competitive pvp. It should never have been implemented in this game in the first place.

why?

Invulnerability can be balanced, but instantaneous, on-demand, no-cost invulnerability just turns a game into cooldown whack-a-mole rather than two players attempting to truly best each other with strategy or timing. GW2 uses the latter profusely which is why the game is a joke.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Swagg.9236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:Invulnerability should never exist in any game with competitive pvp. It should never have been implemented in this game in the first place.

why?

Invulnerability

can

be balanced, but on-demand, no-resource invulnerability just turns a game into cooldown whack-a-mole rather than two players attempting to truly best each other with strategy or timing. GW2 is the latter, and it's everywhere, which is why the game is a joke.

i dont think its invulnerability specifically, but its combination with everything else.when i duel an ely on node and he just reflects for several secounds, then blocks, then evades, then he cleanses, then invul and back to blocks and reflects and I just leave the node to go have fun somewhere else. Same with almost all the classes, fight a warrior on node, he will try to kill you in 1s if he fails he will block/dodge/cleanse for 30s then hide behind a rock with SkIlLfUlL kItE then back to try the same thing.

[Tycura.1982]

@Tayga.3192 said:Aren't there only five skills that grant invulnerable?Mist FormObsidian FleshElixir SRenewed FocusDistortion

3/5 of those you can't attack from either.

[Yannir.4132]

@Tayga.3192 said:Aren't there only five skills that grant invulnerable?Mist FormObsidian FleshElixir SRenewed FocusDistortion

There's one more, it's on ele as well and it's called Fortify.The reason you don't see it used is it's in Conjure Earth Shield.

[thundermarch.5643]

waiting that the skill is off is a good counter to Invulnerability ...

[MyPuppy.8970]

To be fair, ele is the squishiest class, and obsidian flesh is on a weapon that has nearly 0 damage and healing. It can be annoying to waste your burst on it, but you can also turn those 3s of defensive posture to your avantage. Rare are those who use it offensively.